Re[2]: Fastmail, IMAP and The Bat! 2.0
Hello Keith, Wednesday, September 3, 2003, 12:37:04 AM, you wrote: KR This showed INBOX with a + sign next to it. KR Clicking the + sign brings up the default Drafts / Sent items / Trash KR _under_ the Inbox folder. Silly of me, but I missed that + sign Thanks. I did the same thing initially. I now have that part done, but I cannot get The Bat! to use the IMAP based Sent Items and Trash folders. Jeff -- Jeffrey A. Shumway Using The Bat! v2.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Fastmail, IMAP and The Bat! 2.0
Hello tbudl, Is anyone else using Fastmail with The Bat! 2.0? I am curious about how you have set the IMAP Options for Root Folder and the pre-defined folders. I have tried many different combinations and cannot get The Bat! to use the Sent Items and Trash folders on Fastmail. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Jeff -- Jeffrey A. Shumway Using The Bat! v2.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Fastmail, IMAP and The Bat! 2.0
Hello Jeffrey, Tuesday, September 2, 2003, 10:10:45 PM, you wrote: JAS Is anyone else using Fastmail with The Bat! 2.0? I am curious about JAS how you have set the IMAP Options for Root Folder and the pre-defined JAS folders. I have tried many different combinations and cannot get The JAS Bat! to use the Sent Items and Trash folders on Fastmail. Jeff I was struggling with this myself when your message came in. I'm not sure if I've done it right, but what I ended up doing was to select Alt-F7 to manage accounts. This showed INBOX with a + sign next to it. Clicking the + sign brings up the default Drafts / Sent items / Trash _under_ the Inbox folder. Silly of me, but I missed that + sign for a while and kept trying to create the other folders manually. I was able to move messages from the Inbox to Inbox/Trash successfully, once the sync settings were done properly. I haven't got any other folders set up in my Fastmail account, either on the server or locally, so this may or may not be what you need. Let me know what else you find out! Regards Keith Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
RE: The Bat! 2.0 Beta test and reviewing
Gentlemen... With out combined 33+ years in the industry, Beta and field testing since 1984, and our ability to research, edit and produce articles for worldwide and localized readers (newspapers, Web news and information sites), may we be able to apply for Beta testing and product review privileges on the long-rumored The Bat 2.0 version? Beta testing now, and of course, we would be happy to work with you to properly time articles and reviews, and our recommendations. Although we are happy to detail what may be needed in Email, our main Web site is at www.windowgroup.com [details are at www.windowgroup.com/wg ], and we are also quite experienced in performing to both simple trust agreements and/or non-disclosure agreements as is necessary. Looking forward to your reply, Warmest regards Joe Rotello Founder Joe Rotello / Founder / WindowGroup / Kodak, TN / USA / Voice: (865) 932-0041, ICQ 1509199 / Since 1970 Technology Translators / Trainers / Consultants / Electronic Publishers / Web and Video Publications / WWW.MHUSER.COM / www.windowgroup.com Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.0 Beta test and reviewing
Hello Joe, On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:35:10 -0400 GMT (25/08/2003, 21:35 +0700 GMT), Joe Rotello wrote: With out combined 33+ years in the industry, Beta and field testing since 1984, and our ability to research, edit and produce articles for worldwide and localized readers (newspapers, Web news and information sites), may we be able to apply for Beta testing and product review privileges on the long-rumored The Bat 2.0 version? This one is easy. Two steps are required: 1.) Download the current beta from ftp://ftp.ritlabs.com/pub/the_bat/beta If you want a full changelog since the last release version, you want to download all the .txt files pertaining to 1.63 and 2.0 versions. We are now at 2.0 beta 4. 2.) Subscribe to the beta list. You can do this by sending a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and putting subscribe (without quotes) into the subject. TB betas are open to anybody. Bugs found should be reported to www.ritlabs.com/bt after being described on the beta list and confirmed by another beta tester. Although we are happy to detail what may be needed in Email, our main Web site is at www.windowgroup.com [details are at www.windowgroup.com/wg ], and we are also quite experienced in performing to both simple trust agreements and/or non-disclosure agreements as is necessary. I believe your participation in the beta cycle will be an enrichment for The Bat. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. In an office: AFTER TEA BREAK STAFF SHOULD EMPTY THE TEAPOT AND STAND UPSIDE DOWN ON THE DRAINING BOARD Message reply created with The Bat! 2.0 Beta/4 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re:The Bat! 2.0 Beta test and reviewing
JR With out combined 33+ years in the industry, Well, would YOU trust a company that can't even check its own sales pitch for literals? -- regards Clive Taylor Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 2.0 Beta test and reviewing
