Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Marck,

On Sun, 10 May 2020 09:52:20 +0100 GMT (10-May-20, 15:52 +0700 GMT),
Marck Pearlstone wrote:

AS>> Things that come to mind, in no particular order:

AS>> * Increase size limits for attachments.

> TBBETA has a 75kb limit and TBUDL 25kb.

> I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

Let's try this.

AS>> * Remove or, at very least, update "current version" footer.

> I  will  take  back  control  (where  have  I  heard  that before?) of
> maintenance for this number.

Thank you!

AS>> * Consider merging TDUDL/TBBETA into one.

> That's  a  very large "NO". There are 2 distinct audiences - those who
> test  new  features  and  those who want help with the current release
> version as end users.

I totally agree. Let's leave the lists separate.

AS>> * Collate available TheBat! documentation / FAQs / Tips.
AS>> * etc.

> That's  something  I did very enthusiastically back at the start. They
> have  not  been  maintained  and  over  the years have become somewhat
> dated.

It's a lot of work, and I believe Ritlabs can outsource it if tyhey
don't have the manpower. I do think it would help them increase sales,
so that will be money well spent for them. So, we can put it on the
wishlist.

Just MHO.

--


Cheers,
Thomas.

Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit)
under Windows 10.0 Build 18362



Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Backup with Errors

[Jernej Simončič]

On Saturday, May 9, 2020, 20:13:08, David Elliott wrote:

> Stream read error "E:\Users\Administrator\The
> Bat\Mail\Elliott\Inbox\MESSAGES.TBB" Data error (cyclic redundancy check)

Try copying (not moving) this file to another directory; if you're
successful, delete the original file, then move the copied file back.

If the copy isn't successful, it's likely that your disk is dying -
make a backup at OS level, and restore it to a new disk.

-- 
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< https://eternallybored.org/ >

Much work, much food; little work, little food; no work, burial at sea.
   -- Cook's Law



Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Gunivortus Goos]

Hello Maggie,

> When I look around and see everyone doing mail (poorly) on their
> iThings, I do wonder if we aren't all dinosaurs because we write
> in full sentences with a proper email program.

Yes, for me it is also long ago when I started with The Bat!
Actually, it is so long ago, I really don't remember anymore
which was my first version.
Still, being over 70, I don't really feel like a dinosaur. :-D
However, both on PC, notebook, tablet and phone I still try to write
full sentences instead of using those 'silly' abbreviations like yw,
tx, etc. Mmm... thinking that over, I might be a dinosaur after all.

-- 
Kind regards,
Gunivortus

The Bat! Professional 64 bit, version 9.1.18.3 (BETA)
Windows Pro 64 bit version 10, build nr. 18363
NordVPN vs. 6.27.11.0



Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Maggie Meister]

Hi Marck,

On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 4:52:20 AM you wrote:

MP> ... we have done this multiple times in the 20+ years that we have run
MP> these  lists.T

Thank you for everything, Marck - even the trouts. Looking back,
I can't believe it's more than 20 years, While it doesn't feel
like yesterday, I do remember version 1.3 I think it was,
somewhere in the 1990s.TB! is as fresh as it ever was, and the
list, while not as busy, has continued as orderly and polite.
When I look around and see everyone doing mail (poorly) on their
iThings, I do wonder if we aren't all dinosaurs because we write
in full sentences with a proper email program. Sorry for OT, but
not.


-- 

Best Regards,
Maggie  http://www.OurCabinOnTheCreek.com 


The only difference between fiction and real life is that fiction
has to make sense.


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re[2]: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Andrew Savchenko]

Hello MFPA,

Sunday, May 10, 2020, 9:49:05 PM, you wrote:

> Would that lead to more help for ordinary users' TB! issues? Or would
> their messages simply get lost among all the beta testers' messages?
> It would certainly be massively increased traffic compared to the
> current TBUDL, and most TBBETA traffic is likely not relevant to the
> needs of most current TBUDL users.

Fair point. I was looking at this from the viewpoint of current traffic
levels which are rather low.

> Why do they need their own domain?

They don't _need_ own domain, this is from the "improvement" category.

> They are perfectly fine where Marck currently hosts them at
> silverstones.com.

What if Marck is being hit by the car and server lease is not renewed?
Same goes for domain name, etc.

> And many mailing lists are perfectly fine at one of the mailing list
> hosts such as groups.io, etc.

groups.io:
- "your own domain" is a $200/month option.

Next?

> Silverstones.com does have HTTPS, with a self-signed certificate.

Which defies its purpose... How about LetsEncrypt that is free and easy
to deploy?

> I thought that had been done a few years back at something called The 
> Bat User Documentation Project (TBUDP) but I can't find a link at the 
> moment.

Good examples:
- Claws: https://www.claws-mail.org/faq/index.php/Main_Page
- Thunderbird: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird
   

-- 
Regards,
A



Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[MFPA]

Hi


On Sunday 10 May 2020 at 3:06:11 AM, in
, Andrew Savchenko wrote:-


> * Increase size limits for attachments.

Sounds sensible.


