[tw5] Re: Using one TiddlyWiki as a "server" of content to another "client" TiddlyWiki

[Charlie Veniot]

Kind of related, as per my latest update in Local storage prototype: 
TiddlyWiki and BASIC data exchange 
, is 
the ability for every thing of "same site origin"  can share/communicate 
with every other thing.


On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 6:06:59 PM UTC-4 Charlie Veniot wrote:

> https://youtu.be/sW5BIuFFyE8
>
> I didn't even acknowledge the TiddlyWiki community in this latest video, 
> because I wasn't thinking about how it could be of interest to TW folk.
>
> Well, maybe it would be of interest to folk for this use case:
>
> A TiddlyWiki instance (here the BAM Programming Reference) enhancing 
> content by displaying (right there, in an iframe) related content coming 
> from another TiddlyWiki instance (here, the BASIC Anywhere Machine IDE and 
> source code repository.)
>
> Done via the magic of 
>
> See the "Keyword Viewer" tiddler in the BASIC Anywhere Machine 
> Programming Reference 
>  , 
> where you'll find a "{{||tKv}}".  The "tKv" template tiddler involves the 
> "tEx" template tiddler which, finally,  has the magic:
>
> `
>  https://basicanywheremachine.neocities.org/BAM_IDE.html?target=]] 
> [split[#️⃣]first[]else] [[#View%20Program]] 
> +[join[]] }}} style="width:100%;height:500px;resize:both;overflow:auto;">
> 
>
> <$vars thisFilter={{{ [addprefix[(?i)\b]addsuffix[\b]] }}}>
> <$list filter="[tag[sample]regexp:text]">
>
> {{||fL}}
> {{!!text}}
> 
>
> 
> 
> `
> Dissecting BASIC Anywhere Machine 
>  TiddlyWiki's 
> "View Program" tiddler, you'll find:
>
> `
> <$list variable="thisTarget" 
> filter="[[$:/info/url/search]get[text]removeprefix[?]split[&]removeprefix[target=]uppercase[]search-replace:g[%20],[
>  
> ]]" >
>
> ! <> Sample Programs
>
> <$vars caselessTarget={{{ 
> [search-replace[$],[]addprefix[(?i)\b]addsuffix[\b]] 
> [split[]match[$]addprefix[\]] +[join[]] }}}>
> <$list filter="[tag[.bas]regexp:description]">
>
>  <>{{||Run Basic Program 
> Button}}
> 
>
> {{!!text}}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> `
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Local storage prototype: TiddlyWiki and BASIC data exchange

[Charlie Veniot]

https://basicanywheremachine.neocities.org/LocalStoragePrototype.html

Updated version of this prototype makes use of Eric Shulman's action 
timeout widget 
.

Now both TiddlyWiki and the embedded (in an iframe) BASIC programming 
automatically retrieve / send values to local storage as a way of sending 
values to each other.

So TiddlyWiki instances, iframe-embedded content in those TiddlyWiki 
instances, and any other html and web apps (caveat:  all of them must have 
"same site" origin): each of them can play the role of "server" and/or 
"client" in a client-server relationship, or as "peers" in peer to peer 
relationship.

Something like that.  Not sure if I'm using the right lingo.

On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 2:02:38 PM UTC-4 Charlie Veniot wrote:

> And I'm thinking of building a "local storage" manager in TiddlyWiki.  
> (Maybe something already done, but a fun "brain-age" exercise.)
>
> Kind of like a file manager, but rather a "key/value" manager.
>
> You want to manage your local storage items for all of the TiddlyWiki 
> instances (and whatever other web pages) at a particular host/port?  Just 
> drop the TiddlyWiki local storage import into a TiddlyWiki that is "there".
>
> Manage the key/value pairs (whatever you would do in a file manager), 
> export/backup, print.  Drag some key/values showing in one Tiddly Wiki at a 
> host/port to another TiddlyWiki at some other host/port for local storage 
> related to that.  Anything at all.
>
> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 9:30:58 AM UTC-4 hww...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Okay, I finally "get" how this works.
>>
>> Now I am thinking I need to "Get" how to "apply" or "use" it in my work.
>>
>> Thanks for sharing this and for your enthusiastic promotion of it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Hans
>>
>> On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 11:25:41 PM UTC-5 cj.v...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> https://basicanywheremachine.neocities.org/LocalStoragePrototype.html
>>>
>>> BASIC could definitely be used for complex scripting in TiddlyWiki.
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Adding duplicate title in title list

[andres....@gmail.com]

Amazing response, Eric. Thank you!

