Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hello Mishari,

I use DJI Phantom 3 Advanced [1]. There is already Phantom 4 which has 
got slightly better camera, but a bit shorter flight range. Phantom has 
got intelligent flight modes, from which I use the Point of Interest. In 
this mode aircraft flies automatically around an object, and it is 
impossible to pilot so precisely manually (an example is on the video 
below).


There is also DJI Inspire quad but it weighs 2.9 kg (two times more than 
Phantom's 1.2 kg). All DJI quads has got a GPS navigation and a GPS 
enabled camera, so there will be exact geographical coordinates in 
produced JPG images, and an aircraft has got a Return Home feature. 
Return Home means that if a pilot lost a quad from the LOS (line of 
sight) in the sky, or a radio control signal is lost for some reason, it 
still can return and land automatically via this feature. It is an 
useful security function.


I would recommend to fly early in the morning on a sunny and quiet day 
(see local weather forecast beforehand), as the light is better [2], the 
air is clear, but also there are less people and less vehicles on the 
streets early in the morning. I usually wait for good weather as long as 
it takes for flying in a town or a city.


Also it makes sense to check local regulations [3] (but better from an 
official source), and try to follow them as much as possible. As much as 
possible, because, for instance, it is allowed normally to fly only in 
the LOS mode, but fly-always may happen unintentionally, in this case a 
pilot may still return either via FPV (first person view), or Return 
Home feature.


[1] http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-3-adv
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hour_(photography)
[3] 
http://www.richardbarrow.com/2015/08/quick-look-at-the-new-and-updated-drone-law-in-thailand/


brgds
O.M.

On 09/08/16 09:55, Mishari Muqbil wrote:


Hello,

I'm just trying to track down a drone provider but I'm not sure if 
anyone here has ideas of the kind of specifications I should be asking 
for. I assume that it should have a GPS enabled camera and some sort 
of path following feature. Anything else?


Thank you everybody for your input so far.

Best regards
Mishari


On Jul 28, 2016 12:29 PM, "Oleksiy Muzalyev" 
> wrote:


Power poles, wires, wind, trees are usual dangers for multirotor
aircraft too. There is also an issue of a large bird attack. These
risks could be mitigated via sport flying.

I usually train sport flying at a stadium very early in the
morning when there no people there. I have got a small trainer
quadcopter, several foldable Air Gates, and Air Flags. There are
also gates at an American football field with high poles, which
are good for learning to fly in narrow spaces.

I have an impression that birds being excellent fliers themselves
can immediately see the level of piloting skills of a RPAS
(Remotely Piloted Aircraft System) pilot. If they see that it is
an friendly experienced pilot they usually do not attack. In any
case I regularly train diving and other BFM
 .

In addition to aerial images I also film aerial video. Video
provides an additional information. For example, recently I filmed
a medieval Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi fortress [1] in Ukraine. I upload
a video to Wikimedia, add a video link to the Wikidata page, and
add wikidata tag to the OSM map for this object.

Wikimedia accepts videos only in open OGG and WEBM formats.
Unfortunately, some quality is always lost during conversion to
these formats. You can see the same HD video at youtube and
compare the quality [2]; I tried all convertors which I could find
for Mac.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi_fortress

[2] https://youtu.be/C-kQjmzlY7A

On 27/07/16 23:42, hyan...@gmail.com  wrote:

Yes, ballons and kites is a good community-engaged method; in my
particular case we face problems with the public-lab-ballon-kit
because irregular power poles/wires at a low height, plus some
wind present during the activity, so it wasn't possible (and a
little insecure).  Regarding stiching it was not so easy to deal
with 89 pictures using the MapKnitter (version 1 1/2 years ago),
so by the moment aerial orthophotomosaics software seems to be
the option. Another point regarding ballons is the cost of the
helium.

About security (and mobile apps) you should consider to create a
previous relationship with the community, so start with workshops
or other activities.  In my particualr case for the replication
in other slums in Colombia, the conclution to my proposal was
"not recommended".  If your focus is catastral, ultra-high-res
aerial imagery is 

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Mishari Muqbil]

Hello,

I'm just trying to track down a drone provider but I'm not sure if anyone
here has ideas of the kind of specifications I should be asking for. I
assume that it should have a GPS enabled camera and some sort of path
following feature. Anything else?

Thank you everybody for your input so far.

