Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk]

I wasn't saying you should import it. You were disputing about which 
dataset was more accurate. The County GIS is usually the best. You could 
compare the 2 in dispute, and use the county data to settle the argument.


Many TIGER Lines are better now but in the past have been greatly 
scorned for how inaccurate they were.


On 8/18/2020 9:39 PM, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:

i was told i could not use do to licence GIS to.

Tuesday, August 18, 2020 8:38 PM -05:00 from Brian M. Sperlongano
:
All,
I fixed this boundary relation and also one neighboring town
(Wheeling, IL) using the Cook County, Illinois GIS as the data
source, and re-used all of the original boundary relations.
Unfortunately it appears that all of Cook County needs to be
updated to reflect the county GIS data (found here:
https://hub-cookcountyil.opendata.arcgis.com/pages/boundary-open-data).
Those census polygons are fairly close, but different.  The two
border towns I checked just north in Lake County appear to line up
perfectly with the Cook County data so this might just be a Cook
County issue.  This is a start but there's lots of work to do there.
On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:10 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us
>
wrote:

lines no relations yes

Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:52 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson
>:
On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via
Talk-us http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3atalk%2...@openstreetmap.org>>
wrote:

i will fix anything that i missed but the lines are truth.
and it is not a polygon,

As far as I know, boundary relations have to, in effect,
be polygons, in other words, they have to close.

and i broke nothing i fixed what the other guy broke
and did it all by hand.

The boundary relation (126598) is currently broken. for
one thing, it doesn't close at the location of
Williamsberg Square residential area.
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

i was told i could not use do to licence GIS to.

  
>Tuesday, August 18, 2020 8:38 PM -05:00 from Brian M. Sperlongano 
>:
> 
>All,
> 
>I fixed this boundary relation and also one neighboring town (Wheeling, IL) 
>using the Cook County, Illinois GIS as the data source, and re-used all of the 
>original boundary relations.  Unfortunately it appears that all of Cook County 
>needs to be updated to reflect the county GIS data (found here:  
>https://hub-cookcountyil.opendata.arcgis.com/pages/boundary-open-data ).  
>Those census polygons are fairly close, but different.  The two border towns I 
>checked just north in Lake County appear to line up perfectly with the Cook 
>County data so this might just be a Cook County issue.  This is a start but 
>there's lots of work to do there.
>   
>On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:10 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>lines no relations yes
>>
>>  
>>>Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:52 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson < 
>>>miketh...@gmail.com >:
>>> 
>>>   
>>>On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>>>talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
i will fix anything that i missed but the lines are truth.
 
and it is not a polygon,
>>>As far as I know, boundary relations have to, in effect, be polygons, in 
>>>other words, they have to close.
>>> 
and i broke nothing i fixed what the other guy broke and did it all by hand.
>>>The boundary relation ( 126598 )  is currently broken. for one thing, it 
>>>doesn't close at the location of Williamsberg Square residential area.
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

>Tuesday, August 18, 2020 8:23 PM -05:00 from John D. :
> 
>i was told i could not use non OSM licenses. 
>
> 
>>Tuesday, August 18, 2020 8:19 PM -05:00 from "Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk" < 
>>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
>> 
>>Cook County GIS most likely has the most authoritative dataset. You can 
>>download it here:
>>https://hub-cookcountyil.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/534226c6b1034985aca1e14a2eb234af_2?geometry=-88.214%2C42.072%2C-87.560%2C42.161
>> 
>> 
>>On  8/18/2020 8 :51 PM, Mike Thompson wrote:
>>>   
>>>On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>>>talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
i will fix anything that i missed but the lines are truth.
 
and it is not a polygon,
>>>As far as I know, boundary relations have to, in effect, be polygons, in 
>>>other words, they have to close.
>>> 
and i broke nothing i fixed what the other guy broke and did it all by hand.
>>>The boundary relation ( 126598 )  is currently broken. for one thing, it 
>>>doesn't close at the location of Williamsberg Square residential area.  
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
>  
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk]

Cook County GIS most likely has the most authoritative dataset. You can 
download it here:

https://hub-cookcountyil.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/534226c6b1034985aca1e14a2eb234af_2?geometry=-88.214%2C42.072%2C-87.560%2C42.161


On 8/18/2020 8:51 PM, Mike Thompson wrote:



On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us 
mailto:talk...@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:


i will fix anything that i missed but the lines are truth.
and it is not a polygon,

As far as I know, boundary relations have to, in effect, be polygons, 
in other words, they have to close.


and i broke nothing i fixed what the other guy broke and did
it all by hand.

The boundary relation (126598) is currently broken. for one thing, it 
doesn't close at the location of Williamsberg Square residential area.