Hello Clive, Monday, August 25, 2003, 6:01:44 PM, you wrote: JR With out combined 33+ years in the industry, CT Well, would YOU trust a company that can't even check its own sales CT pitch for literals? Yes I would. But that's not the point. I've been using TB! for ~5 years now (is it really that long?), I started with version 1.1x. Anyway, I've been waiting for years for this to come out and I nearly missed it due to my mail connection going down for a long time. Where can I sign up for this beta? Or is it too late. I don't want to wait until Sep 1, I want to see it now. Oh well, looks like part of my student loan is going to RitLabs. There's no way I'm going to be able to sleep tonight now. -- Jamie Dainton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: The Bat! 2.0 Beta test and reviewing
It seems that Jamie Dainton said ... J Where can I sign up for this beta? Or is it too late. I don't want to J wait until Sep 1, I want to see it now. Oh well, looks like part of my J student loan is going to RitLabs. I was going to wait, too, but I had the misfortune to see the URL for the beta today (ftp://ftp.ritlabs.com/pub/the_bat/beta/) and went there. This is the kind of new version I like: EVERYTHING looks familiar, it works the way I expect it to work, and poking around through the menus reveals some neat new features. -- Bill Blinn Technology Editor ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - 8/25/2003 at 1:34 PM Technology Editor, Newsradio 610 WTVN, Columbus, Ohio Using The Bat! v2.0 Beta/4 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Random thought: In combat, never forget that your weapon was manufactured by the lowest bidder. Featured speaker at PowerPoint Live - Tucson, Arizona October 12-15, 2003 - http://www.pptlive.com/ Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: The Bat! 2.0 Beta test and reviewing
Hello Bill, Monday, August 25, 2003, 6:37:38 PM, you wrote: BBTE I was going to wait, too, but I had the misfortune to see the URL for BBTE the beta today (ftp://ftp.ritlabs.com/pub/the_bat/beta/) and went BBTE there. This is the kind of new version I like: EVERYTHING looks BBTE familiar, it works the way I expect it to work, and poking around BBTE through the menus reveals some neat new features. Yay. It's downloaded and isntalled. I was hoping it might loko a little snazier but really I have no idea what I was expecting. I've lost the address of the beta list, could somebody point me in teh right direction as I have many questions about V2. -- Jamie Dainton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.0 Beta test and reviewing
Hello Jamie, On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:56:54 +0100 GMT (26/08/2003, 00:56 +0700 GMT), Jamie Dainton wrote: I've lost the address of the beta list, could somebody point me in teh right direction as I have many questions about V2. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - put subscribe (no quotes) in the subject field. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. SYMPTOM: Feet cold and wet. FAULT: Glass being held at incorrect angle. ACTION: Rotate glass so that open end points toward the ceiling. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.0 Beta/4 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.0 Beta test and reviewing
Hello Jamie! On Monday, August 25, 2003, 12:56 PM, you wrote, in part: J ... lost the address of the beta list, could somebody point me in teh J right direction as I have many questions about V2. Go here: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html Scroll down to the bottom of the page. There's a button for subscribing to TBBETA. It creates a subscribe e-mail for you to send. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.0 Beta test and reviewing
Hello Jamie! On Monday, August 25, 2003, 12:56 PM, you wrote: J ... could somebody point me in teh J right direction [for TBBETA] ... Sorry, I miswrote on my message just now: it's not a button but a link at the very bottom of the page at http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello Allie, On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:26:50 -0500 GMT (19/06/02, 05:26 +0700 GMT), Allie C Martin wrote: ACM The developers can't be expected to create a nice little button for ACM each of the useful things achieved by end user construction of complex ACM macros??? OK then, let this be a suggestion for a plug-in someone might want to write once it's possible. ACM Can you tweak the nice little button or can you tweak the macro ACM itself, which brings you right back to square one. The macro is always in English. A drop-down menu will be localised. TF You would still be able to see the macro as created by hitting the TF button. ACM You hit a menu selection and the macro appeared in plain text. What ACM makes it harder to understand or do than hitting a button? If the button is in your mother tongue, and you are not fluent in English compu-speak, it is indeed easier to understand. OK, in English it would be stupid to have a button for Insert TO address instead of just typing %TO=. How about French or German? Empfaengeradresse eingeben, and then you just fill in the address. While many non-English speakers may understand TO, there is such an abundant number of macros that I have no problem imagining that not all are that easily understandable. ACM Example not good. g I see your point but I don't see where it's ACM needed here. OK. Pre-written regexes may not be needed, but would be a nice addition for people who would like to use some of them. Again, an issue for a plug-in writer rather than the developers, I guess. ACM I think what has happened is that the list is so mature, that regex ACM macros are being spoken of and passed around as if it's a trivial ACM matter to create them and that everyone should be able to do it with ACM little effort, and if this isn't so, then blame the interface. I ACM simply cannot agree with that. I almost completely agree with you, except for the part blame the interface. I don't think this is what is being done; I think a suggestion for additional menus has been made. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. 111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321 Message reply created with The Bat! 1.60q under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
