Re: Worm filter text
Neal Laugman, [NL] wrote: AM My mailserver, MDaemon uses spam assassin technology, in AM combination with blacklist checking and a Bayesian filtering AM mechanism. NL I will investigate MDaemon http://www.altn.com/ further. They offer NL an interesting package. Do you run this commercially? No. I run it privately. I have two domains, the mail for which I manage with it. It's admittedly expensive if you wish to use the anti-spam features which are available only via a pro license. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Worm filter text
Hello Neal, On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, at 11:17:50 [GMT -0800] (which was 20:17 in my TimeZone) you wrote: NL Hi, NL Here are the two text files I have cobbled together that will stop NL most of the swen worms. Still getting one or two a minute and none got NL through in the last 8 hours since I went off-line last night. NL There are two selective download filters: form and to. Originator.txt and NL addressee.txt are the external files you would use respectively. NL My apologies to the list for trying to upload a zip file yesterday; I NL now understand attachments are not allowed here. I have'nt seen one since training POPFile, then deleting those messages on the server. -- Best regards, Michael http://www.thompsonmike.co.uk/ PGP KeyID := 0xA9547E32 Smokey the Bear says, Strip mining prevents forest fires! pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00.6 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Worm filter text
Saturday, September 27, 2003, 8:40:58 PM, Thomas wrote: TF Why don't you just use @advisor? Same goes for @bulletin and TF @news etc. snip @yahoo.com TF You'll definitely get false-postives when reading this very mailing TF list. We do the best we can. No one else has been willing to share what they have been using and there are people like me who have a very serious problem to deal with. TF Same (a lot of false positives) will be true for your addressee list. TF I think you just stored the domains of the email addresses with which TF the worm arrived on your computer. Of course you have a very high TF probability that a new infected mail is caught, but the probability of TF false-postives is far too high for my taste. Of course you may choose to use what you will or not use it at all. TF If you think otherwise, try this as a filtering string for the kill TF filter: @. You will not receive a single infected mail. Definitely a constructive suggestion. I am surely not the expert that you apparently are. Thank you for your help. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Worm filter text
Hello Neal, On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:39:36 -0800 GMT (28/09/2003, 14:39 +0700 GMT), Neal Laugman wrote: We do the best we can. No one else has been willing to share what they have been using and there are people like me who have a very serious problem to deal with. mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] deals with the problem and offers an easy solution. If you have questions or doubts after reading that whole thread, kindly advise. Definitely a constructive suggestion. I am surely not the expert that you apparently are. Thank you for your help. I was defnitely trying to help you. Forgot the smiley at the last joke, though. I thought it was obvious, but hey, people are different. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Take notice: when this sign is under water the road is impassable. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.00.18 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Worm filter text
Hi Thomas, TF I was defnitely trying to help you. Forgot the smiley at the last TF joke, though. I thought it was obvious, but hey, people are different. Yes - I suppose I took it wrong. Please accept my apologies. No harm :o) The worm thing really has me wound up. Just trying to make a contribution and am relatively new to the list. Haven't had much time for my Delphi newsgroups lately and I have a need to post g. Have a good weekend. -- Neal Using The Bat! v2.00.18 on Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Worm filter text
Hello Neal, Saturday, September 27, 2003, 10:20:19 PM, you wrote: E And only the mails that match with both (so From AND to) will be E deleted? No - this is an OR condition: if one does not do it, the second will. I have the sender filter first, then the addressee. I also have some Subject items I forgot to mention which would be yet a third Selective download filter: It was also pointed out to me by Ken that AOL and Yahoo are in the list. Delete these if it is a problem. Yes, and not only from this list but also from people in your address book. Maybe you can at a fourth filter with names of people in your address book and the TBUDL@ in it. If it is in the not in the message and it will fit one of the other criteria then it is deleted. -- Cheers, Edgar Communicating with TB! v2.00.6, Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 Gravity is a myth, the Earth sucks. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Worm filter text
