texascavers Digest 4 Jan 2014 17:14:51 -0000 Issue 1908
Topics (messages 23210 through 23217):
Re: Longhorn Caverns SP Project Rides Off Into The Sunset
23210 by: texascav...@yahoo.com
23211 by: texascav...@yahoo.com
Bigfoot
23212 by: David
23213 by: Steve Keselik
23214 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
23215 by: Mark Minton
23216 by: Bill Bentley
23217 by: vivbone.att.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Jon!
Mark, by sheer dumb luck, somehow managed to send this from his Virgin Mobile
Android-Powered Device
----- Reply message -----
From: "Jon Cradit" <jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org>
To: "Mark Alman" <texascav...@yahoo.com>, "texascavers@texascavers.com"
<texascavers@texascavers.com>
Subject: [Texascavers] Longhorn Caverns SP Project Rides Off Into The Sunset
Date: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 4:18 PM
Mark,
I would like to thank you for all you have done for the last several years.
Being the coordinator between the TPWD, the concessionaire, and the cavers and
scout groups. You have done a bang-up job.
Let me raise a Blind Salamander beer in toast to you.
Jon Cradit
From: Mark Alman [mailto:texascav...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 3:54 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Longhorn Caverns SP Project Rides Off Into The Sunset
Merry Christmas and Happy 2014, y'all!
I have had a few inquiries as to the status of the Longhorn Caverns SP Project.
At this point, I have decided to put it in the "Completed" or, at least, "On
Hiatus" state of things.
The TPWD folks, the concessionaire at the park, and the project folks had a "to
do" list at the park and, to the best of my knowledge, all have been completed.
This past spring, the TPWD crews did a superb job on repairing the dangerous
trail areas in the cave, replacing and, in some cases, installing new handrails,
repainting other handrails, and an excellent job of cleaning up after
themselves. This, after switching all of the lighting in the cave from
incandescent to LED the winter and spring before.
The Project had a
very long laundry list and it has been completed, as well, except for
additional mapping in the back areas of the cave, near the Crownover entrance.
This entrance still remains inaccessible, due to a new landowner and
permissions to access the cave via
this passageway have yet to be resolved.
Hopefully, someday, the additional survey points and data collected by the
various surveys will be added to the Longhorn Caverns map and we will have a
completed
and thorough idea of the total length and lay of the cave! I would love to be
able to present this completed map to the park, someday!
Highlights of the Project leader list include improvements and restoration of
the Lovers Lane area, and removal of dead fall, cedar, and other unsightly
underbush
in the sinkhole near the Visitors Center, and pushing leads in the Lumbago
Alley section. Numerous other smaller projects were completed and I'd rather
not list them all or bore you with them here.
Some of the folks I would like to thank, in no particular order, are: Lyndon
Tiu, Gerry Geletzke, Natasha Glasgow, Daniel Ramirez, Bill Larson, Edwin Lehr,
George-Paul Richman, Mallory Mayeux, Andrew Alman, Allison Alman, Chris Franke,
Leslie Bell, Jim Sheets, and a cast of hundreds of others who have come out to
help and my feeble memory can't recall!
Some of the groups I'd like to offer a HUGE thank you are the Aggie
Speleological Association and the Greater Houston Grotto.
The Aggies, especially, were the hardest working, most enthusiastic, and
hardest partying bunch I have ever been associated with and the success of this
project,
Pre and Post ICS, would not have been possible without their participation!
Finally, I would like to thank ALL of the Boy Scout Troops that have come out
to volunteer and to camp. They performed a huge service to the park,plus, a
BUNCH
of new youth received their first taste of caving and many have gone off to
become more involved.
(Why more cavers prefer to NOT work with Scout and other youth groups is beyond
me! They are a great resource of labor and deep pool of potential new cavers.
Refusal to work with them has puzzled me for 18 years and y'all know who you
are!)
In closing, to all of you who have come out to help on the project since 2008,
either for just one weekend or for several weekends, I salute and thank you!
I will always remember the fun times, hard work, evening meals (at the Park or
at The Bluebonnet Cafe in Marble Falls), and the stargazing and camaraderie up
in the Observation Tower on Saturday nights!
To those of you who never made it out, y'all missed a VERY special project!
If it gets resurrected or a special task at the park comes along, I'll be sure
to let y'all know!
Thanks and hats off!
Mark Alman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Lyndon! You were a huge part of its success.
Mark, by sheer dumb luck, somehow managed to send this from his Virgin Mobile
Android-Powered Device
----- Reply message -----
From: "Lyndon Tiu" <l...@alumni.sfu.ca>
To: "Cavers Texas" <texascavers@texascavers.com>, "GHG"
<greater_houston_gro...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Texascavers] Longhorn Caverns SP Project Rides Off Into The Sunset
Date: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 4:15 PM
Salute to you too Mark for being our fearless leader. For starting the project
back in 2008, for negotiating cave and camping access and for organizing
project work that got many cavers old and new into caving those many fun
weekend work trips.
