Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-07 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/6 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:

 Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a line within the area that
 defines the direction. it would have to be linked to the boundary by
 using relations(?)

 Yup that is how I think also. Still no complete solution, but probably
 worth refining this, as a start:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Area


yes, this is indeed one possible usage of this proposal: you could map
the beginning and end of each continuous steps. (this is 2 lines: one
indicating the lower end and one way following the upper end. In the
middle (horizontal areas with no elevation = landing) you could define
them as such (without even redrawing the ways). This enables as well
to map curved/multiangled steps, but still is problematic in cases,
where the steps intersect with a diversely inclined terrain (therefore
resulting in different amount of steps on the left and on the right
side). In the relation you could enter additional information
(steps=15) for the number of steps, to define it in ultimate detail
(optionally). Unfortunately no current renderer or router is able to
use this.


 Note that this will still not be a perfect solution for the
 semi-circular steps/terraces, because a way + area will not define the
 curve in each step.


yes, they will in many/most (exceptions see above) cases (according to
the area proposal you don't map areas as closed polygons).


 To do this explicitly, you'd probably want to
 map each step individually (as a curved way),


you would do this following the area-proposal, but you would probably
reduce it from each step to each first and last step of a
continuity of steps.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-07 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/7 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
 Interesting problem. Seems related to the general how to map a street
 as an area without sacrificing the properties of streets problem. Use
 an area, and a relation, with the relation specifying which way(s) are
 the top and bottom?


+1, as long as the lateral sides are straight, this could be solved
with 2 ways (one above and one below) and the area-relation (no yet
defined for steps). In case of curved sided it would be required to
enter them as well

cheers
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-07 Thread Robin Paulson
On 6 June 2010 12:21, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 highway=steps area=yes?


 A very good question posed by Alex. I have a few wide steps (~50m) in my
 city.

 It's a good start for a solution from Nathan, but it would need a
 direction tag in order for the renderers to know which way the steps
 went up  down.


we could adopt something similar to how waterway=riverbank and
waterway=river are used together. an area to mark the outline of the
steps; a single way to mark the 'direction' of them

 A similar(ish) problem was brought up recently regarding routing over
 pedestrian areas. They don't have an intrinsic direction in the way that
 linear ways do. Was a solution found?

does it matter? i'm not sure an area has a 'way' through it. by
definition, pedestrians can take any route across this, including
walking round in circles for hours on end. i assume when we mark it as
area=yes, any decent routing engine will treat the area as something
pedestrians can walk through by the shortest route

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-06 Thread Michael Buege
Zitat Dave F.:

 Nathan Edgars II wrote:
 Alexander Menk wrote:
   
 is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
 circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.
 

 highway=steps area=yes?

   
 A very good question posed by Alex. I have a few wide steps (~50m) in my
 city.
 
 It's a good start for a solution from Nathan,

IMHO highway=steps area=yes is the easiest way to mark steps as area. 
Unfortunately no renderer show it and routing applications will have also 
problems without a additional way element. But this should not prevent us 
from tagging steps as a area.

 but it would need a
 direction tag in order for the renderers to know which way the steps
 went up  down.

I wonder where is a really need for this information. Do you have a example?

 A similar(ish) problem was brought up recently regarding routing over
 pedestrian areas. They don't have an intrinsic direction in the way that
 linear ways do. Was a solution found?

Adding a way with the same attribution is my solution.
 
 Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a line within the area that
 defines the direction. it would have to be linked to the boundary by
 using relations(?)

If steps come up as a connection between other way elements, i think we need 
such a line element anyway. For example we can put a relevant information on 
the node represent the top of our step and doing the same on the other end.
I wonder how to teach a renderer drawing highway=steps area=yes in a way, 
everybody will recognize it as such on a map. Maybe it is easy on square 
shapes, but what about half circles or waves?
Just a idea: split the boundary in a top line, a bottom line and side lines 
and put it together with the way element mentioned above in a relation...

-- 
Michael


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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-06 Thread Roy Wallace
On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:

 Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a line within the area that
 defines the direction. it would have to be linked to the boundary by
 using relations(?)

Yup that is how I think also. Still no complete solution, but probably
worth refining this, as a start:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Area

Note that this will still not be a perfect solution for the
semi-circular steps/terraces, because a way + area will not define the
curve in each step. To do this explicitly, you'd probably want to
map each step individually (as a curved way), with something like
man_made=embankment.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-06 Thread Steve Bennett
Interesting problem. Seems related to the general how to map a street
as an area without sacrificing the properties of streets problem. Use
an area, and a relation, with the relation specifying which way(s) are
the top and bottom?

Steve

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Alexander Menk
 menk-you.should.remove.this.for.permanent.cont...@mestrona.net
 wrote:
 Hi!

 is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
 circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

 This is what I am talking about:

 http://www.addismap.com/exhibition/media/front-view.jpg

 And here the area on OSM:

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/8110597


 Greetings from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia

 Alexander

 I see what you mean.  Our simplified center line for stairs don't
 really give a very rich impression of that area.  The same problem, on
 a smaller scale exists here:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aerial_view_of_Lincoln_Memorial_-_east_side_EDIT.jpeg

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.889246lon=-77.049897zoom=18








 --
 Visit www.AddisMap.com


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[OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-05 Thread Alexander Menk
Hi!

is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half 
circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

This is what I am talking about:

http://www.addismap.com/exhibition/media/front-view.jpg

And here the area on OSM:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/8110597


Greetings from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia

Alexander

-- 
Visit www.AddisMap.com


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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-05 Thread Richard Weait
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Alexander Menk
menk-you.should.remove.this.for.permanent.cont...@mestrona.net
wrote:
 Hi!

 is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
 circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

 This is what I am talking about:

 http://www.addismap.com/exhibition/media/front-view.jpg

 And here the area on OSM:

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/8110597


 Greetings from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia

 Alexander

I see what you mean.  Our simplified center line for stairs don't
really give a very rich impression of that area.  The same problem, on
a smaller scale exists here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aerial_view_of_Lincoln_Memorial_-_east_side_EDIT.jpeg

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.889246lon=-77.049897zoom=18








 --
 Visit www.AddisMap.com


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[OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-05 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Alexander Menk wrote:
is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

highway=steps area=yes?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-05 Thread Dave F.
Nathan Edgars II wrote:
 Alexander Menk wrote:
   
 is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
 circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.
 

 highway=steps area=yes?

   
A very good question posed by Alex. I have a few wide steps (~50m) in my 
city.

It's a good start for a solution from Nathan, but it would need a 
direction tag in order for the renderers to know which way the steps 
went up  down.

A similar(ish) problem was brought up recently regarding routing over 
pedestrian areas. They don't have an intrinsic direction in the way that 
linear ways do. Was a solution found?


Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a line within the area that 
defines the direction. it would have to be linked to the boundary by 
using relations(?)

Hatch/Fill areas in CAD programs such as AutoCAD that have an angle 
attribute. Does mapnik  others have a rotation angle for fills?

 Cheers
Dave F.

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