Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-02 06:59 PM, Scott Allen via talk wrote:

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:

And this, reported today:


And this:




Skype is making Meetings available:
https://www.techradar.com/news/skype-introduces-video-meetings-with-no-sign-up-needed-for-those-wanting-a-zoom-alternative
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-03 12:21 PM, Christopher Browne via talk wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:00, Scott Allen via talk > wrote:


On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
> And this, reported today:
>


And this:




Bruce Schneier has collected together a bunch of the relevant Zoom issues.
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/04/security_and_pr_1.html

It all suggests to me that we shouldn't consider it as more than a 
temporary stopgap measure.


Our security concerns aren't necessarily the same as others' concerns:
- Our meetings are comparatively public matters; we don't especially 
mind if more people listen in
- The special concern I'd have is if joining a Zoom meeting exposed 
members' personal information; we should certainly be wary of that
- One of the protections is somewhat troublesome to apply to us; we 
will be a bit more vulnerable than average to "Zoom bombing" because 
we have a need to publish the addressing information somewhat publicly


Then there's this:
https://boingboing.net/2020/04/03/zoom-transmits-your-info-throu.html



And I'd think that individuals should consider things like the 
following...
- Run the web interface atop a separate web browser from your 'usual' 
activity so that it doesn't have as much to collect data from (I keep 
a Chromium around for that sort of thing).


What about private browsers?

- Various considerations are mentioned here: 



It's actually a mighty useful thing to arrive at a set of protective 
measures on this, as there are a lot of organizations using Zoom, and 
hence some value if we have a sufficiently terse set of measures that 
might be useful to others.

--
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"


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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 01:35:35PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
> If anyone wants to play with it and put some load on it, feel free to
> poke at my jitsi install:
> 
> https://jitsi.cmacleod.ca/GTALUG
> 
> Works with browser only (no plugin) and I tried with "jitsi meet" client
> from play store on my phone.
> 
> And no I don't have a domain setup, but my wife does, so that's where
> I put it.

Installing it is pretty simple.  I just setup a DNS name to use pointing
at my machine, setup the firewall to forward udp port 1-11000
(probably more than I need), I already had 80 and 443 forwarded to
the webserver.

Then I acquired let's encrypt certificates for the hostname.

Then I followed
https://jitsi.org/downloads/ubuntu-debian-installations-instructions/
and told it I had certificates already and pointed it at them.

After that everything just worked.

That was my second try.  The first one I made a typo and it took some
work to wipe everything out to try again since I couldn't figure out
how to fix it easily.  Total probably took 30 minutes.

If you want SIP bridge, you will have to add a few extra packages and
configure whatever it needs.  I didn't try.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 12:48:35PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> But wait, there's more!
> 
> The linkedin mining is a concern.  It means that individuals should
> create a throw-away email account to then create a zoom account.
> Don't use your real email account.
> 
> In what other ways do they abuse your email account?
> 
> The one time I've used zoom (for a talk by Myles) I used a chromebook
> that hadn't otherwise been used for years.  I thought I was safe.  But
> no, I used my main email account to create a Zoom account.
> 
> So: Zoom has so many and so varied a set of problems that I'm now quite 
> unhappy with it.
> 
> It's a great argument for free/libre software.
> 
> 
> 
> I've also used Cisco's webex once.  Documented Linux support has
> severe bitrot.  Its Linux app is 32-bit only.  Its browser support
> requires Java of some particular type.  It seems to require obsolete
> versions of CentOS (6, if I remember correctly) or Ubuntu (16.04, if I
> remember correctly).  Cisco has signalled several ways over a couple of 
> decades that it hates Linux (and the GPL in general).
> 
> I ended up using Windows.  And even that was bad: the mic didn't work
> in Windows, even thought it did in Linux.  So I had to switch to a
> different Windows notebook in the middle of a very expensive meeting.
> Even with the new computer, connectivity dropped out a few times.

