[tw5] Re: convert yyyymmdd to days from another date (now)

[TonyM]

Dave,

Dates are quite complex, centuries with missing leap days and more. You 
need to make use of special date handling widgets and operators to do this 
correctly for all but the simplest comparison. The days operator is one of 
these, but other plugins exist to support this, eg Date Picker.

Personally I like to timestamp a field with now, say the weekly-review 
field, because I did it, then have a seperate list widget use the days 
operator to list all tiddlers with the weekly-review field older than 7 
days, meaning it was not done this week.

Now you can think there is another way, but this advice comes from me 
spending weeks of developing date handling in tiddlywiki so unless you use 
more advanced date functions in say evans formulae plugin I recommend you 
try and wrap your head around this conceptual somersault. I believe you 
will be rewarded in the long run and any other approach may make your head 
hurt.

Regards
Tony

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 4:22:54 PM UTC+11, Dave wrote:
>
> I have this list filter to list tiddlers due in Nov and Dec
> <$list filter="[field:due/^2019(1|2)/]+[!sort[due]]">
> <$link to={{!!title}}><$view field="title"/> - <$view 
> field="due"/>
> 
>
> that gives something like this
>
> some other event - 20191227
> Christmas - 20191225
> some event - 20191220
> Haircut - 20191203
> vets - 20191125
> do registration - 20191101
> refill hydrocollator - 20191028
> Put words in rm - 120191017
> research windows den - 20191005
>
> In each of these tiddlers there's a field "due" with the mmdd 
> formatted date.
>
> I also have a tiddler "mynow" with today's date in the same format.
>
> If the months are the same, I can just subtract the numbers, e.g. with 
> something like this
>  <> days
>
>
> using Tobibeer's macro, but if they're different months, 20191201-20191130 
> does not equal "1"
>
> Is there a method that can do this?  I've seen similar topics here, but 
> nothing so far seems to answer this particular problem.
>
> Thanks,
> - Dave
>
>

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[tw5] Re: VCF Import Tiddler Quandary

[TonyM]

Although the tiddler is named as a plugin it is not, if you open it, it has 
no field plugin-type = plugin
It is however tagged as a macro and you can used the macros defined with 
"\define "

Tony

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 9:36:29 AM UTC+11, Qalisto wrote:
>
> From:  https://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html  I found a potentially very useful 
> Tiddler for creation of a CONTACTS Tiddler.
>
> It is:  $:/plugins/telmiger/contacts/qr-tid
>
> But upon import in the dedicated TW5 file, it imports but does not show in 
> theControl Panel > Plugins window.
>
> Also, the below Import window begs the question:  should the "Import 
> Preview" selection be Text / Diff / Fields etc ??
>
> Not clear as to which to select for the Import of this "utility Tiddler".  
> But I tried both the default Text and Fields as separate imports and even 
> though Importation does not produce an ERROR msg, I see no resulting 
> existence of the Tiddler in the Plugins after a refresh.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
>

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[tw5] Re: The last word in Saving?

[TonyM]

All, 

Please See The penultimate words on saving - multi access and multi user 
 for 
server based solutions.

TiddlyWiki Single file solutions using cloud drives etc.. also belong in 
this thread.

