The bolting of caves in Yorkshire is provided/overseen by the CNCC. It is
funded by them (thru dues, I guess) and thru the sale of publications. See:
http://www.cncc.org.uk/anchors/index.php
With a geographically small area, unlike the US, it is possible to make this
happen. Before the program was instituted we did have an issue of over bolting
of some caves, but now-a-days this program is well received. Initially there
was some resistance but fortunately the founders pressed ahead and made it
happen.
Cheers,
Stefan
-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of
Mark Minton via Texascavers
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 7:36 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tags for Rigging Anchors
Such ID tags for anchors have been discussed many times over the years, but
I've never seen them implemented. I don't know why - probably too much trouble
to coordinate, produce and distribute such tags.
The circumstances where rigging tags would be useful are variable. In an
on-going project, there is usually enough institutional memory to know at least
roughly when anchors were set and how good they are. In all of the projects I
have been involved with in the last 20 years or so, we have adopted stainless
steel bolts, hangers and quick links. As long as stainless anchors are set
properly and kept tight, they last essentially forever. In these situations,
tags are not needed.
In popular sport caves, on the other hand, one typically has no idea where
anchors came from. This is the situation where some sort of ID would be most
useful, but unless one group took it upon themselves to rig and maintain
permanent anchors on specific routes, there would be no consistency or trust
engendered. This leads to bolt forests at pitch heads and rapid depletion of
optimal rigging sites.
In order to prevent such a proliferation of bolts, there has been a program
in England and perhaps elsewhere in Europe to install long glue-in anchors on
popular underground routes. These are well-publicized so that people know they
are reliable. Even then, I don't know whether or not they put ID tags on those
anchors. Another consideration is who pays for such anchors. They aren't cheap.
The reality is that no matter whether there is a tag or not, stainless,
glue-in or whatever, there will always be people who do not trust an anchor
they have no personal knowledge of. In caves with no access control, I think
bolt proliferation is likely inevitable, especially given that they are now so
easy to install with power drills.
Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net
On Sun, October 25, 2015 12:04 pm, Robert B via Texascavers wrote:
>
> Seeking opinions...
>
> Within the greater vertical caving community... what are peoples
> opinion to adding a "Tag Plate" to rigging anchors. Especially in a
> cave where a route may justify using or placing rigging at same
> general location.
>
> The Tag Plate would be made from an aluminum strip (maybe another
> material ???) and have such information as placement date, bolt
> manufacturer, type, diameter, depth. Anchor information could be put
> on there too, but may not be needed as one can more easily inspect the
> anchor.
>
> Maybe add a 'Tag #' that could be included in survey notes and map.
>
> This 'Tag Plate' would attach to the anchor/bolt in some manner as to
> not obstruct use. Some sort of wire maybe??? Think heavy industry.
> Every piece of equipment is Tagged.
>
> If a project agrees ahead of time to use the same type of bolts and
> anchors, then Tags could be made ahead of time and installed as
> rigging crew sets each point.
>
> Consider this...
> You are on the rigging team. You come to a point in a cave where you
> must set some anchors.
> You notice three (3) other full sets of anchors.They may be in very
> good looking condition and the location is perfect... BUT???
> Who set these?
> When or how old are they?
> What kind of bolt did they use?
> Is the bolt deep enough, strong enough?
> Is it stainless? Galvanized?
> Is there corrosion due to dissimilar metals that I cant see?
>
> Would a 'Tag' help you in these situations?
> Other info to add to Tag?
>
> Rob Bisset
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