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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

lines no relations yes

  
>Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:52 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson 
>:
> 
>   
>On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>i will fix anything that i missed but the lines are truth.
>> 
>>and it is not a polygon,
>As far as I know, boundary relations have to, in effect, be polygons, in other 
>words, they have to close.
> 
>>and i broke nothing i fixed what the other guy broke and did it all by hand.
>The boundary relation ( 126598 )  is currently broken. for one thing, it 
>doesn't close at the location of Williamsberg Square residential area.
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>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[Mike Thompson]

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:42 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> i will fix anything that i missed but the lines are truth.
>
> and it is not a polygon,
>
As far as I know, boundary relations have to, in effect, be polygons, in
other words, they have to close.


> and i broke nothing i fixed what the other guy broke and did it all by
> hand.
>
The boundary relation (126598)  is currently broken. for one thing, it
doesn't close at the location of Williamsberg Square residential area.
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

i will fix anything that i missed but the lines are truth.
 
and it is not a polygon, and i broke nothing i fixed what the other guy broke 
and did it all by hand.
  
>Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:36 PM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar 
>:
> 
>I'm going to bow out of this discussion. The boundary relation is
>broken again. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but my attempts to
>figure out what sources this user is using and to reconcile this with
>what they are editing appear to be antagonizing them. I have also lost
>my patience so I will probably not be the most understanding anymore.
>
>James
> 
>On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 20:23 -0400, Kevin Kenny wrote:
>> You still aren't giving us very much to go on. There's obviously
>> some boundary that you consider to be inarguably correct. You need
>> either to enter the data yourself or tell us where to find it and
>> where the discrepancies are.
>>
>> Sometimes that involves quite a lot of research. I have a ton of data
>> conflicts about boundaries near me, and only rarely do I have the
>> time to pursue the issues. If often involves reconciling half a dozen
>> supposedly authoritative sources, as shown in
>>  https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ke9tv/diary/391486 . It's very
>> rarely as simple as 'agency X is wrong and agency Y is right'. It's
>> often 'agency X has lines that reflect current annexation, but part
>> of their boundary is in NAD27 and part WGS84. Agency Y misses a
>> recent annexation but has got the datums right. Agency Z has the
>> artificial lines right, but is totally off base with the shorelines.
>> Agency W appears to have digitized from a small-scale map and has a
>> ton of quantization error.'
>>
>> It's not a political boundary, but
>>  https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ke9tv/diary/42951 shows another
>> example of the level of cadastral research that's often required to
>> sort these things out.
>>
>> By the way, I _do_ occasionally go out into the field and try to
>> recover old survey marks to sort these things out. For the
>> inconsistent corner between Lost Clove Unit and Big Indian Wilderness
>> at  https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/attachments/20191205/osm-vs-nysgis.png I
>> simply gave up. There are cairns at both corners. If the professional
>> surveyors couldn't close the line, what hope do I have? (Nobody
>> actually cares. It's wilderness anyway.)
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 8:03 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
>>  talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>> > FYI;
>> >
>> > for all of you who are not in country and do not understand about
>> > usa city bounders.
>> >
>> >  https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/contact.html
>> >
>> > and did you read what the other guy said, this is the census data
>> > not true map data.
>> >
>> >  https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89598349 .
>> >
>> > > Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:52 AM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar <
>> > >  jumba...@gmail.com >:
>> > >
>> > > What link are you using for this? I downloaded the places
>> > > boundary
>> > > information from here:
>> > >  https://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/geo/shapefiles/index.php
>> > >
>> > > As I said, I'm happy to change, but I can't change without actual
>> > > information.
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 18:43 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > i am looking at the TIRGER web, show’s the real map online and
>> > > > nothing you did matches.
>> > > >
>> > > > i live here and a block away from the edens spur just saying.
>> > > >
>> > > > > Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:38 AM -05:00 from James
>> > > Umbanhowar <
>> > > > >  jumba...@gmail.com >:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It would probably be best if these suggestions were added in
>> > > the
>> > > > > changeset comments, as they don't need to be discussed on the
>> > > > > mailing
>> > > > > list.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 11:36 -0400, James Umbanhowar wrote:
>> > > > > > I'm the person who made the changes and am happy to adjust
>> > > the
>> > > > > map to
>> > > > > > better authoritative data or information. My motivation for
>> > > this
>> > > > > was
>> > > > > > to fix a mangled boundary relation that didn't have
>> > > consistent
>> > > > > outer
>> > > > > > and inner members. The changes came in two changesets,
>> > > > > >  https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89220282 and
>> > > > > >  https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89516909
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The first changeset just made the relation consistent with
>> > > outer
>> > > > > ways
>> > > > > > and inner ways. I preserved all the ways that were in the
>> > > > > relation
>> > > > > > that
>> > > > > > lead to the inconsistency and they are still in the
>> > > database with
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > > note attached to them. The second came after a changeset
>> > > comment
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > noted that the fixed relation didn't match and earlier
>> > > unbroken
>> > > > > > relation, in particular around the Edens Spur. I then
>> > > changed the
>> > > > > > border 

Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[Clay Smalley]

Do you have a more authoritative source for municipal boundaries than the
US Census Bureau?

