Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread Jens Franik

Freitag, 9. Januar 2009 at 01:48, MFPA wrote:

 If not read but just marked as read they are red not bold.

How  do  you manage to do that? I thought read as opened is the same
as read by CTRL-M.

-- 
With kind Regards
Jens Franik
mailto:je...@gmx.de
Picture of me? X-Rogue http://www.de2all.de/Kr_bat.jpg
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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MAU
Hello MFPA,

 It only changed the messages directly above the new one all the way up
 the thread. If the thread branched, those not above the new message
 didn't change.

I have never seen such a behaviour. The default behaviour, which has 
always (or AFAIR) been like that, is that an 'unread' (not marked as 
'read') message shows the Unread Flag and the text for whatever columns 
are displayed in the message list is bolded.

Now, about threads. A collapsed thread (or thread branch) containing
'Unread' (not marked as 'read') messages is shown bolded but with no
Unread Flag. When a bolded thread or thread branch is expanded, only
'unread' (not marked as 'read') messages will be bolded and will show
the Unread Flag.

 My default view is that unread messages are listed bold red on a black
 background (my unread messages colour group). When read they go
 white and not bold (messages I have read colour group). 

I think you are complicating things here with colour groups. How do you 
assign them? With filters? Manually?

 If not read but just marked as read they are red not bold.

This is a key issue I think. Why and how do you 'mark as read' a message
that you have NOT read?

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v4.1.9




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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread Jens Franik

Freitag, 9. Januar 2009 at 11:45, MAU wrote:

 Why and how do you 'mark as read' a message that you have NOT read?

I  do  this  too,  because  i  look  over  the subjects and if it is a
Flame-War  i  do  not  read  the  Messages, i will mark the Folder and
CTRL-M it all read without reading it.

-- 
With kind Regards
Jens Franik
mailto:je...@gmx.de
Picture of me? X-Rogue http://www.de2all.de/Kr_bat.jpg
The Bat! 4.1.9 mit AntiSpamSniper 3.1.0.5 und Gaijin XMP Makro Plugin 1.1.91.0
Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 2
AMD Athlon Dual Core 4850e 2,50 GHz, 4 GB RAM
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Re[2]: Leaving messages in inbox

2009-01-09 Thread Vili
JSL A long time ago there was a thread on the dangers of leaving messages
JSL in the inbox. Unfortunately I no longer remember exactly what the
JSL danger was. I searched the archives for the subject line above but
JSL found nothing explaining the problem. Does anybody remember?
RO Basically it comes to this.
RO The Inbox is a high traffic folder: every message that enters your
RO message base first arrives in the Inbox, moving and deleting
RO (automatically   and  manually)  means another mutation of your Inbox.
RO Due to these multiple mutations it's easy for things to go awry.
RO There's your first reason not to use the Inbox for permanent storage.
RO When  your  Inbox  is large it's more difficult to mutate it then when
RO it's  small,  so  using  the Inbox for permanent storage makes it more
RO likely for things to go awry.
RO Of course executing compress and purge daily minimises the chance that
RO things go bad.
RO I've  never had a corrupt Inbox, so I've never been bitten, but in the
RO past  the  issue  came up regularly. But why use a mail client with an
RO extensive  filtering  engine  like TB when you store everything in the
RO Inbox.

I  totally  agree with every word Roelof wrote. My addition: the only way I
saw  corrupted  Inboxes  (I  am a TB distributor) that people used the
Compress at exit. When I send the registration keys to users, this is
the information (in brief) I send them in the text of the mail before
the actual reg. code:

- switch off the Compress at exit forj all Inboxes, this is how you can
do it

- make manual compress of Inboxes at every two weeks, a month, based
on your email load

(I compress my folders every Sunday)

Vili
--
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www.macasoft.hu

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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MAU
Hello Jens,

 Why and how do you 'mark as read' a message that you have NOT read?

 I  do  this  too,  because  i  look  over  the subjects and if it is a
 Flame-War  i  do  not  read  the  Messages, i will mark the Folder and
 CTRL-M it all read without reading it.

Of course, we all do that I think. I don't actually read everything I
get from mailing lists or newsgroups. I even 'Ignore' complete threads 
or branches so that any future messages will not bother me. 

But, if you read things in context:

 If not read but just marked as read they are red not bold.

 This is a key issue I think. Why and how do you 'mark as read' a
 message that you have NOT read?

I may be wrong but I think MFPA is trying to make a distinction between
messages that he has actually read and those only 'marked as read' and
that he may want to actually read later, or not.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v4.1.9




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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread Jens Franik

Freitag, 9. Januar 2009 at 12:49, MAU wrote:

 If not read but just marked as read they are red not bold.

