Re: Removing old video drivers
OpenBSD's model and philosophy match both my requirements and expectations perfectly, Theo. I'm just not too fond of stuff unexpectedly breaking - admittedly because I missed out on this specific thread -, but for which Stuart's tip is an excellent mitigation indeed. Kind regards, Dirk -- Sent from: http://openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/openbsd-dev-tech-f151936.html
Re: Removing old video drivers
Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2020/05/19 14:23, Dirk Praet wrote: > > A manual xorg config with the vesa driver brought X back to life, but not > > until I set machdep.allowaperture=2 in /etc/sysctl.conf . Thanks for your > > reply, Matthieu. I do hope 6.7 doesn't come with similar surprises, though > > Run -current between releases if you don't want to see surprises in a release. Yes, that's the best way! Another way is if your expectations don't match OpenBSD, there are many other choices out there.
Re: Removing old video drivers
On 2020/05/19 14:23, Dirk Praet wrote: > A manual xorg config with the vesa driver brought X back to life, but not > until I set machdep.allowaperture=2 in /etc/sysctl.conf . Thanks for your > reply, Matthieu. I do hope 6.7 doesn't come with similar surprises, though Run -current between releases if you don't want to see surprises in a release.
Re: Removing old video drivers
A manual xorg config with the vesa driver brought X back to life, but not until I set machdep.allowaperture=2 in /etc/sysctl.conf . Thanks for your reply, Matthieu. I do hope 6.7 doesn't come with similar surprises, though -- Sent from: http://openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/openbsd-dev-tech-f151936.html
Re: Removing old video drivers
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 09:40:30AM -0700, Dirk Praet wrote: > Hi Matthieu, > > It would seem I'm a bit (too) late to this party. In short: I'm running a > high security environment leveraging the combined power of contemporary > OpenBSD and ancient i386 hardware stuffed with RAM, but untouched by all > kinds of modern BIOS/EFI/processor "management" technology. My recent > upgrade to 6.6 has crippled several machines using the Trident video > chipset, which I then found out was removed from both the 6.6 binary > distribution and the Xenocara tree. Which begs the following questions: > > - Is it possible to bring the Trident-module back ? No. At least not in the OpenBSD supported tree. You can still try to get the sources out of CVS's Attic and build it for yourself but I'm not sure if it will compile against X server 1.20.8. > - If not, is there any (documented) way to still get X to work on the > affected (laptop) machines using a framebuffer or other module, blacklisting > in some way the Trident module which Xorg detects as the chipset in use but > then bails out on because it is no longer there ? You can try to use the xf86-video-vesa driver, but it's main limitation is that it only supports graphics modes that are hard-coded in the machine's video BIOS. And laptops from that ERA often didn't even bother to provide a video mode that matches the native resolution of their panel. > - Is the removal of additional graphics modules in the future not > effectively rendering the i386 port useless for anything else than pure CLI, > router or headless systems, and, shouldn't , in that case, an explicit > warning be added to release notes/installer/sysupgrade ? Too late unfortunatly. 6.6 was release 6 month ago. -- Matthieu Herrb
Re: Removing old video drivers
Touché. I should probably rephrase this as "operating a slightly less insecure environment as compared to running vanilla Windows 10 on contemporary COTS hardware". And finding it really hard to throw away perfectly good hardware that suited the intended purposes really well until Matthieu unfortunately retired a series of old video drivers. For reasons which, for the record, I do understand. Keep up the good work. Dirk -- Sent from: http://openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/openbsd-dev-tech-f151936.html
Re: Removing old video drivers
Dirk Praet wrote: > Hi Matthieu, > > It would seem I'm a bit (too) late to this party. In short: I'm running a > high security environment leveraging the combined power of contemporary ^ > OpenBSD and ancient i386 hardware stuffed with RAM, but untouched by all ^ I'm glad this delusion is not highly infectious.
Re: Removing old video drivers
Hi Matthieu, It would seem I'm a bit (too) late to this party. In short: I'm running a high security environment leveraging the combined power of contemporary OpenBSD and ancient i386 hardware stuffed with RAM, but untouched by all kinds of modern BIOS/EFI/processor "management" technology. My recent upgrade to 6.6 has crippled several machines using the Trident video chipset, which I then found out was removed from both the 6.6 binary distribution and the Xenocara tree. Which begs the following questions: - Is it possible to bring the Trident-module back ? - If not, is there any (documented) way to still get X to work on the affected (laptop) machines using a framebuffer or other module, blacklisting in some way the Trident module which Xorg detects as the chipset in use but then bails out on because it is no longer there ? - Is the removal of additional graphics modules in the future not effectively rendering the i386 port useless for anything else than pure CLI, router or headless systems, and, shouldn't , in that case, an explicit warning be added to release notes/installer/sysupgrade ? Kind regards, Dirk PS It would seem these are bad times for anything "Trident". I recently also had to let go of several FreeBSD Trident (successor of PC-BSD/TrueOS) VM's as its developers suddenly decided to ditch FreeBSD in favor of Linux. -- Sent from: http://openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/openbsd-dev-tech-f151936.html
Re: Removing old video drivers
On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 06:47:23PM +0200, Matthieu Herrb wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In xenocara, we still build a number of video drivers for very old
> hardware, that is mostly useless. For AGP, I don't have a working
> motherboard to test the cards I still have.