The Bat! 2.0
Bonjour, I have use and tried The Bat! for some times now, and I must say that my feelings are mixed regarding this e-mail client. The program is buggy, no doubt about that. Sometimes crashes, some functions behave bizarrement. Cannot use PGP 7.xx plus... But, on the other hand, you have some strong features like filtering and Templates. But then, you must have a master's degree just to learn those damn Regex machin choses. So here I am at the crossroads, should I go back to Outlook or should I wait for The Bat! 2.0? My wish list would include, for a good The Bat! client, these features: 1. Totally revamped interface (GUI). Skinable preferably, since this one is so ugly. 2. Macros and Template creations should be done without a single % sign ;-) That is, I would like to see check boxes, drop down menus, options, clickable buttons, etc. Even though these things (http://www.ginkyo.org/contenu/pages/TheBat/thebat_macros.htm) are powerful when properly configured, they nonetheless are ridiculous when you think about a large non-geek audience. 3. Stability! Of course, when my computer reboots, when I lose messages and attachments, this is no fun at all. So, if someone can answer this question, I will have a clear idea as what to do: Will The Bat! 2.0 be out some day? -- Cordialement, --pb [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 100119373 Version PGP: 6.5.8, clé publique 0xCF61FFC3. Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re:The Bat! 2.0
= En réponse à un précédent message Bonjour --pb, p Bonjour, p I have use and tried The Bat! for some times now, and I must say p that my feelings are mixed regarding this e-mail client. The p program is buggy, no doubt about that. Sometimes crashes, some p functions behave bizarrement. Cannot use PGP 7.xx plus... But, p on the other hand, you have some strong features like filtering p and Templates. But then, you must have a master's degree just to p learn those damn Regex machin choses. p So here I am at the crossroads, should I go back to Outlook or p should I wait for The Bat! 2.0? p My wish list would include, for a good The Bat! client, these p features: p 1. Totally revamped interface (GUI). Skinable preferably, since p this one is so ugly. p 2. Macros and Template creations should be done without a single p % sign ;-) That is, I would like to see check boxes, drop down p menus, options, clickable buttons, etc. Even though these things p (http://www.ginkyo.org/contenu/pages/TheBat/thebat_macros.htm) p are powerful when properly configured, they nonetheless are p ridiculous when you think about a large non-geek audience. p 3. Stability! Of course, when my computer reboots, when I lose p messages and attachments, this is no fun at all. p So, if someone can answer this question, I will have a clear idea p as what to do: p Will The Bat! 2.0 be out some day? -- Cordialement, --pb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, 1:50:11 PM, --pb wrote: p I have use and tried The Bat! for some times now, and I must say p that my feelings are mixed regarding this e-mail client. The p program is buggy, no doubt about that. Sometimes crashes, some p functions behave bizarrement. Cannot use PGP 7.xx plus... Just curious what kind of system are you on? I have problems with all kinds of other software but The Bat has one of the most stable programs I've ever used. I run it on win98 at home and win2K at work and haven't had one single glitch whatsoever. (Currently using 1.60q) -- Rick mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Any man, in the right situation, is capable of murder. But not any man is capable of being a good camper. So, murder and camping are not as similar as you might think. -Jack Handey Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello --pb, 18. junij 2002, 19:50:11, you wrote: p I have use and tried The Bat! for some times now, and I must say p that my feelings are mixed regarding this e-mail client. The p program is buggy, no doubt about that. Sometimes crashes, some p functions behave bizarrement. Cannot use PGP 7.xx plus... But, on p the other hand, you have some strong features like filtering and p Templates. But then, you must have a master's degree just to learn p those damn Regex machin choses. The Bat is far less buggy than any other mailer I tested... p 1. Totally revamped interface (GUI). Skinable preferably, since p this one is so ugly. Anything but skins. Skins have nothing to do in programs for everyday use - they just clutter the interface, slow down program, make everything much harder to use and are a great source for bugs. p 2. Macros and Template creations should be done without a single % p sign ;-) That is, I would like to see check boxes, drop down menus, p options, clickable buttons, etc. Even though these things p (http://www.ginkyo.org/contenu/pages/TheBat/thebat_macros.htm) are p powerful when properly configured, they nonetheless are ridiculous p when you think about a large non-geek audience. The Bat is is primary