 This is a key issue I think. Why and how do you 'mark as read' a
 message that you have NOT read?

 I may be wrong but I think MFPA is trying to make a distinction between
 messages that he has actually read and those only 'marked as read' and
 that he may want to actually read later, or not.

Thats  what  i  did  not understand too, maybe a colorgroup stands for
read   that   later,  or  something  we  will  never  guess  without
explanation, so let us drink some coffe first...

:batcoffee:

-- 
With kind Regards
Jens Franik
mailto:je...@gmx.de
Picture of me? X-Rogue http://www.de2all.de/Kr_bat.jpg
The Bat! 4.1.9 mit AntiSpamSniper 3.1.0.5 und Gaijin XMP Makro Plugin 1.1.91.0
Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 2
AMD Athlon Dual Core 4850e 2,50 GHz, 4 GB RAM
7 POP3 Accounts - 120 Folders



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Re: Server certificate expired

2009-01-09 Thread simbabque
Hello Jernej,

Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 7:32:28 PM, Jernej Simončič wrote:

 If you're the server admin, you have to replace the certificate on the
 server. Otherwise, you need to notify the server administrator to do
 it.

Thanks for the reply. That's what I did eventually. The admin was busy
fighting a virus and forgot. There's no antivir against old common
flu... ;)

Regards,

-- 
Using The Bat! v4.0.34 on Windows XP 5.1 Build  2600
Service Pack 2



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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MFPA
Hi

On Friday 9 January 2009 at 10:45:44 AM, in
mid:1117674885.20090109114...@rancho-k.com, MAU wrote:


 I have never seen such a behaviour.

Well it has always been the behaviour I have experienced in TB! until
very recently.

 The default behaviour, which has always (or AFAIR) been like that,
 is that an 'unread' (not marked as 'read') message shows the Unread
 Flag and the text for whatever columns are displayed in the message
 list is bolded.

That is my experience too, although I have added colour groups to make
it leap out at me without having to concentrate on looking at the
flags.

It also allows me to distinguish between a message I have never read
and one I have marked as unread because I need to attend to it some
other time non-urgently, for example. (see also description below)

 Now, about threads. A collapsed thread (or thread
 branch) containing 'Unread' (not marked as 'read')
 messages is shown bolded but with no Unread Flag.

I experience the bold text here, too. I cannot comment on the flags as
I didn't get on with them as a visual aid, so I use colour groups. The
read message at the top of the collapsed thread is white, as per my
messages I have read colour group but is bold.

 When a bolded thread or thread branch is expanded, only 'unread'
 (not marked as 'read') messages will be bolded and will show the
 Unread Flag.

That differs from the behaviour I have always had until recently.
Here, all the way from the top of the thread has been shown bold until
recently. But only the new messages are in my unread colour group
and therefore red. These red ones are still bold but the old messages
no longer turn bold in this situation.

 I think you are complicating things here with colour
 groups.

Each to their own. I find it enhances my user experience of TB!,
unfortunately this recent change detracts from that user experience.

 How do you assign them? With filters? Manually?

The colour scheme for my generic group is the same as my unread
messages colour group, so all messages automatically look that way to
begin with. (Before anybody asks, the only real use for my colour
group called unread messages is that on the odd occasion when I want
to manually re-assign a message to that colour scheme I cannot usually
remember that I need to choose generic group)

Once I read a message (display it for a few seconds) a Read messages
filter sets the colour group to messages I have read. If I didn't
want that, I manually change the colour group back.

 If not read but just marked as read they are red not
 bold.

 This is a key issue I think. Why and how do you 'mark
 as read' a message that you have NOT read?

If I have no current interest in a discussion, I may select the whole
(or part of the) thread andchoose mark as read from the context
menu. This dismisses the bold text but does not change the colour
group, so I know instantly when looking at the message list that I did
not actually read those messages and may wish to another time.

My colour scheme has been:-

   1. White, not bold = has been read, nothing new below

   2. White and bold = has been read, new message in thread

   3. Red, not bold = not read, not interested at moment, nothing new
   below

   4. Red and Bold = new message (or was a 3. and now has a new
   message in thread, which may cause me to re-evaluate my interest)


This recent change has wrecked 2. and the bracketed part of 4.


-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

Always borrow money from a pessimist - they don't expect it back

Using The Bat! v4.0.38 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600  



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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MFPA
Hi

On Friday 9 January 2009 at 11:29:35 AM, in
mid:143583429.20090109122...@gmx.de, Jens Franik wrote:



 Freitag, 9. Januar 2009 at 11:45, MAU wrote:

 Why and how do you 'mark as read' a message that you
 have NOT read?

