Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-10 Thread Aleksej Saushev
mlel...@serpens.de (Michael van Elst) writes: jo...@britannica.bec.de (Joerg Sonnenberger) writes: On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 11:47:01AM -0700, Dennis Ferguson wrote: Asking for ARCNET support in the absence of hardware to test on, however, is really asking for something quite different. Since

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread Andrew Cagney
On 8 June 2015 at 13:18, Anders Magnusson ra...@ludd.ltu.se wrote: David Holland skrev den 2015-06-08 19:06: On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 04:15:15PM +0200, Anders Magnusson wrote: printfing from the back of the front end is definitely totally wrong in other ways that need to be rectified

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread Andrew Cagney
Oops, s/epilogue/prologue/ in below On 8 June 2015 at 15:15, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 07:18:24PM +0200, Anders Magnusson wrote: David Holland skrev den 2015-06-08 19:06: On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 04:15:15PM +0200, Anders Magnusson wrote:

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread Anders Magnusson
Andrew Cagney skrev den 2015-06-08 19:18: I'm clearly out-of-date regarding SSA, its nice to be corrected. No problem :-) On 8 June 2015 at 09:06, Anders Magnusson ra...@ludd.ltu.se wrote: Andrew Cagney skrev den 2015-06-01 20:41: I do not understand why either of those choices need to be

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread David Holland
On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 07:18:24PM +0200, Anders Magnusson wrote: David Holland skrev den 2015-06-08 19:06: On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 04:15:15PM +0200, Anders Magnusson wrote: printfing from the back of the front end is definitely totally wrong in other ways that need to be rectified

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread David Holland
On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 04:15:15PM +0200, Anders Magnusson wrote: printfing from the back of the front end is definitely totally wrong in other ways that need to be rectified first :( Hm, I may be missing something, but what is wrong? Where should you print it out otherwise? I would say

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread Andrew Cagney
I'm clearly out-of-date regarding SSA, its nice to be corrected. On 8 June 2015 at 09:06, Anders Magnusson ra...@ludd.ltu.se wrote: Andrew Cagney skrev den 2015-06-01 20:41: I do not understand why either of those choices need to be taken. Pcc has a reasonable intermediate representation,

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread Anders Magnusson
David Holland skrev den 2015-06-03 07:56: PCC, to the best of my knowledge is still in the [very early] planning stages. One of its design choices would be to go pure SSA. Another option, closer to GCC (RTL), would be to retain existing code-gen passes. Tough choices. I'm not

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread Anders Magnusson
Andrew Cagney skrev den 2015-06-01 17:41: On 1 June 2015 at 02:15, Anders Magnusson ra...@ludd.ltu.se wrote: Andrew Cagney skrev den 2015-06-01 03:24: systems and generates reasonable code. Unfortunately, and sorry PCC (stabs, really?), Feel free to add dwarf, the source is out there, and it

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread Anders Magnusson
Andrew Cagney skrev den 2015-06-01 22:50: Like I mentioned in another reply, I'm being a little fast and loose. The file cc/ccom/scan.l from http://pcc.ludd.ltu.se/fisheye/browse/pcc/pcc/cc/ccom/scan.l?r=1.127 which I'm assuming is the C parser is doing this: #define STABS_LINE(x) if (gflag

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-08 Thread Anders Magnusson
Andrew Cagney skrev den 2015-06-01 20:41: On 1 June 2015 at 12:54, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 01, 2015 at 11:41:38AM -0400, Andrew Cagney wrote: systems and generates reasonable code. Unfortunately, and sorry PCC (stabs, really?), Feel free to add

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-03 Thread Ryota Ozaki
On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Michael van Elst mlel...@serpens.de wrote: jo...@britannica.bec.de (Joerg Sonnenberger) writes: On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 11:47:01AM -0700, Dennis Ferguson wrote: Asking for ARCNET support in the absence of hardware to test on, however, is really asking for

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-03 Thread Andrew Cagney
On 3 June 2015 at 01:56, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 01, 2015 at 02:41:22PM -0400, Andrew Cagney wrote: To my mind, and I'm assuming a pure SSA compiler design, having SSA forces issues like: [...] I'm missing something; SSA is just a style of

