On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 18:41 -0400, Richard Ryniker wrote:
since the current justification for having stable releases at all
is 'to handle upgrade cases we can't handle with yum'
What about installation from media such as DVD for users who cannot
reasonably access more than a gigabyte of
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 03:41 +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
The decision to reject this feature certainly was a lesson in killing
momentum which we will never reach again.
JBG
Ps.
Yes I'm pissed and I have every right to be I eventually will
get over it and so will you
On 09/15/2010 11:24 AM, Michal Jaegermann wrote:
There is one big difference though. Upstart does work and for a
naive user this detail that /sbin/upstart handles sysvinit job is
not really visible. In the case of systemd this works mostly.
Definitely much better now than when it showed up
2010/9/15 Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com:
On 09/15/2010 11:24 AM, Michal Jaegermann wrote:
There is one big difference though. Upstart does work and for a
naive user this detail that /sbin/upstart handles sysvinit job is
not really visible. In the case of systemd this works mostly.
2010/9/15 Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com:
The decision to reject this feature certainly was a lesson in killing
momentum which we will never reach again.
This is how I also feel. By trying to make Fedora shiny, polished and
super-cautious against breaking things we're just creating
2010/9/15 Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com:
2010/9/15 Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com:
The decision to reject this feature certainly was a lesson in killing
momentum which we will never reach again.
This is how I also feel. By trying to make Fedora shiny, polished and
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 10:27 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
* Fedora documentation, especially the longer guides to be updated to
cover systemd extensively
Please point me to a similar document written for Upstart.
It doesn't really need one, because it behaves exactly as SysV init did.
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 09:36 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
2010/9/15 Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com:
The decision to reject this feature certainly was a lesson in killing
momentum which we will never reach again.
This is how I also feel. By trying to make Fedora shiny, polished and
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 10:27 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
* system-config-services needs to work with systemd native units
Does it work with native Upstart jobs?
Again, doesn't matter; we never used any by
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 14:09 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 10:27 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
* system-config-services needs to work with systemd native units
Does it work with native Upstart
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 14:09 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 10:27 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
* system-config-services
Once upon a time, Micha³ Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com said:
Please point me to a similar document written for Upstart.
Please stop comparing everything to what was done for Upstart. That was
done in a different set of circumstances, and for almost everything,
Upstart was done in a backwards
Once upon a time, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com said:
* since s-c-services uses chkconfig, chkconfig needs to be hooked up to
systemctl
IMHO this just needs to be the common-use cases for chkconfig (on, off,
--list). The --add, --del, --level, and other options are not things
that most
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 06:46 +0100, Adam Williamson wrote:
I do wish, though, Bill, that FESCo could have come through with this
decision sooner; on a project basis it really does cut things rather
fine for rolling RC1, and on a personal basis I could have not bothered
with about seven hours
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 09:36 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
2010/9/15 Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com:
The decision to reject this feature certainly was a lesson in killing
momentum which we will never reach again.
This is how I also feel. By trying to make Fedora shiny, polished and
On 09/15/2010 03:35 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
I think we all realize that the timing was exceedingly bad on this.
I think we should try to distill some lessons from this for how we
approach 'invasive' features in the future.
If the vore was as close as it was in this case, it begs the
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:53:36 +0530,
Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com wrote:
Since, I am a co-maintainer of systemd and watching bugs flow through,
I think we need a more concrete list of what is missing/needs to be
fixed for this to be acceptable for Fedora 15. I think, off the top
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 15:41 +0200, Jan Wildeboer wrote:
On 09/15/2010 03:35 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
I think we all realize that the timing was exceedingly bad on this.
I think we should try to distill some lessons from this for how we
approach 'invasive' features in the future.
If
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 08:42 -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
This should cover how to add new services. I needed to start svscanboot
at boot. This used to be something in inittab, that I needed to futz
with for upstart. It didn't seem to work in rc.local and when I tried
reading the systemd
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:53:36AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Since, I am a co-maintainer of systemd and watching bugs flow through,
I think we need a more concrete list of what is missing/needs to be
fixed for this to be acceptable for Fedora 15. I think, off the top of
my head, I would
drago01 (drag...@gmail.com) said:
nitpick That's not true /nitpick
(We do ship some native upstart services by default)
Which?
readahead and system-setup-keyboard ... and probably others I can't
think of right now.
