Re: [tw5] Re: Best of 2020 and the Wish-list of 2021

[Glenn Dixon]

Finally got that worked out, but yeah - very limited non-intuitive options 
there.

I think I’m just going back to Notion :(

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, at 6:41 AM, arun babu wrote:
> 
> Hi Glenn
> 
> After installation of the firefox extension, you have to open the “TW file 
> with the tiddlyclip plug in installed” as another tab in the same Firefox 
> window. After that right click the mouse in the tab with TW file, a pop up 
> menu with “dock here” option comes up. You have to select dock here. Now you 
> can go to the webpage you want to clip. Select the text and right click the 
> mouse. Again a pop up menu with some options will come. Select snip from it. 
> The select text will now get clipped into your TW file. You can select more 
> text as you need which will get clipped to the same tiddler. This tiddler 
> will be seen in the “Recents” page as the first entry.
> 
> 
> As I said in the first post of this thread, this plug in needs some 
> modernization.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:33 PM Glenn Dixon  wrote:
>> well, now it's installed but the only option I get is 'dock here' - I'll 
>> troubleshoot or bug report on github
>> 
>> On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:01:01 AM UTC-5 arunn...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> @ Glenn Dixon
>>> 
>>> I think the attached files are the latest firefox extension ( 0.1.5) and TW 
>>> plug in(01.14.2pre) of tiddlyclip respectively. Its working in my windows 
>>> laptop.
>>> On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:35:18 AM UTC+5:30 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> You have a working copy of tiddlyclip? I just tried installing the 
>>>> extension. Firefox reports it to be corrupt.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 4:51:07 PM UTC-5 arunn...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Now coming to my wishes for 2021
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. I wish for a better web clipper for TW. buggyj's tiddlyclip 
>>>>> <https://github.com/buggyj/tiddlyclip-plugin> is a good one - it can even 
>>>>> clip text from pdfs. But I think it can be made better by reducing the 
>>>>> steps needed to clip a text. Also I wish it could support streams plug 
>>>>> in. Currently all the text clipped from a single webpage or pdf is stored 
>>>>> in a single tiddler. And every time we clip a text, a link of that same 
>>>>> page also gets saved in that tiddler making the tiddler large. I wish 
>>>>> each clipped text from a single webpage to be saved as separate streams 
>>>>> tiddler. Also a real time editing of the clipped contents to be supported 
>>>>> by opening a side window of TW in the webpage being clipped. Such an 
>>>>> implentaion can be seen in remnote web clippe 
>>>>> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/remnote-clipper/ohidiiabdhnlgcaidgndbdbjlhngeboj?hl=en>r
>>>>>  and eloquent webclipper 
>>>>> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/eloquent-highlight-captur/olkmpnafmgcfindlljhgnminkhkfcckl>.
>>>>> 
>> 

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[tw5] Re: Best of 2020 and the Wish-list of 2021

[Glenn Dixon]

well, now it's installed but the only option I get is 'dock here' - I'll 
troubleshoot or bug report on github

On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:01:01 AM UTC-5 arunn...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> @ Glenn Dixon
>
> I think the attached files are the latest firefox extension ( 0.1.5) and 
> TW plug in(01.14.2pre) of tiddlyclip respectively. Its working in my 
> windows laptop.
> On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:35:18 AM UTC+5:30 dix...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> You have a working copy of tiddlyclip? I just tried installing the 
>> extension. Firefox reports it to be corrupt.
>>
>> On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 4:51:07 PM UTC-5 arunn...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Now coming to my wishes for 2021
>>>
>>> 1. I wish for a better web clipper for TW. buggyj's tiddlyclip 
>>> <https://github.com/buggyj/tiddlyclip-plugin> is a good one - it can 
>>> even clip text from pdfs. But I think it can be made better by reducing the 
>>> steps needed to clip a text. Also I wish it could support streams plug in. 
>>> Currently all the text clipped from a single webpage or pdf is stored in a 
>>> single tiddler. And every time we clip a text, a link of that same page 
>>> also gets saved in that tiddler making the tiddler large. I wish each 
>>> clipped text from a single webpage to be saved as separate streams tiddler. 
>>> Also a real time editing of the clipped contents to be supported by opening 
>>> a side window of TW in the webpage being clipped. Such an implentaion can 
>>> be seen in remnote web clippe 
>>> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/remnote-clipper/ohidiiabdhnlgcaidgndbdbjlhngeboj?hl=en>r
>>>  
>>> and eloquent webclipper 
>>> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/eloquent-highlight-captur/olkmpnafmgcfindlljhgnminkhkfcckl>
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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Re: [tw5] TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Glenn Dixon]

I apologize for that horrid mess of code. Wish there was a way to edit. Oh, 
it's email. Even though I'm entering this from a web page. 