That worked *perfectly*! I need to spend some quality time with 
https://tiddlywiki.com/#Filter%20Expression. There is a lot of new stuff on 
there I hadn't seen before!

> Note also that using `` in your filter is *slightly* more 
efficient than `all[current]`
See, I *used* to use currentTiddler but saw so many examples with 
all[current] that I assumed that there was some optimization going on 
there. Noted and adjusted. Great tip!

> enjoy
I will, thank you!

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 10:43:56 PM UTC Eric Shulman wrote:

> Answer to question #1:
>
> By default, titles resulting from a filter are only listed once, with the 
> last instance of a given title "dominantly appended" to the list (i.e., 
> duplicates are removed).  Thus, in your example, adding `[[foo]]` to the 
> end of the list automatically removed the first instance of `foo` from the 
> front of the list.  You've already discovered the use of the `:raw` suffix 
> for the `enlist-input` operator, which prevents duplicates from being 
> removed when you enlist an existing space-separated list.  Another bit of 
> filter syntax that helps with preserving duplicates is the "=" prefix on a 
> filter run.  To get the results you expected, you would write: `[[foo foo 
> foo bar]enlist-input:raw[]] =[[foo]]`.
>
> Answer to question #2:
>
> As you noted in your followup message, you have an existing list stored in 
> a tiddler field called `fieldName`.  Let's assume this field contains 4 
> items: `foo [[bar baz]] mumble [[frotz gronk snork]]` (where the 2nd and 
> 4th items contain spaces).  To add an item to that list, you would write 
> something like this:: `[get[fieldName]enlist-input:raw[]] 
> =[]`.  Note also that using `` in your filter 
> is *slightly* more efficient than `all[current]`, since the `all[]` 
> operator first needs to parse the operand (`current`) to determine that you 
> want to retrieve the current tiddler's title, while `` 
> directly retrieves the title without the added internal layer of parsing.
>
> enjoy,
> -e
> On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 2:17:51 PM UTC-8 andres@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Ok, so I have the following list:
>>
>> foo foo foo bar
>>
>> I then want to append 'foo' to the end of that list such that I wind up 
>> with:
>>
>> foo foo foo bar foo
>>
>> So I try the following filter:
>>
>> [[foo foo foo bar]enlist-input:raw[]] [[foo]]
>>
>> That results in:
>>
>> foo foo bar foo
>>
>> This is unexpected to me, which means that there is something I don't 
>> understand.
>>
>> So I have two questions:
>>
>> 1. Why is the title not appended as I expected?
>> 2. How can I get the result I want? To add complexity (cause why not?), 
>> the list will be generated dynamically based on user input, titles will 
>> only sometimes be of existing tiddlers, and the titles can have spaces xD.
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Custom export formats: TiddlyWiki available for study

[Charlie Veniot]

Thanks for bringing that up, Eric.  I totally forgot about your very nice 
and tidy javascript macro.

For whatever reason, all I could think of is $:/plugins/OokTech/TimerActions 
, which I find heavy for 
simple enabling of bilateral communications (via local storage) between 
TiddlyWiki and a BASIC Anywhere Machine program , or between any two or 
more TiddlyWiki instances (all in the same domain to access the same area 
of local storage.)
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 6:50:29 PM UTC-4 Eric Shulman wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 1:31:27 PM UTC-8 cj.v...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> ...some kind of trigger needs to be setup in TiddlyWiki to check local 
>> storage (a manual trigger would involve a human pressing a button; an 
>> automated trigger would involve some kind of timer in TiddlyWiki to trigger 
>> check of local storage and retrieving values from local storage.)
>>
>
> You can use 
> https://tiddlytools.com/timer.html#TiddlyTools%2FTime%2Faction-timeout.js 
> to set up an automatic periodic trigger to perform actions.
>
> To do this, you would create a tiddler, tagged with 
> `$:/tags/StartupAction/Browser`, containing something like this:
> ```
> \define myActions()
> ... action widgets to check local storage and retrieve values goes here ...
> \end
> <$action-timeout interval="1000" actions=<> />
> ```
>
> enjoy,
> -e
>

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[tw5] Re: Custom export formats: TiddlyWiki available for study

[Eric Shulman]

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 1:31:27 PM UTC-8 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:

> ...some kind of trigger needs to be setup in TiddlyWiki to check local 
> storage (a manual trigger would involve a human pressing a button; an 
> automated trigger would involve some kind of timer in TiddlyWiki to trigger 
> check of local storage and retrieving values from local storage.)
>

You can use 
https://tiddlytools.com/timer.html#TiddlyTools%2FTime%2Faction-timeout.js 
to set up an automatic periodic trigger to perform actions.