Regards
Tony


On Monday, November 18, 2019 at 2:03:52 PM UTC+11, TonyM wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> This post is seeking input from the community to overcome what I perceive 
> to be the last big issue in saving. It may seem only suited to experienced 
> users but perhaps you know something we don't, so please be brave and 
> contribute.
>
> I may have an opportunity in coming months to work with a team of 
> videographers in their off season. They do "things for good" and my thought 
> was to build a nice application (on tiddlywiki) for people to explore how 
> they or their business can participate in reaching the *Sustainable 
> Development Goals (SDG's)*. This will promote the SDG's, their work, my 
> work and the power of TiddlyWiki, but there seems to me, to still be an 
> elephant in the room - saving.
>
> *How do we enable saving tiddlywikis for naive and casual users?*
>
> To be sure, I am across most saving mechanisms, and some are very good and 
> quite easy to set up a very sophisticated solution, I use Timimi, 
> TiddlyServer, TiddlyDesktop and Bob.exe 
>
> Imagine someone visits my SDG app online
>
>- They could use it and apply changes but not save it
>- With local storage and save some changes in the browser but they may 
>be lost later
>- They Can download it easily enough, even with their in browser or 
>local storage content
>- But if they wish to open it again, make changes and save they then 
>need to consider this https://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted - scary 
>for many.
>
> Basically I think tiddlywiki is brilliant and we have lots of wonderful 
> options for saving, once someone gets involved with the ecosystem, I 
> believe any nodeJS solution is hard to secure on the internet and like 
> NoteSelf we have to manage the server, but it seems we are so close to a 
> better single file solution (My Opinion).
>  
> I know some saving mechanisms come close to helping *naive and casual 
> users* however their remains a need to take unfamiliar steps, that can be 
> quite fragile, especially to those not overly computer literate. Saving 
> under downloads folders, running batches and installing local apps are all 
> impediments to *naive and casual users* in my view, as this becomes 
> Operating system dependant, demands more trust, will not work in many 
> locked down cases and more.
>
> I am starting this thread to try and inspire some serious creativity to 
> overcome this barrier. Here are some ideas floating in my head but I am 
> keen to hear from you.
>
>- Any idea is a good idea
>- A diversity of ideas in needed
>- We may need to "think outside the box"
>- Can an existing solution be better engineered to meet these goals?
>
> Some of my own musings
>
>- One approach may be to never download the whole wiki, but store the 
>changes in a separate file that is automatically loaded over the in 
> browser 
>one, and saved only by saving changes back to the nominated file.
>- Building all the necessary content to install Timimi or another 
>saver from the single wiki (No other document or external info required) 
>Not yet chrome and IE
>- A Form of bob.exe/TiddlyDesktop that can be loaded with a custom 
>tiddlywiki that shows only that wiki unless some settings are changed in 
>the control panel. Ie a single local installable.
>- A Way of packaging a TiddlyWiki with Node.exe and hosting on a port 
>that will not clash with other server hosts, perhaps an packaged extension 
>of TiddlySaver.
>- I was inspired to open this up to the community after playing with 
> bookmarklets 
>and Jeremy's solution 
>
> 
>  because 
>javascript can be loaded into bookmarks I wonder if it could be used to 
>save changes to local tiddlywiki files and reimport on click. 
>- I also looked at solutions such as 
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMacros which suggests there may be 
>other ways to achieve the desired results.
>- IPFS, BeakerBrowser, CouchDB or saving to a MYSQL or even a 
>wordpress database?
>
>
> All I want for Christmas is a simple way for *naive and casual users *to 
> save their tiddlywiki (again and again)
>
> Yours Sincerely
> Tony
>

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[tw5] Re: The penultimate words on saving - multi access and multi user

[TonyM]

Post Script

Using multi-access and Multi-user implementations of Tiddlywiki can also be 
extended to multi-device solutions. Such as you would like a tiddlywiki on 
your mobile and access it on your desktop. Such solutions can make use of a 
server based solution as needed with multi-access and multi-user (of the 
simultaneous type)  or single file based wikis stored on a cloud service 
such as Google Drive, Microsoft One Drive, Dropbox and more. Where possible 
please keep this thread focused on Node, server or folder based solutions 
and see the discussion  *the Last Word in Saving 
* for 
single file wikis.

Regards
Tony

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[tw5] Re: VCF Import Tiddler Quandary

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

You're importing a single tiddler, not an entire plugin.

It doesn't matter what preview is used.

Just press "import" and then a tiddler should appear with the name of the 
imported tiddler. Click on the name to navigate to the imported tiddler.

You might want to change the name of the tiddler since it is no longer part 
of a plugin and since, as a system tiddler ($:/...) it will be hidden from 
the "recent" list.

Good luck

On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 2:36:29 PM UTC-8, Qalisto wrote:
>
> From:  https://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html  I found a potentially very useful 
> Tiddler for creation of a CONTACTS Tiddler.
>
> It is:  $:/plugins/telmiger/contacts/qr-tid
>
> But upon import in the dedicated TW5 file, it imports but does not show in 
> theControl Panel > Plugins window.
>
> Also, the below Import window begs the question:  should the "Import 
> Preview" selection be Text / Diff / Fields etc ??
>
> Not clear as to which to select for the Import of this "utility Tiddler".  
> But I tried both the default Text and Fields as separate imports and even 
> though Importation does not produce an ERROR msg, I see no resulting 
> existence of the Tiddler in the Plugins after a refresh.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
>

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[tw5] convert yyyymmdd to days from another date (now)

[Dave]

I have this list filter to list tiddlers due in Nov and Dec
<$list filter="[field:due/^2019(1|2)/]+[!sort[due]]">
<$link to={{!!title}}><$view field="title"/> - <$view 
field="due"/>


that gives something like this

some other event - 20191227
Christmas - 20191225
some event - 20191220
Haircut - 20191203
vets - 20191125
do registration - 20191101
refill hydrocollator - 20191028
Put words in rm - 120191017
research windows den - 20191005

In each of these tiddlers there's a field "due" with the mmdd formatted 
date.