meant for advanced users. And believe me, it's much easier (and faster) to create a template using a few %macros than it would be through any GUI (ever tried to create a template in Word?). BTW: you can access all macros by clicking the [Macros] button below the template edit box. p 3. Stability! Of course, when my computer reboots, when I lose p messages and attachments, this is no fun at all. I had my windows lock up quite often while The Bat was running, but I never lost one message. Also, I never had The Bat itself lock up. I lost a few messages only once, when I didn't take care to clean my HD, and I ran out of space - The Bat deleted all old messages in one folder and only kept the new. However I create backups regularly, and that was the only occasion I actually needed restore. p Will The Bat! 2.0 be out some day? I've heard somewhere that the first betas will be available at the end of August. -- Jernej Simoncic, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/ ICQ: 26266467 [The Bat! v1.60d on Windows 2000 5.0.2195.Service Pack 2] The first myth of management is that it exists. The second myth of management is that success equals skill. -- Heller's Myths of Management Nobody really knows what is going on anywhere within your organization. -- Johnson's Corollary Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re:The Bat! 2.0
= En réponse à un précédent message Bonjour Rick, RR Just curious what kind of system are you on? Windows XP RR I run it on win98 at home and win2K at work and haven't had one single glitch RR whatsoever. Not a single glitch!? Are you sure you are not running a UNIX machine? ;-) But then, I use many programs, sometimes all at the same time: graphics apps, anti-virus with permanent protection (Panda Software), Trillan, in a small home network... who knows what the problems are... But, yes, The Bat! crashes when, for instance, I try to change the location of the mail folder, when I try to move folders and messages from one account to the other. -- Cordialement, --pb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re:The Bat! 2.0
Bonjour Jernej, JS The Bat is is primary meant for advanced users. And believe me, it's JS much easier (and faster) to create a template using a few %macros than JS it would be through any GUI (ever tried to create a template in JS Word?). BTW: you can access all macros by clicking the [Macros] button JS below the template edit box. I know that it is meant for advanced users, but if you want (not you of course but the creators/editors of The Bat!) to make a few bucks out of this program, you have to have a large audience. And regarding the Macros button, I couldn't agree more if I were an anglophone. But I have to tweak like hell those codes just to have a simple French date line that goes like Mardi, le 18 juin 2002 à 14h37. Of course, I would never be able to do that without the help of some power users. This is why I say that it is too complicated. There must be a way to implement simple yet powerful features with check boxes. I am no programmer, but I am sure that the solution is out there for anyone with a bit of imagination. -- Cordialement, --pb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello --pb, On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:50:11 -0400 GMT (19/06/02, 00:50 +0700 GMT), --pb wrote: p I have use and tried The Bat! for some times now, and I must say p that my feelings are mixed regarding this e-mail client. The p program is buggy, no doubt about that. It has some minor bugs that are over-advertised, IMHO. I do not know a single piece of software that does not have any bugs. But TB is the only piece of software that I know where there is a real communication with the developers, they listen, they fix the bugs, and they implement our wishes. p Sometimes crashes, Not here, but I don't doubt that on some systems it does. Would you care to describe the circumstances under which you experience this? p some functions behave bizarrement. I don't understand this. Which functions do you find bizarre, and why? p Cannot use PGP 7.xx plus... If you could just forward a copy of the source code, the plugin will be written, I am sure. p But, on the other hand, you have some strong features like p filtering and Templates. But then, you must have a master's degree p just to learn those damn Regex machin choses. But you don't need them. If you do know how to use RegEx, TB is a very powerful tool for the advanced user - even seasoned programmers love it. If you don't know RegEx, you still have a filtering system that is far better than any other client I know. the only RegExes I use are the ones I have copied from the FAQ site. I do not claim to fully understand them. But I do claim that what they do is pure luxury. Do you know of another client that could create the time line (as I like to call it) at the beginning of this reply? p So here I am at the crossroads, should I go back to Outlook or p should I wait for The Bat! 2.0? I have converted a few people from Outlook to TB for the single reason that MS declares its bugs and security holes as features. The Klez virus, to name just one example, would be stillborn if not so many people used Outlook. I had an email exchange with Trend Antivirus when their newsletter still said this virus propagates itself automatically by email programs. As most viruses do need OL/OE, they have since changed the text accrdingly. If you do want to compromise your system by default and install OL, that's up to you. But kindly ensure that