Best regards
Mishari

On Jul 28, 2016 12:29 PM, "Oleksiy Muzalyev" 
wrote:

> Power poles, wires, wind, trees are usual dangers for multirotor aircraft
> too. There is also an issue of a large bird attack. These risks could be
> mitigated via sport flying.
>
> I usually train sport flying at a stadium very early in the morning when
> there no people there. I have got a small trainer quadcopter, several
> foldable Air Gates, and Air Flags. There are also gates at an American
> football field with high poles, which are good for learning to fly in
> narrow spaces.
>
> I have an impression that birds being excellent fliers themselves can
> immediately see the level of piloting skills of a RPAS (Remotely Piloted
> Aircraft System) pilot. If they see that it is an friendly experienced
> pilot they usually do not attack. In any case I regularly train diving and
> other BFM  .
>
> In addition to aerial images I also film aerial video. Video provides an
> additional information. For example, recently I filmed a medieval
> Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi fortress [1] in Ukraine. I upload a video to
> Wikimedia, add a video link to the Wikidata page, and add wikidata tag to
> the OSM map for this object.
>
> Wikimedia accepts videos only in open OGG and WEBM formats. Unfortunately,
> some quality is always lost during conversion to these formats. You can see
> the same HD video at youtube and compare the quality [2]; I tried all
> convertors which I could find for Mac.
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi_fortress
> [2] https://youtu.be/C-kQjmzlY7A
>
> On 27/07/16 23:42, hyan...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Yes, ballons and kites is a good community-engaged method; in my
> particular case we face problems with the public-lab-ballon-kit because
> irregular power poles/wires at a low height, plus some wind present during
> the activity, so it wasn't possible (and a little insecure).  Regarding
> stiching it was not so easy to deal with 89 pictures using the MapKnitter
> (version 1 1/2 years ago), so by the moment aerial orthophotomosaics
> software seems to be the option. Another point regarding ballons is the
> cost of the helium.
>
> About security (and mobile apps) you should consider to create a previous
> relationship with the community, so start with workshops or other
> activities.  In my particualr case for the replication in other slums in
> Colombia, the conclution to my proposal was "not recommended".  If your
> focus is catastral, ultra-high-res aerial imagery is the better way, mobile
> apps can create ancyllary pictures, very useful indeed
> .
>
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Power poles, wires, wind, trees are usual dangers for multirotor 
aircraft too. There is also an issue of a large bird attack. These risks 
could be mitigated via sport flying.


I usually train sport flying at a stadium very early in the morning when 
there no people there. I have got a small trainer quadcopter, several 
foldable Air Gates, and Air Flags. There are also gates at an American 
football field with high poles, which are good for learning to fly in 
narrow spaces.


I have an impression that birds being excellent fliers themselves can 
immediately see the level of piloting skills of a RPAS (Remotely Piloted 
Aircraft System) pilot. If they see that it is an friendly experienced 
pilot they usually do not attack. In any case I regularly train diving 
and other BFM  .


In addition to aerial images I also film aerial video. Video provides an 
additional information. For example, recently I filmed a medieval 
Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi fortress [1] in Ukraine. I upload a video to 
Wikimedia, add a video link to the Wikidata page, and add wikidata tag 
to the OSM map for this object.


Wikimedia accepts videos only in open OGG and WEBM formats. 
Unfortunately, some quality is always lost during conversion to these 
formats. You can see the same HD video at youtube and compare the 
quality [2]; I tried all convertors which I could find for Mac.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi_fortress
[2] https://youtu.be/C-kQjmzlY7A

On 27/07/16 23:42, hyan...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, ballons and kites is a good community-engaged method; in my 
particular case we face problems with the public-lab-ballon-kit 
because irregular power poles/wires at a low height, plus some wind 
present during the activity, so it wasn't possible (and a little 
insecure).  Regarding stiching it was not so easy to deal with 89 
pictures using the MapKnitter (version 1 1/2 years ago), so by the 
moment aerial orthophotomosaics software seems to be the option. 
Another point regarding ballons is the cost of the helium.


About security (and mobile apps) you should consider to create a 
previous relationship with the community, so start with workshops or 
other activities.  In my particualr case for the replication in other 
slums in Colombia, the conclution to my proposal was "not 
recommended".  If your focus is catastral, ultra-high-res aerial 
imagery is the better way, mobile apps can create ancyllary pictures, 
very useful indeed 
. 