I would like to mention that part of the work at Longhorn involved digging at
the Crownover entrance to allow groups from the ICS 2009 to go on a one-way
trip through the cave. The multi-weekend digs were a huge success and we
brought many groups through the cave during ICS 2009. Many of those who went
through had one common thing to say after the trip: "We have never been this
muddy before!" Of course they were happy to say that.
I have many good memories of the project. Till next time.
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Mark Alman <texascav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Merry Christmas and Happy 2014, y'all!
I have had a few inquiries as to the status of the Longhorn Caverns SP Project.
At this point, I have decided to put it in the "Completed" or, at least, "On
Hiatus" state of things.
The TPWD folks, the concessionaire at the park, and the project folks had a "to
do" list at the park and, to the best of my
knowledge, all have been completed.
This past spring, the TPWD crews did a superb job on repairing the dangerous
trail areas in the cave, replacing and, in some cases, installing new
handrails, repainting other handrails, and an excellent job of cleaning up
after themselves. This, after switching all of the lighting in the cave from
incandescent to LED the winter and spring before.
The Project had a very long laundry list and it has been completed, as well,
except for additional mapping in the back areas of the cave, near the Crownover
entrance. This entrance still remains inaccessible, due to a new landowner and
permissions to access the cave via this passageway have yet to be resolved.
Hopefully, someday, the additional survey points and data collected by the
various surveys will be added to the Longhorn Caverns map and we will have a
completed and thorough idea of the total length and lay of the cave! I would
love to be able to present this completed map to the park, someday!
Highlights of the Project leader list include improvements and restoration of
the Lovers Lane area, and removal of dead fall, cedar, and other unsightly
underbush in the sinkhole near the Visitors Center, and
pushing leads in the Lumbago Alley section. Numerous other smaller projects
were completed and I'd rather not list them all or bore you with them here.
Some of the folks I would like to thank, in no particular order, are: Lyndon
Tiu, Gerry Geletzke, Natasha Glasgow, Daniel Ramirez, Bill Larson, Edwin Lehr,
George-Paul Richman, Mallory Mayeux, Andrew Alman, Allison Alman, Chris Franke,
Leslie Bell, Jim Sheets, and a cast of hundreds of others who have come out to
help and my feeble memory can't recall!
Some of the groups I'd like to offer a HUGE thank you are the Aggie
Speleological Association and the Greater Houston Grotto.
The Aggies, especially, were the hardest working, most enthusiastic, and
hardest partying bunch I have ever been associated with and the success of this
project, Pre and Post ICS, would not have been possible without their
participation!
Finally, I would like to thank ALL of the Boy Scout Troops that have come out
to volunteer and to camp. They performed a huge service to the park,plus, a
BUNCH of new youth received their first taste of caving and many have gone off
to become more involved.
(Why more cavers prefer to NOT work with Scout and other youth groups is beyond
me! They are a great resource of labor and deep pool of potential new cavers.
Refusal to work with them has puzzled me for 18 years and y'all know who you
are!)
In closing, to all of you who have come out
to help on the project since 2008, either for just one weekend or for several
weekends, I salute and thank you!
I will always remember the fun times, hard work, evening meals (at the Park or
at The Bluebonnet Cafe in Marble Falls), and the stargazing and camaraderie up
in the Observation Tower on Saturday nights!
To those of you who never made it out, y'all missed a VERY special project!
If it gets resurrected or a special task at the park comes along, I'll be sure
to let y'all know!
Thanks and hats off!
Mark Alman
--
Lyndon Tiu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A caver in the San Antonio area once told me ( while sittiing around the
camp-fire in 1995 ) that they were in a cave in or near Bexar County
and saw claw marks on the wall, that were made by an animal that
appeared to be taller than a man and appeared the animal was trying to
climb out of the cave. I think he said it was a short pit
entrance, and there were no bones in the cave of such animal.
My fuzzy memory is that in this conversation he mentioned a Chivos Cave, but
I don't know if that was the one he was referring to.
I think he said there were 4 scratch marks on each hand though.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some years back in Powell's cave we were hoping to find a shorter route to
the stream passage via the maze. We didn't find any dig sites that looked
promising but we did note some scratch marks about 4' up on the wall that
looked like a small animal was trying to get out of the water as they all
were in a horizontal line. If that was the case then that means there was
water pretty high in the cave, In retrospect maybe it was just bat marks
but the line was very straight with no projections to grab on to....Steve
On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 2:47 AM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A caver in the San Antonio area once told me ( while sittiing around the
> camp-fire in 1995 ) that they were in a cave in or near Bexar County
> and saw claw marks on the wall, that were made by an animal that
> appeared to be taller than a man and appeared the animal was trying to
> climb out of the cave. I think he said it was a short pit
> entrance, and there were no bones in the cave of such animal.
>
> My fuzzy memory is that in this conversation he mentioned a Chivos Cave,
> but
> I don't know if that was the one he was referring to.