To do this, you would create a tiddler, tagged with 
`$:/tags/StartupAction/Browser`, containing something like this:
```
\define myActions()
... action widgets to check local storage and retrieve values goes here ...
\end
<$action-timeout interval="1000" actions=<> />
```

enjoy,
-e

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[tw5] Re: Adding duplicate title in title list

[Eric Shulman]

Answer to question #1:

By default, titles resulting from a filter are only listed once, with the 
last instance of a given title "dominantly appended" to the list (i.e., 
duplicates are removed).  Thus, in your example, adding `[[foo]]` to the 
end of the list automatically removed the first instance of `foo` from the 
front of the list.  You've already discovered the use of the `:raw` suffix 
for the `enlist-input` operator, which prevents duplicates from being 
removed when you enlist an existing space-separated list.  Another bit of 
filter syntax that helps with preserving duplicates is the "=" prefix on a 
filter run.  To get the results you expected, you would write: `[[foo foo 
foo bar]enlist-input:raw[]] =[[foo]]`.

Answer to question #2:

As you noted in your followup message, you have an existing list stored in 
a tiddler field called `fieldName`.  Let's assume this field contains 4 
items: `foo [[bar baz]] mumble [[frotz gronk snork]]` (where the 2nd and 
4th items contain spaces).  To add an item to that list, you would write 
something like this:: `[get[fieldName]enlist-input:raw[]] 
=[]`.  Note also that using `` in your filter 
is *slightly* more efficient than `all[current]`, since the `all[]` 
operator first needs to parse the operand (`current`) to determine that you 
want to retrieve the current tiddler's title, while `` 
directly retrieves the title without the added internal layer of parsing.

enjoy,
-e
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 2:17:51 PM UTC-8 andres@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Ok, so I have the following list:
>
> foo foo foo bar
>
> I then want to append 'foo' to the end of that list such that I wind up 
> with:
>
> foo foo foo bar foo
>
> So I try the following filter:
>
> [[foo foo foo bar]enlist-input:raw[]] [[foo]]
>
> That results in:
>
> foo foo bar foo
>
> This is unexpected to me, which means that there is something I don't 
> understand.
>
> So I have two questions:
>
> 1. Why is the title not appended as I expected?
> 2. How can I get the result I want? To add complexity (cause why not?), 
> the list will be generated dynamically based on user input, titles will 
> only sometimes be of existing tiddlers, and the titles can have spaces xD.
>

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[tw5] Re: Adding duplicate title in title list

[andres....@gmail.com]

I should add that the list is currently stored as a field, so my filter is 
more along the lines of
[all[current]get[fieldName]enlist-input:raw[]] []

I couldn't use the listops action widget subfilters because they 
automatically dedup so I need to use the full filter which doesn't fully 
dedup my list but, at least with this filter, still makes me lose entries.
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 10:17:51 PM UTC andres@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Ok, so I have the following list:
>
> foo foo foo bar
>
> I then want to append 'foo' to the end of that list such that I wind up 
> with:
>
> foo foo foo bar foo
>
> So I try the following filter:
>
> [[foo foo foo bar]enlist-input:raw[]] [[foo]]
>
> That results in:
>
> foo foo bar foo
>
> This is unexpected to me, which means that there is something I don't 
> understand.
>
> So I have two questions:
>
> 1. Why is the title not appended as I expected?
> 2. How can I get the result I want? To add complexity (cause why not?), 
> the list will be generated dynamically based on user input, titles will 
> only sometimes be of existing tiddlers, and the titles can have spaces xD.
>

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[tw5] Adding duplicate title in title list

[andres....@gmail.com]

Ok, so I have the following list:

foo foo foo bar

I then want to append 'foo' to the end of that list such that I wind up 
with:

foo foo foo bar foo

So I try the following filter:

[[foo foo foo bar]enlist-input:raw[]] [[foo]]

That results in:

foo foo bar foo

This is unexpected to me, which means that there is something I don't 
understand.

So I have two questions:

1. Why is the title not appended as I expected?
2. How can I get the result I want? To add complexity (cause why not?), the 
list will be generated dynamically based on user input, titles will only 
sometimes be of existing tiddlers, and the titles can have spaces xD.