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-02 Thread Dennis Ferguson
On 30 May, 2015, at 16:09 , David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: In these cases, keeping the extra old stuff along with its complications during the framework rototilling usually results in a better framework; but it makes the rototilling cost a lot more. As the amount of manpower

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-02 Thread Greg A. Woods
At Tue, 2 Jun 2015 11:47:01 -0700, Dennis Ferguson dennis.c.fergu...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs It's too long an argument, but I think any approach to a multiprocessor network stack that attempts to get there starting with the existing network L2/L3/interface code

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-02 Thread Joerg Sonnenberger
On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 11:47:01AM -0700, Dennis Ferguson wrote: Asking for ARCNET support in the absence of hardware to test on, however, is really asking for something quite different. Since you can't make more than small, mechanical changes to anything and expect it to work without testing

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-02 Thread Michael van Elst
jo...@britannica.bec.de (Joerg Sonnenberger) writes: On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 11:47:01AM -0700, Dennis Ferguson wrote: Asking for ARCNET support in the absence of hardware to test on, however, is really asking for something quite different. Since you can't make more than small, mechanical

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-02 Thread David Holland
On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 11:50:24AM +0100, Justin Cormack wrote: On 31 May 2015 at 00:09, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: I'm saying that, fundamentally, if you want to run gcc4 or gcc5 on a Sparc IPC that you're going to have problems. There is no way around this, except

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-02 Thread David Holland
On Mon, Jun 01, 2015 at 02:41:22PM -0400, Andrew Cagney wrote: To my mind, and I'm assuming a pure SSA compiler design, having SSA forces issues like: [...] I'm missing something; SSA is just a style of program representation. Yes. Lets think of Static Single Assignment as the

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-02 Thread David Holland
On Mon, Jun 01, 2015 at 02:47:39PM -0400, Andrew Cagney wrote: On 1 June 2015 at 13:50, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: but ignoring that -- who (other than apparently the gcc development team) is focusing on burning ram? GNU, this is from the GNU coding standard; to me

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread Anders Magnusson
Andrew Cagney skrev den 2015-06-01 03:24: systems and generates reasonable code. Unfortunately, and sorry PCC (stabs, really?), Feel free to add dwarf, the source is out there, and it wouldn't be especially difficult to do it. I just haven't had time. Stabs was for free :-) -- Ragge

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread Anders Hjalmarsson
On Fri, 29 May 2015 12:22:40 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2015-05-29 08:18, Matt Thomas wrote: I have a Phase IV+ (so I didn't have to much with the physical address) impl ementation but never got around to writing the apps. socket interface is ident ical to DECnet-ULTRIX. DAP is a

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread Simon Burge
Antti Kantee wrote: On 31/05/15 06:05, matthew green wrote: hi Andrew! :) Who is appalled to discover that pc532 support has been removed! In addition to toolchain support, the hardware was near-extinct at the time of removal. That prompted me to turn the old beast on. Apart from

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread Andrew Cagney
On 1 June 2015 at 02:15, Anders Magnusson ra...@ludd.ltu.se wrote: Andrew Cagney skrev den 2015-06-01 03:24: systems and generates reasonable code. Unfortunately, and sorry PCC (stabs, really?), Feel free to add dwarf, the source is out there, and it wouldn't be especially difficult to do

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread David Holland
On Mon, Jun 01, 2015 at 11:41:38AM -0400, Andrew Cagney wrote: systems and generates reasonable code. Unfortunately, and sorry PCC (stabs, really?), Feel free to add dwarf, the source is out there, and it wouldn't be especially difficult to do it. I just haven't had time. Stabs

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread David Holland
On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 09:24:48PM -0400, Andrew Cagney wrote: On 30 May 2015 at 19:09, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: The reason I floated the idea of forking is that an OS that's specifically intended to be a high-quality Unix for older hardware can make a different set

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread Andrew Cagney
On 1 June 2015 at 12:54, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 01, 2015 at 11:41:38AM -0400, Andrew Cagney wrote: systems and generates reasonable code. Unfortunately, and sorry PCC (stabs, really?), Feel free to add dwarf, the source is out there, and it