>
> I think he said there were 4 scratch marks on each hand though.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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--- Begin Message ---
Bear? I've found bear bones in SA caves and there was even a sighting in a
local park a few years back.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 4, 2014, at 2:47 AM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A caver in the San Antonio area once told me ( while sittiing around the
> camp-fire in 1995 ) that they were in a cave in or near Bexar County
> and saw claw marks on the wall, that were made by an animal that
> appeared to be taller than a man and appeared the animal was trying to
> climb out of the cave. I think he said it was a short pit
> entrance, and there were no bones in the cave of such animal.
>
> My fuzzy memory is that in this conversation he mentioned a Chivos Cave, but
> I don't know if that was the one he was referring to.
>
> I think he said there were 4 scratch marks on each hand though.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree with Andy that the marks David mentioned are likely
from a bear. I've seen such marks in several caves in Virginia and
West Virginia, often quite far from any known entrance and also not
associated with any bones. We've also found large wallows in mud
floors that are said to be where bears slept. These signs seem to be
more common than I would have imagined.
The marks Steve mentioned in Powell's are likely from a
raccoon. We found marks like that several places in Honey Creek, also
far from any known entrance. Of course it doesn't take much of an
entrance for a raccoon, as opposed to a bear...
Mark
At 11:05 AM 1/4/2014, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote:
Bear? I've found bear bones in SA caves and there was even a
sighting in a local park a few years back.
At 10:42 AM 1/4/2014, Steve Keselik wrote:
Some years back in Powell's cave we were hoping to find a shorter
route to the stream passage via the maze. We didn't find any dig
sites that looked promising but we did note some scratch marks about
4' up on the wall that looked like a small animal was trying to get
out of the water as they all were in a horizontal line. If that was
the case then that means there was water pretty high in the cave, In
retrospect maybe it was just bat marks but the line was very
straight with no projections to grab on to....Steve
On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 2:47 AM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
A caver in the San Antonio area once told me ( while sittiing around the
camp-fire in 1995 ) that they were in a cave in or near Bexar County
and saw claw marks on the wall, that were made by an animal that
appeared to be taller than a man and appeared the animal was trying to
climb out of the cave. I think he said it was a short pit
entrance, and there were no bones in the cave of such animal.
My fuzzy memory is that in this conversation he mentioned a Chivos Cave, but
I don't know if that was the one he was referring to.
I think he said there were 4 scratch marks on each hand though.
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Giant Mealy Mouth Ground Sloth.....extinct
On Jan 4, 2014 9:28 AM, "Mark Minton" <mmin...@caver.net> wrote:
> I agree with Andy that the marks David mentioned are likely from a
> bear. I've seen such marks in several caves in Virginia and West Virginia,
> often quite far from any known entrance and also not associated with any
> bones. We've also found large wallows in mud floors that are said to be
> where bears slept. These signs seem to be more common than I would have
> imagined.
>
> The marks Steve mentioned in Powell's are likely from a raccoon.
> We found marks like that several places in Honey Creek, also far from any
> known entrance. Of course it doesn't take much of an entrance for a
> raccoon, as opposed to a bear...
>
> Mark
>
> At 11:05 AM 1/4/2014, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote:
>
>> Bear? I've found bear bones in SA caves and there was even a sighting
>> in a local park a few years back.
>>
>
> At 10:42 AM 1/4/2014, Steve Keselik wrote:
>
>> Some years back in Powell's cave we were hoping to find a shorter route
>> to the stream passage via the maze. We didn't find any dig sites that
>> looked promising but we did note some scratch marks about 4' up on the wall
>> that looked like a small animal was trying to get out of the water as they
>> all were in a horizontal line. If that was the case then that means there
>> was water pretty high in the cave, In retrospect maybe it was just bat
>> marks but the line was very straight with no projections to grab on
>> to....Steve
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 2:47 AM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> A caver in the San Antonio area once told me ( while sittiing around the
>> camp-fire in 1995 ) that they were in a cave in or near Bexar County
>> and saw claw marks on the wall, that were made by an animal that
>> appeared to be taller than a man and appeared the animal was trying to
>> climb out of the cave. I think he said it was a short pit
>> entrance, and there were no bones in the cave of such animal.
>>
>> My fuzzy memory is that in this conversation he mentioned a Chivos Cave,
>> but
>> I don't know if that was the one he was referring to.
>>
>> I think he said there were 4 scratch marks on each hand though.
>>
>
> Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
> Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cave Without a Name has some bear claw marks on the wall. The owner, Tom,
pointed them out to me on the wall as you approach the stream passage. They
aren't highlighted for tourists because they could be easily damaged.
>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 2:47 AM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A caver in the San Antonio area once told me ( while sittiing around the
> camp-fire in 1995 ) that they were in a cave in or near Bexar County
> and saw claw marks on the wall, that were made by an animal that
> appeared to be taller than a man and appeared the animal was trying to
> climb out of the cave. I think he said it was a short pit
> entrance, and there were no bones in the cave of such animal.
>
> My fuzzy memory is that in this conversation he mentioned a Chivos Cave, but
> I don't know if that was the one he was referring to.
>
> I think he said there were 4 scratch marks on each hand though.
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
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