Re: [tex-hyphen] Word-division in British English

[Barbara Beeton]

Hallo Barbara, copy Dominik --

Barbara Beeton wrote:
>
> Just a note to say we've had a positive reply from OUP.  While it's 
not nailed down yet, it looks as if OUP may be willing to give a non-commercial 
licence for their British word-break list to the UK TUG.  I'll keep this group 
posted.
>
>  
>
> that's super, dominik!  thanks for the news.
>
> a new supplement to the u.s. exception list appears in
> the just-published tugboat issue, but I haven't yet put
> together the update for ctan.  would it be appropriate
> to add a note mentioning the vast change in british
> practice between the patterns currently on ctan and
> tex live, and the more recent version of the dictionary,
> and say that efforts are underway to obtain permission
> to update the patterns from the latest dictionary?

I do not think that we should /update/ the patterns -- just as with 
DEK's US version, once released, never changed.  What (I think) we plan to do 
is to offer new, optional, patterns, that will reflect OED's idea of "current 
practice".  I for one will stick with the old ones :-)

well, that's actually what I meant -- add "-" to the
name of the file,  being the year of publication of
the "new" dictionary.  that follows the convention used
for the changed german patterns.  (I would *never*
advocate eliminating such a core component!  I know
you know that, but agreed, other people might not.
thanks for insisting on clarification.)
-- bb

Re: [tex-hyphen] Word-division in British English

[Arthur Reutenauer]

>would it be appropriate
> to add a note mentioning the vast change in british
> practice between the patterns currently on ctan and
> tex live, and the more recent version of the dictionary,
> and say that efforts are underway to obtain permission
> to update the patterns from the latest dictionary?

  Yes, as far as I’m concerned.

Best,

Arthur

Re: [tex-hyphen] Word-division in British English

[Philip Taylor]

Hallo Barbara, copy Dominik --

Barbara Beeton wrote:
>
> Just a note to say we've had a positive reply from OUP.  While it's not 
> nailed down yet, it looks as if OUP may be willing to give a non-commercial 
> licence for their British word-break list to the UK TUG.  I'll keep this 
> group posted.
>
>  
>
> that's super, dominik!  thanks for the news.
>
> a new supplement to the u.s. exception list appears in
>
> the just-published tugboat issue, but I haven't yet put
>
> together the update for ctan.  would it be appropriate
>
> to add a note mentioning the vast change in british
>
> practice between the patterns currently on ctan and
>
> tex live, and the more recent version of the dictionary,
>
> and say that efforts are underway to obtain permission
>
> to update the patterns from the latest dictionary?
>

I do not think that we should /update/ the patterns -- just as with DEK's US 
version, once released, never changed.  What (I think) we plan to do is to 
offer new, optional, patterns, that will reflect OED's idea of "current 
practice".  I for one will stick with the old ones :-)

** Phil.

Re: [tex-hyphen] Word-division in British English

[Barbara Beeton]

Just a note to say we've had a positive reply from OUP.  While it's not nailed 
down yet, it looks as if OUP may be willing to give a non-commercial licence 
for their British word-break list to the UK TUG.  I'll keep this group posted.

that's super, dominik!  thanks for the news.
a new supplement to the u.s. exception list appears in
the just-published tugboat issue, but I haven't yet put
together the update for ctan.  would it be appropriate
to add a note mentioning the vast change in british
practice between the patterns currently on ctan and
tex live, and the more recent version of the dictionary,
and say that efforts are underway to obtain permission
to update the patterns from the latest dictionary?

cheers. -- bb

Re: [tex-hyphen] Word-division in British English

[Arthur Reutenauer]

> Just a note to say we've had a positive reply from OUP.  While it's not
> nailed down yet, it looks as if OUP may be willing to give a non-commercial
> licence for their British word-break list to the UK TUG.  I'll keep this
> group posted.

  Excellent, thanks for your efforts!  Looking forward to the details of
the agreement.  And the word list! :-)

Best,

Arthur

Re: [tex-hyphen] Word-division in British English

[Dominik Wujastyk]

Just a note to say we've had a positive reply from OUP.  While it's not
nailed down yet, it looks as if OUP may be willing to give a non-commercial
licence for their British word-break list to the UK TUG.  I'll keep this
group posted.

On Wed, 4 Apr 2018 at 16:50, Arthur Reutenauer <
arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org> wrote:

>   On step further :-)
>
> Arthur
>

Re: [tex-hyphen] Word-division in British English

[Arthur Reutenauer]

  On step further :-)

Arthur

Re: [tex-hyphen] Word-division in British English

[Dominik Wujastyk]

Thank you very much!  I hope for a fruitful communication with the people
at OUP.

Sincerely,
Dominik Wujastyk

​
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk 
​,​

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
​,​

Department of History and Classics 
​,​
University of Alberta, Canada
​.​

South Asia at the U of A:

​sas.ualberta.ca​
​​


On 4 April 2018 at 10:54, Chair  wrote:

> Dear Professor Dominik Wujastyk
>
> Thank you for your message. The SfEP is not a co-author if the book you
> mention, but I forwarded your enquiry to one of my contacts in senior
> management at OUP and she will sent it on to somebody better able to help
> you.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Sabine Citron
>
> Sabine Citron
> Chair
> Society for Editors and Proofreaders
> Apsley House
> 176 Upper Richmond Road
> 
> London SW15 2SH
> 
> www.sfep.org.uk
>
> On 4 April 2018 at 17:32, Dominik Wujastyk  wrote:
>
>> Dear Prof. Citron,
>>
>> I am writing to you as Chair of the SfEP, because the SfEP is named as a
>> main contributor to the *New Oxford Spelling Dictionary *(2005, ISBN
>> 978-0-19-956999-1).
>>
>> In the 1991, as a member of the UK TeX Users Group, I collaborated with
>> colleagues in developing a set of word-division rules specifically for
>> British English, for use with the TeX typesetting software.  This software
>> is widely used, especially by authors and typesetters dealing with complex
>> documents.
>>
>> The word-division rules were based on a list of about 150,000 hyphenated
>> words that was kindly shared with us by Andrew Rosenheim, then Director of
>> OUP's Electronic Publishing department, and Ruth Glynn, who also worked in
>> the same department.  The word division broadly mirrored those published in
>> Robert Allen's *Minidictionary of Spelling and Word Division *(1986 and
>> later eds.).
>>
>> The UK TeX Users Group undertook not to share the original list of OUP's
>> hyphenated words, but only the compiled, machine-readable code used
>> internally by TeX.  The results were of great satisfaction to many British
>> authors and typesetters, and I believe produced goodwill on all sides.
>>
>> I recently had the opportunity to study the *New Oxford Spelling
>> Dictionary*, and I see that many word-division points are different from
>> those published in the Allen *Minidictionary*, and also those given by
>> the OUP-derived TeX hyphenation algorithm.  Evidently, usage has evolved in
>> the last two or three decades, as one could expect.
>>
>> The TeX community is now interested in updating TeX's British hyphenation
>> patterns to match those in the New Oxford Spelling Dictionary.  We would
>> like to contact someone at OUP who has the authority to discuss this matter
>> with us, and to offer a copyright release if it is deemed appropriate.
>>
>> Can you help to put us in touch with the appropriate person?
>>
>> With best wishes,
>> Dominik Wujastyk
>>
>> and
>> Dr Phil Taylor (UK TeX Users Group custodian of the TeX British
>> Hyphenation project)
>>
>> ​
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk 
>> ​,​
>>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ​,​
>>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> 
>> ​,​
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> ​.​
>>
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>>
>> ​sas.ualberta.ca​
>> ​​
>>
>>
>