Sunday, September 28, 2003, 12:46:09 AM, Edgar wrote: It was also pointed out to me by Ken that AOL and Yahoo are in the list. Delete these if it is a problem. E Yes, and not only from this list but also from people in your address E book. E Maybe you can at a fourth filter with names of people in your address E book and the TBUDL@ in it. If it is in the not in the message and it E will fit one of the other criteria then it is deleted. I see. I'll work on this tomorrow. I realize my approach is brute force and I will see if I can refine it with your suggestion. When you are drowning, you don't really care if you are wet ;) Thanks. -- Neal Using The Bat! v2.00.18 on Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Worm filter text
Neal Laugman wrote: We do the best we can. No one else has been willing to share what they have been using and there are people like me who have a very serious problem to deal with. This is true - I think a lot of people are trying. Honestly, I've been a bit disappointed to how willing some people are on this list to provide detailed step-by-step instructions for some things, yet there is very little *SPECIFIC* help in regards to filtering/dealing with spam (my apologies if I've missed it - but I have looked). In fact, it seems that much of the SPECIFIC spam filter help has been pointing out your errors, Neal. So I thank you for doing it wrong... ;) -- Ken Green Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Worm filter text
On Sunday, September 28, 2003, ken green wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: kg a bit disappointed to how willing some people are on this list to kg provide detailed step-by-step instructions for some things, yet kg there is very little *SPECIFIC* help in regards to kg filtering/dealing with spam ken, fwiw, my filters at the client level have proven mostly ineffective. my current strategy, which is working fairly well, is to filter at the server level by size (my mail service has such a filter). the wormy mail that gets through not only gets snared by my AV, but it also gets caught--more than 90% anyway--by my spam filters. so the residual text-based filters that i have, which did not work so well to begin with, are not even being used as a practical matter. the point of all this is that that the lack of helpful responses here may be more a function of the lack of helpful material with which to respond than it is a lack of willingness to share specifics. -- JN Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Worm filter text
Saturday, September 27, 2003, Neal Laugman wrote: @advisor.com @advisor.microsoft.com @advisor.microsoft.net @advisor.ms.com @advisor.ms.net @advisor.msdn.com @advisor.msdn.net @advisor.msn.com @advisor.msn.net I never used the selective download feature, but if I understand it correctly you could use a regular expression like \@(.*\.)?m(icrosoft|s((d?)n)?)\.(com|net) to catch all those microsoft/ms/msn/msdn lines all at once. -- Urban Queen Victoria was the longest queen. She sat on a thorn for 63 years. She was a moral woman who practiced virtue. Her death was the final event which ended her reign. Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Worm filter text
On Sunday, September 28, 2003, 8:39:36 AM, Neal Laugman wrote: We do the best we can. No one else has been willing to share what they have been using and there are people like me who have a very serious problem to deal with. I think, perhaps, that many people on the list have abandoned trying to filter spam using TB filters when there are many excellent third-party spam filters available. There is so much spam around now that it takes too long to try to keep filters up to date, and as fast as I change the filters for new spam, the details change again. I use Spampal, together with the Baysian plug-in, but others use Popfile etc. They are free, do the hard work of keeping filters up to date, and therefore offer excellent value for money. Julian -- Using The Bat! v2.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Worm filter text
Sunday, September 28, 2003, 1:47:08 PM, Urban wrote: U Saturday, September 27, 2003, Neal Laugman wrote: @advisor.com @advisor.microsoft.com @advisor.microsoft.net @advisor.ms.com @advisor.ms.net @advisor.msdn.com @advisor.msdn.net @advisor.msn.com @advisor.msn.net U I never used the selective download feature, but if I understand it U correctly you could use a regular expression like U \@(.*\.)?m(icrosoft|s((d?)n)?)\.(com|net) U to catch all those microsoft/ms/msn/msdn lines all at once. Thanks! In the next couple of days I will try to cobble something together. No time like the present to start learning; but remembering is a different matter... -- Neal Using The Bat! v2.00.18 on Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Worm filter text
