[tw] Mario's annnotations for previous hangouts

2013-07-23 Thread Jeremy Ruston
pmario has patiently annotated our last two hangouts with links directly to
the different discussions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJuDlLQI9pQ - Hangout #4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX0jvQ0vYVk - Hangout #5

Click on the show more button below the video and you'll see the listing.

Many thanks to pmario!

Best wishes

Jeremy



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Re: [tw] Tiddlywiki 5 and mGSD

2013-07-23 Thread Jim McD

Hi Jeremy,

As a long time user of mGSD (2006), I agree with Giovani about the most 
desirable features: GTD-related views of projects and action lists, post 
it notes on action and project tiddlers, and a general clean look.  Unlike 
the dGSD fans, I like mGSD for its pure GTD approach.  My ideal would be a 
straight port from mGSD to TW5.

TW5 looks and sounds excellent so far.  With the current level of 
development, there is bound to be some right-tasty GTD goodness down the 
line.

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[tw] Re: Some further TW5 thoughts/opinions

2013-07-23 Thread Mat
Another wanted feature (also for TW classic):

To somehow see if a tiddler contains text or not without having to open it. 
The need arises from the fact that tiddler names are both tiddlers and tags 
and often serve as mere headings/holders (eg in TreeView menu) which forces 
you to open it to check. I know some poeple add a * or some such to the 
name to indicate content but it is a too frequenct phenomenon to not have 
automatic. Here are some ideas:

* include info on this in the hover lable (is that the correct term?). 
Currently it shows tiddler name, tiddler subtitle and date, eg TiddlyWiki 
- Jermolene, March 20. 2012,  13:40. It could instead be perhaps read:  
TiddlyWiki [text] ...  and TiddlyWiki [empty] ... or some such.
What is less good with this solution is that you must actively hover. Also, 
this hover info is different in various places (eg ShadowMenu. And plugins 
can create it's own info, as in the case of TreeView that merely sttes that 
it's a link to.. ).

* We have text formats to indicate differnt types, ie *NonExistingLink* *
ExistingLink* and there is also *ExistingLink** *(eg 
herehttp://tiddlywiki.com/#Configuration). 
I think it would be elegant to extend this latter variant to also indicate 
an existing link without text. This is probably the most elegant solution 
to this issue, IMO.
 (BTW, in Shadow tab, it is not clear why some are bold and some not bold?).

* Another variant could be to refine the manually appended + that some 
people use into autmatically including, say ° at the end of empty tiddler 
links: *ExistingButNoContent*° - the aim is something that is invisible 
enough so that you only see it when looking for it.


:-)




On Monday, May 13, 2013 11:27:35 AM UTC+2, Mat wrote:

 In addition to some previously expressed 
 thoughtshttps://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/tiddlywiki/TW5$20Mat/tiddlywiki/0nmhoDZvIG0/wC0RsY87fbEJof
  mine, here are a few more:

 * Avoid all dead links in empty file.

 * tag systemConfig ought to be renamed into something less scary and 
 informative, perhaps plugin or possibly autostart. (I think we're a bit 
 home blind but consider how awkward it would be if, say, evernote or 
 facebook required that users kept track of weird sounding magic terms).

 (...and if that suggestion didn't cause uncomfort, maybe this will ;-)

 * I'd love multiple tag fields, ie for different types of tags because:
 - it would simplify filtering a lot (I think).
 - it would allow users to tag *plugins *freely without mutilating the 
 original tags
 - and the obvious, it would allow you to generally separate between tag 
 types
 I get the impression a multiple tag fields feature is more suitable for 
 core than as a plugin becaue it is such an integral feature. I've seen 
 requests for this but there hasn't really been any solution. Tobias did 
 create TagSearch http://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com/#TagSearch plugin and, 
 wonderful as it is, it seems to be a circumvention to make the best of what 
 is possible. I can't comment on how to code this but interface wise - if 
 you allow me to be a tad too intricate for this bullet list - tag fields 
 (eg. in searches) could perhaps be on the form tiddler.tags3.contain... 
 (for tag field 3), and the default field could perhaps be reached both via 
 tags1 and tags. A plugin might be the more appropriate way to give 
 aliases (eg Prioritytags, Systemtags etc). In edit view, adding a tag 
 field could be with a simple [+] (with label add tag field) close to the 
 default single tag field. Well, you get it. Sorry if this bullet point is 
 too intricate and if I'm using the wrong lingo in my layman descriptions.