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread Iain Hibbert
On Mon, 1 Jun 2015, Andrew Cagney wrote: PCC, as a classic C compiler, only generates debug information at -O0. This this is because the stabs code is restricted to the un-optimized code generator path. this is not actually the case btw, and I don't recall it being like that in the last few

Re: Groff (was: Removing ARCNET stuffs)

2015-06-01 Thread tlaronde
On Mon, Jun 01, 2015 at 05:50:07PM +, David Holland wrote: On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 09:24:48PM -0400, Andrew Cagney wrote: (oh and please delete C++ groff, just replace it with that AWK script) which awk script? :-) (quite seriously, I've been looking for a while for an alternative

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread Andrew Cagney
(oh and please delete C++ groff, just replace it with that AWK script) which awk script? :-) (quite seriously, I've been looking for a while for an alternative to groff for typesetting the miscellaneous articles in base. I was thinking of http://doc.cat-v.org/henry_spencer/awf/ which I

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread Andrew Cagney
On 1 June 2015 at 13:50, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: but ignoring that -- who (other than apparently the gcc development team) is focusing on burning ram? GNU, this is from the GNU coding standard; to me it explains some of the design choices I find in many GNU utilities: For

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread J. Lewis Muir
On 5/30/15 6:16 PM, David Holland wrote: My thought is that rather than shim layers we (fsvo we) ought to be aggressively producing an alternative design, with the goal of getting it to the point where application developers take notice instead of robotically following where gnome/kde lead.

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-06-01 Thread Andrew Cagney
On 1 June 2015 at 15:13, Iain Hibbert plu...@ogmig.net wrote: On Mon, 1 Jun 2015, Andrew Cagney wrote: PCC, as a classic C compiler, only generates debug information at -O0. This this is because the stabs code is restricted to the un-optimized code generator path. this is not actually the

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-31 Thread Andrew Cagney
Yes, I'm being hypocritical :-) On 31 May 2015 at 02:05, matthew green m...@eterna.com.au wrote: hi Andrew! :) Who is appalled to discover that pc532 support has been removed! get your GCC and binutils and GDB pals to put the support back in the toolchain and we'll have something to talk

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-31 Thread Andrew Cagney
On 30 May 2015 at 19:09, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: The reason I floated the idea of forking is that an OS that's specifically intended to be a high-quality Unix for older hardware can make a different set of decisions (most notably, it can let C++ go hang) and this allows

re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-31 Thread matthew green
hi Andrew! :) Who is appalled to discover that pc532 support has been removed! get your GCC and binutils and GDB pals to put the support back in the toolchain and we'll have something to talk about :-) note that we've revived the playstation2 port now that its has had its toolchain components

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-31 Thread Justin Cormack
On 31 May 2015 at 00:09, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: I'm saying that, fundamentally, if you want to run gcc4 or gcc5 on a Sparc IPC that you're going to have problems. There is no way around this, except maybe to float a new compiler with the specific goal of both being

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-31 Thread Antti Kantee
On 31/05/15 06:05, matthew green wrote: hi Andrew! :) Who is appalled to discover that pc532 support has been removed! In addition to toolchain support, the hardware was near-extinct at the time of removal. Now, the hardware is no longer near-extinct: http://cpu-ns32k.net/ I used the

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-31 Thread Kamil Rytarowski
Antti Kantee wrote: On 31/05/15 06:05, matthew green wrote: hi Andrew! :) Who is appalled to discover that pc532 support has been removed! In addition to toolchain support, the hardware was near-extinct at the time of removal. Now, the hardware is no longer near-extinct:

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread David Holland
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 12:49:18PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:22:35AM +, David Holland wrote: Because of these trends, I've been thinking for a while now that maybe it's getting to be time to fork. That would allow having one project that intends to stay

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Paul_Koning
On May 29, 2015, at 2:20 PM, Johnny Billquist b...@update.uu.se wrote: On 2015-05-29 16:35, paul_kon...@dell.com wrote: ... DAP would be really nice, but it's complex. But I like the capabilities. I wouldn’t have thought of DAP as all that complex; after all it fits in PDP11 systems.