Those aren't services in the classic sense. They're boot processes,
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 11:50:14 -0400
Bill Nottingham wrote:
I do too. I suspect for situations like this we at a minimum need to
adopt a more formal process for pulling feedback/votes/whatever outside
of the meeting timeframe, whether it's calling a special session, enforcing
a 'you must vote
Tom Horsley wrote:
You left out removing the fanatical devotion to releasing every six months
:-). I've really never understood that one. Why is virtually everything
subordinate to getting a release out at an artificial deadline? Why not
just release when there appears to be enough things
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:10:12AM -0600, Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
Excellent point. F13 may be a great release for developers, but for
consumers it is a real dud. It doesn't offer anything new or different,
just the promise or allure of some background stability issues resolved,
perhaps.
Matthew Miller wrote:
What was F14 with systemd going to offer that's new or different for
consumers?
I guess I can't truly answer that, except for the fact that it was promising
and seeming to deliver faster booting. I turn off my computer when I go out and
at night, since I have to pay for
since the current justification for having stable releases at all
is 'to handle upgrade cases we can't handle with yum'
What about installation from media such as DVD for users who cannot
reasonably access more than a gigabyte of updates from the Net?
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On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:24:47PM +0100, Adam Williamson wrote:
...or, since the current justification for having stable releases at all
is 'to handle upgrade cases we can't handle with yum', have a new stable
release only when we hit such a case (and try to hit as few such cases
as
On 09/15/2010 06:45 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
I think service should also be hooked up so that it continues to work
for all services (this may be done already, but I've been out of town
and busy with a couple of projects and unable to test lately). Again,
the common uses (start, stop, restart,
So, fesco seem to have voted not to take systemd for f14 in the meeting
today. this means we'll need to revert to upstart for Beta, which gives
us a tight schedule for Beta RC1. Bill Nottingham says he'll work on the
reversion, but it'll need testing; this is a heads-up that if people can
plan to
Are there any plans to maintain systemd F14 repo for people who want
to help in testing?
Regards,
M
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On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 00:20 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
Are there any plans to maintain systemd F14 repo for people who want
to help in testing?
I believe the systemd package will still be in the distro and you'll be
able to use it by booting with 'init=/bin/systemd' as a kernel
parameter,
2010/9/15 Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com:
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 00:20 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
Are there any plans to maintain systemd F14 repo for people who want
to help in testing?
I believe the systemd package will still be in the distro and you'll be
able to use it by
On 09/15/2010 12:20 AM, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
Are there any plans to maintain systemd F14 repo for people who want
to help in testing?
Regards,
M
Yes, I want to ask the same question.
I had only minor problems with systemd and I'd like to keep it. IMO In
case it will be impossible to
Vaclav Misek wrote:
I had only minor problems with systemd and I'd like to keep it.
I had no problems that come to mind and I'd like to keep it.
Please explain explicitly how consumers can continue to use it, rather than
regressing: grub kernel parameters, other required settings to maintain
2010/9/15 Petrus de Calguarium pguec...@gmail.com:
Vaclav Misek wrote:
I had only minor problems with systemd and I'd like to keep it.
I had no problems that come to mind and I'd like to keep it.
Please explain explicitly how consumers can continue to use it, rather than
regressing: grub
On 09/14/2010 09:46 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
So, fesco seem to have voted not to take systemd for f14 in the meeting
today.
Unwise decision.
It's going to be interesting to see in the near future what fesco will
slip through..
JBG
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Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
Unwise decision.
Yes, disappointing decision, to be sure.
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On 09/14/2010 11:17 PM, Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
Unwise decision.
Yes, disappointing decision, to be sure.
Yeah that too..
Everything involving this feature was done by the book and then some and
for some reason the treatment and it's author that this
Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-gfeature=related
You have a sense of humour :-))
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On Tue, 2010-09-14 at 23:24 +0100, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 00:20 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
Are there any plans to maintain systemd F14 repo for people who want
to help in testing?
I believe the systemd package will still be in the distro and you'll be
able to
2010/9/15 Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com:
I expect systemd development to move to rawhide now. Not sure how much
sense it makes to keep developing systemd in f14
It seems to me that many F14 users would like try/test it.
, in particular since
the thing that was perceived as lacking was
Micha� Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) said:
, in particular since
the thing that was perceived as lacking was mostly system integration.
???
I do not understand this argument. Upstart is still lacking of system
integration. All scripts are sysvinit style, so it's not integrated.
So
On 09/15/2010 02:26 AM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Hypothetical example:
- F-14 has systemd-10 in the repo
- there's some bug in an included systemd service file in an app that
needs fixed.
- oops, to do that right requires an updated systemd package, say, version 12
- the version of that
On 09/15/2010 09:11 AM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
On 09/15/2010 02:26 AM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Hypothetical example:
- F-14 has systemd-10 in the repo
- there's some bug in an included systemd service file in an app that
needs fixed.
- oops, to do that right requires an updated
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