 * Not urgent but both TW5 and classic TW should have a logo (-s?). Maybe 
 there is one, but then it is clearly not prominent enough. I think 
 TiddlySpace has those circles as a logo, but not quite sure. I understand 
 the user should not have to *deal *with that logo (ie to keep it visible 
 or manually remove it etc) but it could really be just on tw.com and not 
 be downloaded - just like all the specific tiddlers there are not included 
 in empty.html. MediaWiki has their absolutely brilliant [[*]] (with a nice 
 looking sun flower instead of the * ), just to mention an example. Logos 
 are a marketing tool to create recognition for a product/brand etc.

 * On five.tiddlywiki.com, I like it that the menu has now moved to the 
 right side. But it all is aligned left creating a large empty area on even 
 even my 15 screen. Maybe it should be centered? BTW, I also really like 
 the clean interface there in general. Really nice.

 :-)


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For more 

Re: [tw] Re: Tables with tab space instead of pipe?

2013-07-23 Thread Leo Razoumov
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:43 AM, Jeremy Ruston jeremy.rus...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm not keen on giving the tab character special meanings within markup
 (other than classing it as whitespace), because it breaks the printability
 of wikitext source. Otherwise a virtue of wikitext is its explicitness
 (compared to MS Word with it's hidden paragraph markers that act as an
 anchor for formatting). The other problem is that it is hard to type a tab
 character on many systems (eg iphone, ipad).


+1.
Also there are people like me who prefer to edit large tidlers in external
editors (I use emacs launched via It's all text firefox addon).
For me tab character is just a type of whitespace and very often (as a
programmer)
my editors expand a tab into 4 spaces.

Please, do *not* give tab-char any special meaning!

--Leo--

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Re: [tw] Re: Some further TW5 thoughts/opinions

2013-07-23 Thread Jeremy Ruston
Hi Mat

As usual, interesting feedback, thank you. I'm hoping that the rich link
tooltips will also give access to a preview of the target tiddler which
should answer some of your concerns.

Another possibility might be to automatically render links to tiddlers that
don't have body text as tab pills. The problem there is that it doesn't
play well with lazy loading, plus I'm not sure that conflating tiddlers
that are tags with tiddlers that have no body text is necessarily always
going to be correct. We could look the tiddler up to see if it is being
used as a tag anywhere, but that's a slow operation to perform every time
we render a link.

The reason that some links in the shadow tiddlers tab are bold is that
those are the shadow tiddlers that have been overridden with real tiddlers
(this is the same as TW classic).

Can you explain your last point further? Why do people manually append +
to links?

Best wishes

Jeremy




On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Mat matiasg...@gmail.com wrote:

 Another wanted feature (also for TW classic):

 To somehow see if a tiddler contains text or not without having to open
 it. The need arises from the fact that tiddler names are both tiddlers and
 tags and often serve as mere headings/holders (eg in TreeView menu) which
 forces you to open it to check. I know some poeple add a * or some such to
 the name to indicate content but it is a too frequenct phenomenon to not
 have automatic. Here are some ideas:

 * include info on this in the hover lable (is that the correct term?).
 Currently it shows tiddler name, tiddler subtitle and date, eg TiddlyWiki
 - Jermolene, March 20. 2012,  13:40. It could instead be perhaps read:
 TiddlyWiki [text] ...  and TiddlyWiki [empty] ... or some such.
 What is less good with this solution is that you must actively hover.
 Also, this hover info is different in various places (eg ShadowMenu. And
 plugins can create it's own info, as in the case of TreeView that merely
 sttes that it's a link to.. ).