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[tw5] Re: Custom export formats: TiddlyWiki available for study

[Charlie Veniot]

Once a TiddlyWiki fires up a BASIC program, that TiddlyWiki can't directly 
feed anything to the BASIC program.

The only time a TiddlyWiki can "feed" anything to the BASIC program 
directly is upon dynamically building the HTML (BASIC program, javascript 
to interpret the program, and maybe some transcluded goodies that get 
wikified upon dynamically building that HTML) just before sending all of 
that to an iframe.

Anything that changes that HTML passed to the iframe causes the BASIC 
program to restart.

The way to get TiddlyWiki talking to the program while it is running:  local 
storage  !

So whatever widgets involved with, say, a game, in a TiddlyWiki tiddler set 
values in local storage.

The BASIC program regularly checks local storage, and processing gets 
triggered based on what the BASIC program finds in local storage.

The BASIC program can also provide values to the TiddlyWiki via local 
storage, but some kind of trigger needs to be setup in TiddlyWiki to check 
local storage (a manual trigger would involve a human pressing a button; an 
automated trigger would involve some kind of timer in TiddlyWiki to trigger 
check of local storage and retrieving values from local storage.)

TiddlyWiki to BASIC communication is ridiculously easy.  The other 
direction is a bit of work.

Using BASIC for dynamic generation of good-enough graphics based on events 
happening in TiddlyWiki: awesome scenario.

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 5:06:35 AM UTC-4 barro...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Yes this creation of yours is pretty cool.  My main TW project is an 
> interactive novel/pick your own adventure browser game that already uses TW 
> core with multimedia resources, svg animations, vrml (x3d)-- so why not 
> BASIC generated graphics?
>
> Made with the methodically maddening haphazard KAOS theorems (M2HKT) of 
> WikiWitchery...
>
> i1,i2,i3,i4 = ideas
> i1 + i2 = o.0
> i1 + i3 = 0.o
> i1 + i2 +i3 = >.<
> i1 + i2 + i4 = 0.0
>
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 7:37:47 PM UTC-5 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I fooled you?  Well, my occasional moments of sneakiness (blink and 
>> you'll miss it) can be underestimated ...
>>
>> https://basicanywheremachine.neocities.org/BAM_IDE.html
>>
>> Yeah, pick any of the programs already in there, and export to 
>> .bas.html.  Then open in your browser to see running app.
>>
>> Single html file with nothing but basic program and the goodies that run 
>> the BASIC program.  All self-contained, just itching to be deployed.
>>
>> Don't mind me, that gets my geek mojo gooving something silly.
>>
>> If you sneak a peak at wwwBASIC , 
>> you'll see that a standard BASIC program in a deployable HTML file looks 
>> like this:
>>
>> `
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>   https://google.github.io/wwwbasic/wwwbasic.js";>
>> 
>> PRINT "Hello World!"
>> FOR i = 1 to 10 PRINT "Counting "; i NEXT i
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> `
>>
>> BASIC Anywhere Machine is a fully self-contained TiddlyWiki (my modified 
>> version of wwwBASIC.js is in a tiddler).  The export .bas.html process just 
>> spits out the basic program like in the example above, but also embed all 
>> of the javascript from my version of wwwbasic right into the html file, so 
>> the html file has no external references.
>>
>> Nothing revolutionary, but still pretty cool.
>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:03:55 PM UTC-4 barro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> : )  You fooled me with those iframes, I thought they were FF dev tool 
>>> popups!
>>>
>>> But pre-generated images would be best for static images but it looked 
>>> like some code had interactivity.  I have operated TW's along with web 
>>> pages that had js I couldn't run in TW, or another web app through iframes, 
>>> so this would be along those lines.
>>>
>>> I shall be delving into this Basic Anywhere further-- TY for you wiki!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 9:59:52 AM UTC-5 cj.v...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 G'day, and thanks for your interest ~

 The code is running in HTML in an iFrame now.  (That BASIC console 
 window is just a TiddlyWiki-generated window containing an iFrame to 
 display the HTML needed to run the BASIC program.

 If you export a program as .bas.html, that html file is then something 
 you can display directly in a browser window by itself, or display in an 
 iframe.