my email address is nowhere on your system. ;-) p My wish list would include, for a good The Bat! client, these p features: p 1. Totally revamped interface (GUI). Skinable preferably, since p this one is so ugly. Ugliness (as is beauty) is in the eye of the beholder. With TB being a tool for people who like functionality rather than colourful clickable interfaces, I believe there has been limited priority on the GUI. However, if you want to come up with some creative ideas, I would suggest you contact Ritlabs directly. p 2. Macros and Template creations should be done without a single p % sign ;-) That is, I would like to see check boxes, drop down p menus, options, clickable buttons, etc. Even though these things p (http://www.ginkyo.org/contenu/pages/TheBat/thebat_macros.htm) p are powerful when properly configured, they nonetheless are p ridiculous when you think about a large non-geek audience. Right. A non-geek autdience would probably not have any use for the functionality of that template, though. But I do like the idea of adding a GUI version for macro usage, in addition to the current version (which programmers like). Have you already added it to the wishlist? By the way, hearing your critisism, which client are you talking about that offers this particular functionality for a non-geek audience? p 3. Stability! Of course, when my computer reboots, when I lose p messages and attachments, this is no fun at all. Well, I cannot comment on that. TB has been running stable over here since version 1.34, so I wonder what problem the with your system is. Would you care to elaborate? p So, if someone can answer this question, I will have a clear idea p as what to do: p Will The Bat! 2.0 be out some day? Here is the answer: Yes. ;-) But I personally don't care about version numbers. Would it have satisfied you had they called this current version 2.0? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. 111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321 Message reply created with The Bat! 1.60q under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello --pb, On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:40:43 -0400 GMT (19/06/02, 01:40 +0700 GMT), --pb wrote: p I know that it is meant for advanced users, but if you want (not you p of course but the creators/editors of The Bat!) to make a few bucks p out of this program, you have to have a large audience. I am not so sure about the economic truth of your statement. If they target the masses, they would have to compete with freeware products - whereas TB now is a powertool for users you appreciate it - and are willing to share a few bucks for it. p There must be a way to implement simple yet powerful features with p check boxes. I am no programmer, but I am sure that the solution is p out there for anyone with a bit of imagination. I agree with that. It is possible. It is a wish for a future version. @Jernej: I mean this - a localisable GUI that places the marcos into the templates - as an addition to the way advanced users like it (namely the way it is), not as a replacement. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.60q under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Salutation --pb On 18 June 2002 at 14:40:43 -0400 (which was 19:40 where I live) --pb graced us with these comments but if you want to make a few bucks out of this program, you have to have a large audience. That is called 'dumming it down'. - -- Cheers, ___ David | SecureBat!1.60q | E-mailaholics | _| Win 2K Server 5.0.2195 SP2 | International | | Your mama is so fat,i had to walk around her and got lost | ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7a-nr1 (Windows 2000) iD8DBQE9D4PH+Yrx5mUPRTQRAr03AJ9chW5RvsOrIGzwPa4GsidvcHv5EwCfR7x2 dYpR6Z1vejl1oeG+Weqkud0= =kFrE -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], - --Pb [P] wrote: P I know that it is meant for advanced users, but if you want (not P you of course but the creators/editors of The Bat!) to make a few P bucks out of this program, you have to have a large audience. I'm not sure if my opinion is valid one but anyway: I'm in the medical field. I don't directly use a computer at work. I have no formal training in computing either. One of the things that impressed me MOST about TB! when I first started using it, was how easy it was to create those templates. Have you given it a try? I could write TB! templates before I could write batch files. Stop gawking at those complex, regular expression based and recursive macros. Most will not need to go there. Leave them to those capable of writing them. You can use them, sure. But you don't have to be able to write them. TB!'s implementation allows EASY creation of simple templates for most individual needs and still allows creation of complex, powerful macros. This is perfect if you ask me. It allows the user to develop as I and others have. I can now help myself with a lot of the more complex template macros but I still have a few here that I use but don't understand. I only know what they do. P And regarding the Macros button, I couldn't agree more if I were P an anglophone. But I have to tweak like hell those codes just to P have a simple French date line that goes like Mardi, le 18 juin P 2002 à 14h37. Well, there's obtaining the standard output and then there's tweaking the standard output. Two *totally* different tasks. With what you wish, you'll very likely not be able to tweak things the way you have. Be careful what you wish for. There's a tradeoff one has to make between power