 * We have text formats to indicate differnt types, ie *NonExistingLink*
 *ExistingLink* and there is also *ExistingLink** *(eg 
 herehttp://tiddlywiki.com/#Configuration).
 I think it would be elegant to extend this latter variant to also indicate
 an existing link without text. This is probably the most elegant solution
 to this issue, IMO.
  (BTW, in Shadow tab, it is not clear why some are bold and some not
 bold?).

 * Another variant could be to refine the manually appended + that some
 people use into autmatically including, say ° at the end of empty tiddler
 links: *ExistingButNoContent*° - the aim is something that is invisible
 enough so that you only see it when looking for it.


 :-)





 On Monday, May 13, 2013 11:27:35 AM UTC+2, Mat wrote:

 In addition to some previously expressed 
 thoughtshttps://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/tiddlywiki/TW5$20Mat/tiddlywiki/0nmhoDZvIG0/wC0RsY87fbEJof
  mine, here are a few more:

 * Avoid all dead links in empty file.

 * tag systemConfig ought to be renamed into something less scary and
 informative, perhaps plugin or possibly autostart. (I think we're a bit
 home blind but consider how awkward it would be if, say, evernote or
 facebook required that users kept track of weird sounding magic terms).

 (...and if that suggestion didn't cause uncomfort, maybe this will ;-)

 * I'd love multiple tag fields, ie for different types of tags because:
 - it would simplify filtering a lot (I think).
 - it would allow users to tag *plugins *freely without mutilating the
 original tags
 - and the obvious, it would allow you to generally separate between tag
 types
 I get the impression a multiple tag fields feature is more suitable for
 core than as a plugin becaue it is such an integral feature. I've seen
 requests for this but there hasn't really been any solution. Tobias did
 create TagSearch http://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com/#TagSearch plugin
 and, wonderful as it is, it seems to be a circumvention to make the best of
 what is possible. I can't comment on how to code this but interface wise -
 if you allow me to be a tad too intricate for this bullet list - tag fields
 (eg. in searches) could perhaps be on the form tiddler.tags3.contain...
 (for tag field 3), and the default field could perhaps be reached both via
 tags1 and tags. A plugin might be the more appropriate way to give
 aliases (eg Prioritytags, Systemtags etc). In edit view, adding a tag
 field could be with a simple [+] (with label add tag field) close to the
 default single tag field. Well, you get it. Sorry if this bullet point is
 too intricate and if I'm using the wrong lingo in my layman descriptions.

 * Not urgent but both TW5 and classic TW should have a logo (-s?). Maybe
 there is one, but then it is clearly not prominent enough. I think
 TiddlySpace has those circles as a logo, but not quite sure. I understand
 the user should not have to *deal *with that logo (ie to keep it visible
 or manually remove it etc) 

Re: [tw] Re: Tables with tab space instead of pipe?

2013-07-23 Thread Jeremy Ruston

 Actually, it's the other way around (unless I misunderstand you): Tab
 character was explicitly created to make tables. It is the de facto
 international standard to make tables.


I don't think that the tab character is used in any of the popular markup
languages. It's origin was more about aligning columns than tables: with
tabs it's usual to have to include variable number of tabs after a cell to
get to the next column, making them useless for parsing meaning.


 But maybe I do misunderstan you because I don't get what breakign the
 printability of wikitext source means - if you print source text then tab
 characters are printed as well, no?


What I mean is that a code block containing sample wikitext source will
not readably show the tab characters; nor would printing the wikitext
source. That makes wikitext harder to teach and harder to learn.

We could work around it by displaying the tab character as a right arrow,
or something, but that's not something that is supported by browser
textareas out of the box.




 The other problem is that it is hard to type a tab character on many
 systems (eg iphone, ipad).


 Tru, altho pipe is also a bit iffy.


No, the tab character is impossible to type on an iPad; the pipe is just
awkward. Huge difference.




 Having said that, I'd definitely like to evolve an easier to type and
 read format for tables. MediaWiki lets tables be typed as a cell on each
 line, which I like a lot.