Reason # 1,475 why I hate Google Groups :(

/rant

On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 5:38:31 AM UTC-5 Glenn Dixon wrote:

> I guess this is what happens when you keep a project going this long...
>
> Ah it was called 
> https://twitter.com/TiddlyWiki?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw;>@TiddlyWiki 
> , and its still around. (cool!) Before mobile though it was just an 
> HTML file with js that did FS operations to rewrite itself. I think? Was 
> that even possible? beering (@endearingbrew) https://twitter.com/endearingbrew/status/1346648942134476800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw;>January
>  
> 6, 2021 https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js&quot</a>; charset="utf-8"> 
>
> As if wikis were some antique relic from the past. Well, I guess they 
> kinda are, in internet years.
>
> So I guess this would be a point for rebranding away from mentioning 
> 'wiki' at all? *shrug*
>
> On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 8:07:46 PM UTC-5 TW Tones wrote:
>
>> Jeremy et al..
>>
>> If we were to use  Xememex please tell me how to say it?,  Which 
>> syllables are emphasised?. As in my prior post the issue is ease of use and 
>> speaking. If when introducing tiddlywiki (by another name) do you really 
>> want to be forced to spell it?. With a surname like mine, "Muscio" trust me 
>> I always have to spell it and few can workout how to say it just from 
>> reading it, in fact many jumble the letters to Music-o. This is actually 
>> helpful for a surname because of various reasons, like immediate detection 
>> of people who do not know me well on the phone, but it is not good as a 
>> transmissible meme.
>>
>> My notes are about the approach not a name suggestion.
>>
>> On Quines
>>
>> *A quine is a computer program which takes no input and produces a copy 
>> of its own source code as its only output. The standard terms for these 
>> programs in the computability theory and computer science literature are 
>> self-replicating programs, self-reproducing programs, and self-copying 
>> programs.  *
>>
>> Actually this definition found with a google search, is more about 
>> "trivial quines". It is wrong for tiddlywiki, because it can accept input 
>> and although it writes itself back (With new data and functions) it can 
>> also generate many different outputs.
>>
>> I like the Quine idea and I value its relationship to TW but it is 
>> ultimately only a partial description. Perhaps *advanced Quine*? (AQ) it 
>> even has a TLD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.aq not that we could 
>> register.
>>
>> I do favor the tiddler and/or a record, I have no quibble with tiddler, 
>> as it is "self defined" and can become many different things such as a 
>> record or card. My only Quibble is with "TiddlyWiki" when talking to 
>> others, I now say "TiddlyWiki platform" to new people. But for quite 
>> similar reasons I would not be happy with Xememex although like models of 
>> cars the introduction of X makes it sound like a recent model. I would once 
>> again be inclined to say " Xememex platform". Perhaps "meme platform" is 
>> more direct?.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tones
>> On Tuesday, 5 January 2021 at 20:53:02 UTC+11 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ed
>>>
>>> Re-reading this message (and studiously avoiding making any suggestions 
>>> for new names) the idea of "targeting more modern JavaScript engines" makes 
>>> me wonder about the question of "how modern a browser do you need to have 
>>> to have a working Tiddlywiki?"  
>>>
>>> With regards to minimum browsers for TW5, according to the web site it's 
>>> "Safari version 6" (from 2012!) IE version 10 (also from 2012!) and "all 
>>> recent" Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox for Android, whatever that means, but 
>>> presumably going back comparably far.  So right now TW5 is usable in 
>>> browsers that go about 8 years back, which is nice.  And TWC support 
>>> obviously goes back way further than that.
>>>
>>> How big a change in "you need this recent a browser" would you think was 
>>> acceptable in a "Xememex" project?
>>>
>>>
>>> That would be to be decided. In 2010/1 we targeted the browsers that 
>>> were in common use at the time, and presumably we’d do the same again. 
>>> Nowadays, most browsers automatically up

Re: [tw5] TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Glenn Dixon]

I guess this is what happens when you keep a project going this long...

Ah it was called 
https://twitter.com/TiddlyWiki?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw;>@TiddlyWiki , 
and its still around. (cool!) Before mobile though it was just an HTML 
file with js that did FS operations to rewrite itself. I think? Was that 
even possible? beering (@endearingbrew) https://twitter.com/endearingbrew/status/1346648942134476800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw;>January
 
6, 2021 https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js"; charset="utf-8"> 

As if wikis were some antique relic from the past. Well, I guess they kinda 
are, in internet years.