and simplicity. The simplicity is already there and yet the power is there as well in a way I've personally never seen before in an application. P Of course, I would never be able to do that without the help of P some power users. This is why I say that it is too complicated. It is complicated because being able to do this doesn't come easily. You *have* to put in your time to learn it. You can't expect all that you wish to do to be learnt in a snap. We certainly would wish this but it's certainly not the case. I'm by no means an expert at writing regular expressions but I can take care of myself where most of my needs are concerned. It's simple for me to write some of the expressions that I write now, but not before many hours of sitting down and learning to write them. P There must be a way to implement simple yet powerful features with P check boxes. I am no programmer, but I am sure that the solution is P out there for anyone with a bit of imagination. You'd end up castrating the interface and holding everyone back. What about those who want to do more??? I don't see how under the sun one can reduce the construction of those more complex macro/regex combos to simple drop down menu selections. This is why the CLI and programming languages will be here to stay, whether it's behind the scenes or not. - -- -=Allie C Martin=- List Moderator | TB! v1.60q | Windows XP Pro PGP/GPG Public Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=2B0717E2 _ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iEYEARECAAYFAj0PlZAACgkQV8nrYCsHF+LnagCg2faDpmLE3kD/18YGFyCpTO8E zuoAnRDjEGz9XbksaFfLrHpIzgSjIQFN =huSf -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Thomas F [TF] wrote: TF Right. A non-geek autdience would probably not have any use for TF the functionality of that template, though. But I do like the idea TF of adding a GUI version for macro usage, in addition to the TF current version (which programmers like). Have you already added TF it to the wishlist? But the template has to be text, nuh? On the I need the date here, so I hit the macro button and select the date format I want and vuala, the macro is inserted, I need the senders name so I do the same as above and the macro to generate the sender name as I want it is autoinserted said: On the %Odate, %OFromName said: I don't see how much easier that can get considering the automation that has been achieved through that simple task!! Who really cares about the format of the macro itself, i.e., whether or not it carries a % sign? In fact this is better since you can tell where the macros are so it's easier to see what the template is doing. I think it's just an unreasonable expectation of being able to have command of the power TB! offers after a trivial look-over. - -- -=Allie C Martin=- List Moderator | TB! v1.60q | Windows XP Pro PGP/GPG Public Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=2B0717E2 _ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iEYEARECAAYFAj0Pl/MACgkQV8nrYCsHF+KZfgCg8ycqM7DpzAVojn6C4W8bbOQH uJwAoJeaU08eYMd4ubMZO3TzDV54uryy =wb04 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello Allie, On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:18:24 -0500 GMT (19/06/02, 03:18 +0700 GMT), Allie C Martin wrote: ACM I'm not sure if my opinion is valid one but anyway: IMHO any opinion, if brought forward appropriately, is valid. ;-) P Of course, I would never be able to do that without the help of P some power users. This is why I say that it is too complicated. ACM It is complicated because being able to do this doesn't come easily. ACM You *have* to put in your time to learn it. You can't expect all that ACM you wish to do to be learnt in a snap. We certainly would wish this ACM but it's certainly not the case. I would like to add that this very list is one of the features of TB. I don't know whether other mailers have such helpful lists. P There must be a way to implement simple yet powerful features with P check boxes. I am no programmer, but I am sure that the solution is P out there for anyone with a bit of imagination. ACM You'd end up castrating the interface and holding everyone back. Sorry for disagreeing, but I don't think so. What he is asking for is an additional way to access the macros. I don't see how it castrates the existing interface. ACM What about those who want to do more??? They will use the existing CLI. ACM I don't see how under the sun one can reduce the construction of ACM those more complex macro/regex combos to simple drop down menu ACM selections. The advantage of drop-down menus is that they are localisable (i.e. they follow the chosen interface language). When you hit on a menu item, the correct macro/regex in English will be inserted into the template. There are a lot of programmers' tools around that work that way: you just hit create array, 2 dims, 30x45 and the software will put the correct programming-language commands into your program-under-development. (There is a name for those tools, I just forgot it.) ACM This is why the CLI and programming languages will be here to ACM stay, whether it's behind the scenes or not. Sure. Right now, it's not behind the scenes. But it could be... ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Also, always avoid annoying alliteration. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.60q under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello Allie, On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:28:34 -0500 GMT (19/06/02, 03:28 +0700 GMT), Allie C Martin wrote: ACM On the %Odate, %OFromName said: ACM I don't see how much easier that can get considering the automation ACM that has been achieved through that simple task!! You are right in this example. How about the example given at http://www.ginkyo.org/contenu/pages/TheBat/thebat_macros.htm ? A button labeld translate date into local language could put the whole thing into the template. ACM Who really cares about the format of the macro itself, i.e., whether ACM or not it carries a % sign? In fact this is better since you can tell ACM where the macros are so it's easier to see what the template is doing. You would still be able to see the macro as created by hitting the button. ACM I think it's just an unreasonable expectation of being able to have ACM command of the power TB! offers after a trivial look-over. In my experience, a GUI never gives you the power you have with a CLI (see the random cookie!). The clickable buttons would only insert pre-written macros/regexes. The CLI would still be available. Example (maybe not really good): Instead of cp'ing the Spamcop filters from the FAQ page, imagine there would be a button labeled create SpamCop filters. My mother (who loves TB but has no idea about templates, macros, or regexes) could use it. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. One should never generalize. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.60q under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hallo TBUDL, Op mardi 18 juin 2002, 20:40:43, schreef --pb: p But I have to tweak like hell those codes just to have a simple p French date line that goes like Mardi, le 18 juin 2002 à 14h37. Well, as you can see, that's almost what I've got on top of this message. To get this, I had to do only two things. 1) Disable my address book template for this list. 2) And set my country settings to French. You wanted however to get two different times in your header (just like most of us) and you wanted them in French too. Is there another mua that can do that for you? -- Groetjes, Roelof Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hi Rick, RR most stable programs I've ever used. I run it on win98 at home RR and win2K at work and haven't had one single glitch RR whatsoever. (Currently using 1.60q) Boy are you lucky. Just about every other time I do a Send / Check Mail ALL, The Bat bombs. -- Tom G. http://blarp.com -- Free tech support The Bat 1.60q - Windows 2000 Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello Thomas, On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:48:33 +0700GMT (18-6-02, 22:48 +0200GMT, where I live), you wrote: TF You are right in this example. How about the example given at TF http://www.ginkyo.org/contenu/pages/TheBat/thebat_macros.htm ? A TF button labeld translate date into local language could put the TF whole thing into the template. Sure and I suppose you'd need a second button for those who'd like the whole time format cited in abbreviations? Besides, his problem was not the time/date in French, but he filtered with regexp a partial header and wanted to translate that. That's not quite a standard translation issue. As long as you're using the standard time/date macros TB will use the system's local language, what more can you want. -- Groetjes, Roelof Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello Roelof, On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 23:29:05 +0200 GMT (19/06/02, 04:29 +0700 GMT), Roelof Otten wrote: RO Besides, his problem was not the time/date in French, but he filtered RO with regexp a partial header and wanted to translate that. That's not RO quite a standard translation issue. As long as you're using the RO standard time/date macros TB will use the system's local language, what RO more can you want. I *knew* this example was not very good. But then, think about complex regexes that can be impletemented by clicking a button. That's the point. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. How come we choose from just two people for president and 50 for Miss America? Message reply created with The Bat! 1.60q under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello Thomas, On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 04:31:44 +0700GMT (18-6-02, 23:31 +0200GMT, where I live), you wrote: TF I *knew* this example was not very good. But then, think about complex TF regexes that can be impletemented by clicking a button. That's the TF point. And my point is that you can't expect TB to have a button for every conceivable macro. There's an abundance of macros available, but it has to stop somewhere and to expect a button that creates the equivalent of some regexp combined with four or five quick templates isn't just a 'not very good example', but it's a very good example to show that there are places that can't be reached with 'click and go'. There'd be some many buttons that the newbies couldn't find their way anymore. And thus they'd have the opposite effect as intended. -- Groetjes, Roelof Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re[2]: The Bat! 2.0 (probably OT)