 Interesting. Possibly a decent route - but still very much a compromise
 from a user perspective. It misses out on the very 2D essence of a table
 IMO.


It's the 2D essence of the table that gets awkward to type if you start to
get word wrap. MediaWiki offers it's multiline syntax alongside an ordinary
2D syntax; you can use either.


 As to handling the tab key on desktop browsers, my current thinking is
 that for the majority of users the simplest behaviour is for the tab key to
 always move between fields, and never to insert tab characters. As with TW
 classic, we'll need to provide some way for advanced users to insert tab
 characters when they want them.


 Just a note here: In Cinta Notes, you jump between title, text and tags
 with tab key - but you can also get there directly with up/down arrow keys!
 Very convenient actually and it creates a more connected feeling between
 the fields. (Related: you can't tab key backwards.)



 Keyboard shortcuts are moving up my list for TW5. My aim is to allow it to
 be entirely driven by the keyboard, and to allow a high degree of
 configurability by users. You will, for instance, be able to navigate the
 tag pills and their associated lists.


 Interesting. I don't know how this navigation will be manifested, but
 again arrow keys for navigation may be worth considering as an option.


The plan is certainly to use the conventional keys for navigation.

Best wishes

Jeremy



 :-)


 On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Mat matia...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for your reply PMario.

 First off, when I wrote tab space I mean only pressing the tab button
 (I was trying to avoid confusion from the double meaning of tab but I guess
 I did the exact opposite ;-)

 Is your point still valid then? (The center / right align is thus not
 relevant).

 Are there other places where tabs are used in the code?

 Regardless, if necessary it would be easy (?) to use some type of
 indicator where this should be valid. Perhaps somting like in current
 tables where you have a marker for the headline row etc

 Also, I'm kind of having TW5 in mind where backward compatability is so
 far less important anyway.

 The current pipe way is just very messy for anything but the simplest of
 tables, IMO.



 backstage: tweaks
 check: Use the tab key to insert tab characters instead of moving
 between fields - chkInsertTabs


 Aha, will try! The ideal, for me, would be to have tab move between
 fields - or rather, from title, to tags, to text (it currently moves from
 title to text) - and then behave like tab character. Do you know if this is
 possible?

 :-)



 On Monday, July 22, 2013 1:01:06 AM UTC+2, PMario wrote:

 Hi Mat,
 I think having tabs and spaces as table seperators is not possible,
 since spaces allready have a special meaning. And it would cause backwards
 compatibility problems  a lot of them :)

 |left alligned text | center | right alligned|

 For tabs, just use the tab key :)

 backstage: tweaks
 check: Use the tab key to insert tab characters instead of moving
 between fields - chkInsertTabs

 -m

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[tw] Re: Mario's annnotations for previous hangouts

2013-07-23 Thread PMario
I did annotate Hangout#3 too :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jduxruwB5K4



I want to share some observations that I made, viewing the whole stuff in 
full length. 

It seems: 

* The recorder (robot) automatically adjusts the main display focus, if it 
detects a microphone signal.
  * most of the time, this works well.
  * It doesn't work well, if an 
attendeehttp://dict.leo.org/?lp=endefrom=fx3search=teilnehmer#/search=attendeesearchLoc=0resultOrder=basicmultiwordShowSingle=onuses
 the pc speakers, which create an echo.
* eg: Since the echo has some delay, it temporarily gets the focus, 
which imo is annoying. 

  * It doesn't work well, if eg: someone is breathing into a headset 
microphone. 
* same as above, every few seconds the robot switches focus, to someone 
who actually doesn't speak.

  * There is some more background noise, that should be muted. ...

I think to improve automatic recording, 
 - we should mute our microphones, if we listen.
 - we should check our audio settings, if the OS can handle some mic 
activation treshhold. ...
 - we should mute the audio  video signal if needed.

-

It seems there are 3 modes that control the main display: 

* (default) The google client browser plugin does automatic focus handling
  * This focus handling seems to be different to the recorder handling!