If you don't, it'll be hard for you to convince everyone here that the US
Census data is wrong.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 5:03 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> FYI;
>
> for all of you who are not in country and do not understand about usa
> city bounders.
>
> https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/contact.html
>
> and did you read what the other guy said, this is the census data not true
> map data.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89598349.
>
>
> Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:52 AM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar <
> jumba...@gmail.com>:
>
> What link are you using for this? I downloaded the places boundary
> information from here:
> https://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/geo/shapefiles/index.php
>
> As I said, I'm happy to change, but I can't change without actual
> information.
>
> On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 18:43 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us wrote:
> > i am looking at the TIRGER web, show’s the real map online and
> > nothing you did matches.
> >
> > i live here and a block away from the edens spur just saying.
> >
> > > Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:38 AM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar <
> > > jumba...@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > It would probably be best if these suggestions were added in the
> > > changeset comments, as they don't need to be discussed on the
> > > mailing
> > > list.
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 11:36 -0400, James Umbanhowar wrote:
> > > > I'm the person who made the changes and am happy to adjust the
> > > map to
> > > > better authoritative data or information. My motivation for this
> > > was
> > > > to fix a mangled boundary relation that didn't have consistent
> > > outer
> > > > and inner members. The changes came in two changesets,
> > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89220282 and
> > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89516909
> > > >
> > > > The first changeset just made the relation consistent with outer
> > > ways
> > > > and inner ways. I preserved all the ways that were in the
> > > relation
> > > > that
> > > > lead to the inconsistency and they are still in the database with
> > > a
> > > > note attached to them. The second came after a changeset comment
> > > that
> > > > noted that the fixed relation didn't match and earlier unbroken
> > > > relation, in particular around the Edens Spur. I then changed the
> > > > border in this area to match the 2019 Tiger data in that area
> > > only.
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 02:37 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Changeset #89220282
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Monday, August 17, 2020 6:34 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson <
> > > > > > miketh...@gmail.com>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 5:24 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> > > > > > talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > tiger is up to date on the web map using the current data i
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > think he picked the wrong year,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That relation was first created in 2009. According to the
> > > source
> > > > > > tag, it used 2008 Tiger data, so the original mapper probably
> > > > > > used
> > > > > > the best available TIGER data at the time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > also all he got was a white line in his first try.
> > > > > > > Way: 813726663
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That way needs to be added to the relation, and the relation
> > > must
> > > > > > close.
> > >
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

FYI;
 
for all of you who are not in country and do not understand about usa city 
bounders.
 
https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/contact.html
 
and did you read what the other guy said, this is the census data not true map 
data.
 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89598349 .
 
>Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:52 AM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar < 
>jumba...@gmail.com >:
> 
>What link are you using for this? I downloaded the places boundary
>information from here:
>https://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/geo/shapefiles/index.php
>
>As I said, I'm happy to change, but I can't change without actual
>information.
>
>On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 18:43 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us wrote:
>> i am looking at the TIRGER web, show’s the real map online and
>> nothing you did matches.
>>
>> i live here and a block away from the edens spur just saying.
>>
>> > Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:38 AM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar <
>> >  jumba...@gmail.com >:
>> >
>> > It would probably be best if these suggestions were added in the
>> > changeset comments, as they don't need to be discussed on the
>> > mailing
>> > list.
>> >
>> > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 11:36 -0400, James Umbanhowar wrote:
>> > > I'm the person who made the changes and am happy to adjust the
>> > map to
>> > > better authoritative data or information. My motivation for this
>> > was
>> > > to fix a mangled boundary relation that didn't have consistent
>> > outer
>> > > and inner members. The changes came in two changesets,
>> > >  https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89220282 and
>> > >  https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89516909
>> > >
>> > > The first changeset just made the relation consistent with outer
>> > ways
>> > > and inner ways. I preserved all the ways that were in the
>> > relation
>> > > that
>> > > lead to the inconsistency and they are still in the database with
>> > a
>> > > note attached to them. The second came after a changeset comment
>> > that
>> > > noted that the fixed relation didn't match and earlier unbroken
>> > > relation, in particular around the Edens Spur. I then changed the
>> > > border in this area to match the 2019 Tiger data in that area
>> > only.
>> > >
>> > > James
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 02:37 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us
>> > wrote:
>> > > > Changeset #89220282
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > Monday, August 17, 2020 6:34 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson <
>> > > > >  miketh...@gmail.com >:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 5:24 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
>> > > > >  talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>> > > > > > tiger is up to date on the web map using the current data i
>> > > > > > just
>> > > > > > think he picked the wrong year,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > That relation was first created in 2009. According to the
>> > source
>> > > > > tag, it used 2008 Tiger data, so the original mapper probably
>> > > > > used
>> > > > > the best available TIGER data at the time.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > also all he got was a white line in his first try.
>> > > > > > Way:  813726663
>> > > > >
>> > > > > That way needs to be added to the relation, and the relation
>> > must
>> > > > > close.
>> >
 
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