Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

Right to Repair article https://www.wired.com/story/right-to-repair-tenants-on-our-own-devices/ On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 18:57, James Knott via talk wrote: > I guess they also have to protect experienced repair techs from hurting > themselves. =-O > > On 05/03/2019 03:19 PM, Ansar Mohammed via

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

I guess they also have to protect experienced repair techs from hurting themselves.  =-O On 05/03/2019 03:19 PM, Ansar Mohammed via talk wrote: > Officially dead after Industry groups including Apple lobbied saying > that consumers can hurt themselves doing repairs. > >

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

Officially dead after Industry groups including Apple lobbied saying that consumers can hurt themselves doing repairs.

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

I drilled out the rivets. Non-replaceable fuse was good, but the on-off timer switch was flakey, and probably not replaceable. I just scrapped a $250 convection oven due to an on-off switch. I am sad. On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 11:31, mwilson--- via talk wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 9:59 AM

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

> On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 9:59 AM Don Tai via talk wrote: >> >> A seemingly brand new small convection oven, Delonghi EO1270, made in >> China, came my way. Pristine clean and obviously unused, but did not [ ... ] > I would suggest that pop rivets are quite cheap and I'd doubt you > actually

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 9:59 AM Don Tai via talk wrote: > > A seemingly brand new small convection oven, Delonghi EO1270, made in China, > came my way. Pristine clean and obviously unused, but did not work. > https://www.amazon.ca/DeLonghi-EO1270-6-Slice-Convection-Toaster/dp/B003ZDNKV0 > > I

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

t; via talk > > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2019 8:51 AM > > To: talk@gtalug.org > > Cc: Stewart C. Russell > > Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair" > > > > On 2019-03-05 10:04 p.m., Howard Gibson via talk wrote: > > > > &

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

C. Russell > Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair" > > On 2019-03-05 10:04 p.m., Howard Gibson via talk wrote: > > > > One of the basic rules of Design For Manufacture and Assembly is that > > you should not use screws. The preferred w

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

he two-dollar rocker switch. Paul > -Original Message- > From: talk On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen via talk > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2019 12:24 PM > To: Don Tai via talk > Cc: Lennart Sorensen ; D. Hugh Redelmeier > > Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Ri

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

lug.org > Cc: Alvin Starr > Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair" > > A while back I took my ASUS phone to ASUS to see about repair. > > Repairing the phone was going to cost me about 2/3 the cost of a new ASUS > phone. > > Not like the repai

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 12:12 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk, wrote: > | From: Don Tai via talk > | > | A different view from the fashion industry. Instead of making more throw > | away products, make less but better quality products. It seems very old > | school, and much less wasteful. Not

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

| From: Don Tai via talk | | A different view from the fashion industry. Instead of making more throw | away products, make less but better quality products. It seems very old | school, and much less wasteful. Not quite the right to repair, but along | the same philosophical line. | |

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

A different view from the fashion industry. Instead of making more throw away products, make less but better quality products. It seems very old school, and much less wasteful. Not quite the right to repair, but along the same philosophical line.

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

| From: James Knott via talk | My notebook is a Lenovo ThinkPad E520, which I bought 7.5 years ago.  | It's still going strong, though I put in a larger hard drive.  I've had | a thing for ThinkPads ever since I worked at IBM in the late 90s and | most of my work was on them. I like ThinkPads.

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On 2019-03-08 12:36 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: > My current main notebook is just over 5 years old and still great. I > haven't had to repair it -- thank goodness, since it is an > Ultrabook(TM). This is partly because, knowing that upgrades would be > very hard, I pushed all the

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

| From: James Knott via talk | That's a big problem these days, people put price ahead of value.  | There's an old saying, "You only get what you pay for".  With many | things, the "savings" are  less than the added cost or lost value. It depends. I often buy cheap-ish phones and computers.

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On 2019-03-08 08:30 AM, Don Tai via talk wrote: > You buy cheaply and get cheap. That's a big problem these days, people put price ahead of value.  There's an old saying, "You only get what you pay for".  With many things, the "savings" are  less than the added cost or lost value. --- Talk

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

Beyond phones and tech is the physical world of appliances, toys, clothing, shoes and others. While quality has certainly gone down in almost all categories, they remain largely repairable. Most things still use screws and not glue. Old appliances are much better made than new ones. Most plans are

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Thu, 7 Mar 2019 08:50:35 -0500 "Stewart C. Russell via talk" wrote: > Right to Repair is important. I'm slightly disappointed by the general > reaction on this list. We'll spent lifetimes fiddling with software > configs to keep it running against all odds, but hardware gets short > shrift. I

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

Oh. /gary On 19-03-07 06:10 PM, David Mason via talk wrote: No, he dropped out of Reed college - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs But he was certainly not an engineer (to his credit). ../Dave On Mar 7, 2019, 5:15 PM -0500, James Knott via talk , wrote: On 03/07/2019 01:20 PM, Gary

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

No, he dropped out of Reed college - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs But he was certainly not an engineer (to his credit). ../Dave On Mar 7, 2019, 5:15 PM -0500, James Knott via talk , wrote: > On 03/07/2019 01:20 PM, Gary via talk wrote: > > Incidentally, some MBA's such as Steve Jobs,