So I guess this would be a point for rebranding away from mentioning 'wiki' 
at all? *shrug*

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 8:07:46 PM UTC-5 TW Tones wrote:

> Jeremy et al..
>
> If we were to use  Xememex please tell me how to say it?,  Which syllables 
> are emphasised?. As in my prior post the issue is ease of use and speaking. 
> If when introducing tiddlywiki (by another name) do you really want to be 
> forced to spell it?. With a surname like mine, "Muscio" trust me I always 
> have to spell it and few can workout how to say it just from reading it, in 
> fact many jumble the letters to Music-o. This is actually helpful for a 
> surname because of various reasons, like immediate detection of people who 
> do not know me well on the phone, but it is not good as a transmissible 
> meme.
>
> My notes are about the approach not a name suggestion.
>
> On Quines
>
> *A quine is a computer program which takes no input and produces a copy of 
> its own source code as its only output. The standard terms for these 
> programs in the computability theory and computer science literature are 
> self-replicating programs, self-reproducing programs, and self-copying 
> programs.  *
>
> Actually this definition found with a google search, is more about 
> "trivial quines". It is wrong for tiddlywiki, because it can accept input 
> and although it writes itself back (With new data and functions) it can 
> also generate many different outputs.
>
> I like the Quine idea and I value its relationship to TW but it is 
> ultimately only a partial description. Perhaps *advanced Quine*? (AQ) it 
> even has a TLD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.aq not that we could 
> register.
>
> I do favor the tiddler and/or a record, I have no quibble with tiddler, as 
> it is "self defined" and can become many different things such as a record 
> or card. My only Quibble is with "TiddlyWiki" when talking to others, I now 
> say "TiddlyWiki platform" to new people. But for quite similar reasons I 
> would not be happy with Xememex although like models of cars the 
> introduction of X makes it sound like a recent model. I would once again be 
> inclined to say " Xememex platform". Perhaps "meme platform" is more 
> direct?.
>
> Regards
> Tones
> On Tuesday, 5 January 2021 at 20:53:02 UTC+11 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Ed
>>
>> Re-reading this message (and studiously avoiding making any suggestions 
>> for new names) the idea of "targeting more modern JavaScript engines" makes 
>> me wonder about the question of "how modern a browser do you need to have 
>> to have a working Tiddlywiki?"  
>>
>> With regards to minimum browsers for TW5, according to the web site it's 
>> "Safari version 6" (from 2012!) IE version 10 (also from 2012!) and "all 
>> recent" Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox for Android, whatever that means, but 
>> presumably going back comparably far.  So right now TW5 is usable in 
>> browsers that go about 8 years back, which is nice.  And TWC support 
>> obviously goes back way further than that.
>>
>> How big a change in "you need this recent a browser" would you think was 
>> acceptable in a "Xememex" project?
>>
>>
>> That would be to be decided. In 2010/1 we targeted the browsers that were 
>> in common use at the time, and presumably we’d do the same again. Nowadays, 
>> most browsers automatically update and so perhaps there might be less 
>> incentive to be as conservative as we have been.
>>
>> From a developer perspective, HTML and CSS have actually changed 
>> relatively little over the last 10 years, it’s in the area of JavaScript 
>> that things have radically improved: async/await, modules, classes, etc. 
>> Making these features available in the core will make the developers more 
>> productive, and make it easier for developers with contemporary JavaScript 
>> experience to join the project.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:52:20 AM UTC-5 jeremy...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small 
>>> community we have the resources to support both, unless the intention would 
>>> be for TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick 
>>> up the development more purposefully.
>>>
>>> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge 

[tw5] Re: macro for 'if field exists then A else B else C' ???

[Glenn Dixon]

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 5:55:27 PM UTC-5 TW Tones wrote:

> Dix,
>
> Since you mentioned it I had a look at LibraryThing, and started 
> cataloguing my books found in different locations "Rooms, shelves" since 
> the ISBN scanner is easy to use.
>
> Have you exported LibraryThing data? Eventually I may move this data into 
> tiddlywiki.
>

You can export to Excel, tab-delimited, JSON and Marc data (whatever that 
is)

https://www.librarything.com/more/import

Perhaps we should start a subject specific thread for libraries in 
> TiddlyWiki.
>
> Regards
> Tones
>

I would be interested still! :) 

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[tw5] Re: Best of 2020 and the Wish-list of 2021

[Glenn Dixon]

You have a working copy of tiddlyclip? I just tried installing the 
extension. Firefox reports it to be corrupt.

On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 4:51:07 PM UTC-5 arunn...@gmail.com wrote:

> Now coming to my wishes for 2021
>
> 1. I wish for a better web clipper for TW. buggyj's tiddlyclip 
>  is a good one - it can even 
> clip text from pdfs. But I think it can be made better by reducing the 
> steps needed to clip a text. Also I wish it could support streams plug in. 
> Currently all the text clipped from a single webpage or pdf is stored in a 
> single tiddler. And every time we clip a text, a link of that same page 
> also gets saved in that tiddler making the tiddler large. I wish each 
> clipped text from a single webpage to be saved as separate streams tiddler. 
> Also a real time editing of the clipped contents to be supported by opening 
> a side window of TW in the webpage being clipped. Such an implentaion can 
> be seen in remnote web clippe 
> r
>  
> and eloquent webclipper 
> 
> .
>
>

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[tw5] If you switch to Zoomin story view and your screen goes blank...

[Glenn Dixon]

I was trying to test the zoomin story view in two different wikis and it 
completely locked me out of them. Pages appear to render for about a half 
second, then the title turned vertical and the screen is blank. This is 
probably an unfortunate side effect based on my particular set of plugins 
and tweaks, but it was very disconcerting. The main tiddler page worked, 
but no way to access Control Panel to revert to a different story view.