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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[hyan...@gmail.com]

Yes, ballons and kites is a good community-engaged method; in my particular
case we face problems with the public-lab-ballon-kit because irregular
power poles/wires at a low height, plus some wind present during the
activity, so it wasn't possible (and a little insecure).  Regarding
stiching it was not so easy to deal with 89 pictures using the MapKnitter
(version 1 1/2 years ago), so by the moment aerial orthophotomosaics
software seems to be the option. Another point regarding ballons is the
cost of the helium.

About security (and mobile apps) you should consider to create a previous
relationship with the community, so start with workshops or other
activities.  In my particualr case for the replication in other slums in
Colombia, the conclution to my proposal was "not recommended".  If your
focus is catastral, ultra-high-res aerial imagery is the better way, mobile
apps can create ancyllary pictures, very useful indeed
.


2016-07-15 9:18 GMT-05:00 Liz Barry :

> Hi everyone,
> It is inspiring to hear of these projects in Bangkok and Cartagena! <3
>
> Depending on the wind and when the rainy season is about to start in
> Bangkok, putting a kite up in the air with a small camera could be the
> fastest and most community-engaged / hands-on / accessible / repeatable way
> to get aerial imagery:
> http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-news/524907/the-kite-flying-season-in-bangkok
>
> Once you have an aerial photo (by balloon/kite/drone/really long
> bamboo pole :), you can place
> (georeference) it in http://mapknitter.org/, then it's one click to
> loading that base imagery in any/all of OSM's editors for tracing over.
>
> I copied the grassroots mapping list where there are people to chat with
> about DIY aerial imagery for mapping.
>
> Yours,
> Liz
>
>
>
> --
>
> +1 336-269-1539
> @lizbarry 
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 6:23 PM, hyan...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mishari,
>>
>> I can share from the experience to mapping slums in Cartagena, Colombia
>> with a Latinamerican NGO called TECHO (is not an acronym), plus the last
>> steps that you list (a, b, c) we started mapping the past using Bing
>> imagery (normally have imagery date); then a small aerial filming company 
>> donate
>> drone flights  to map the
>> present.  After that we count double of houses that community leader
>> beleive that exists; but using filedpapers on the field we get exact number
>> of houses an his conditions
>> 
>> (like presence of tilts to deal with floods).
>>
>> Pictures from mobiles apps and ballons just serve as helpers, but maybe
>> could be some security issues, so we prefer to use papers, all the steps
>> always include community members.
>>
>> This actually is a methodology for mapping slums in connection of every
>> house as spatial element with household surveys that give us a clear
>> picture of community dimensions, so useful for his inner development.
>>
>> I'm glad to say that now this slum is on the way to became a formal
>> neighborhood and OSM map is the base to achieve that, so mapping slums can
>> be a tool for poverty overcome, because as a formal one, they can be part
>> of local administration planning services and budget, and of course, with
>> all this information (that became in knowledge throught action) they know
>> how to proceed in his development path.
>>
>> I humbly hope this could help with your question; if not feel free to
>> come with more,
>>
>> Humberto Yances
>>
>>
>> 2016-07-14 5:58 GMT-05:00 Mishari Muqbil :
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I just wanted to feedback from the community for our effort to map the
>>> slums in Klong Toey, Bangkok. The size of the area is about 1km x 2 km
>>> around here 
>>> and I have captured a sequence on Mapillay here
>>> .
>>> There are several challenges here including access to internet and English
>>> literacy, so I have come up with the following rough plan.
>>>
>>> 1. Put out a call for volunteers, work with NGOs in the area to find
>>> local kids who are interested in putting their community on the map.
>>> 2. Train the kids in using ID editor. I think I will limit them to doing
>>> specific things i.e. walkways, houses, trees, restaurant, convenience
>>> stores with individual kids limited to 2-3 features to avoid confusion then
>>> as they get the hang of it, increase their repertoire.
>>> 3. Take over a local internet cafe for a day for training and mapping
>>> purpose.
>>>
>>> Now I'm not sure about the rest of the process, you can see from
>>> 

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Morray]