* If a user selects a thumbnail view. This view gets the focus
  * It holds the focus until the user deselects the thumbnail. default mode 
will be active again

* If someone activates screen sharing, this view will get focus for 
everyone which uses default view

I'm not sure about the recorder robot but it seems it uses the hangout 
masters mode. 

So if Jeremy selects a thumbnail, everyone that has default mode 
acitvated, gets this view as there main view. So the hangout master is also 
the director. If the wrong view is selected, this isn't a problem, if 
your are live, since you can manually overwrite this behaviour. But if you 
watch the recording, it sometimes is hard to not change the channel. 

View hangout #5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX0jvQ0vYVk and you'll know, 
what I mean. There should be no offence here. Viewing the stuff is very 
interesting. I just want to point out, that the recordings are sometimes 
... suboptimal.

---

If the hangout detects an audio signal, the thumbnail gets a green volume 
bar. IMO this is the easiest way to check if audio is working, or if 
someone is creating accidental noise. 

regards
mario

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[tw] Re: Mario's annnotations for previous hangouts

2013-07-23 Thread Jeremy Ruston
Thanks Mario, very helpful. I need to take care not to inadvertently switch
thumbnails.

The main issue that's affecting me is the system automatically muting me
when I type. The frustration is that I'm using a headset with built-in mic,
as per Google's recommendations. It seems as though it's still using the
mic in the body of my laptop to do the typing noise detection.

Best wishes

Jeremy


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 3:08 PM, PMario pmari...@gmail.com wrote:

 I did annotate Hangout#3 too :)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jduxruwB5K4

 

 I want to share some observations that I made, viewing the whole stuff in
 full length.

 It seems:

 * The recorder (robot) automatically adjusts the main display focus, if it
 detects a microphone signal.
   * most of the time, this works well.
   * It doesn't work well, if an 
 attendeehttp://dict.leo.org/?lp=endefrom=fx3search=teilnehmer#/search=attendeesearchLoc=0resultOrder=basicmultiwordShowSingle=onuses
  the pc speakers, which create an echo.
 * eg: Since the echo has some delay, it temporarily gets the focus,
 which imo is annoying.

   * It doesn't work well, if eg: someone is breathing into a headset
 microphone.
 * same as above, every few seconds the robot switches focus, to
 someone who actually doesn't speak.

   * There is some more background noise, that should be muted. ...

 I think to improve automatic recording,
  - we should mute our microphones, if we listen.
  - we should check our audio settings, if the OS can handle some mic
 activation treshhold. ...
  - we should mute the audio  video signal if needed.

 -

 It seems there are 3 modes that control the main display:

 * (default) The google client browser plugin does automatic focus handling
   * This focus handling seems to be different to the recorder handling!

 * If a user selects a thumbnail view. This view gets the focus
   * It holds the focus until the user deselects the thumbnail. default
 mode will be active again

 * If someone activates screen sharing, this view will get focus for
 everyone which uses default view

 I'm not sure about the recorder robot but it seems it uses the hangout
 masters mode.

 So if Jeremy selects a thumbnail, everyone that has default mode
 acitvated, gets this view as there main view. So the hangout master is also
 the director. If the wrong view is selected, this isn't a problem, if
 your are live, since you can manually overwrite this behaviour. But if you
 watch the recording, it sometimes is hard to not change the channel.

 View hangout #5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX0jvQ0vYVk and you'll
 know, what I mean. There should be no offence here. Viewing the stuff is
 very interesting. I just want to point out, that the recordings are
 sometimes ... suboptimal.

 ---

 If the hangout detects an audio signal, the thumbnail gets a green volume
 bar. IMO this is the easiest way to check if audio is working, or if
 someone is creating accidental noise.

 regards
 mario




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mailto:jeremy.rus...@gmail.com

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[tw] Sixth TiddlyWiki Hangout starting now

2013-07-23 Thread Jeremy Ruston
Our sixth hangout is starting now over at:

https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4f10b4d17621ff7d6547eb836c9be8e1e2115520

Looking forward to it,

Best wishes

Jeremy


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mailto:jeremy.rus...@gmail.com

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[tw] using images from my hard drive on page?