I also have a tiddler "mynow" with today's date in the same format.

If the months are the same, I can just subtract the numbers, e.g. with 
something like this
 <> days


using Tobibeer's macro, but if they're different months, 20191201-20191130 
does not equal "1"

Is there a method that can do this?  I've seen similar topics here, but 
nothing so far seems to answer this particular problem.

Thanks,
- Dave

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[tw5] Re: Bold in a li?

[TonyM]

Sycom,

Since this data is already encoded in tiddlywiki, see my last post. I think 
a plugin that not only provides this reference but provides links into its 
definitions and self documentation would be better even than a special 
edition.

However Can I say all html except that demanding javascript such as onclick 
actions etc is valid within tiddlywiki (With few exceptions like some 
anchoring)  so at any time you wish you can leverage pure html throughout 
your tiddlers. I tend to stick to wiki text when storing information but I 
let myself depart from pure wikitext when I am designing a tiddler. The 
functional equivalent of HTML that demands javascript is usually provided 
through widgets and macros. Any piece of HTML that is not already wigitised 
and offers a function not already available is a good candidate first as a 
plugin and subsequently possibly included in the standard distribution. 
Please raise such items here for help and if there is no way I would 
recommend raising an issue in the github issues.

Regards
Tony

On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 10:51:28 PM UTC+11, Sycom wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> As I'm working on a static pages variant what I can say about wikitext 
> html interpretation is that it is one of the most semantically "right" I've 
> seen. It's a pleasure to work with it.
>
> I think this equivalence table would be a good piece for devs doc. It does 
> not exist in official docs because modern browsers make it easy and 
> painless to have the answer. So none of us had taken time to make it 
> happen... But maybe someone has it in a private or not well known wiki...
>
> Cheers
>
> Sylvain
> @sycom
>
>

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[tw5] Re: TW "Tiddler DB" Strategy

[TonyM]

Q,

I reread your origtinal post. If you want your sentral DB in TW to have a 
database that you export part of for another application I would recommend 
the field based approach of Marks however if you really want to export with 
even this field not in the export you can take two approaches,


   - Develop a custom export process that does not include that field.
   - Use another way to select tiddlers. A Button or select appearing on 
   all tiddlers (using the view template) could allow you to add the 
   currentTiddler to a datatiddler as a list. The export filter would them 
   select all tiddlers in the data tiddler for export, so the organising list 
   has nothing within the selected tiddlers, it sits to the side in the data 
   tiddler. So for example you could have a tiddler projectname-tiddlers 
   containing tiddlers belonging to that project name. The view template could 
   also look up which projects the current tiddler is named in and display 
   this only in your central tiddler.. 

The beauty of tiddlywiki is it can accommodate more database models than 
you could design.

Regards
Tony

On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:59:48 AM UTC+11, Qalisto wrote:
>
> Hello, I am new to TW.
>
> It seems, I should have discovered it long ago.  (I had been using an app 
> for Windows called *ConnectedText.  *But, it lacks the killer feature of 
> TW which is single HTML distribution.*)*
>
> I have a question about the strategy for rational and flexible access to 
> Tiddlers.
>
> It seems to me that for Core Business interests that it may be wise to 
> just create Tiddlers as "info Lego blocks" into a "Core Bus. TW" as Tiddler 
> repository.
>
> Then, by using the correct coding or Tagging strategy, to be able to 
> extract a list of Tiddlers which one may wish to include in ... say 
> "Project A" (while the same Tiddlers may *also* be employed in "Project B".
>
> So, given the bewildering set of system, user, shadow Tiddlers, I am 
> wondering if anyone more experienced has a system which will:
>
> (1) Enable a single Tiddler to be coded in a way that will identify it as 
> in the family of say "Project A" and also "Project B" if it is a common 
> info bit.
>
> (2) Hide that multi-project coding since I will want to compile the family 
> of Tiddlers as a business presentation and leave the content "tidy"
>
> (3) And be able to order the extracted Tiddlers from the Core TW File in 
> the desired order of presentation
>
> Of course creating an "NY Public Library" of Tiddlers may be unwise.  I 
> don't know at what point a TW file becomes too fat and thus unwieldy. But, 
> I plan to create distinct ones where possible.
>
> There seems to be multiple solutions spread about various user URLs.  And 
> I am sure I could divine this with hours of research and trial and error.  
>
> I just wonder if someone *has been where I want to go *and can kindly 
> *share* a shortcut.
>
> Thanks for any help. ## Q ##
>