Sunday, September 28, 2003, 2:14:36 PM, Julian wrote: JBL On Sunday, September 28, 2003, 8:39:36 AM, Neal Laugman wrote: We do the best we can. No one else has been willing to share what they have been using and there are people like me who have a very serious problem to deal with. JBL I think, perhaps, that many people on the list have abandoned trying JBL to filter spam using TB filters when there are many excellent JBL third-party spam filters available. There is so much spam around now JBL that it takes too long to try to keep filters up to date, and as fast JBL as I change the filters for new spam, the details change again. That is a very good point. I had been using Postini McAffee provided by the ISP, and it caught most of it. Unfortunately you would still have to deal with it in the web interface so I abandoned it. JBL I use Spampal, together with the Baysian plug-in, but others use JBL Popfile etc. They are free, do the hard work of keeping filters JBL up to date, and therefore offer excellent value for money. I've looked at Spampal but not in detail. Free is good too. I've installed Alexander's Baysian plug-in and its just starting to work. Guess it's the techy in me that drives me to do it myself:/ It just seems with all of the capabilities of TB one could be the master of our plagues. One little detail I forgot to mention to everyone about SWEN: It found me through Opera's newsgroups when I had mistakenly posted a reply-to address that was not *cloaked*. It was immediately harvested :( But M2 is safe in itself and things could not be better than with The Bat! and AVG. Thanks Julian. -- Neal Using The Bat! v2.00.18 on Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Worm filter text
Joseph N. wrote: fwiw, Actually worth quite a lot. Your post made a bunch of sense. my filters at the client level have proven mostly ineffective. my current strategy, which is working fairly well, is to filter at the server level by size (my mail service has such a filter). Yup. This worked for me with the Swen.A messages since I was getting those almost exclusively through this account (which is for lists and such) - so setting up a size limit of 90K killed the Swen.A problem. the wormy mail that gets through not only gets snared by my AV, but it also gets caught--more than 90% anyway--by my spam filters. so the residual text-based filters that i have, which did not work so well to begin with, are not even being used as a practical matter. Good point. I have been reading the recommendations on this list for anti-Spam tools. Maybe I am asking too much of TB in this instance (it's easy to get spoiled when a program has so many features). the point of all this is that that the lack of helpful responses here may be more a function of the lack of helpful material with which to respond than it is a lack of willingness to share specifics. That makes sense. To be perfectly honest, my post wasn't intended to be whiny - more poking fun at Neal. ;) The problem that I'm having with the signal strings, is if I want to leave messages on the server. This becomes a nightmare if there are a lot of messages and they normally filter to different folders when downloaded to the Bat. When I invoke the Dispatcher, I see a list of messages (sometimes a very long list). Since they are ALL marked 'Read' - how do I know if they are ignored messages that haven't been downloaded (and should be deleted) or false positives from filters (and should be downloaded)? The answer to that isn't very efficient: the only way to be sure is to check EACH AND EVERY message before downloading/deleting. Which kinda defeats the purpose of signal strings, huh? -- Ken Green Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Worm filter text
Neal Laugman, [NL] wrote: NL I've looked at Spampal but not in detail. Free is good too. I've NL installed Alexander's Baysian plug-in and its just starting to work. NL Guess it's the techy in me that drives me to do it myself:/ It just NL seems with all of the capabilities of TB one could be the master of NL our plagues. The way I see it, it's sort of like saying, if I develop software then I shouldn't be buying any software and instead be writing my own. :) I know it's not as drastic as that, but spam changes so much that doing your own filtering can often be tedious at best, especially if filtering by exclusion doesn't work for you (this is my situation now). With filtering by exclusion, you indirectly catch spam by filtering out all legitimate mail and then assuming that what's left is spam. As an alternative to the easier method of filtering by exclusion, one has to directly filter out the spam. The best approach is using a third party utility that adjusts itself as it filters. It gets better and better as you indicate to it that messages it didn't detect are in fact spam. It takes away the work of having to create string values to look for. Since they look at different aspects of the message and apply a scoring system, a high degree of accuracy of filtering (minimal false positives and negatives) can be achieved with minimal effort from your side. My mailserver, MDaemon uses spam assassin technology, in combination with blacklist checking