2013-07-23 Thread j h
Can someone guide me in allowing images from my own hard drive where 
Tiddlywiki is installed to be displayed in one of the Tiddly's? Also same 
question for video, other file types...thanks!!

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[tw] Re: Sixth TiddlyWiki Hangout starting now

2013-07-23 Thread Jeremy Ruston
TiddlyWiki Hangout #6 is now available on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ojnouO8-PA

We will be adding annotations shortly (thanks to pmario)

Best wishes

Jeremy


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Jeremy Ruston jeremy.rus...@gmail.comwrote:

 Our sixth hangout is starting now over at:

 https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4f10b4d17621ff7d6547eb836c9be8e1e2115520

 Looking forward to it,

 Best wishes

 Jeremy


 --
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 mailto:jeremy.rus...@gmail.com




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mailto:jeremy.rus...@gmail.com

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[tw] Re: Mario's annnotations for previous hangouts

2013-07-23 Thread PMario
Hi Jeremy, 
Just finished the annotations: 
http://pmario.tiddlyspace.com/#2013-07-23-TW5-hangout-6
for hangout 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ojnouO8-PA

It seems everything worked quite well this time. ... 

But I found out, that muting audio and video too often will crash the 
plugin after an hour or so :))
With my system it completely deactivated the headset microphone. 

Is there some advice from google, about best practice?

have fun!
mario

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Re: [tw] using images from my hard drive on page?

2013-07-23 Thread Leo Razoumov
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:14 AM, j h jdh...@gmail.com wrote:
 Can someone guide me in allowing images from my own hard drive where
 Tiddlywiki is installed to be displayed in one of the Tiddly's? Also same
 question for video, other file types...thanks!!

Including Images in TW is easy.
Assuming images are in the same directory as your TW html file:

[img[Some descriptive text | img-file-name.jpg]]

Or if the image is in a subdirectory Pics then

[img[Some text description | Pics/img-file-name.jpg]]

Hope it helps,
--Leo--

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[tw] Re: Mario's annnotations for previous hangouts

2013-07-23 Thread Jeremy Ruston
Hi Mario

Thanks for your help, I've copied the annotations across. I haven't had any
problems with the plugin crashing (although my laptop does run incredibly
hot during hangouts). I've been googling the problems I've been having with
unnecessarily draconian typing muting, and not come up with anything useful.

Best wishes

Jeremy


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:03 PM, PMario pmari...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Jeremy,
 Just finished the annotations:
 http://pmario.tiddlyspace.com/#2013-07-23-TW5-hangout-6
 for hangout 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ojnouO8-PA

 It seems everything worked quite well this time. ...

 But I found out, that muting audio and video too often will crash the
 plugin after an hour or so :))
 With my system it completely deactivated the headset microphone.

 Is there some advice from google, about best practice?

 have fun!
 mario




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Jeremy Ruston
mailto:jeremy.rus...@gmail.com

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[tw] Re: Mario's annnotations for previous hangouts

2013-07-23 Thread Scott Simmons
On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:20:32 PM UTC-4, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
 

 I've been googling the problems I've been having with unnecessarily 
 draconian typing muting, and not come up with anything useful.


 Meant to ask today and forgot:  How is it that Eric manages to type and 
speak without automuting ... ?

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Re: [tw] using images from my hard drive on page?

2013-07-23 Thread Scott Simmons
This page has some nice info on images:

http://www.tiddlywiki.com/#%5B%5BImage%20Formatting%5D%5D

And you may find some value in this tiddler I created for myself as I was 
learning my way around TiddlyWiki:

http://tiddlywiki.secret-hq.com/#formatting

... especially the Images and Hyperlinking sections.

And speaking of old junk that may come in handy, this might help with 
embedding YouTube videos in your TW:

http://tiddlywiki.secret-hq.com/#YouTubeVideoDisplayPlugin

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