This is on a Mac running under Bob's server thingie (downloaded executable)

Fix: under each TW directory (separate for each wiki) there is a tiddlers 
folder - inside there, sorted by date, near the top is a file named 
$__view.tid - delete it - this restored each wiki to the default view 
immediately.

Note to self: stay away from that story view!

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[tw5] Re: Interesting way to document complex syntax

[Glenn Dixon]

I will wholeheartedly endorse this!

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 2:56:27 AM UTC-6 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> I recently came across an interesting way to apply dynamic labels to 
> complex syntax examples. Here are the explainers for CSS and HTML:
>
> http://apps.workflower.fi/vocabs/css/en
> http://apps.workflower.fi/vocabs/html/en
>
> It’s a very simple idea:
>
> * On the left, there’s the text being explained, with conventional syntax 
> highlighting
> * On the right, there’s a list of terms
> * Clicking on a term lights up the examples of that term
> * Clicking on a block of text lights up the term
>
> One of the things I like about it is that it works on touch devices 
> because it doesn’t use :hover.
>
> I’d be very interested to get something like this into the core 
> documentation. Done with care it could help explain many of the subtleties 
> that trip people when learning TiddlyWiki.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: macro for 'if field exists then A else B else C' ???

[Glenn Dixon]

Thanks, but I've moved my book collection back online to LibraryThings. 

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 5:10:46 AM UTC-6 amreus wrote:

> Hopefully this is helpful.  I also find the syntax arcane and still 
> struggle with constructing code like the following. 
>
> \define makeimg()
> <$vars 
>   imgurl="http://covers.librarything.com/devkey/dev-key/medium/isbn/;
>   fallback="[[Normal Link|http://google.com]];
>   isbn={{{[{!!isbn}!is[blank]else{!!isbn13}]}}} 
> >
> <$list filter=<> emptyMessage=<>>
>   <$image source={{{[addsuffix]}}}/>
> 
> 
> \end
>
> <>
>
>
> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much for your help!
>>
>> I guess I need to give up on this particular idea. There are only so many 
>> hours I can spend struggling with something like this before I am simply 
>> ready to ditch TiddlyWiki altogether. I really struggle with the syntax. 
>> Depending on the context, I may need one, two or three curly braces, or 
>> maybe '<' - or maybe '<<' - and I can't find any rhyme or reason for these 
>> contexts. The documents seem to be written for someone familiar with 
>> multiple programming languages. That's not me.
>>
>> I just need a simple if/then/else and that seems to require a lot of 
>> strange workarounds. I guess I'll look for that elsewhere...
>>
>> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 11:20:57 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Wrap the image part in a <$list> widget that tests whether isbn is 
>>> blank. You can use the emptyMessage attribute to show the plain URL instead 
>>> when there is no isbn.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 4:10:44 PM UTC+1 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Yes, but I need a plain URL, not an image link, so wouldn't be able to 
 use <$image ...

 On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 9:08:08 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> The last example does that, it falls back to an entirely different URL 
> if no ISBN fields exist. 
>
> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 3:59:03 PM UTC+1 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> This looks nice! It appears to put all the right code in the right 
>> place. Now if only librarything servers would quit dying on me...
>>
>> Are there any other widgets with :filter and :else options that I 
>> could use to do something similar w/ a link? Specifically, use isbn or 
>> isbn13 in link, but if they don't exist show this *other* link? I've 
>> been 
>> using [ext[ link format, but need to do some if/then...
>>
>> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 8:38:38 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is an example on falling back to the generic image if no ISBN 
>>> fields are defined
>>>
>>> \define makeimg()
>>> <$vars isbn={{{[{!!isbn}!is[blank]else{!!isbn13}]}}}>
>>> <$image source={{{ [[
>>> http://covers.librarything.com/devkey/dev-key-goes-here/medium/isbn/]addsuffix]
>>>  
>>> :filter[!is[blank]] :else[[generic image URL]] }}}/>
>>> 
>>> \end
>>>
>>> <>
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: macro for 'if field exists then A else B else C' ???

[Glenn Dixon]

Thank you very much for your help!

I guess I need to give up on this particular idea. There are only so many 
hours I can spend struggling with something like this before I am simply 
ready to ditch TiddlyWiki altogether. I really struggle with the syntax. 
Depending on the context, I may need one, two or three curly braces, or 
maybe '<' - or maybe '<<' - and I can't find any rhyme or reason for these 
contexts. The documents seem to be written for someone familiar with 
multiple programming languages. That's not me.

I just need a simple if/then/else and that seems to require a lot of 
strange workarounds. I guess I'll look for that elsewhere...