and a Bayesian filtering mechanism. My only input in what it does is to export my junk mail folder contents to a special directory that the bayesian filter learns from. I do this when the spam folder reaches about 50 spam messages. Currently, the spam filtering is extremely accurate with no false positives as far as I can recall. The occasional false negative passes through and I just move it to the junk mail folder for export so that it may be encorporated in the bayesian learning process. All much less of a headache than fiddling with search strings using regex, something I'm perfectly capable of but would rather not waste time doing if I can avoid it. I'll soon be looking into automating the junk mail folder export process. It would be then that I would have no interaction at all with spam filtering. SpamPal is VERY good (first hand experience) and so is Popfile, I've been made to understand. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html _ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Worm filter text
Sunday, September 28, 2003, 3:53:13 PM, Allie wrote: AM Neal Laugman, [NL] wrote: NL I've looked at Spampal but not in detail. Free is good too. I've NL installed Alexander's Baysian plug-in and its just starting to work. NL Guess it's the techy in me that drives me to do it myself:/ It just NL seems with all of the capabilities of TB one could be the master of NL our plagues. AM The way I see it, it's sort of like saying, if I develop software then I AM shouldn't be buying any software and instead be writing my own. :) I guess I haven't learned that lesson yet as well as I thought I had. AM My mailserver, MDaemon uses spam assassin technology, in combination AM with blacklist checking and a Bayesian filtering mechanism. I will investigate MDaemon http://www.altn.com/ further. They offer an interesting package. Do you run this commercially? AM All much less of a headache than fiddling with search AM strings using regex, something I'm perfectly capable of but would AM rather not waste time doing if I can avoid it. I know you are probably right - so why do I need yet another hobby? AM SpamPal is VERY good (first hand experience) and so is Popfile, I've AM been made to understand. Thanks for the recommendations. I will look into these. -- Neal Using The Bat! v2.00.18 on Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Worm filter text
Hi, Here are the two text files I have cobbled together that will stop most of the swen worms. Still getting one or two a minute and none got through in the last 8 hours since I went off-line last night. There are two selective download filters: form and to. Originator.txt and addressee.txt are the external files you would use respectively. My apologies to the list for trying to upload a zip file yesterday; I now understand attachments are not allowed here. -- Neal, the Reg-Ex Challenged One /* originator.text */ @advisor.com @advisor.microsoft.com @advisor.microsoft.net @advisor.ms.com @advisor.ms.net @advisor.msdn.com @advisor.msdn.net @advisor.msn.com @advisor.msn.net @advisor.net @advisor_com @advisor_microsoft.com @advisor_microsoft.net @advisor_ms.com @advisor_ms.net @advisor_msdn.com @advisor_msdn.com @advisor_msdn.com @advisor_msdn.net @advisor_msn.com @advisor_msn.net @advisor_net @america.com @america.net @aol.com @aol.net @bbxsito.microsoft.net @bbxsito.microsoft.net @bigfoot.com @bigfoot.net @bulletin.com @bulletin.microsoft.com @bulletin.microsoft.net @bulletin.ms.com @bulletin.ms.net @bulletin.msdn.com @bulletin.msdn.net @bulletin.msn.com @bulletin.msn.net @bulletin.net @bulletin_com @bulletin_microsoft.com @bulletin_microsoft.net @bulletin_ms.com @bulletin_ms.net @bulletin_msdn.com @bulletin_msdn.net @bulletin_msn.com @bulletin_msn.net @bulletin_net @confidence.com @confidence.microsoft.com @confidence.microsoft.net @confidence.ms.com @confidence.ms.net @confidence.msdn.com @confidence.msdn.net @confidence.msn.com @confidence.msn.net @confidence.net @emaildomain.net @freemail.com @hotmail.com @lb.redirect.msnbc.com @microsoft.com @microsoft.net @ms.com @ms.net @msdn.com @msdn.net @msn.com @msn.net @msnews.microsoft.com @netmail.com @netmail.net @news.com @news.microsoft.com @news.microsoft.net @news.ms.com @news.ms.net @news.msdn.com @news.msdn.net @news.msn.com @news.msn.net @news.net @news_com @news_microsoft.com @news_microsoft.net @news_ms.com @news_ms.com @news_ms.com @news_ms.net @news_msdn.com @news_msdn.net @news_msdn.net @news_msdn.net @news_msn.com @news_msn.net @news_net @newsletter.com @newsletter.microsoft.com @newsletter.microsoft.net @newsletter.ms.com @newsletter.ms.net @newsletter.msdn.com @newsletter.msdn.net @newsletter.msn.com @newsletter.msn.net @newsletter.net @newsletter_com @newsletter_microsoft.com @newsletter_microsoft.net @newsletter_ms.com @newsletter_ms.net @newsletter_msdn.com @newsletter_msdn.net @newsletter_msn.com @newsletter_msn.net @newsletter_net @newsletters.com @newsletters.microsoft.com @newsletters.net @newsletters_com @newsletters_ms.com @newsletters_ms.net @puremail.com @puremail.net @rocketmail.com @rocketmail.net @smtpdomain.com @support.com @support.microsoft.com @support.microsoft.net @support.ms.com @support.ms.net @support.msdn.com @support.msdn.net @support.msn.com @support.msn.net @support.net @technet.com @technet.microsoft.com @technet.microsoft.net @technet.ms.com @technet.ms.net @technet.msdn.com @technet.msdn.net @technet.msn.com @technet.msn.net @technet.net @tenchiclub.com @uocra.org @updates.com @updates.microsoft.com @updates.microsoft.net @updates.ms.com @updates.ms.net @updates.msdn.com @updates.msdn.net @updates.msn.com @updates.msn.net @updates.net @wsobm.com @yahoo.com @yahoo.net postmaster admin MS Public Bulletin Postmaster /* originator.txt */ /* addressee.txt */ admin advisor.com advisor.microsoft.com advisor.microsoft.net advisor.ms.com advisor.ms.net advisor.msdn.com advisor.msdn.net advisor.msn.com advisor.msn.net advisor.net advisor_com advisor_microsoft.com advisor_microsoft.net advisor_ms.com advisor_ms.net advisor_msdn.com advisor_msdn.com advisor_msdn.com advisor_msdn.net advisor_msn.com advisor_msn.net advisor_net america.com america.net aol.com aol.net bbxsito.microsoft.net bbxsito.microsoft.net bigfoot.com bulletin.com bulletin.microsoft.com bulletin.microsoft.net bulletin.ms.com bulletin.ms.net bulletin.msdn.com bulletin.msdn.net bulletin.msn.com bulletin.msn.net bulletin.net bulletin_com bulletin_microsoft.com bulletin_microsoft.net bulletin_ms.com bulletin_ms.net bulletin_msdn.com bulletin_msdn.net bulletin_msn.com bulletin_msn.net bulletin_net confidence.com confidence.microsoft.com confidence.microsoft.net confidence.ms.com confidence.ms.net confidence.msdn.com confidence.msdn.net confidence.msn.com confidence.msn.net confidence.net email user emailserver.com freemail.com hotmail.com Mail Client Postmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] microsoft.com microsoft.net ms.com ms.net msdn.com msdn.net msn.com msn.net msnews.microsoft.com mxserver.com mxserver.com netmail.com netmail.net Network Client [EMAIL PROTECTED] Network Receiver [EMAIL PROTECTED] news.com news.microsoft.com news.microsoft.net news.ms.com news.ms.net
Re: Worm filter text
Hello Neal, Saturday, September 27, 2003, 9:17:50 PM, you wrote: There are two selective download filters: form and to. Originator.txt and addressee.txt are the external files you would use respectively. And only the mails that match with both (so From AND to) will be deleted? -- Cheers, Edgar Communicating with TB! v2.00.6, Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. - Chinese Proverb Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Worm filter text
Saturday, September 27, 2003, 12:05:43 PM, Edgar wrote: E Hello Neal, E Saturday, September 27, 2003, 9:17:50 PM, you wrote: There are two selective download filters: form and to. Originator.txt and addressee.txt are the external files you would use respectively. E And only the mails that match with both (so From AND to) will be E deleted? No - this is an OR condition: if one does not do it, the second will. I have the sender filter first, then the addressee. I also have some Subject items I forgot to mention which would be yet a third Selective download filter: virus error patch pack latest increase Critical Security Bulletin Security pack unknown undelivered failure no subject latest newest returned bug error recipient network mail message privacy It was also pointed out to me by Ken that AOL and Yahoo are in the list. Delete these if it is a problem. I'm sure open to a reg-ex solution (hint to lurkers..) -- Neal Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Worm filter text
Hello Neal, On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:17:50 -0800 GMT (28/09/2003, 02:17 +0700 GMT), Neal Laugman wrote: There are two selective download filters: form and to. Originator.txt and addressee.txt are the external files you would use respectively. [Orig] @advisor.com @advisor.microsoft.com @advisor.microsoft.net @advisor.ms.com @advisor.ms.net @advisor.msdn.com @advisor.msdn.net @advisor.msn.com @advisor.msn.net ... Why don't you just use @advisor? Same goes for @bulletin and @news etc. @aol.com You don't know anybody who uses AOL? For me this would cause quite a number of false positives. @freemail.com @hotmail.com @yahoo.com You'll definitely get false-postives when reading this very mailing list. Same (a lot of false positives) will be true for your addressee list. I think you just stored the domains of the email addresses with which the worm arrived on your computer. Of course you have a very high probability that a new infected mail is caught, but the probability of false-postives is far too high for my taste. If you think otherwise, try this as a filtering string for the kill filter: @. You will not receive a single infected mail. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Note: Please don't misconstrue my 14 jobs as 'job-hopping'. I have never quit a job. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.00.6 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
