Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Marck Pearlstone

On 10 May 2020 at 17:23 Lüko Willms wrote and made these points

LW> on Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 at 14:50  Marck Pearlstone 
 wrote
LW> re Delay when creating new message

... 
>>  10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - Connecting to IMAP server 
>> mail.silverstones.com on port 143
... 
>>  10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - Connecting to IMAP server 
>> mail.silverstones.com on port 143
... 
>>  10/05/2020, 13:17:28: IMAP  - Disconnected

LW>   I wonder why your system is not logged in to IMAP all the time,
LW> and then why there TheBat! is logging in to the IMAP4 server twice within 6 
seconds.

A  good  question. That may be the issue - I will try "Stay logged in"
as the setting if I can find it... which I can't...

LW>   Besides, for writing and sending a message, this goes via SMTP,
LW> not IMAP4, just as also POP3 is only for receiving.

Ah  -  you'd  have  thought  so.  Except...  the  outbound  message is
originally  created in the Outbox IMAP folder as a draft message. Only
the completed message will be sent via SMTP.

LW>   I just created and sent a message via one of my IMAP accounts,
LW> just for testing, and there was no need to connect via IMAP4. 

LW>   No delay at all in creating the message and sending it.

This  is  why  I  am not going to create a bug report... unless anyone
else has this experience.

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

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Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Andrew Savchenko
Hello Marck,

Sunday, May 10, 2020, 7:32:46 PM, you wrote:

> Is anyone else seeing this strange behaviour?

A bit of a shot in the dark, but have you tried with GPG disabled?


-- 
Regards,
A



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

2020-05-10 Thread Marck Pearlstone

On 10 May 2020 at 03:06 Andrew Savchenko wrote and made these points


AS> It is 2020 out there and TB mailing lists seem to be a little outdated.

AS> Screenshots being stripped from the messages unless it all fits in 25Kb,

(With amendments from the TBUDL response).

In the case of TBUDL, this seems to be happening regardless of size. I
have  looked  but  the  settings don't specify to do that. The hosting
server  has  shifted twice since we started to use the current rack. I
am not necessarily confident that the settings have ported correctly.

AS> famous "Current version is 8.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information" footer
AS> attached to all messages... Perhaps it is time for a maintenance?

This  footer  used to be maintained by admins every time a new release
came  from RITlabs, often with a slight lag. Max asked to control this
automatically  and  this was being done for a while. Then they stopped
updating  it.  I guess it's down to me again. (I am the sole admin and
mod these days, everyone else having resigned from the list). Max took
it  over  because  I  was updating it when the new MSI was released to
TBBETA,  not  in  the  loop  otherwise as to when a particular version
became the current release.

AS> Things that come to mind, in no particular order:

AS> * Increase size limits for attachments.

TBBETA has a 75kb limit and TBUDL 25kb.

I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

AS> * Remove or, at very least, update "current version" footer.

I  will  take  back  control  (where  have  I  heard  that before?) of
maintenance for this number.

AS> * Consider merging TDUDL/TBBETA into one.

That's  a  very large "NO". There are 2 distinct audiences - those who
test  new  features  and  those who want help with the current release
version as end users.

AS> * Move mailing lists homepage to a separate domain.

I don't know what this means...

AS> * Modernise lists website, enable HTTPs.

I  enabled  HTTPS  back in January. If anybody else wants to take this
over from me, go ahead - I will redirect.

(modified from the TBUDL response).

I see the links embedded in the FAQ doc are not https links (sigh).

AS> * Ensure lists historical data is available and easily exportable.

... we have done this multiple times in the 20+ years that we have run
these  lists.  The last massive move was to GMANE. They collapsed. Any
suggestions  as  to  where  we  should try next (and have our archives
dumped into the void when they go down too)?

(modified from the TBUDL response).

The mailing list archive is currently hosted on www.mail-archive.com

https://www.mail-archive.com/tbudl@thebat.dutaint.com/
https://www.mail-archive.com/tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com/

AS> * Collate available TheBat! documentation / FAQs / Tips.
AS> * etc.