 The .bas.HTML file will have the BASIC program embedded, and also have 
 the BASIC interpreter (a modified version of wwwBASIC) embedded as well, 
 translating the BASIC program into javascript on the fly.
 On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 7:07:48 AM UTC-4 barro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> This is of interest, not just for the custom exports (I home brewed a 
> basic html export so I could build web pages independent of TW's 
> stylesheet, but with a custom stylesheet), but the BASIC anywhere.  I saw 
> that the code 

[tw5] Re: Custom export formats: TiddlyWiki available for study

[A Gloom]

Yes this creation of yours is pretty cool.  My main TW project is an 
interactive novel/pick your own adventure browser game that already uses TW 
core with multimedia resources, svg animations, vrml (x3d)-- so why not 
BASIC generated graphics?

Made with the methodically maddening haphazard KAOS theorems (M2HKT) of 
WikiWitchery...

i1,i2,i3,i4 = ideas
i1 + i2 = o.0
i1 + i3 = 0.o
i1 + i2 +i3 = >.<
i1 + i2 + i4 = 0.0

On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 7:37:47 PM UTC-5 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:

> I fooled you?  Well, my occasional moments of sneakiness (blink and you'll 
> miss it) can be underestimated ...
>
> https://basicanywheremachine.neocities.org/BAM_IDE.html
>
> Yeah, pick any of the programs already in there, and export to .bas.html.  
> Then open in your browser to see running app.
>
> Single html file with nothing but basic program and the goodies that run 
> the BASIC program.  All self-contained, just itching to be deployed.
>
> Don't mind me, that gets my geek mojo gooving something silly.
>
> If you sneak a peak at wwwBASIC , 
> you'll see that a standard BASIC program in a deployable HTML file looks 
> like this:
>
> `
> 
> 
>  
>   https://google.github.io/wwwbasic/wwwbasic.js";>
> 
> PRINT "Hello World!"
> FOR i = 1 to 10 PRINT "Counting "; i NEXT i
> 
> 
> 
> `
>
> BASIC Anywhere Machine is a fully self-contained TiddlyWiki (my modified 
> version of wwwBASIC.js is in a tiddler).  The export .bas.html process just 
> spits out the basic program like in the example above, but also embed all 
> of the javascript from my version of wwwbasic right into the html file, so 
> the html file has no external references.
>
> Nothing revolutionary, but still pretty cool.
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 8:03:55 PM UTC-4 barro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> : )  You fooled me with those iframes, I thought they were FF dev tool 
>> popups!
>>
>> But pre-generated images would be best for static images but it looked 
>> like some code had interactivity.  I have operated TW's along with web 
>> pages that had js I couldn't run in TW, or another web app through iframes, 
>> so this would be along those lines.
>>
>> I shall be delving into this Basic Anywhere further-- TY for you wiki!
>>
>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 9:59:52 AM UTC-5 cj.v...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> G'day, and thanks for your interest ~
>>>
>>> The code is running in HTML in an iFrame now.  (That BASIC console 
>>> window is just a TiddlyWiki-generated window containing an iFrame to 
>>> display the HTML needed to run the BASIC program.
>>>
>>> If you export a program as .bas.html, that html file is then something 
>>> you can display directly in a browser window by itself, or display in an 
>>> iframe.
>>>
>>> The .bas.HTML file will have the BASIC program embedded, and also have 
>>> the BASIC interpreter (a modified version of wwwBASIC) embedded as well, 
>>> translating the BASIC program into javascript on the fly.
>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 7:07:48 AM UTC-4 barro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 This is of interest, not just for the custom exports (I home brewed a 
 basic html export so I could build web pages independent of TW's 
 stylesheet, but with a custom stylesheet), but the BASIC anywhere.  I saw 
 that the code examples opened in console windows in FF-- could the code 
 run 
 (generate graphics) in html, like a iframe?

 On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 8:05:47 PM UTC-5 cj.v...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> BASIC Anywhere Machine follow-up video  
> showing the usefulness of the TW-native export formats and the three 
> additional export formats when exporting BASIC programs.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 12, 2022 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4 Charlie Veniot 
> wrote:
>
>> See details in this blog post. 
>> 
>>
>> Try the features and go some TiddlyWiki code excavation/study with 
>> the latest version of BASIC Anywhere Machine 
>> .
>>
>>- BASIC Anywhere Machine's File menu, click on the "Exit" menu 
>>item to  get into the TiddlyWiki interface
>>- Relevant tiddlers:
>>   - .BAS Exporter
>>   - .BAS.HTML Exporter
>>   - .BAS.JSON Exporter
>>   - Creating a custom export format 
>>
>>
>> Cheers !
>>
>

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