Or look into the corresponding well-written, although a bit strongly
politically colored, book:
https://www.versobooks.com/books/2011-radical-cities
Am 15.07.2016 um 20:20 schrieb Oleksiy Muzalyev:
> Dear Mishari,
>
> If you are interested in the subject of slums, you may read and view
> videos about the work of Prof. Alfredo Brillembourg:
>
> http://www.designboom.com/architecture/interview-alfredo-brillembourg-of-urban-think-tank-06-12-2014/
>
>
> This man is part of the Urban-Think Tank (U-TT). This organization has
> got the practical know-how of redeveloping slums by their dwellers
> themselves after some additional training in construction. They also
> have got the technology of re-planing, dealing with local authorities,
> etc.
>
> Several of their projects turned slums into nice districts with
> minimal cost.
>
> I was at the conference of Prof. Alfredo Brillembourg. He said that
> 95% of humanity lives in slums, and consequently the history of
> civilizations happens also in slums. They invest into this work
> serious thinking and practical effort.
>
> Best regards,
> Oleksiy
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Dear Mishari,

If you are interested in the subject of slums, you may read and view 
videos about the work of Prof. Alfredo Brillembourg:


http://www.designboom.com/architecture/interview-alfredo-brillembourg-of-urban-think-tank-06-12-2014/

This man is part of the Urban-Think Tank (U-TT). This organization has 
got the practical know-how of redeveloping slums by their dwellers 
themselves after some additional training in construction. They also 
have got the technology of re-planing, dealing with local authorities, etc.


Several of their projects turned slums into nice districts with minimal 
cost.


I was at the conference of Prof. Alfredo Brillembourg. He said that 95% 
of humanity lives in slums, and consequently the history of 
civilizations happens also in slums. They invest into this work serious 
thinking and practical effort.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Dear Mishari,

If you plan borrowing a drone for filming in an urban area, I would 
advise to obtain first a small trainer quad-copter and fly it 
extensively in an open remote area to develop some flying experience and 
piloting instincts. Most of crashes are caused by an avoidable pilot 
error, - you may read about it at the DJI Phantom forum: 
http://forum.dji.com/forum-68-1.html


There is a Wikipedia article on the whole Klong Toey 
 district. You may 
then add ground and oblique aerial images & videos to this article's 
Wikimedia category and even to the article itself, and add a wikipedia & 
wikidata tags to the OSM map. So there will be better understanding of 
what situated where, how it looks in general, what is a 3D layout, etc.


Here are some examples of aerial photos and videos which I filmed for 
Wikipedia articles:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyon_Castle (video is on the article page)
and an oblique aerial photo:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Nyon-Castle-aerial-3.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coll%C3%A8ge_de_Saussure  (video is on the 
article page)

and an oblique aerial photos:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Coll%C3%A8ge_de_Saussure

Best regards,
Oleksiy



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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Liz Barry]

Hi everyone,
It is inspiring to hear of these projects in Bangkok and Cartagena! <3

Depending on the wind and when the rainy season is about to start in
Bangkok, putting a kite up in the air with a small camera could be the
fastest and most community-engaged / hands-on / accessible / repeatable way
to get aerial imagery:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-news/524907/the-kite-flying-season-in-bangkok

Once you have an aerial photo (by balloon/kite/drone/really long bamboo
pole :), you can place
(georeference) it in http://mapknitter.org/, then it's one click to loading
that base imagery in any/all of OSM's editors for tracing over.

I copied the grassroots mapping list where there are people to chat with
about DIY aerial imagery for mapping.