That's  something  I did very enthusiastically back at the start. They
have  not  been  maintained  and  over  the years have become somewhat
dated.

AS> Thoughts?

... given.

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

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Re[2]: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Andrew Savchenko
Hello Marck,

Sunday, May 10, 2020, 8:48:31 PM, you wrote:

> I turned it back on manually to complete this reply.

...which arrived unsigned.

On the more serious note, you might try in-built logging functionality
as well as the `Procmon.exe` from Sysinternals. Latter will show you
roughly which call takes longer than expected.

Next logical step would be WinDBG.


-- 
Regards,
A



'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html


Re[2]: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Andrew Savchenko
Hello Marck,

Sunday, May 10, 2020, 11:21:26 PM, you wrote:

> I will look for more ways to reduce the traffic to this log. I already
> found  and  turned off the account "Verbose Logging" toggle. It didn't
> improve anything.

OK, how about novel and crazy idea? Create support ticket and let
RitLabs help with their commercially-licensed application :)


-- 
Regards,
A



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Marck Pearlstone

On 10 May 2020 at 12:42 Andrew Savchenko wrote and made these points

AS> Sunday, May 10, 2020, 8:48:31 PM, you wrote:

>> I turned it back on manually to complete this reply.

AS> ...which arrived unsigned.

I  did  turn back on the "Sign when complete" switch and it did prompt
me for my GPG signing passphrase. How strange!

AS> On the more serious note, you might try in-built logging functionality

I've checked logs but see nothing to indicate a struggle.

 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - Connecting to IMAP server mail.silverstones.com 
on port 143
 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - Connected to IMAP server (mail.silverstones.com)
>10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - silverstones.com IMAP4rev1 MDaemon 8.0.3 ready
 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - Authenticating (user: "ma...@silverstones.com", 
method: "LOGIN")...
 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - IMAP server authentication OK, server says 
"LOGIN completed"
 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - Connecting to IMAP server mail.silverstones.com 
on port 143
 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - Connected to IMAP server (mail.silverstones.com)
>10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - silverstones.com IMAP4rev1 MDaemon 8.0.3 ready
 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - Authenticating (user: "ma...@silverstones.com", 
method: "LOGIN")...
 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - IMAP server authentication OK, server says 
"LOGIN completed"
 10/05/2020, 13:17:28: IMAP  - Disconnected

No exceptions at this point.

AS> as well as the `Procmon.exe` from Sysinternals. Latter will show you
AS> roughly which call takes longer than expected.

This  shows  a lot of activity reading and writing the account_log.txt
file  and  opening TBN files 100s (if not 1000s) of times. The longest
pregnant  pause  is  4.2  seconds  spent creating an ACCOUNT.FLB file.
Other than that, there are a couple of functions that take up to 500ms
to  perform,  while  the  rest  is  time  taken  doing  1000s  of file
read/write operations.

AS> Next logical step would be WinDBG.

Yeah - no. I'm not doing that - too much like hard work!!

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

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Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Lüko Willms
Hello everybody,

on Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 at 14:50  Marck Pearlstone  
wrote
re Delay when creating new message

  

> I've checked logs but see nothing to indicate a struggle.

>  10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - Connecting to IMAP server 
> mail.silverstones.com on port 143
>  10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - Connected to IMAP server 
> (mail.silverstones.com)
>>10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - silverstones.com IMAP4rev1 MDaemon 8.0.3 ready
>  10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - Authenticating (user:
> "ma...@silverstones.com", method: "LOGIN")...
>  10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP  - IMAP server authentication OK, server says 
> "LOGIN completed"
>  10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - Connecting to IMAP server 
> mail.silverstones.com on port 143
>  10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - Connected to IMAP server 
> (mail.silverstones.com)
>>10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - silverstones.com IMAP4rev1 MDaemon 8.0.3 ready
>  10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - Authenticating (user:
> "ma...@silverstones.com", method: "LOGIN")...
>  10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP  - IMAP server authentication OK, server says 
> "LOGIN completed"
>  10/05/2020, 13:17:28: IMAP  - Disconnected

  I wonder why your system is not logged in to IMAP all the time, and then why 
there TheBat! is logging in to the IMAP4 server twice within 6 seconds. 
  