On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 11:20:57 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:

> Wrap the image part in a <$list> widget that tests whether isbn is blank. 
> You can use the emptyMessage attribute to show the plain URL instead when 
> there is no isbn.
>
> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 4:10:44 PM UTC+1 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Yes, but I need a plain URL, not an image link, so wouldn't be able to 
>> use <$image ...
>>
>> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 9:08:08 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The last example does that, it falls back to an entirely different URL 
>>> if no ISBN fields exist. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 3:59:03 PM UTC+1 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 This looks nice! It appears to put all the right code in the right 
 place. Now if only librarything servers would quit dying on me...

 Are there any other widgets with :filter and :else options that I could 
 use to do something similar w/ a link? Specifically, use isbn or isbn13 in 
 link, but if they don't exist show this *other* link? I've been using 
 [ext[ 
 link format, but need to do some if/then...

 On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 8:38:38 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Here is an example on falling back to the generic image if no ISBN 
> fields are defined
>
> \define makeimg()
> <$vars isbn={{{[{!!isbn}!is[blank]else{!!isbn13}]}}}>
> <$image source={{{ [[
> http://covers.librarything.com/devkey/dev-key-goes-here/medium/isbn/]addsuffix]
>  
> :filter[!is[blank]] :else[[generic image URL]] }}}/>
> 
> \end
>
> <>
>


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[tw5] Re: macro for 'if field exists then A else B else C' ???

[Glenn Dixon]

Yes, but I need a plain URL, not an image link, so wouldn't be able to use 
<$image ...

On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 9:08:08 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:

> The last example does that, it falls back to an entirely different URL if 
> no ISBN fields exist. 
>
> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 3:59:03 PM UTC+1 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> This looks nice! It appears to put all the right code in the right place. 
>> Now if only librarything servers would quit dying on me...
>>
>> Are there any other widgets with :filter and :else options that I could 
>> use to do something similar w/ a link? Specifically, use isbn or isbn13 in 
>> link, but if they don't exist show this *other* link? I've been using [ext[ 
>> link format, but need to do some if/then...
>>
>> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 8:38:38 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Here is an example on falling back to the generic image if no ISBN 
>>> fields are defined
>>>
>>> \define makeimg()
>>> <$vars isbn={{{[{!!isbn}!is[blank]else{!!isbn13}]}}}>
>>> <$image source={{{ [[
>>> http://covers.librarything.com/devkey/dev-key-goes-here/medium/isbn/]addsuffix]
>>>  
>>> :filter[!is[blank]] :else[[generic image URL]] }}}/>
>>> 
>>> \end
>>>
>>> <>
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: macro for 'if field exists then A else B else C' ???

[Glenn Dixon]

This looks nice! It appears to put all the right code in the right place. 
Now if only librarything servers would quit dying on me...

Are there any other widgets with :filter and :else options that I could use 
to do something similar w/ a link? Specifically, use isbn or isbn13 in 
link, but if they don't exist show this *other* link? I've been using [ext[ 
link format, but need to do some if/then...

On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 8:38:38 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:

> Here is an example on falling back to the generic image if no ISBN fields 
> are defined
>
> \define makeimg()
> <$vars isbn={{{[{!!isbn}!is[blank]else{!!isbn13}]}}}>
> <$image source={{{ [[
> http://covers.librarything.com/devkey/dev-key-goes-here/medium/isbn/]addsuffix]
>  
> :filter[!is[blank]] :else[[generic image URL]] }}}/>
> 
> \end
>
> <>
>

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[tw5] Re: macro for 'if field exists then A else B else C' ???

[Glenn Dixon]

My brain is obviously incapable of understanding TW documentation. Any way, 
here is the code

\define makeimg(isbn) 
[img[http://covers.librarything.com/devkey/dev-key-goes-here/medium/isbn/$isbn$]]

<$macrocall $name="makeimg" isbn={{!!isbn}} />

I need to basically add options for "if no isbn, use isbn13. If neither, 
then use this generic book cover image"

isbn and isbn13 are both fields - when I imported, if the field was empty, 
the field was not set up in the tiddler, so it's not a blank field, it's a 
non-existent field. Half my books have one or the other, some have both, 
some have neither.

Something like that...

On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 7:09:24 AM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:

> Sounds like something I would do either with filters use the else[] 
> operator, or with nested <$view> widgets (where the content of a view 
> widget is only displayed if the target field is absent).
>
> https://tiddlywiki.com/#ViewWidget
>
> Hard to be more specific without seeing your code.
>
> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 1:32:35 PM UTC+1 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a working macro, but just realized that the field it uses is 
>> sometimes not present. There is an alternate field I would like to use in 
>> its place. I also need to use a 'dummy' result if *both* fields are not 
>> present.
>>
>> My dozens of searches through TW documentation and this group have so far 
>> proven futile. Could use some help...
>>
>>

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[tw5] macro for 'if field exists then A else B else C' ???

[Glenn Dixon]

I have a working macro, but just realized that the field it uses is 
sometimes not present. There is an alternate field I would like to use in 
its place. I also need to use a 'dummy' result if *both* fields are not 
present.

My dozens of searches through TW documentation and this group have so far 
proven futile. Could use some help...