> * Remove or, at very least, update "current version"
> footer.

I would vote to keep a footer informing of the current version and 
linking to info about the other TB* mailing lists. I think the FAQ 
linked from that info page has not been updated since I first started 
using TB! over 15 years ago.


> * Consider merging TDUDL/TBBETA into one.

Would that lead to more help for ordinary users' TB! issues? Or would
their messages simply get lost among all the beta testers' messages?
It would certainly be massively increased traffic compared to the
current TBUDL, and most TBBETA traffic is likely not relevant to the
needs of most current TBUDL users.


> * Move mailing lists homepage to a separate domain.

Why do they need their own domain? They are perfectly fine where Marck
currently hosts them at silverstones.com. And many mailing lists are
perfectly fine at one of the mailing list hosts such as groups.io, 
etc.


> * Modernise lists website, enable HTTPs.

Silverstones.com does have HTTPS, with a self-signed certificate.


> * Collate available TheBat! documentation / FAQs / Tips.

I thought that had been done a few years back at something called The 
Bat User Documentation Project (TBUDP) but I can't find a link at the 
moment.


-- 
Best regards

MFPA  

A woman's mind is cleaner than a man's: She changes it more often.

Using The Bat! Version 8.8.2.5 (BETA) (64-bit) on Windows 10.0 Build 18362  



Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Marck Pearlstone]

On 10 May 2020 at 10:18 MAU wrote and made these points

>> I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

M> I can agree to that,

Done. Now to test attaching a small image...

To avoid extra confusion I will deliberately leave this post unsigned.

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply all quoting selected text

[MAU]

Hello Andrew,

> Here we go: https://i.imgur.com/YoFRdGV.png

Thank you.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (Zarzalejo (Madrid)- Spain)
Using The Bat! v9.1.18.3 (BETA)




Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[MAU]

Hello Marck,

> I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

I can agree to that,

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (Zarzalejo (Madrid)- Spain)
Using The Bat! v9.1.18.3 (BETA)




Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re[2]: Reply all quoting selected text

[Andrew Savchenko]

Hello Gunivortus,

Sunday, May 10, 2020, 5:16:43 PM, you wrote:

> I don't have that option between 'Reply to All' and 'Forward'.

I wonder why... Perhaps try messaging RitLabs support directly?
It is available by default.


-- 
Regards,
A



Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Marck Pearlstone]

On 10 May 2020 at 03:06 Andrew Savchenko wrote and made these points

AS> It is 2020 out there and TB mailing lists seem to be a little outdated.

AS> Screenshots being stripped from the messages unless it all fits in 25Kb,

In the case of TBUDL, this seems to be happening regardless of size. I
have  looked  but  the  settings don't specify to do that. The hosting
server  has  shifted twice since we started to use the current rack. I
am not necessarily confident that the settings have ported correctly.

AS> famous "Current version is 8.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information" footer
AS> attached to all messages... Perhaps it is time for a maintenance?

This  footer  used to be maintained by admins every time a new release
came  from RITlabs, often with a slight lag. Max asked to control this
automatically  and  this was being done for a while. Then they stopped
updating  it.  I guess it's down to me again. (I am the sole admin and
mod these days, everyone else having resigned from the list). Max took
it over because I was updating it when the MSI was released to TBBETA,
not  in  new the loop otherwise as to when a particular version became
the current release.

AS> Things that come to mind, in no particular order:

AS> * Increase size limits for attachments.

TBBETA has a 75kb limit and TBUDL 25kb.

I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

AS> * Remove or, at very least, update "current version" footer.

I  will  take  back  control  (where  have  I  heard  that before?) of
maintenance for this number.

AS> * Consider merging TDUDL/TBBETA into one.

That's  a  very large "NO". There are 2 distinct audiences - those who
test  new  features  and  those who want help with the current release
version as end users.

AS> * Move mailing lists homepage to a separate domain.

I don't know what this means...

AS> * Modernise lists website, enable HTTPs.

I  enabled  HTTPS  back in January. If anybody else wants to take this
over from me, go ahead - I will redirect.

AS> * Ensure lists historical data is available and easily exportable.

... we have done this multiple times in the 20+ years that we have run
these  lists.  The last massive move was to GMANE. They collapsed. Any
suggestions  as  to  where  we  should try next (and have our archives
dumped into the void when they go down too)?

AS> * Collate available TheBat! documentation / FAQs / Tips.
AS> * etc.

That's  something  I did very enthusiastically back at the start. They
have  not  been  maintained  and  over  the years have become somewhat
dated.

AS> Thoughts?

... given.

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

pgphG34G9Ozcu.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Current version is 8.1.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply all quoting selected text

[Gunivortus Goos]

Hello Andrew Savchenko,

> Here we go: https://i.imgur.com/YoFRdGV.png

I don't have that option between 'Reply to All' and 'Forward'.

-- 
Kind regards,
Gunivortus Goos

The Bat! Professional 64 bit, version 9.1.18.3 (BETA)
Windows Pro 64 bit version 10, build nr. 18363
NordVPN vs. 6.27.11.0



Current version is 8.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html