  Besides, for writing and sending a message, this goes via SMTP, not IMAP4, 
just as also POP3 is only for receiving. 
  
  I just created and sent a message via one of my IMAP accounts, just for 
testing, and there was no need to connect via IMAP4. 
  
  No delay at all in creating the message and sending it. 
  
  

Cheers,
Lüko Willms
Frankfurt am Main
Germany

using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA)
OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1)
CPU: AMD  amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+
MEM: 4097 MB 
'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html


Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Marck Pearlstone
Greetings Bat Fans,

I  have  been  experiencing a 15 second delay between a message editor
window  opening  (new message, reply or forward - all the same) during
which the whole TB interface is frozen.

This  has  become  a  source  of  extreme  frustration for me. Hitting
"Reply" and typing your thoughts is a distant memory for me.

Is anyone else seeing this strange behaviour?

I'm  writing  here, but this has been true for me for a long time now,
over  several  releases.  I  can't  even  remember  at what point this
started.

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

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'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: Future of TB* mailing lists

2020-05-10 Thread Andrew Savchenko
Hello Marck,

Sunday, May 10, 2020, 6:35:01 PM, you wrote:

> TBBETA has a 75kb limit and TBUDL 25kb.
> I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

250Kb for both? We are talking overall message size, body + headers. 
I see some peoples GPG-signing their messages as well.

> I  will  take  back  control 

Are you in UK by any chance? Because there was a precedent recently.. :)

> (where have I heard that before?) of maintenance for this number.

Thanks.

AS>> * Consider merging TDUDL/TBBETA into one.
> That's  a  very large "NO". There are 2 distinct audiences - those who
> test  new  features  and  those who want help with the current release
> version as end users.

Noted, OK.

AS>> * Move mailing lists homepage to a separate domain.
> I don't know what this means...

Its homepage is currently on the separate URL of www.silverstones.com.
I was thinking of adding some visibility and (hopefully!) attracting new
people by moving it to a second-level domain, for example:
* tbli.st
* tbl.ist
* tblist.com
* ...

In general, I am concerned about TB future as RitLabs seem to be in a 
stable decline during the last decade and I see little initiative from 
their side to improve the situation.

> I  enabled  HTTPS  back in January. If anybody else wants to take this
> over from me, go ahead - I will redirect.

https://www.silverstones.com/ returns self-signed certificate.
Could you upload archive of the currently available information?

> ... we have done this multiple times in the 20+ years that we have run
> these  lists.  The last massive move was to GMANE. They collapsed. Any
> suggestions  as  to  where  we  should try next (and have our archives
> dumped into the void when they go down too)?

Self-hosted Mailman (https://list.org) is a de-facto standard. We can push 
archives to GitHub and archive.org for historical preservation.

AS>> * Collate available TheBat! documentation / FAQs / Tips.
> That's  something  I did very enthusiastically back at the start. They
> have  not  been  maintained  and  over  the years have become somewhat
> dated.

Due to the lack of official WIKI... Shall we create un-official one?
There is an active German TheBat! forum, some members might be willing 
to help us.


-- 
Regards,
A



'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html


Re[2]: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Andrew Savchenko
Hello Marck,

Sunday, May 10, 2020, 10:20:49 PM, you wrote:

> This  shows  a lot of activity reading and writing the account_log.txt

I have no such file. Searching this mailing list returns two results,
one from Gwen back in October 2019 and another one from David Elliot 9
days ago. This makes me think writing to "account_log.txt" is optional 
and can be disabled.

Perhaps try launching Bat directly from CMD or PowerShell:
`./thebat64.exe` without flags.

Next, give a go to `/STARTUP_TIMING_LOG` and `/BENCHMARK_STARTUP_TIME`.
Former will create "ex_log.txt" file to analyse.