Yours,
Liz



--

+1 336-269-1539
@lizbarry 


On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 6:23 PM, hyan...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi Mishari,
>
> I can share from the experience to mapping slums in Cartagena, Colombia
> with a Latinamerican NGO called TECHO (is not an acronym), plus the last
> steps that you list (a, b, c) we started mapping the past using Bing
> imagery (normally have imagery date); then a small aerial filming company 
> donate
> drone flights  to map the
> present.  After that we count double of houses that community leader
> beleive that exists; but using filedpapers on the field we get exact number
> of houses an his conditions
> 
> (like presence of tilts to deal with floods).
>
> Pictures from mobiles apps and ballons just serve as helpers, but maybe
> could be some security issues, so we prefer to use papers, all the steps
> always include community members.
>
> This actually is a methodology for mapping slums in connection of every
> house as spatial element with household surveys that give us a clear
> picture of community dimensions, so useful for his inner development.
>
> I'm glad to say that now this slum is on the way to became a formal
> neighborhood and OSM map is the base to achieve that, so mapping slums can
> be a tool for poverty overcome, because as a formal one, they can be part
> of local administration planning services and budget, and of course, with
> all this information (that became in knowledge throught action) they know
> how to proceed in his development path.
>
> I humbly hope this could help with your question; if not feel free to come
> with more,
>
> Humberto Yances
>
>
> 2016-07-14 5:58 GMT-05:00 Mishari Muqbil :
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I just wanted to feedback from the community for our effort to map the
>> slums in Klong Toey, Bangkok. The size of the area is about 1km x 2 km
>> around here  and
>> I have captured a sequence on Mapillay here
>> .
>> There are several challenges here including access to internet and English
>> literacy, so I have come up with the following rough plan.
>>
>> 1. Put out a call for volunteers, work with NGOs in the area to find
>> local kids who are interested in putting their community on the map.
>> 2. Train the kids in using ID editor. I think I will limit them to doing
>> specific things i.e. walkways, houses, trees, restaurant, convenience
>> stores with individual kids limited to 2-3 features to avoid confusion then
>> as they get the hang of it, increase their repertoire.
>> 3. Take over a local internet cafe for a day for training and mapping
>> purpose.
>>
>> Now I'm not sure about the rest of the process, you can see from
>> Mapillary that due to the somewhat dense nature of the community, GPS is
>> inaccurate and neither Bing nor Mapbox has enough of a resolution to be
>> meaningful. So I have several (possibly overlapping) ideas.
>>
>> a) hire or borrow a drone to take aerial imagery and upload to
>> openaerialmap and use that as a basemap but I'm not sure how possible it
>> will be to see through the roofs.
>> b) get a team of surveyor students from Prof. Garavig to map out the
>> paths in the community (it's pretty big so I'm not sure how tine consuming
>> it is) then have the community kids fill in the blank.
>> c) use walking papers and have the kids go out, sketching what they see
>> from the rooftop but I feel this may be prone to errors.
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience or tips they can share on how we can
>> achieve this?
>>
>> Best regards
>> Mishari
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[hyan...@gmail.com]

Hi Mishari,

I can share from the experience to mapping slums in Cartagena, Colombia
with a Latinamerican NGO called TECHO (is not an acronym), plus the last
steps that you list (a, b, c) we started mapping the past using Bing
imagery (normally have imagery date); then a small aerial filming
company donate
drone flights  to map the
present.  After that we count double of houses that community leader
beleive that exists; but using filedpapers on the field we get exact number
of houses an his conditions

(like presence of tilts to deal with floods).

Pictures from mobiles apps and ballons just serve as helpers, but maybe
could be some security issues, so we prefer to use papers, all the steps
always include community members.

This actually is a methodology for mapping slums in connection of every
house as spatial element with household surveys that give us a clear
picture of community dimensions, so useful for his inner development.

I'm glad to say that now this slum is on the way to became a formal
neighborhood and OSM map is the base to achieve that, so mapping slums can
be a tool for poverty overcome, because as a formal one, they can be part
of local administration planning services and budget, and of course, with
all this information (that became in knowledge throught action) they know
how to proceed in his development path.

I humbly hope this could help with your question; if not feel free to come
with more,

Humberto Yances


2016-07-14 5:58 GMT-05:00 Mishari Muqbil :

> Hello,
>
> I just wanted to feedback from the community for our effort to map the
> slums in Klong Toey, Bangkok. The size of the area is about 1km x 2 km
> around here  and
> I have captured a sequence on Mapillay here
> .
> There are several challenges here including access to internet and English
> literacy, so I have come up with the following rough plan.
>
> 1. Put out a call for volunteers, work with NGOs in the area to find local
> kids who are interested in putting their community on the map.
> 2. Train the kids in using ID editor. I think I will limit them to doing
> specific things i.e. walkways, houses, trees, restaurant, convenience
> stores with individual kids limited to 2-3 features to avoid confusion then
> as they get the hang of it, increase their repertoire.
> 3. Take over a local internet cafe for a day for training and mapping
> purpose.
>
> Now I'm not sure about the rest of the process, you can see from Mapillary
> that due to the somewhat dense nature of the community, GPS is inaccurate
> and neither Bing nor Mapbox has enough of a resolution to be meaningful. So
> I have several (possibly overlapping) ideas.
>
> a) hire or borrow a drone to take aerial imagery and upload to
> openaerialmap and use that as a basemap but I'm not sure how possible it
> will be to see through the roofs.
> b) get a team of surveyor students from Prof. Garavig to map out the paths
> in the community (it's pretty big so I'm not sure how tine consuming it is)
> then have the community kids fill in the blank.
> c) use walking papers and have the kids go out, sketching what they see
> from the rooftop but I feel this may be prone to errors.
>
> Does anyone have any experience or tips they can share on how we can
> achieve this?
>
> Best regards
> Mishari
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Nicolás Alvarez]