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[tw5] Re: How to create a button that can optionally add an extra tag?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Try

\define add-tiddler()
<$button>
<$vars lb="[[" rb="]]">
<$wikify name=tags text="tag1 <><><>">
<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> tags=<> 
/>
New Tiddler



\end


<>



On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 3:51:22 PM UTC-8, kat wrote:
>
> I have created a template for a button and I'm trying to turn it into a 
> macro that has the option to also add <> as a tag. It's not 
> clear to me from the manual how to do this so I would really appreciate any 
> help.
>
> Here is a simplified example to illustrate what I mean. Say this is my 
> button:
>
> \define add-tiddler()
> <$button><$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> tags
> ="tag1" />
> New Tiddler
> 
> \end
>
> I'm trying to modify the macro so that <> would 
> run something like this:
>
> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> tags="tag1" 
> />
>
> While <> would run this:
>
> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> tags="tag1 
> [[<>]]" />
>
> I'm trying to avoid creating two separate templates/macros because my 
> actual button code is pretty long and it will be awkward to have to edit 
> both every time I want to make a change.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>

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[tw5] How to create a button that can optionally add an extra tag?

[kat]

I have created a template for a button. I'm trying to turn it into a macro 
that has the option to also add <> as a tag. It's not clear 
to me from the manual how to do this so I would really appreciate any help.

Here is a simplified example to illustrate what I mean. Say this is my 
button:

\define add-tiddler()
<$button><$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> tags=
"tag1" />
New Tiddler

\end

I'm trying to modify the macro so that <> would 
run something like this:

<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> tags="tag1" />

While <> would run this:

<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> tags="tag1 [[<
>]]" />

I'm trying to avoid creating two separate templates/macros because my 
actual button code is pretty long and it will be awkward to have to edit 
both every time I want to make a change.

Thanks in advance for your help.

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[tw5] The penultimate words on saving - multi access and multi user

[TonyM]

Folks. 

This thread in an intentional fork of the last word in saving thread. I am keen 
to keep the last word in saving focused on single file wikis and a simple path 
for even new users to make it their own. Invariably this bleeds into multi user 
and multi access implementation so please raise it here instead.

Multi access - more than one user updating a tiddlywiki at the same time 
Multi user - more than one user updating a single wiki can be with serial 
editing or multi access

The only multi access solution I am aware of is Jeds wonderful bob server which 
addresses the contention when editing tiddlers. Please advise if other wise, 
perhaps noteself can when configured for cloudDB. 

Please share your ideas, experience and more on multi access and multi user 
tiddlywiki such that we can develop new approaches and documentation or 
identify gaps we can address as a community.

Regards
Tony

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Re: [tw5] Re: The last word in Saving?

[TonyM]

Miha,

Thanks for your feedback and reference which I will review in further detail. 

First however I want to clarify the check in and out facility I propose is 
effectively a file lock mechanisium to ensure a single editor at a time on a 
single file wiki. 

Such a mechanisium can be used on a server delivered document or on one that is 
passed around and edited on a simple fileshare. Such check in and out is even 
useful beyond its technical values its all so about ownership, work flow and 
more. The act of emailing a document is creating or forking a new document but 
if all you are seeking is a document review. Then there are ways to merge 
changes back to the source, but you need to always ensure one editors changes 
do not overwrite another's.

I will start a new thread on multi access and multi user saving, please use 
that for the discussion of those ideas.

Thanks for your contribution
Tony

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[tw5] Re: Looking for markdown support for TW5

[Pascal Piallat]

Hi,

I searched the internet and this forum for info on where to get a markdown 
> plugin so I can write tiddlers in markdown (I have dozens of Markdown text 
> files I want to put into a Tiddlywiki) and I'm having trouble finding ones 
> that support TW5.x. Any ideas? 
>
> I found this: 
> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/tree/master/plugins/tiddlywiki/markdown
>
> but I did not see instructions for installing it into a local TW on my 
> flash drive (which is not the C: drive) in Windows 10.
>

Instructions are there : https://tiddlywiki.com/plugins/tiddlywiki/markdown/


> After I install the Markdown plugin for TW5.2 I want to connect it to 
> tiddlyspot.com so I can edit it online from any PC. 
>
> Thanks!
>

 

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[tw5] Looking for markdown support for TW5

[Chuck R.]