-- 
Regards,
A



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Marck Pearlstone

On 10 May 2020 at 14:35 Andrew Savchenko wrote and made these points

>> This  shows  a lot of activity reading and writing the account_log.txt

AS> I have no such file. Searching this mailing list returns two results,
AS> one from Gwen back in October 2019 and another one from David Elliot 9
AS> days ago. This makes me think writing to "account_log.txt" is optional
AS> and can be disabled.

I found this:

> The Bat! v6.0.0.19 BETA is available at
... 
> [*] Account log is now saved to ACCOUNT_LOG.TXT, not to
> ACCOUNT.LOG as before (Alpha issue)

I will look for more ways to reduce the traffic to this log. I already
found  and  turned off the account "Verbose Logging" toggle. It didn't
improve anything.

AS> Perhaps try launching Bat directly from CMD or PowerShell:
AS> `./thebat64.exe` without flags.

I  don't  load  with flags anyway, but this instance has been executed
from  cmd.  No  change  in  starting  this reply - a long pause and an
unresponsive window.

AS> Next, give a go to `/STARTUP_TIMING_LOG` and `/BENCHMARK_STARTUP_TIME`.
AS> Former will create "ex_log.txt" file to analyse.

While  I  could  do  this, I'm not getting the relevance. TB starts up
smoothly  in  a  couple  of  seconds.  The only lag I get in the whole
system  is  when I open a new message edit window - either for a reply
or a new message.

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

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'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Marck Pearlstone

On 10 May 2020 at 11:08 Andrew Savchenko wrote and made these points

>> Is anyone else seeing this strange behaviour?

AS> A bit of a shot in the dark, but have you tried with GPG disabled?

Just tried (not easy - it's in my QT's to enable it). No difference.

I turned it back on manually to complete this reply.

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 




'Using TBBETA' information:
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9.1.18.5 - removed

2020-05-10 Thread Maxim Masiutin via TBBETA
Hello Tbbeta,

We have removed 9.1.18.5 from downloads because it turned out to be not that 
good to be released, sorry.

-- 
Best regards,
Maxim Masiutin



'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html


Re[2]: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Andrew Savchenko
Hello Lüko,

Monday, May 11, 2020, 3:05:16 AM, you wrote:

>  There should be one in each subdirectory per account, there where
> your mail is kept, in the subdirectories INBOX, OUTBOX, SENT, TRASH,
> and fils ACCOUNT.*** with *** being CFN, FLB, HIS, M_D, M_R, QTB, RND,
> SRB, and VCF (some of these might be obsolete). 

Perhaps OTFP to blame? No such file, on-the-fly encryption is turned on.

>  In the directory pointed to by
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Ritlabs\The Bat!\Working Directory

I have only two DWORD keys there:
- TheBat64ExeStartMenuShortcut
- TheBat64LicenceStartMenuShortcut


-- 
Regards,
A



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Lüko Willms
Hello everybody,

on Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 at 15:35  Andrew Savchenko 
 wrote
re Delay when creating new message


>> This  shows  a lot of activity reading and writing the account_log.txt

> I have no such file.

 There should be one in each subdirectory per account, there where your mail is 
kept, in the subdirectories INBOX, OUTBOX, SENT, TRASH, and fils ACCOUNT.*** 
with *** being CFN, FLB, HIS, M_D, M_R, QTB, RND, SRB, and VCF (some of these 
might be obsolete). 
 
 In the directory pointed to by HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Ritlabs\The 
Bat!\Working Directory
 

Cheers,
Lüko Willms
Frankfurt am Main
Germany

using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA)
OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1)
CPU: AMD  amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+
MEM: 4097 MB 
'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html


Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Stuart Cuddy
Hello Marck,
Sunday, May 10, 2020, 11:37:35 AM, you wrote:

> A  good  question. That may be the issue - I will try "Stay logged in"
> as the setting if I can find it... which I can't...