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Matt Thomas
On May 29, 2015, at 1:31 PM, paul_kon...@dell.com wrote: No, transfering a whole file is a single stream of stuff; reading individual records is a more complex handshake. And apart from that, things get significantly simpler if you only support Sequential files. Simpler still if you

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Gerard Lally
At date and time Fri, 29 May 2015 11:09:08 -0500, J. Lewis Muir wrote: On 5/29/15 5:22 AM, David Holland wrote: Because of these trends, I've been thinking for a while now that maybe it's getting to be time to fork. Hello, David! I started using NetBSD because of its small base system

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Kamil Rytarowski
Johnny Billquist On 2015-05-28 21:19, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote: paul_kon...@dell.com writes: And DECnet nodes exist around the Internet; the “Hobbyist DECnet” group (“hecnet”) is the main focus of that activity as far as I know. ...and while I'm sure Johnny Billquist can supply more

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Johnny Billquist
On 2015-05-30 21:37, David Holland wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 12:49:18PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:22:35AM +, David Holland wrote: Because of these trends, I've been thinking for a while now that maybe it's getting to be time to fork. That would

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Johnny Billquist
On 2015-05-30 00:13, Matt Thomas wrote: On May 29, 2015, at 1:31 PM, paul_kon...@dell.com wrote: No, transfering a whole file is a single stream of stuff; reading individual records is a more complex handshake. And apart from that, things get significantly simpler if you only support

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Paul_Koning
On May 29, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Johnny Billquist b...@update.uu.se wrote: On 2015-05-29 08:18, Matt Thomas wrote: ... I have a Phase IV+ (so I didn’t have to much with the physical address) implementation but never got around to writing the apps. socket interface is identical to

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Johnny Billquist
On 2015-05-29 16:35, paul_kon...@dell.com wrote: On May 29, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Johnny Billquist b...@update.uu.se wrote: On 2015-05-29 08:18, Matt Thomas wrote: ... I have a Phase IV+ (so I didn’t have to much with the physical address) implementation but never got around to writing the

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread David Holland
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 11:05:30PM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote: I would argue that this has happened already - FreeBSD and NetBSD are the results... at least from the outside, this is how it looks like, with FreeBSD focusing on few platforms but modernizing itself quite a bit

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread David Holland
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:45:46PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote: On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 07:37:04PM +, David Holland wrote: I would argue that this has happened already - FreeBSD and NetBSD are the results... at least from the outside, this is how it looks like, with FreeBSD

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Dave Tyson
On 05/29/15 20:15, Gerard Lally wrote: At date and time Fri, 29 May 2015 11:09:08 -0500, J. Lewis Muir wrote: On 5/29/15 5:22 AM, David Holland wrote: Because of these trends, I've been thinking for a while now that maybe it's getting to be time to fork. Hello, David! I started using NetBSD

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread David Holland
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:45:59PM +0100, Dave Tyson wrote: I am with Gerald on this. Having used NetBSD from 0.8 I really appreciate the single source tree for all architectures and the ability to cross build painlessly from different platforms. I also like the community and the fact that

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Andrew Cagney
There's a complex tradeoff here On 29 May 2015 at 12:09, J. Lewis Muir jlm...@imca-cat.org wrote: In Evolving Frameworks, [2] Don Roberts and Ralph Johnson suggest in the Tree Examples pattern that you should never write a software framework unless you have at least three applications that use

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-30 Thread Gert Doering
Hi, On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 07:37:04PM +, David Holland wrote: I would argue that this has happened already - FreeBSD and NetBSD are the results... at least from the outside, this is how it looks like, with FreeBSD focusing on few platforms but modernizing itself quite a bit

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread Matt Thomas
On May 28, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Johnny Billquist b...@update.uu.se wrote: On 2015-05-28 21:19, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote: paul_kon...@dell.com writes: And DECnet nodes exist around the Internet; the “Hobbyist DECnet” group (“hecnet”) is the main focus of that activity as far as I know.