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Glenn Dixon]

AtomicCards™

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, at 2:14 AM, BurningTreeC wrote:
> I like the name "AtomCards"
> 
> to add my two cents to the discussion :D
> 
> positiv...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. Dezember 2020 um 07:14:43 UTC+1:
>> I couldn't find if this topic has already been re-hashed this decade. But I 
>> was wondering if there is any value in discussing alternative names to the 
>> "Tiddly" part of the TiddlyWIki project. This project has been around for so 
>> long that renaming / rebranding would be quite an effort. And the Tiddly 
>> part is unique within programming projects, which helps to eliminate false 
>> positives when searching for sample code.
>> 
>> I am an American living on the Pacific Coast, so my linguistic preferences 
>> are definitely different from Jeremy's. But just saying the word 'Tiddly' 
>> out loud feels like trying to get people from certain Germany dialects to 
>> say the word "Squirrel." It always feels forced to me.
>> 
>> A joke by Lt. Commander Data on Star Trek the Next Generation was about 
>> someone mispronouncing 'kidneys' as 'kiddleys.' We the store keeper 
>> corrected him, the customer contested, "No, I said 'kiddleys.' Diddle I?"
>> 
>> From just a project standpoint, the word 'Tiddly' is trying to focus on the 
>> "small amount" of data or code that should be in any one unit. This way many 
>> units can be combined in various ways to satisfy different needs. Although 
>> it is intended to produce a Wiki-like user interface with deep linking and 
>> back references, the way you go about it is by breaking up large pieces of 
>> information into re-usable components.
>> 
>> If your goal is to create "tiddlers," then using a TiddlyWiki application 
>> would be a natural fit. If the goal of most people is to make small units of 
>> re-usable components, then perhaps a different prefix would make it more 
>> appealing. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a slight on the 
>> TiddlyWiki project as a whole, which I have been using frequently everyday.
>> 
>> There have been two alternate words kicking around in my head lately. 
>> TipWiki or DotWiki.
>> 
>> 'Tip' has a very similar double meaning to Tiddly - drunk people can be 
>> 'tiddly' or 'tipsy', and just the 'tip' of something or a 'tiddly' amount of 
>> something is quite small. There is an additional English meaning of 'tip' to 
>> mean 'a small note or suggestion.' That seems to be actually the point of 
>> TiddlyWiki: Make lots of small notes that can be re-combined as pieces of 
>> many different larger pages. 'Tiddlers' would become 'Tips', and a single 
>> 'tiddler' would become a single 'tip.' Phonetically, it feels a lot easier 
>> to talk about.
>> 
>> 'Dot' has an inherent meaning of 'smallest possible mark or amount.' This 
>> would again drive home the concept of making the smallest possible content 
>> for any one unit of information. Unfortunately, dots are already associated 
>> with the 'dot notation' of Object Oriented Programming, so that could make 
>> it a little confusing as to the overall goal for people with software 
>> development backgrounds.
>> 
>> The goal of renaming the project would be to push the desire for "smallness" 
>> of the individual unit using a more standard English word. Please forgive me 
>> if I am pushing anyone's buttons here. This topic was just on my mind. Thank 
>> you for your time.
> 

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Re: [tw5] Re: How can I find recent imports in TW Commander?

[Glenn Dixon]

@Mohammad I tried steps 1-7 as you listed them. Still ZERO results. 

Tried in Chrome - worked!

Back to Firefox - turned off uBlock - worked!

Turned uBlock back on (since it wasn't actually, theoretically, blocking 
anything on that page) - still works!

Not sure if something in uBlock was cached? Not sure about a lot of things 
with TiddlyWiki :(

On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 11:50:36 PM UTC-6 Mohammad wrote:

> @Saq
> Very smart solution. Thank you! I will add it to the Commander 
> documentation.
>
> @Glen
>
>1. I did a test, I opened https://tiddlywiki.com/ and 
>https://kookma.github.io/TW-Commander/ in my browser
>2. I see HelloThere open in https://tiddlywiki.com/ 
>3. I drag and drop the the tag pill TableOfContens from  HelloThere 
>to  https://kookma.github.io/TW-Commander/ 
>4. I see the Import UI, so I clicked on the import button
>5. Then, I clicked on the Commander from page controls in  
>https://kookma.github.io/TW-Commander/ 
>6. In the Combo Search input I entered the filter is given above by 
>Saq  [[$:/Import]links[]]
>7. I see all of them are displayed
>8. I then can do many operation in my example I tried to add a new tag 
>e.g. successful
>9. You can see the log section at the bottom of Commander tiddler and 
>see what happened 
>
>
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
>

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[tw5] Re: How can I find recent imports in TW Commander?