If anyone wants to play with it and put some load on it, feel free to
poke at my jitsi install:

https://jitsi.cmacleod.ca/GTALUG

Works with browser only (no plugin) and I tried with "jitsi meet" client
from play store on my phone.

And no I don't have a domain setup, but my wife does, so that's where
I put it.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Christopher Browne via talk 

| On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:00, Scott Allen via talk  wrote:

| > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
| >  wrote:
| > > And this, reported today:
| > > 

| It all suggests to me that we shouldn't consider it as more than a
| temporary stopgap measure.
| 

| And I'd think that individuals should consider things like the following...

But wait, there's more!

The linkedin mining is a concern.  It means that individuals should
create a throw-away email account to then create a zoom account.
Don't use your real email account.

In what other ways do they abuse your email account?

The one time I've used zoom (for a talk by Myles) I used a chromebook
that hadn't otherwise been used for years.  I thought I was safe.  But
no, I used my main email account to create a Zoom account.

So: Zoom has so many and so varied a set of problems that I'm now quite 
unhappy with it.

It's a great argument for free/libre software.



I've also used Cisco's webex once.  Documented Linux support has
severe bitrot.  Its Linux app is 32-bit only.  Its browser support
requires Java of some particular type.  It seems to require obsolete
versions of CentOS (6, if I remember correctly) or Ubuntu (16.04, if I
remember correctly).  Cisco has signalled several ways over a couple of 
decades that it hates Linux (and the GPL in general).

I ended up using Windows.  And even that was bad: the mic didn't work
in Windows, even thought it did in Linux.  So I had to switch to a
different Windows notebook in the middle of a very expensive meeting.
Even with the new computer, connectivity dropped out a few times.
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[Christopher Browne via talk]

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:00, Scott Allen via talk  wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
>  wrote:
> > And this, reported today:
> > 
>
> And this:
> <
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spacex-zoom-video-commn/elon-musks-spacex-bans-zoom-over-privacy-concerns-memo-idUSKBN21J71H
> >
>

Bruce Schneier has collected together a bunch of the relevant Zoom issues.
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/04/security_and_pr_1.html

It all suggests to me that we shouldn't consider it as more than a
temporary stopgap measure.

Our security concerns aren't necessarily the same as others' concerns:
- Our meetings are comparatively public matters; we don't especially mind
if more people listen in
- The special concern I'd have is if joining a Zoom meeting exposed
members' personal information; we should certainly be wary of that
- One of the protections is somewhat troublesome to apply to us; we will be
a bit more vulnerable than average to "Zoom bombing" because we have a need
to publish the addressing information somewhat publicly

And I'd think that individuals should consider things like the following...
- Run the web interface atop a separate web browser from your 'usual'
activity so that it doesn't have as much to collect data from (I keep a
Chromium around for that sort of thing).
- Various considerations are mentioned here: <
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/how-to-secure-your-zoom-meetings-from-zoom-bombing-attacks/
>

It's actually a mighty useful thing to arrive at a set of protective
measures on this, as there are a lot of organizations using Zoom, and hence
some value if we have a sufficiently terse set of measures that might be
useful to others.
-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[William Park via talk]

On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 05:33:40PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
> On 2020-04-02 11:43 AM, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
> > We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided by
> > Evan Leibovitch.
> 
> Apparently there are security concerns with Zoom.
> 
> https://www.wired.com/story/zoom-backlash-zero-days/

I haven't installed Zoom on my personal machines, because it wants
access to stuffs that had nothing to do with A/V.
-- 
William Park 
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[Scott Allen via talk]

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 18:39, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
> And this, reported today:
> 

And this:


-- 
Scott
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: James Knott via talk 

| On 2020-04-02 11:43 AM, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
| > We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided by
| > Evan Leibovitch.
| 
| Apparently there are security concerns with Zoom.
| 
| https://www.wired.com/story/zoom-backlash-zero-days/

And this, reported today:


"A Feature on Zoom Secretly Displayed Data From People’s LinkedIn 
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-02 11:43 AM, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided 
by Evan Leibovitch.