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread Johnny Billquist
On 2015-05-28 21:19, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote: paul_kon...@dell.com writes: And DECnet nodes exist around the Internet; the “Hobbyist DECnet” group (“hecnet”) is the main focus of that activity as far as I know. ...and while I'm sure Johnny Billquist can supply more details, and correct me

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread Tyler Retzlaff
On 5/28/2015 12:39 PM, Robert Swindells wrote: Radoslaw Kujawa radoslaw.kuj...@c0ff33.net wrote: The same arguments might be made against the plan to remove ATM support. I've got no problem with keeping it, removing it isn't really intellectually rewarding I thought it more of a

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread Robert Swindells
David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote: On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 08:06:56PM +0200, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote: Me, too. What NetBSD offers, that no other O/S offers, is the support for platforms that are no longer mainstream. I've run it on Sparc and VAX processors for years, and hope

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread Gert Doering
Hi, On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:22:35AM +, David Holland wrote: Because of these trends, I've been thinking for a while now that maybe it's getting to be time to fork. That would allow having one project that intends to stay current, with all the attendant requirements, which probably

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread David Holland
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 08:06:56PM +0200, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote: Me, too. What NetBSD offers, that no other O/S offers, is the support for platforms that are no longer mainstream. I've run it on Sparc and VAX processors for years, and hope to continue playing with these old machines.

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread Johnny Billquist
On 2015-05-29 08:18, Matt Thomas wrote: On May 28, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Johnny Billquist b...@update.uu.se wrote: On 2015-05-28 21:19, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote: paul_kon...@dell.com writes: And DECnet nodes exist around the Internet; the “Hobbyist DECnet” group (“hecnet”) is the main focus of

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread David Holland
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 05:01:02PM +, paul_kon...@dell.com wrote: But I too find it regrettable and possibly dangerous. One of my copious-spare-time projects is to dig up enough specs to add a DECnet stack to my systems; DECnet phase IV specs are readily available and good

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread Taylor R Campbell
Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 10:22:35 + From: David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org Because of these trends, I've been thinking for a while now that maybe it's getting to be time to fork. That would allow having one project that intends to stay current, with all the attendant

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread Dennis Ferguson
On 28 May, 2015, at 17:57 , Tyler Retzlaff r...@omicron-persei-8.net wrote: On 5/28/2015 12:39 PM, Robert Swindells wrote: Radoslaw Kujawa radoslaw.kuj...@c0ff33.net wrote: The same arguments might be made against the plan to remove ATM support. I've got no problem with keeping it,

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-29 Thread J. Lewis Muir
On 5/29/15 5:22 AM, David Holland wrote: Because of these trends, I've been thinking for a while now that maybe it's getting to be time to fork. Hello, David! I started using NetBSD because of its small base system disk and memory footprint, focus on security, support for many machine

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
mo...@rodents-montreal.org writes: But I too find it regrettable and possibly dangerous. Me, too. What NetBSD offers, that no other O/S offers, is the support for platforms that are no longer mainstream. I've run it on Sparc and VAX processors for years, and hope to continue playing with

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
Taylor R Campbell campbell+netbsd-tech-k...@mumble.net writes: Diversity is great, but only if it is exercised. Yeah, but some of the old stuff is always going to be used off and on, as people with an interest in the particular technology come and go. Ditching support for something the moment

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
paul_kon...@dell.com writes: And DECnet nodes exist around the Internet; the “Hobbyist DECnet” group (“hecnet”) is the main focus of that activity as far as I know. ...and while I'm sure Johnny Billquist can supply more details, and correct me if I'm wrong, DECnet on NetBSD seems to me to be

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Paul_Koning
On May 28, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Mouse mo...@rodents-montreal.org wrote: Support for several legacy protocols was removed in recent years. I fear tha$ To an extent that's inevitable, because so much of the networking world in general is becoming IP- and Ethernet-centric. But I too find it

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Manuel Bouyer
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 05:39:12PM +0100, Robert Swindells wrote: [...] I have been doing a bit of work on cleaning up some old Chaosnet and CAN code recently. Do you have some CAN code available ? I'm interested (especially J1939) -- Manuel Bouyer bou...@antioche.eu.org NetBSD: 26 ans

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Ryota Ozaki
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 1:53 AM, Taylor R Campbell campbell+netbsd-tech-k...@mumble.net wrote: Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 17:39:12 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Swindells r...@fdy2.co.uk Support for several legacy protocols was removed in recent years. I fear that our networking stack is

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Frank Wille
On Thu, 28 May 2015 11:57:11 +0900 Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: As far as I can see Arcnet is only used by the Amiga bah(4) driver. Isn't it possible to keep it somehow, as an MP-safe network stack would be irrelevant for the Amiga platform? We could keep it with some pain, but