 I  do  this  too,  because  i  look  over  the subjects
 and if it is a Flame-War  i  do  not  read  the
 Messages, i will mark the Folder and CTRL-M it all read
 without reading it.

Same as I achieve by selecting a chunk of messages in the folder and
using the context menu to mark as read.

Or I could be marking an individual message that I may come back to
later.

-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

Roses smell better than onions but don't make such good soup

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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MFPA
Hi

On Friday 9 January 2009 at 11:49:56 AM, in
mid:1498077832.20090109124...@rancho-k.com, MAU wrote:


 I don't actually read everything I get from mailing lists or
 newsgroups. I even 'Ignore' complete threads or branches so that any
 future messages will not bother me.

How do you achieve that and what does it do?



 I may be wrong but I think MFPA is trying to make a
 distinction between messages that he has actually read
 and those only 'marked as read' and that he may want to
 actually read later, or not.

Precisely. Colour groups work well for me in doing this.



-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

Don't anthropomorphize computers - they hate it

Using The Bat! v4.0.38 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600  



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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MFPA
Hi

On Friday 9 January 2009 at 11:58:33 AM, in
mid:1029693046.20090109125...@gmx.de, Jens Franik wrote:



 maybe a colorgroup stands for read that later, or something we
 will never guess without explanation, so let us drink some coffe
 first...

 :batcoffee:

Aw! I missed the coffee.


It has grown to mean something like didn't read, was not interested
or was too busy at time. might read later. Not dismissed as junk.
Believe it merits more than simply deleting or archiving but probably
not urgent.

Adjust that as appropriate if looking at mailing list messages.



-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

Don't ask me, I'm making this up as I go!

Using The Bat! v4.0.38 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600  



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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MFPA
Hi

On Friday 9 January 2009 at 8:44:05 AM, in
mid:593253693.20090109094...@gmx.de, Jens Franik wrote:



 Freitag, 9. Januar 2009 at 01:48, MFPA wrote:

 If not read but just marked as read they are red not
 bold.

 How  do  you manage to do that? I thought read as
 opened is the same as read by CTRL-M.


I usually read in the preview pane. Any message displayed for 2
seconds triggers a filter that assigns it to my messages I have read
colour group, where a read message is white and not bold. CTRL-M (or
context menu/ mark as read) does not change the colour group.


-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do

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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MFPA
Hi

On Friday 9 January 2009 at 1:39:58 AM, in
mid:1041730292.20090108203...@gmail.com, Rick wrote:


 Are we perhaps talking about in a collapsed tree
 branch? If so then I never noticed. It would have to
 highlight to let you know there was an unread message
 in the branch (?)


No we are not, although a collapsed branch is still displayed that
way.


-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much

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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MFPA
Hi

On Friday 9 January 2009 at 12:48:00 AM, in
mid:1801542263.20090109004...@my_localhost, MFPA wrote:


 I think this changed when I upgraded from v4.0.32.4 to
 v4.0.38 but it may have been a slightly earlier
 upgrade.


It was indeed a slightly earlier upgrade (-;

I have just tested with some old versions and found the behaviour I
describe occurs in versions 2.12.00 and 3.0.1.33 but not in 3.80.03,
3.80.06 and 4.0.32.4.

If it took over two years to notice, maybe I shouldn't worry about it.
But I still say the old way was better.

-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

Was time invented by an Irishman named O'Clock?

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Folders and subfolders

2009-01-09 Thread Jason Gottschalk
Hello Tbudl,

  Which Account.* file keeps track of the folders and subfolder? I'd like to 
try deleting it and seeing if it will rebuild and find all of my folders.

-- 
Best Regards
Jason Gottschalk
ja...@syo.com

SYO Computer Services and SYO Biometrics
ph:586-286-2557
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Re: Folders and subfolders

2009-01-09 Thread Roelof Otten
Hallo Jason,

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:12:26 -0500GMT (9-1-2009, 23:12 +0100, where I
live), you wrote:

JG   Which Account.* file keeps track of the folders and subfolder?
JG I'd like to try deleting it and seeing if it will rebuild and find all of 
my folders.

account.flb
Be careful with your experiments...