[Glenn Dixon]

ok, finally used the Commander to add tags by filtering for 
```[has[layout]]``` since each of the new tiddlers had a field named layout

On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 6:30:35 PM UTC-6 Glenn Dixon wrote:

> Theoretically it does, but I've been unable to get it to show me the files 
> I just imported...
>
> On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 5:28:50 PM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> If Commander accepts a filter:
>>
>> [[$:/Import]links[]]
>>
>> On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 11:46:28 PM UTC+1 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Just managed to convert a batch of markdown+YAML files to a JSON, then 
>>> cleaned up the file and imported it. 
>>>
>>> When I go to $:/import I see my 137 book files.
>>>
>>> How can I add a tag to all of them using Commander? So far I have been 
>>> unable to search or filter these files...
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: How can I find recent imports in TW Commander?

[Glenn Dixon]

Theoretically it does, but I've been unable to get it to show me the files 
I just imported...

On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 5:28:50 PM UTC-6 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:

> If Commander accepts a filter:
>
> [[$:/Import]links[]]
>
> On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 11:46:28 PM UTC+1 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Just managed to convert a batch of markdown+YAML files to a JSON, then 
>> cleaned up the file and imported it. 
>>
>> When I go to $:/import I see my 137 book files.
>>
>> How can I add a tag to all of them using Commander? So far I have been 
>> unable to search or filter these files...
>>
>

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[tw5] How can I find recent imports in TW Commander?

[Glenn Dixon]

Just managed to convert a batch of markdown+YAML files to a JSON, then 
cleaned up the file and imported it. 

When I go to $:/import I see my 137 book files.

How can I add a tag to all of them using Commander? So far I have been 
unable to search or filter these files...

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[tw5] Field as part of an image url

[Glenn Dixon]

I've tried several different syntax options and I am obviously doing it 
wrong. So how do I get this image to display in a tiddler?

[img[https://covers.openlibrary.org/b/isbn/{{!!isbn}}-M.jpg]]

The isbn field isn't interpreting/parsing and I get a broken image link. I 
also tried something similar using the "<$image" syntax. I fear this will 
require a macro, in which case I may abandon the entire project, as the 
macro syntax makes all other TW syntax look like plain text to me...

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[tw5] Re: Set Tiddler Title from fields

[Glenn Dixon]

Eric,

Just saw your 'join' idea - looks like a lot less typing. Might not make 
any difference at this point, but I have several other fields to fill, and 
(this is where I bite off more than I can chew) that would come in handy if 
I want to display a more narrative text instead of just basic table layout. 
Thanks for this option!

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 1:24:10 PM UTC-6 Eric Shulman wrote:

> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 11:14:15 AM UTC-8 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I had not seen the addsuffix before. I just tried several variations of 
>> it, all of which break everything when I attempt to add spaces between 
>> names. Is there a simple/easy way of accomplishing this? Worst case I will 
>> leave it as is and the names will be squished (FirstMiddleLast) but spaces 
>> would be better, as long as it does not involve trigonometry...
>>
>
> Try this:
> $basetitle={{{ [{!!firstname}] [{!!middlename}] [{!!lastname}] +[join[ ]] 
> }}}
>
> enjoy,
> -e
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Set Tiddler Title from fields

[Glenn Dixon]

that did it! A separate 'addsuffix' for each space. Not sure I would have 
come up with that. Thanks, again!

Now to set up blanks for the other 10 fields... 

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 1:27:02 PM UTC-6 Mark S. wrote:

> Just add them with addsuffix
>
> $basetitle={{{ [{!!firstname}addsuffix[ ]addsuffix{!!middlename}addsuffix[ 
> ]addsuffix{!!lastname}] }}} ...
>
> In case Google breaks these lines, the new, added *addsuffix* operators 
> have a space inside them.
> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 11:14:15 AM UTC-8 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you sir! I have now officially tried 175 different combinations of 
>> brackets and action-options! lol
>>
>> I had not seen the addsuffix before. I just tried several variations of 
>> it, all of which break everything when I attempt to add spaces between 
>> names. Is there a simple/easy way of accomplishing this? Worst case I will 
>> leave it as is and the names will be squished (FirstMiddleLast) but spaces 
>> would be better, as long as it does not involve trigonometry...
>>
>> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:45:11 PM UTC-6 Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>> You don't mention which approach you are using to create the tiddler. 
>>> But if it were action-createtiddler, then your $basetitle attribute might 
>>> look like this:
>>>
>>> ... $basetitle={{{ 
>>> [{!!firstname}addsuffix{!!middlename}addsuffix{!!lastname}] }}} ...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 10:32:32 AM UTC-8 dix...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 I'm experimenting. So far I have been able to take input from three 
 fields, assign them to $:/state... and then press a button which creates a 
 new tiddler. The new tiddler contains three fields w/ the content I 
 originally entered as values.

 But how can I merge these three fields and make *that* the title of the 
 new tiddler?

 This is the part that has so far eluded me...

 Assume the fields are firstname, middlename, lastname...

>>>

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[tw5] Re: Set Tiddler Title from fields

[Glenn Dixon]

Thank you sir! I have now officially tried 175 different combinations of 
brackets and action-options! lol

I had not seen the addsuffix before. I just tried several variations of it, 
all of which break everything when I attempt to add spaces between names. 
Is there a simple/easy way of accomplishing this? Worst case I will leave 
it as is and the names will be squished (FirstMiddleLast) but spaces would 