> I also still have a few PCI cards for some of them, but most of them
> are dead, or don't work as primary display with modern BIOSes.
>
> And most important, none of these old cards has enough RAM to run any
> kind of modern 16 or 32 bpp X at a decent resolution. (And the xserver
> version 1.20 has dropped support for 24 bits per pixel modes).
>
> So rather that try to blindly fix the issues with these drivers I'd
> rather remove them. This is the list of candidates for removing.
>
Here is the patch that implements the proposed removals. I've kept
xf86-video-savage for now, since they made cards with decent amounts
of RAM that are still usable.
ok ?
Index: Makefile
===
RCS file: /cvs/OpenBSD/xenocara/driver/Makefile,v
retrieving revision 1.73
diff -u -r1.73 Makefile
--- Makefile16 Apr 2019 02:06:30 - 1.73
+++ Makefile11 May 2019 07:56:17 -
@@ -44,16 +44,14 @@
VIDEO_DRV_alpha=
VIDEO_DRV_amd64= \
- xf86-video-amdgpu xf86-video-apm xf86-video-ark \
+ xf86-video-amdgpu xf86-video-apm \
xf86-video-ast xf86-video-ati \
- xf86-video-chips xf86-video-cirrus xf86-video-dummy xf86-video-glint \
- xf86-video-i128 xf86-video-intel xf86-video-mach64 \
- xf86-video-mga xf86-video-neomagic \
+ xf86-video-cirrus xf86-video-dummy \
+ xf86-video-intel xf86-video-mach64 \
+ xf86-video-mga \
xf86-video-nv xf86-video-openchrome xf86-video-r128 \
- xf86-video-rendition xf86-video-s3 \
- xf86-video-s3virge xf86-video-savage xf86-video-siliconmotion \
- xf86-video-sis xf86-video-tdfx xf86-video-trident \
- xf86-video-tseng xf86-video-vesa xf86-video-vmware \
+ xf86-video-savage xf86-video-siliconmotion \
+ xf86-video-vesa xf86-video-vmware \
xf86-video-wsfb xf86-video-wsudl
VIDEO_DRV_arm64= \
@@ -68,9 +66,7 @@
VIDEO_DRV_i386= \
${VIDEO_DRV_amd64} \
- xf86-video-geode \
- xf86-video-i740 \
- xf86-video-voodoo
+ xf86-video-geode
VIDEO_DRV_landisk=
@@ -89,7 +85,7 @@
VIDEO_DRV_sgi= xf86-video-wsfb
VIDEO_DRV_sparc64= \
- xf86-video-ati xf86-video-mach64 xf86-video-r128 xf86-video-glint \
+ xf86-video-ati xf86-video-mach64 xf86-video-r128 \
xf86-video-sunffb \
xf86-video-wildcatfb xf86-video-wsfb
--
Matthieu Herrb
Re: Removing old video drivers
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:55:01 +0200 Matthieu Herrb wrote: > If you are actually running X, ... Not on the old "S3 Trio3D AGP" Pentium II 350MHz machines Matthieu, (these are used as small servers, some with VGA glass tube screens). > This is an Intel chipset supported by the current DRM driver. ... OK. Cheers! -- Craig Skinner | http://linkd.in/yGqkv7
Re: Removing old video drivers
On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 10:28:18AM +0100, Craig Skinner wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:47:23 +0200 Matthieu Herrb wrote:
> > If you're still using a machine with a graphics card supported by one
> > of these, please speak up, otherwise they are going to be removed:
>
> Is this a valid way to find out Matthieu?
Hi,
Yes, but it doesn't tell you which X.Org driver is beeing used.
If you are actually running X, A better way is to look in
/var/log/Xorg.0.log
Something like that will print the driver name:
awk -F' ' '/[A-Za-z]+\(0\)/ { print $4 }' /var/log/Xorg.0.log | uniq
(Unfortunatly there is no standard way to query the running X server
for the active video driver(s)...)
I'm interested in the full contents of /var/log/Xorg.0.log if you're
willing to share it.