Maybe try Account/Properties/Mail Management "When inactive disconnect after x 
seconds." Remove the checkmark

-- 
Best regards,
 Stuartmailto:skcu...@fastmail.fm



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Lüko Willms
Hello everybody,

on Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 at 18:37  Marck Pearlstone  
wrote
re Delay when creating new message

  

LW>>   Besides, for writing and sending a message, this goes via SMTP,
LW>> not IMAP4, just as also POP3 is only for receiving.

> Ah  -  you'd  have  thought  so.  Except...  the  outbound  message is
> originally  created in the Outbox IMAP folder as a draft message. Only
> the completed message will be sent via SMTP.

  I found the test message which I sent today in MESSAGES.TBB in OUTBOX 
directory of the IMAP account on my PC. But it is not visible from TheBat! 
  
  But no recent entry concerning IMAP in the ACCOUNT_LOG.TXT of that account. 
  
  I have set that IMAP account to connect to the IMAP server only when I 
explicitely ask to connect. 
  

Cheers,
Lüko Willms
Frankfurt am Main
Germany

using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA)
OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1)
CPU: AMD  amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+
MEM: 4097 MB 
'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html


9.1.18.5

2020-05-10 Thread Maxim Masiutin via TBBETA
The Bat! 9.1.18.5 (ALPHA) is available at
https://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/tb91185-32.rar
https://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/tb91185-64.rar

What's new in 9.1.18.5 since 9.1.18.4:
[*] Work in progress: replacing SpTBX toolbars to DevExpress toolbars in 
various windows, e.g. account and folder properties, print setup (templates 
tabs), Quick Templates, Address Book, etc.



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: 9.1.18.5 - removed

2020-05-10 Thread Ethan J. Mings
May 10, 2020

Hello Maxim,

Sunday, May 10, 2020, 2:50:58 PM, you wrote:

> We have removed 9.1.18.5 from downloads because it turned out to be not that 
> good to be released, sorry.

No worries.

I look forward to the next Beta.

Jerry

--  
Ethan J. Mings
President,
The Desk Consulting Group Inc.
Enabling your organization to anticipate the future with confidence!
1-200 North Service Road W. - Suite 311 | Oakville, Ontario, Canada. L6M 2Y1
Phone 905-825-9938 or 1-877-763-7776 | e-mail supportd...@thedesk.ca
Website https://thedesk.ca/main



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Delay when creating new message

2020-05-10 Thread Thomas Fernandez
Hello Marck,

On Sun, 10 May 2020 11:02:46 +0100 GMT (10-May-20, 17:02 +0700 GMT),
Marck Pearlstone wrote:

> Greetings Bat Fans,

> I  have  been  experiencing a 15 second delay between a message editor
> window  opening  (new message, reply or forward - all the same) during
> which the whole TB interface is frozen.

> This  has  become  a  source  of  extreme  frustration for me. Hitting
> "Reply" and typing your thoughts is a distant memory for me.

> Is anyone else seeing this strange behaviour?

> I'm  writing  here, but this has been true for me for a long time now,
> over  several  releases.  I  can't  even  remember  at what point this
> started.

I can confirm this for many versions, and it happens often. I do not
use GPG.

It happens to me when replying to large HTML mails. Large in the sense
of many replies. Convos can be back and forth for weeks, that's
nothing unusual. But it isn't the Reply-To header: When it takes too
long to open the editor, I just choose Plaintext in the editor, and
the replies (or the openig of the editor, rather) on the next messages
are fast again.

Many business partners have set their Outlook so that the replies are
always in HTML (they want to show their logo and corporate identity in
their emails), so after a while, the replies slow down again.

My normal setting is to reply to HTML mails in HTML (to not offend my
business partners by cutting out their corporate identity in all its
glory). I do believe that there is something in the HTML code that
caused the TB HTML editor to choke but I have not reported it because
I cannot put my finger on it. Does not happen will all business
partners' emails.

(As a remark with regards to another thread: I cannot ask the business
partners to change their settings. It also won't help to point out
that this problem means nothing because Outlook is only one of many
email clients.)

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit)
under Windows 10.0 Build 18362



'Using TBBETA' information:
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