I searched the internet and this forum for info on where to get a markdown 
plugin so I can write tiddlers in markdown (I have dozens of Markdown text 
files I want to put into a Tiddlywiki) and I'm having trouble finding ones 
that support TW5.x. Any ideas? 

I found this: 
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/tree/master/plugins/tiddlywiki/markdown

but I did not see instructions for installing it into a local TW on my 
flash drive (which is not the C: drive) in Windows 10.

After I install the Markdown plugin for TW5.2 I want to connect it to 
tiddlyspot.com so I can edit it online from any PC. 

Thanks!

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] New Plugin: BobSaver, using Bob as a saver for single file wikis

[Jed Carty]

Stefan,

yes, you can suppress the browser opening. I will add a checkbox in the 
control panel for this in the next version, but for now you need to edit 
the manual settings.

Setting Bob to not open the default browser when it starts (using the 
manual settings):

1 - Open up the manual settings tab for Bob
  - To do this open up $:/ControlPanel, click on the tab labelled Bob 
Settings, under that there are more tabs, click on the one labelled Manual 
Settings
2 - Check the box that says Enable Editing
3 - Scroll all the way to the bottom of the tiddler and click on the very 
last button marked +
4 - Two text fields should appear 
   - in the top one enter the text suppressBrowser
   - in the bottom one enter the text yes
5 - click on the little check icon under the text fields, it is a small 
version of the wiki save button in the sidebar
6 - Click the button below that says Update Settings
  - Unless you have disabled browser alerts an alert should appear in a 
moment that says that the settings have been saved.

As long as everything is working correctly Bob should no longer open up the 
browser every time you start it.

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Re: [tw5] Re: The last word in Saving?

[Miha Lunar]

Hi y'all,

Thanks for these really good ideas and insights, here's a wall of text 
dumping some of my thoughts :)


TonyM,

I agree that the most important first use case is having a simple one-file 
one-user one-device way of saving. There are many solutions to this 
already, though it seems like most still require _some_ configuration. I 
think as a first time user (not aware of quines, browser extensions or 
servers) I would first just look for a desktop version, which could be an 
electron app that would mostly just wrap the nodejs server and present a 
client that connects to it. Alternatively it could also just wrap the html 
quine and handle saving of the html file.

If I understand your original use-case of a team of people sharing multiple 
documents amongst each other, it's more of a multi-file multi-user setup. I 
think having a central nodejs server there is probably the simplest 
solution if there is one person that can manage it.

I'm not sure how you could have a check-in/check-out workflow in the 
context of passing wiki document files around i.e. how does my pc know that 
you opened a document and checked it out on your pc? You'd need a central 
server or some other way to transfer this state. In which case you could 
just use the nodejs server to host the wiki in the first place. If you 
don't have this check-out state synchronized, you end up having multiple 
people edit the same wiki/fle, having to merge them after the fact.

In the context of having check-in/check-out as part of a central server, 
it's probably the easiest way to solve the multi-user editing scenario. For 
me personally that would bring a lot of friction and manual synchronization 
within the team (who checks out/in what and when?). This is also similar to 
non-distributed version control systems like Perforce, where this is often 
used for files that are hard to merge (media assets, etc.), so it's a 
necessary evil, so to say.

Anyway, the crux of the matter for multi-user wikis is really 
synchronization and merging between several sources which change over time. 
This is clearly a complex problem, but I believe it has been essentially 
solved by Operational Transforms (Wikipedia 
, OT Explained 
). This is essentially how 
Google Docs and similar have been doing collaborative editing with no 
check-in/check-out and no manual merging. This doesn't necessarily make it 
simple to implement, but I believe it's the way to go for server-hosted TW 
on nodejs.


Ilya,

That's an interesting setup. So essentially it's a phone-first wiki with 
everything hosted on the phone and then you just access it from your PC 
when you need to. Sounds like an extreme way to solve the offline problem, 
but it's probably the best way right now :)

As a first step, saving changes to localStorage would be a good idea in 
combination with a server. This is independent of having a desktop app, 
since it would benefit both. Service discovery is probably only relevant 
from the point of view of an app, something like DNS-SD 

 could 
be used.