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On 03/07/2019 01:20 PM, Gary via talk wrote: > Incidentally, some MBA's such as Steve Jobs, do provide real value, > instead of relying on marketing hype, but sadly, in this age, many do not. Jobs was a MBA? --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Thu., Mar. 7, 2019, 12:24 Ansar Mohammed via talk, wrote: > > Please don't confuse this issue with the maker community or "tinkerers". > This is about empowering 3rd party repair of devices so that manufacturers > don't continue to gouge you for basic repairs. > I understand this, but the

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

If you build a desktop and populate it with parts that you choose then you have a big advantage as you can replace parts willy nilly, if they break down. However, if, instead, you buy a laptop then you're at the mercy of the manufacturer. Incidentally, some MBA's such as Steve Jobs, do

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

If you build a desktop and populate it with parts that you choose then you have a big advantage as you can replace parts willy nilly, if they break down. However, if, instead, you buy a laptop then you're at the mercy of the manufacturer. Incidentally, some MBA's such as Steve Jobs, do

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

An iPad battery service from Apple is $129 + taxes. When you walk in they will immediately try to up-sell you to a new iPad. The mall around the corner from my house has a store that will replace the battery for around $50. Please don't confuse this issue with the maker community or "tinkerers".

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

Its planned obsolescence. At one time many companies were run by engineers; sadly, now the MBA's are in charge so "the art of the scam" takes centre stage, which means that, rather than providing value, it is better to fool people into paying up for something that is of less value than is

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

It is not advantageous for hardware companies to make devices serviceable. A device that is not serviceable can be designed to be more cheaply manufactured. Consumers, apart from the geek crowd, don't seem to care about repairability when they flip their devices every 2-3 years. Batteries are also

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Thu, 7 Mar 2019 at 08:50, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote: > On 2019-03-05 10:04 p.m., Howard Gibson via talk wrote: > > > > One of the basic rules of Design For Manufacture and Assembly is that > > you should not use screws. The preferred way is for everything to > > snap together. > >

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Tue, Mar 05, 2019 at 10:04:58PM -0500, Howard Gibson via talk wrote: > On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 14:13:58 -0500 > Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote: > > Way too many phones are glued together instead of using screws these days. > > Incredibly annoying given often you can buy a new screen or battery for

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 14:13:58 -0500 Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote: > Way too many phones are glued together instead of using screws these days. > Incredibly annoying given often you can buy a new screen or battery for > a decent price, but the work to actually replace it is insane. Lennart,

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On 03/05/2019 12:23 PM, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote: > On Mon, Mar 04, 2019 at 07:16:52PM -0500, Don Tai via talk wrote: >> who repairs anything these days? I don't know anyone else, besides myself >> that is curious enough to even open the case. Or use a multimeter. Or >> sewing machine.

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Tue, Mar 05, 2019 at 01:10:30PM -0500, Alvin Starr via talk wrote: > A while back I took my ASUS phone to ASUS to see about repair. > > Repairing the phone was going to cost me about 2/3 the cost of a new ASUS > phone. Way too many phones are glued together instead of using screws these days.

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

That's another thing that right to repair advocates are talking about. Devices need to be designed to be repairable, which would make them a bit bigger and a bit more expensive and this is the hardest part of right to repair advocacy --  where government should force the corporations to make

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

A while back I took my ASUS phone to ASUS to see about repair. Repairing the phone was going to cost me about 2/3 the cost of a new ASUS phone. Not like the repair of a 20,000 car where the repair cost runs from a few hundred to a few thousand. I think the right of repair is a good idea

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Mon, Mar 04, 2019 at 07:16:52PM -0500, Don Tai via talk wrote: > who repairs anything these days? I don't know anyone else, besides myself > that is curious enough to even open the case. Or use a multimeter. Or > sewing machine. Repair is a fringe, hippie thing now. Is that because no one

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, 7:17 PM Don Tai via talk wrote: > who repairs anything these days? > "Right to repair" is also (or perhaps, more) targeted towards 3rd party repair shops, allowing them access to the parts, tools and documents required to fix your device, giving you the ability to not have

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

IMHO, this is a very important issue that the entire community needs to stand behind. Please have a look at the CBC documentary to get an idea of what is at stake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FImwMpA9ENg On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 7:29 PM Mauro Souza via talk wrote: > Not you, not me, but

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

Not you, not me, but people do. Like I never ever wrote a kernel module, but people did and this very list is thankful for all that people. John Deere and its customers are on a war, because they buy the gigantic machines and have to pay a fortune to JD send a technician, plug in a laptop, and go

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

who repairs anything these days? I don't know anyone else, besides myself that is curious enough to even open the case. Or use a multimeter. Or sewing machine. Repair is a fringe, hippie thing now. On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 at 16:59, o1bigtenor via talk wrote: > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 2:27 PM D. Hugh

Re: [GTALUG] Ontario Bill 72: "Right to Repair"

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 2:27 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: > > This is a private member's bill so it is unlikely to pass. > > > >