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof

No one can think clearly with clenched fists.
http://www.voormijalleen.nl/
The Bat! 4.1.9
Windows Vista 6.0 Build 6001 Service Pack 1
3 pop3 accounts
OTFE enabled
Quad Core 2.4GHz
4 GB RAM

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Description: PGP signature

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Re: Folders and subfolders

2009-01-09 Thread Marek Mikus
Hello all,
Friday, January 9, 2009, Jason Gottschalk wrote:

   Which Account.* file keeps track of the folders and subfolder? I'd
 like to try deleting it and seeing if it will rebuild and find all of my 
 folders.

files ACCOUNT.FLB and ACCOUNT.~FLB

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 4.1.9
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, AntispamSniper v 3.1.0.5
Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 4 GB RAM


 




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Re: Moving Account QTs to COmmon QTs

2009-01-09 Thread MFPA
Hi

On Friday 9 January 2009 at 1:50:21 AM, in
mid:1039620530.20090109085...@gmail.com, tracer wrote:


 Hello MFPA,

 Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:29:38 AM, you wrote:

 Hi

 On Thursday 8 January 2009 at 10:52:04 PM, in
 mid:295980760.20090109095...@wai.com.au, Ian A.
 White wrote:

 I just checked my account folders and they QTB files
 I deleted have  not been re-created. The QT editor
 also shows all accounts as having  no QTs.

 Hmm. I just tried again and if I delete (or rename)
 the account.qtb files in the accounts, the files are
 still re-created and the QTs reappear in those
 accounts. Keeping an empty text file called
 account.qtb in the account folders does the trick but
 I am damned if I can find where the QTs are backed up.
 This is as irritating as windows file protection.

 Do a search on QTB and see if finds them...

Search (including hidden and system) only finds 3 QTB files: the one
in my Mail ditectory for the common QTs and the ones I'm trying to
delete in the account directories for the two accounts that had QTs.
They must be backed up in some file other than QTB. Maybe QTN?

-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

Teamwork is essential - it allows you to blame someone else

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Re: Moving Account QTs to COmmon QTs

2009-01-09 Thread Marek Mikus
Hello all,
Saturday, January 10, 2009, MFPA wrote:

 Do a search on QTB and see if finds them...

 Search (including hidden and system) only finds 3 QTB files: the one
 in my Mail ditectory for the common QTs and the ones I'm trying to
 delete in the account directories for the two accounts that had QTs.
 They must be backed up in some file other than QTB. Maybe QTN?

account.qtn is old format used for storing QTs, qtb is a new one.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 4.1.9
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, AntispamSniper v 3.1.0.5
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Re: Moving Account QTs to COmmon QTs

2009-01-09 Thread MFPA
Hi

On Friday 9 January 2009 at 11:51:50 PM, in
mid:1637487727.20090110005...@ipex.cz, Marek Mikus wrote:



 account.qtn is old format used for storing QTs, qtb is
 a new one.


That was it! I deleted the QTN files as well as the QTB files and they
stay gone. So it was the QTN files that kept making the QTN files
reappear.


-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

The One with The Answer is seldom asked The Question

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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MAU
Hello MFPA,

 I have never seen such a behaviour.

 Well it has always been the behaviour I have experienced in TB! until
 very recently.

After reading your mid:988919550.20090109220...@my_localhost I think 
you should redefine what you mean by 'always' and 'recently'. ;-)

 I think you are complicating things here with colour groups.

 Each to their own.

Your are right. You should use what you like or suits you best.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v4.1.9




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Re: New message at bottom of thread no longer makes messages above it appear unread

2009-01-09 Thread MAU
Hello MFPA,

 I don't actually read everything I get from mailing lists or
 newsgroups. I even 'Ignore' complete threads or branches so that any
 future messages will not bother me.

 How do you achieve that and what does it do?

I use two different ways, one with and 'Ignore' filter and the other one 
with an 'Ignore' Watch Folder. But neither of them is perfect. I'll give 
you more details tomorrow, it's past 2 AM and I'd like to get some sleep 
now.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v4.1.9




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Re[2]: Moving Account QTs to COmmon QTs

2009-01-09 Thread tracer
Hello MFPA,

Saturday, January 10, 2009, 6:41:37 AM, you wrote:


 Do a search on QTB and see if finds them...

 Search (including hidden and system) only finds 3 QTB files: the one
 in my Mail ditectory for the common QTs and the ones I'm trying to
 delete in the account directories for the two accounts that had QTs.
 They must be backed up in some file other than QTB. Maybe QTN?

Normally what will help, assuming the programmers don't put stuff like
that in the registry, do a search for *.* in the bat program file
directory.
Or essentially whatever program has files 'missing'
Do note that some programs have 2 places where they put files, in
Documents in settings there is another directory being used...


-- 
Best regards,
 tracermailto:0tra...@gmail.com



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