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Ryota Ozaki
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Frank Wille fr...@phoenix.owl.de wrote: On Thu, 28 May 2015 11:57:11 +0900 Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: As far as I can see Arcnet is only used by the Amiga bah(4) driver. Isn't it possible to keep it somehow, as an MP-safe network stack would be

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Radoslaw Kujawa
On 28 May 2015, at 10:30, Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Frank Wille fr...@phoenix.owl.de wrote: On Thu, 28 May 2015 11:57:11 +0900 Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: As far as I can see Arcnet is only used by the Amiga bah(4) driver. Isn't it

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Robert Swindells
Radoslaw Kujawa radoslaw.kuj...@c0ff33.net wrote: On 28 May 2015, at 10:30, Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Frank Wille fr...@phoenix.owl.de wrote: On Thu, 28 May 2015 11:57:11 +0900 Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: As far as I can see Arcnet

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Mouse
Support for several legacy protocols was removed in recent years. I fear tha$ To an extent that's inevitable, because so much of the networking world in general is becoming IP- and Ethernet-centric. But I too find it regrettable and possibly dangerous. One of my copious-spare-time projects is

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-28 Thread Taylor R Campbell
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 17:39:12 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Swindells r...@fdy2.co.uk Support for several legacy protocols was removed in recent years. I fear that our networking stack is becoming more and more IP and Ethernet centric. It isn't as bad as the Linux stack yet but I

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-27 Thread Marc Balmer
Am 26.05.15 um 09:20 schrieb Ryota Ozaki: Hi, The next sacrifice is ARCNET. It seems it hasn't been used for long years (7 years or more): http://mail-index.netbsd.org/source-changes/2015/05/22/msg066175.html So I'm trying to remove them but the target files are much more than I had

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-27 Thread Ryota Ozaki
On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Frank Wille fr...@phoenix.owl.de wrote: On Tue, 26 May 2015 16:20:09 +0900 Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: The next sacrifice is ARCNET. It seems it hasn't been used for long years (7 years or more):

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-27 Thread Frank Wille
On Wed, 27 May 2015 18:18:06 +0900 Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: What are the reasons behind removing working parts from the source tree anyway? Aren't there more important things to do? We're working on making the network stack MP-safe and runnable in parallel. That requires an

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-27 Thread Frank Wille
On Tue, 26 May 2015 16:20:09 +0900 Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: The next sacrifice is ARCNET. It seems it hasn't been used for long years (7 years or more): http://mail-index.netbsd.org/source-changes/2015/05/22/msg066175.html So I'm trying to remove them but the target files are

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-27 Thread Ryota Ozaki
On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Frank Wille fr...@phoenix.owl.de wrote: On Wed, 27 May 2015 18:18:06 +0900 Ryota Ozaki ozak...@netbsd.org wrote: What are the reasons behind removing working parts from the source tree anyway? Aren't there more important things to do? We're working on

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-26 Thread Ryota Ozaki
On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Tyler Retzlaff r...@netbsd.org wrote: On 5/26/2015 5:46 PM, Michael van Elst wrote: ozak...@netbsd.org (Ryota Ozaki) writes: The next sacrifice is ARCNET. It seems it hasn't been used for long years (7 years or more): I wish people would put more energy

Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-26 Thread Ryota Ozaki
Hi, The next sacrifice is ARCNET. It seems it hasn't been used for long years (7 years or more): http://mail-index.netbsd.org/source-changes/2015/05/22/msg066175.html So I'm trying to remove them but the target files are much more than I had expected (see the bellow diffstat). Please stop me if

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-26 Thread Michael van Elst
ozak...@netbsd.org (Ryota Ozaki) writes: The next sacrifice is ARCNET. It seems it hasn't been used for long years (7 years or more): I wish people would put more energy in creating things than destroying things they are not interested in. -- -- Michael van

Re: Removing ARCNET stuffs

2015-05-26 Thread Tyler Retzlaff
On 5/26/2015 5:46 PM, Michael van Elst wrote: ozak...@netbsd.org (Ryota Ozaki) writes: The next sacrifice is ARCNET. It seems it hasn't been used for long years (7 years or more): I wish people would put more energy in creating things than destroying things they are not interested in. i