Apparently there are security concerns with Zoom.

https://www.wired.com/story/zoom-backlash-zero-days/
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 11:43:29AM -0400, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have enough time to prepare jitsi with the same
> features as zoom (call in numbers, up to 50 people etc.)
> 
> We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided by
> Evan Leibovitch.
> 
> Maybe for for meeting after that we will be able to come up with open-source
> solutions.
> 
> I'll create an event in the next few days for our regular date & time --
> Tuesday, April 14, 7:30pm.

Setting up jitsi itself doesn't seem too hard (I think I just managed
to do it), but a call in number probably requires SIP and I have very
little experience with that.

But I was able to get video working between my phone and  acouple of
laptops quite happily in a browser window.  I then quickly muted all
the mics because the echo was going nuts between them.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[Alex Volkov via talk]

Hello Everyone,

Unfortunately I don't have enough time to prepare jitsi with the same 
features as zoom (call in numbers, up to 50 people etc.)


We're going to use zoom for the upcoming meeting, generously provided by 
Evan Leibovitch.


Maybe for for meeting after that we will be able to come up with 
open-source solutions.


I'll create an event in the next few days for our regular date & time -- 
Tuesday, April 14, 7:30pm.


Alex.

On 2020-03-25 8:25 p.m., Alex Volkov via talk wrote:

Hello Everyone,


We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having 
a Q&A.


Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable 
to work with?



* Zoom

* Hangouts

* Jitsi

* Something completely different

* Let's just skip a meeting


Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next 
meeting.



Thank you,


Alex.

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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 7:26 PM Alex Volkov via talk  wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
>
> We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a
> Q&A.
>
> Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to
> work with?
>
>
> * Zoom
>
> * Hangouts
>
> * Jitsi
>
> * Something completely different
>
> * Let's just skip a meeting
>
>
> Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next meeting.
>
>
Was looking into this for another group I'm a part of
https://elearningindustry.com/top-6-open-source-web-conferencing-software-tools-elearning-professionals

jitsi and the 'open meetings' look interesting - - - - sadly, no
experience as of
yet.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[William Park via talk]

Our company uses Zoom.  So, a vote for Zoom.
-- 
William Park 

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 08:25:23PM -0400, Alex Volkov via talk wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> 
> We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a
> Q&A.
> 
> Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to
> work with?
> 
> 
> * Zoom
> 
> * Hangouts
> 
> * Jitsi
> 
> * Something completely different
> 
> * Let's just skip a meeting
> 
> 
> Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next meeting.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> Alex.
> 
> ---
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[James Medeiros via talk]

Same here. Glad I can make one virtually (work in Toronto, live in Niagara)

I’ve had great experiences with Zoom.

James

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 9:05 PM 90ur1 90ur1 via talk 
wrote:

> This is great!
>
> I couldn't make it to the meetings because of the commute.
>
>
> Gouri
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 8:26 PM Alex Volkov via talk 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>>
>> We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a
>> Q&A.
>>
>> Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to
>> work with?
>>
>>
>> * Zoom
>>
>> * Hangouts
>>
>> * Jitsi
>>
>> * Something completely different
>>
>> * Let's just skip a meeting
>>
>>
>> Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next
>> meeting.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>> Alex.
>>
>> ---
>> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
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>> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
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Re: [GTALUG] Planning April Meeting

[90ur1 90ur1 via talk]

This is great!

I couldn't make it to the meetings because of the commute.


Gouri


On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 8:26 PM Alex Volkov via talk  wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
>
> We're thinking of doing April meeting online, we're thinking of having a
> Q&A.
>
> Which of the teleconference software do you find the most comfortable to
> work with?
>
>
> * Zoom
>
> * Hangouts
>
> * Jitsi
>
> * Something completely different
>
> * Let's just skip a meeting
>
>
> Please reply to this email so we can gauge the interest in the next
> meeting.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> Alex.
>
> ---
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> Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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