The end goal for conflict resolution is probably Operational Transforms as 
described above. In the mean time a 3-way diff view (base, mine, yours) 
with an edit box where you merge the result manually might be the easiest 
to add. Recent TW versions already have diff-text 
 functionality, so it's 
mostly a matter of plumbing.

Compare different historical versions & snapshot of the wiki: I've 
experimented with implementing the former with a plugin and service to 
access git file history and present it in the UI directly and I think it's 
a good way to go. The snapshot is also easy to achieve by checking out a 
different git commit as you said already (presenting this in the TW UI 
might be a bit tricky, as the whole state of the wiki would change under 
you). I agree that some sort of a sync and sync status indicator is needed.

For the implementation, I would try to reduce the complexity and number of 
moving parts as much as possible. So I wouldn't change any core TW 
mechanics in the first versions as they aren't really required, because git 
already tracks changes in files and renames as well. Having an actual ID 
for a tiddler might be a good idea at some point though. I don't see the 
added value in having a separate saver for this as the file-based saver and 
the REST API that's already there is good enough for maintaining the 
current state.

For historical versions, I've experimented with having a Go service that 
just serves git file history and the proof of concept seemed to work well, 
now that I think about it, an even better way to go would be to just have 
it as a server-side plugin for the nodejs version of TW.


Arlen,

I've actually tried 

[tw5] Re: Query: Structure (HTML) -- Where is the visual PLAN?

[Ton Gerner]

Hi,

My Customization guide has a part about the User Interface: 
http://tw5custom.tiddlyspot.com/#Information%20about%20the%20user%20interface

Cheers,

Ton

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[tw5] Re: Query: Structure (HTML) -- Where is the visual PLAN?

[PMario]

Hi,
ViewTemplate and EditTemplate have their own lists.
-m

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[tw5] Re: Query: Structure (HTML) -- Where is the visual PLAN?

[PMario]

Hi, 

The starting point is: $:/core/ui/PageTemplate  and all tiddlers tagged: 
$:/tags/PageTemplate

This code builds the TW UI. All of it \o/

<$list 
filter="[all[shadows+tiddlers]tag[$:/tags/PageTemplate]!has[draft.of]]" 
variable="listItem">

<$transclude tiddler=<>/>



All page elements can be listed clicking: <>

have fun!
mario

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[tw5] Re: Query: Structure (HTML) -- Where is the visual PLAN?

[PMario]

Hi,
There has been a 3D viewer in FF, which was deprecated with version 47. .. 
It seems chromium based, MS-Edge beta will get it back.

https://twitter.com/EdgeDevTools/status/1158485601798119424

-m

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[tw5] Re: The last word in Saving?

[PMario]

On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 12:27:50 AM UTC+1, TonyM wrote:
>
> And again all thanks for the continuing input, carefully considered 
> feedback is very valuable and your efforts are recognised.
>
> It seems to me we are getting close to a first use "ease of use" then 
> making tiddlywiki your own, basically save back to a tiddlywiki on your own 
> drive.
>


Hi Tony, 
I think with this post, you open a completely new topic about multi-user 
setups.
So may be this should be a new thread. 

Just my 2 cents.
-m


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[tw5] Re: [TW5] New Plugin: BobSaver, using Bob as a saver for single file wikis

[Stefan Pfister]

I just want to say thank you to all of you for your great work. Just was 
curious about it and tested a usecase with a singlefile tw with 
bobsaverplugin installed. I used cherrytree and nextcloud with the 
nextcloud desktop client. The cherrytree-file is a file in the format of a 
sql-db. This file is lying in my nexcloud folder on my private raspi-nas. I 
inserted a relative link in a page of cherrytree to a tw-file in another 
folder of my nextcloud. To make a long story short. On my linux pc: I can 
open a cherrytree file with some stuff in it, like an index of my used 
tiddlywikis (lying in my nextcloud) and simply click on the link to open, 
edit and save the tiddlywiki. On my mobile SurfaceGo-Windows device: I can 
just do the same.

The big benefit of this scenario is, if you manage to create a singlefile 
bobserver which runs decently in the background automatically started: You 
can use whatever file  or program you want. Take cherrytree or a simple 
wordfile with links to a tiddlywiki. It will open with the systemwide 
installed browser and you can simply work with the tiddlywiki-file without 
doing, starting or configuring another stuff. You need simple TWs with the 
bobsaver-plugin in it. You can integrate links to tiddlywiki in every stuff 
which supports linking to files, for instance bookmarks in the browser 
should work too as a index. This stands and falls with the implementation 
of the singlefilewikibobserver as a service in the background of the used 
system.