>
>
> $ grep -i -e vga -e video /var/run/dmesg.boot
> vga1 at pci1 dev 1 function 0 "S3 Trio3D AGP" rev 0x01
> wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
This is probably using the s3virge driver, which is on the list of
driver that have issues with the next X server version.
>
>
>
> $ grep -i -e vga -e video /var/run/dmesg.boot
> acpivideo0 at acpi0: IGD0
> acpivout0 at acpivideo0: DD01
> vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Intel Pineview Video" rev 0x00
> intagp0 at vga1
> inteldrm0 at vga1
> wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (std, vt100 emulation)
> "Intel Pineview Video" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured
> uvideo0 at uhub0 port 8 configuration 1 interface 0 "Chicony Corp. Lenovo
> EasyCamera" rev 2.00/45.42 addr 3
> video0 at uvideo0
This is an intel chipset supported by the current DRM driver. It's not
going away anytime soon.
--
Matthieu Herrb
Re: Removing old video drivers
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:47:23 +0200 Matthieu Herrb wrote: > If you're still using a machine with a graphics card supported by one > of these, please speak up, otherwise they are going to be removed: Is this a valid way to find out Matthieu? $ grep -i -e vga -e video /var/run/dmesg.boot vga1 at pci1 dev 1 function 0 "S3 Trio3D AGP" rev 0x01 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) $ grep -i -e vga -e video /var/run/dmesg.boot acpivideo0 at acpi0: IGD0 acpivout0 at acpivideo0: DD01 vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Intel Pineview Video" rev 0x00 intagp0 at vga1 inteldrm0 at vga1 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (std, vt100 emulation) "Intel Pineview Video" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured uvideo0 at uhub0 port 8 configuration 1 interface 0 "Chicony Corp. Lenovo EasyCamera" rev 2.00/45.42 addr 3 video0 at uvideo0 Cheers, -- Craig Skinner | http://linkd.in/yGqkv7
Re: Removing old video drivers
(sorry this isn't coming with In-Reply-To/References headers as I read Matthieu's post on marc.info via Mastodon) > So rather that try to blindly fix the issues with these drivers I'd > rather remove them. This is the list of candidates for removing. > > If you're still using a machine with a graphics card supported by > one of these, please speak up, otherwise they are going to be > removed: > > xf86-video-s3 > xf86-video-s3virge I still have one i386 OpenBSD machine with an S3 card (running 6.4, usually tracking releases, so it'll get upgraded to 6.5 here shortly). I'm not positive if this is one of the two S3 drivers on the chopping block, but I at least wanted to wave a "yes, I'm still using an S3 card, albeit lightly" from the back row. $ dmesg | grep vga vga1 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 "S3 Twister" rev 0x02 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) $ grep -i s3 /var/log/Xorg.0.log [ 164.119] (II) SAVAGE: driver (version 2.3.9) for S3 Savage chipsets: Savage4, [ 164.279] (II) SAVAGE(0): VESA VBE OEM: S3 Incorporated. Twister BIOS [ 164.279] (II) SAVAGE(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: S3 Incorporated. [ 165.680] (II) SAVAGE(0): VESA VBE OEM: S3 Incorporated. Twister BIOS [ 165.680] (II) SAVAGE(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: S3 Incorporated. Please let me know if you need any further information. And push come to shove, I can retire the GUI on this machine, as I use it largely out of nostalgia as it was my first 100% OpenBSD machine. Thanks, -Tim
Removing old video drivers
Hi, In xenocara, we still build a number of video drivers for very old hardware, that is mostly useless. For AGP, I don't have a working motherboard to test the cards I still have. I also still have a few PCI cards for some of them, but most of them are dead, or don't work as primary display with modern BIOSes. And most important, none of these old cards has enough RAM to run any kind of modern 16 or 32 bpp X at a decent resolution. (And the xserver version 1.20 has dropped support for 24 bits per pixel modes). So rather that try to blindly fix the issues with these drivers I'd rather remove them. This is the list of candidates for removing. If you're still using a machine with a graphics card supported by one of these, please speak up, otherwise they are going to be removed: xf86-video-ark xf86-video-chips xf86-video-glint xf86-video-i128 xf86-video-i740 xf86-video-neomagic xf86-video-rendition xf86-video-s3 xf86-video-s3virge xf86-video-savage xf86-video-sis xf86-video-tdfx xf86-video-trident xf86-video-tseng xf86-video-voodoo For now, we would keep the following non drm/kms drivers: xf86-video-ast xf86-video-cirrus xf86-video-dummy xf86-video-mach64 xf86-video-mga xf86-video-nv xf86-video-openchrome xf86-video-r128 xf86-video-siliconmotion xf86-video-vesa xf86-video-vmware xf86-video-wsfb xf86-video-wsudl and on i386 only: xf86-video-geode -- Matthieu Herrb