2016-07-14 7:58 GMT-03:00 Mishari Muqbil :
> Hello,
>
> I just wanted to feedback from the community for our effort to map the slums
> in Klong Toey, Bangkok. The size of the area is about 1km x 2 km around here
> and I have captured a sequence on Mapillay here. There are several
> challenges here including access to internet and English literacy, so I have
> come up with the following rough plan.
>
> 1. Put out a call for volunteers, work with NGOs in the area to find local
> kids who are interested in putting their community on the map.
> 2. Train the kids in using ID editor. I think I will limit them to doing
> specific things i.e. walkways, houses, trees, restaurant, convenience stores
> with individual kids limited to 2-3 features to avoid confusion then as they
> get the hang of it, increase their repertoire.
> 3. Take over a local internet cafe for a day for training and mapping
> purpose.
>
> Now I'm not sure about the rest of the process, you can see from Mapillary
> that due to the somewhat dense nature of the community, GPS is inaccurate
> and neither Bing nor Mapbox has enough of a resolution to be meaningful. So
> I have several (possibly overlapping) ideas.
>
> a) hire or borrow a drone to take aerial imagery and upload to openaerialmap
> and use that as a basemap but I'm not sure how possible it will be to see
> through the roofs.
> b) get a team of surveyor students from Prof. Garavig to map out the paths
> in the community (it's pretty big so I'm not sure how tine consuming it is)
> then have the community kids fill in the blank.
> c) use walking papers and have the kids go out, sketching what they see from
> the rooftop but I feel this may be prone to errors.
>
> Does anyone have any experience or tips they can share on how we can achieve
> this?
>
> Best regards
> Mishari

FWIW, if you and your volunteers take tons of pictures for Mapillary
and the Internet connection isn't good enough to upload them, you can
physically mail them a hard disk. Or have them mail you a hard disk
and you fill it with photos and ship it back. They have done it before
for special situations like this.

Let me know if you're interested in that.

-- 
Nicolás
with my Mapillary ambassador hat on

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Pierre Béland]

A funny and cheap alternative method to trace the narrow alleys and have good 
coordinates of POI's in the alleys : A small GPS tracker attached to a Balloon. 
You probably just have to assure to keep the balloon over the roofs both to 
have a good gps signal and to protect the balloon.

You coul try to have a small gps attached to a balloon with a good rope and 
protected in a plastic bottle. It would then be possible to walk in the alleys, 
take notes, use Field Paper drawings+notes and take pictures (mappillary or 
other) + time. Coming back you can compare the various notes / sketch / 
pictures and the traces using time. 

You just need to be carefull to synchronize time on GPS and other units. There 
are softwares to correct images coordinates with gps traces.
See http://www.aprs.org/balloons.html
http://www.aprs.org/balloon-n8pk.html
  
Pierre 


  De : Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr>
 À : "talk@openstreetmap.org" <talk@openstreetmap.org> 
Cc : Klaikong Vaidhayakarn <klaik...@gmail.com>; Garavig Tanaksaranond 
<garavi...@chula.ac.th>; Mishari Muqbil <mish...@mishari.net>
 Envoyé le : jeudi 14 juillet 2016 9h52
 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums
   
Hi Mishari,
This is efffectively a good challenge to map such area.  With the dense 
housing, remote mappers cannot interpret the imagery and spot either klones or 
paths.  From local knowledge, 

The first step would be to trace as much info as possible from the imagery :- 
big buildins- parks- klones and paths (with local knowledge, you can probably 
interpret the images and trace)

For the second step, as you suggested, various methods could be used. This is 
also and interesting challenge to try various ones and compare. With enough 
details added to the map, it would be possible I think to use FieldPapers and 
add POI's as restaurants or other features.