In the meantime, just a question: Is there even now a way to suppress the 
opening of the standard browser with a multifile-standard-wiki whenever you 
invoke a Bobexe-file?

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[tw5] Re: Bold in a li?

[Sycom]

Hello,

As I'm working on a static pages variant what I can say about wikitext html 
interpretation is that it is one of the most semantically "right" I've seen. 
It's a pleasure to work with it.

I think this equivalence table would be a good piece for devs doc. It does not 
exist in official docs because modern browsers make it easy and painless to 
have the answer. So none of us had taken time to make it happen... But maybe 
someone has it in a private or not well known wiki...

Cheers

Sylvain
@sycom

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[tw5] Re: Bold in a li?

[TonyM]

Josiah

It would be nice but also remember that almost everything is visible in 
tiddlywiki. You can find the code that does this wiki text to html parsing and 
read it for your self, and if course the developer tools inspect can also throw 
light on this as well. 

The above is how I uncovered that ; and : are the dl dt and dd html tags.

Regards
Tony

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[tw5] Re: Relink

[TonyM]

A single plugin not working may mean little in the scheme of things if it fails 
gracefully. Using the browser sniffer you could identify ie and respond in the 
wiki.

Regards
Tony

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[tw5] Re: BUG? -- In-Tiddler

[PMario]

Short version: 

The wikitext syntax and the parser contain some inconsistencies, because 
there are some main goals, which "rules them all"

 - Prose text should be without any "formatting markers"
 - Wikitext should be human readable, even if _not_ rendered
 - Formatting markers should be unintrusive
- eg: ''bold''  //italic// ...

Those main goals cause a lot of "missing" information for computers. ... 
Our "super computer" (the brain) on the other hand can still make sense of 
it, because of sheer calculation power (not speed ;).

In comparison, most datacenters are still stupid.

... There is some hope!

Longer version ;)

On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 7:53:18 PM UTC+1, TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> The problem is that the rule is NOT consistent. Works ... & does not
>
> !! Working
> <<<
> Working
> <<<
>
>
This works, since tw tries to "be nice"

I personally would consider a heading starter !! without 2 new-lines at the 
end to be a syntax error. But that's only my point of view and there would 
be many complains, if we would enforce it. 

TW is able to detect a heading with a !! start and 1 new-line at the end... 
since we don't allow multi-line headings. 

If we would allow them, the above code wouldn't work.

---

You are comparing apples with pears here. 

The above would need to be as follows to compare the same tings.

This text starts a paragraph
!! This text should start a heading - but it doesn't since the paragraph 
isn't finished yet. 


The same rule is applied to the text below. 

The text with 1 new-line indicates a paragraph start. So the TW-parser 
searches for the end of the paragraph. -> 2 new-lines
Since 2 new-lines are found after the "heading" it includes the "heading 
text" into the paragraph. 

So the heading isn't detected. Same thing is true for your second example.

But this does not ...
>

> Not Working
> <<<
> Not working
> <<<
>
>
There are some more inconsistencies in the wikitext creation, which are 
"caused" by - how the TW parser works. It's a regexp based parser, which is 
optimized for speed and "code simplicity".

If you write plain wikitext, the content should be human readable, even 
without rendering. So if users get some "raw text" snippets, they should be 
able to make sense of the text. 

... But this fact, also makes "format detection" harder for programmers, 
because wikitext should not be "polluted" with markers. So some times we 
have to "guess" ... which may be wrong.

Basically, there is a "start sequence" and an "end sequence" defined. Some 
rules start a "block mode" like <<< ..

If a block mode is active, the "content" between start and end is wikified 
again. This allows us to detect eg: "!! heading" within a blockquote. and 
so on ...

As long as "block mode" is active other blocks can be "nested". 

But as soon as the parser internal state is "inline mode" it only detects 
formatting like eg: ''bold'' ... That's the reason, why the 
transclusion-widget  and some 
others, have a mode parameter: block / inline. Which tells the parser, what 
it should do, because "guessing" may cause the wrong decision. 