It seems that Roelof Otten said ... R There'd be some many buttons that the newbies couldn't find their way R anymore. And thus they'd have the opposite effect as intended. This is true. What I like about TB is its quickness and its ability to be molded into the tool I need. It's simple enough to operate that a new user won't have much trouble with it -- no more than with Outlook or Eudora or Communicator. Following discussions here, poking through the help file, and experimenting with regular expressions will reveal functions that aren't immediately apparent. TB does more with a clean, simple (this is ugly?) interface than any pretty program. Give me functionality and power. And maybe a little more time. I've been using TB for a little over 2 years and I have mastered probably 1/3 of its tricks. Using The Bat! v1.60q on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 -- Bill Blinn, Technology Editor ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - 6/18/2002 at 6:14 PM Technology Corner on Newsradio 610 WTVN, Columbus, Ohio Direct: 614-785-9359 Fax: 630-604-9842 http://wtvn.blinn.com http://www.wtvn.com Random thought: Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare. Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Thomas F [TF] wrote: ACM I don't see how much easier that can get considering the ACM automation that has been achieved through that simple task!! TF You are right in this example. How about the example given at TF http://www.ginkyo.org/contenu/pages/TheBat/thebat_macros.htm ? A TF button labeld translate date into local language could put the TF whole thing into the template. The developers can't be expected to create a nice little button for each of the useful things achieved by end user construction of complex macros??? It's true that their macro list is increasing steadily. Looking at the complete list of macros tells us this. We can't however, put them all in drop down menus. We can't expect a macro to be created for all the things out there that have been written. There are so many subtle variations and tweaks out there anyway. Can you tweak the nice little button or can you tweak the macro itself, which brings you right back to square one. ACM Who really cares about the format of the macro itself, i.e., ACM whether or not it carries a % sign? In fact this is better since ACM you can tell where the macros are so it's easier to see what the ACM template is doing. TF You would still be able to see the macro as created by hitting the TF button. You hit a menu selection and the macro appeared in plain text. What makes it harder to understand or do than hitting a button? it's a rhetorical question really. I steadfastly do not think it's harder :-) TF In my experience, a GUI never gives you the power you have with a TF CLI (see the random cookie!). The clickable buttons would only TF insert pre-written macros/regexes. The CLI would still be TF available. But that is what you're doing with the macro button menu items. Inserting them. How are you going to deal with the rest of your none macro based text? You have to have it flowing as it does now. I like MDaemons filtering system which has an approach to what you're thinking. It's really not that different from what TB! does at present. TF Example (maybe not really good): Instead of cp'ing the Spamcop TF filters from the FAQ page, imagine there would be a button labeled TF create SpamCop filters. My mother (who loves TB but has no idea TF about templates, macros, or regexes) could use it. ;-) Example not good. g I see your point but I don't see where it's needed here. I assure you that users would remain confused considering what these templates can do. If they're confused with the current implementation then they'll remain confused with other methods. I think what has happened is that the list is so mature, that regex macros are being spoken of and passed around as if it's a trivial matter to create them and that everyone should be able to do it with little effort, and if this isn't so, then blame the interface. I simply cannot agree with that. - -- -=Allie C Martin=- List Moderator | TB! v1.60q | Windows XP Pro PGP/GPG Public Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=2B0717E2 _ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iEYEARECAAYFAj0Ps6oACgkQV8nrYCsHF+JnRwCeMrmXc5Wl3DzzUezOczDS6VY7 Ad8AoIxgVljHBcVjeXhjCEXvN+3nNIHe =Ziog -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, 3:57:02 PM, Blarp wrote: RR most stable programs I've ever used. I run it on win98 at home RR and win2K at work and haven't had one single glitch whatsoever. RR (Currently using 1.60q) Boy are you lucky. Just about every other time I do a Send / Check Mail ALL, The Bat bombs. You have some serious issues somewhere else then. I've been using TB! since 10 March 2001, and started running betas on 29 April of that year. I have found TB! to always be rock solid, except briefly with a few shaky betas. This stability was what first caused me to buy TB! -- Dwight A. Corrin P O Box 47828 Wichita KS 67201-7828 316.263.9706 fax 316.263.6385 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.60i on Windows XP version 5,1 Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: The Bat! 2.0
Hello Roelof, Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 23:29 GMT +0200, was when inspiration required Roelof Otten [RO] to write: TF How about the example given at TF http://www.ginkyo.org/contenu/pages/TheBat/thebat_macros.htm ? snip RO Besides, his problem was not the time/date in French, but he filtered RO with regexp a partial header and wanted to translate that. Not only that, but the format of the whole string is very much customized. I suppose one could argue that with the current version, the format can be customized with the standard macros, but that wasn't the case when that example (and its ancestor) was written. -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. -Emo Philips Current Ver: 1.60q FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