Drone imagery is also interesting if you can have authorization to fly in the 
area. We used drone imagery in north of Haiti to trace in dense areas and we 
could see easily paths around the houses. But the area was not as dense as 
yours.  
Pierre 


  De : Mishari Muqbil <mish...@mishari.net>
 À : talk@openstreetmap.org 
Cc : Klaikong Vaidhayakarn <klaik...@gmail.com>; Garavig Tanaksaranond 
<garavi...@chula.ac.th>
 Envoyé le : jeudi 14 juillet 2016 6h58
 Objet : [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums
  
Hello,
 
I just wanted to feedback from the community for our effort to map the slums in 
Klong Toey, Bangkok. The size of the area is about 1km x 2 km around here and I 
have captured a sequence on Mapillay here. There are several challenges here 
including access to internet and English literacy, so I have come up with the 
following rough plan.
 
1. Put out a call for volunteers, work with NGOs in the area to find local kids 
who are interested in putting their community on the map.
2. Train the kids in using ID editor. I think I will limit them to doing 
specific things i.e. walkways, houses, trees, restaurant, convenience stores 
with individual kids limited to 2-3 features to avoid confusion then as they 
get the hang of it, increase their repertoire.
3. Take over a local internet cafe for a day for training and mapping purpose.
 
Now I'm not sure about the rest of the process, you can see from Mapillary that 
due to the somewhat dense nature of the community, GPS is inaccurate and 
neither Bing nor Mapbox has enough of a resolution to be meaningful. So I have 
several (possibly overlapping) ideas.
 
a) hire or borrow a drone to take aerial imagery and upload to openaerialmap 
and use that as a basemap but I'm not sure how possible it will be to see 
through the roofs.
b) get a team of surveyor students from Prof. Garavig to map out the paths in 
the community (it's pretty big so I'm not sure how tine consuming it is) then 
have the community kids fill in the blank.
c) use walking papers and have the kids go out, sketching what they see from 
the rooftop but I feel this may be prone to errors.
 
Does anyone have any experience or tips they can share on how we can achieve 
this?
 
Best regards
Mishari

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums

[Pierre Béland]

Hi Mishari,
This is efffectively a good challenge to map such area.  With the dense 
housing, remote mappers cannot interpret the imagery and spot either klones or 
paths.  From local knowledge, 

The first step would be to trace as much info as possible from the imagery :- 
big buildins- parks- klones and paths (with local knowledge, you can probably 
interpret the images and trace)

For the second step, as you suggested, various methods could be used. This is 
also and interesting challenge to try various ones and compare. With enough 
details added to the map, it would be possible I think to use FieldPapers and 
add POI's as restaurants or other features.

Drone imagery is also interesting if you can have authorization to fly in the 
area. We used drone imagery in north of Haiti to trace in dense areas and we 
could see easily paths around the houses. But the area was not as dense as 
yours.  
Pierre 


  De : Mishari Muqbil 
 À : talk@openstreetmap.org 
Cc : Klaikong Vaidhayakarn ; Garavig Tanaksaranond 

 Envoyé le : jeudi 14 juillet 2016 6h58
 Objet : [OSM-talk] Mapping Klong Toey Slums
   
Hello,
 
I just wanted to feedback from the community for our effort to map the slums in 
Klong Toey, Bangkok. The size of the area is about 1km x 2 km around here and I 
have captured a sequence on Mapillay here. There are several challenges here 
including access to internet and English literacy, so I have come up with the 
following rough plan.
 
1. Put out a call for volunteers, work with NGOs in the area to find local kids 
who are interested in putting their community on the map.
2. Train the kids in using ID editor. I think I will limit them to doing 
specific things i.e. walkways, houses, trees, restaurant, convenience stores 
with individual kids limited to 2-3 features to avoid confusion then as they 
get the hang of it, increase their repertoire.
3. Take over a local internet cafe for a day for training and mapping purpose.
 
Now I'm not sure about the rest of the process, you can see from Mapillary that 
due to the somewhat dense nature of the community, GPS is inaccurate and 
neither Bing nor Mapbox has enough of a resolution to be meaningful. So I have 
several (possibly overlapping) ideas.
 
a) hire or borrow a drone to take aerial imagery and upload to openaerialmap 
and use that as a basemap but I'm not sure how possible it will be to see 
through the roofs.
b) get a team of surveyor students from Prof. Garavig to map out the paths in 
the community (it's pretty big so I'm not sure how tine consuming it is) then 
have the community kids fill in the blank.
c) use walking papers and have the kids go out, sketching what they see from 
the rooftop but I feel this may be prone to errors.
 
Does anyone have any experience or tips they can share on how we can achieve 
this?
 
Best regards
Mishari

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