I hope that makes sense.

have fun!
mario


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[tw5] Tiddly Wiki HTML Page in Server

[TonyM]

If you only want your wiki read only for visitors just placing the single html 
file is fine. However yours is quite large and may be slow for users. At least 
configure a splash screen to warn them it will take time. Further optimisation 
may be necessary with such a large file.

If you know how to use cloudflare or other CDN I recommend it.

If its too slow there is a lot you can do, and more to guarantee search engines 
can see your content.

Regards
Tony 

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[tw5] Tiddly Wiki HTML Page in Server

[Java Developer]

I imported about 100 MB of text files using 
https://bimlas.gitlab.io/tw5-highlight-searched-text/ and saved as Single 
HTML file...

It works awesome via chrome browser

Can i put the single HTML file which works locally to a server and access 
from any where 

Is it mandatory to have any server or server setup for tiddly wiki is 
different to publish the content ??

Confused between Offline vs Online ?? Is it single file or any special 
setup is required in the server side ??

I thought get some free web-hosting and upload the 300 MB Single HTML file 
to access from anywhere

Please advise what would be the best option

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[tw5] Re: Bold in a li?

[PMario]

On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 6:29:31 PM UTC+1, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
... 

> Do we have a TW WikiText to HTML correspondence table somewhere?
>

Hi Josiah,

No I don't think so. There is the wikitext  - 
https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/#WikiText overview. The detailed 
descriptions of some elements contain info about the generated html output.

The internals plugin 
, 
which is part of tw-prerelease version  
allows us to see the html elements, that are created. In tiddler edit mode, 
the preview mode can be set to "raw HTML"

-m


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[tw5] Re: Relink

[Ste Wilson]

But 'doesn't work in IE' is true of a good chunk of the internet these days. 
Just saying ;)

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[tw5] Re: Tidgraph - Initial Depth?

[Ste Wilson]

I don't think it has been updated for some time which is a shame. You could 
drop the author an email. 

On a tidgraph related not tidgraph has stopped moving up to the opened tiddler 
which it always puts at the top of the river which makes is seem like nothing 
happens when clicking on a tidgraph link. I've not had chance to have a dig 
yet. Anyone any insight? 

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[tw5] TiddlyMap View Export Import Issue

[Qalisto]

I did write to Felix about this, but I am not sure if he is "active" in 
these days.

Therefore, just to be sure, I will ask the community:

(1) I am creating a master DB of Tiddlers 

(2) In TiddlyMap, I want to then create a custom "View"

(3) In that view, I will "import" some select Tiddlers from the 'pool'

(4) Then, I want to Export that "View" with its subset of Tiddlers to a 
.json (for specific distribution to specific folks).

(5) Then, (having done this), I *tried* to import that .json 
into a new 'virgin' TW5 html (with Map Tiddlers pre-installed)

Alas, the Import window below showed but, upon clicking, the Window closed 
in the Virgin and nothing was imported.

Can anyone diagnose?  Is my premise false?  Cuz, that would be really 
useful!Thanks ==Q




[image: TMAP IMPORT FAIL.jpg] 

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[tw5] Re: Single File vs Node.js

[Jed Carty]

Yes, to go from single file to node you can either use a command line tool that 
splits a single file wiki into its components, or you can drag and drop the 
HTML file into an empty node wiki or you can use bob to do the conversion.

To go from node to single file there is a command line tool or you can just use 
the save button to download a copy of the node wiki as a single file. Bob also 
has a feature that lets you download a version of your wiki.with all of the 
nodejs components removed so it doesn't have unneeded plugins. 

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] New Plugin: BobSaver, using Bob as a saver for single file wikis

[Jed Carty]

Mark,

Adding that check should be easy enough, but I agree with Tony that it has to 
be optional behaviour.

If this continues to work well and people like it than I will get it added to 
the core as one of the savers and if that were the default behaviour every wiki 
would complain if it couldn't find Bob.

Tony,

Thank you, I have no idea how windows handles things these days.

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[tw5] Re: Single File vs Node.js

[Qalisto]

So, if for some reason I need the flexibility of node.js I can easily adapt 
a single file TW5 to the server variant?

On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 11:36:37 PM UTC, TonyM wrote:
>
> My only quick point here is you can move back and forth between both 
> easily. You just need to control your work flow process. Such as which is 
> your source of truth, can you merge them etc...
>
> Extencive users of server based wikis may be able to raise some other 
> issues but as far as I can see there are no risks with single file vs node 
> and other server models other than your own failure to manage your wikis 
> effectivly.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>

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