be better, as long as it does not involve trigonometry...

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:45:11 PM UTC-6 Mark S. wrote:

> You don't mention which approach you are using to create the tiddler. But 
> if it were action-createtiddler, then your $basetitle attribute might look 
> like this:
>
> ... $basetitle={{{ 
> [{!!firstname}addsuffix{!!middlename}addsuffix{!!lastname}] }}} ...
>
>
> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 10:32:32 AM UTC-8 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm experimenting. So far I have been able to take input from three 
>> fields, assign them to $:/state... and then press a button which creates a 
>> new tiddler. The new tiddler contains three fields w/ the content I 
>> originally entered as values.
>>
>> But how can I merge these three fields and make *that* the title of the 
>> new tiddler?
>>
>> This is the part that has so far eluded me...
>>
>> Assume the fields are firstname, middlename, lastname...
>>
>

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[tw5] Set Tiddler Title from fields

[Glenn Dixon]

I'm experimenting. So far I have been able to take input from three fields, 
assign them to $:/state... and then press a button which creates a new 
tiddler. The new tiddler contains three fields w/ the content I originally 
entered as values.

But how can I merge these three fields and make *that* the title of the new 
tiddler?

This is the part that has so far eluded me...

Assume the fields are firstname, middlename, lastname...

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Glenn Dixon]

TiddlyWiki Classic
TiddlyWiki 5

I think you are right in that, if this was an effort to distinguish, it is 
perhaps a bit lacking. While we're at it, maybe take up the naming scheme 
that many other projects use? Everyone seems to understand that MacOS 
Catalina and MacOS Big Sur are significantly different versions of the same 
underlying OS. They also seem to understand that backwards compatibility 
has limits. This would hold true whether or not you retain a reference to 
TiddlyWiki in the product name or not.

So Mac OS "number" to Mac OS X "number" to Mac OS X "number" "name" to the 
point where now people just say "Mac OS "name" " and rarely mention the X 
or the number.

So maybe "newname" by itself to start, then "newname: versionname" where 
the version number is tracked but not part of the branding. Keep the 
numbering scheme out of it, something only developers really care about. I 
have to say that I do really see value in dropping any reference whatsoever 
to 'wiki' in the name. That would help broaden the appeal to cover memex, 
second brain, digital garden, commonplace, Zettelkasten, etc. 
On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 6:52:20 AM UTC-6 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small community 
> we have the resources to support both, unless the intention would be for 
> TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 
>
>
> I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick up 
> the development more purposefully.
>
> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word 
> tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is 
> probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me 
> wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?
>
>
> That is indeed one of the critical questions.
>
> Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" that 
> ranges between:
>
> * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
> * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives 
> when Googling
> * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
> * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity
>
> That last category is undoubtedly a minority, but it's a very consistently 
> and forcefully expressed opinion when it does come up. I used to think that 
> view said more about the people holding it than anything else. But the 
> trouble is that I'm too close to the thing: the name "TiddlyWiki" is my 
> little piece of wordplay, and I'm attached to it. I think maybe that might 
> hold for many of us who have invested time and effort in the project. So I 
> have to pay attention to feedback that comes from a different perspective, 
> because I'm never going to be able to assume that perspective myself.
>
> The other consideration in all of this is my desire to modernise the 
> design of TW5 and establish a new baseline for backwards compatibility. 
> After 10 years, it's becoming increasingly limiting to live with some of 
> the early design decisions of TW5 (a lot of which are pretty arcane - for 
> example, "tiddlerfield" modules). I believe we would make faster and more 
> decisive progress if we lost some of that baggage.
>
> The idea of modernising the core relates to the naming change because 
> another bit of feedback that I received back in 2011-13 was that it was a 
> mistake to reuse the name TiddlyWiki for the new project. Many people felt 
> that it was unnecessarily confusing to have two distinct products with the 
> same name, and struggled with my perspective that TWC and TW5 were 
> different versions of the same thing.
>
> So, what I learned from all of the above is that names for communal things 
> are tricky. People have strong opinions because they feel they have a 
> stake. The thing that is particularly tricky is trying to change what an 
> existing name means if the previous meaning is entrenched in the community.
>
> In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough internal 
> overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a practical 
> consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards compatibility.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>
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Re: [tw5] TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Glenn Dixon]

If xememex is the only alternative, then stick with the current name. At 
least you never have to explain how to pronounce it or spell it.

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 5:10:50 AM UTC-6 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> Every time this topic comes up we end up going round in circles with 
> people proposing new names. Let’s try to avoid that, it just gets in the 
> way of the much more complex discussion that we actually need about why and 
> how we want to do this.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
> On 28 Dec 2020, at 10:59, Mat  wrote:
>
> Well, then. My absolutely best proposal is:
>
> QuineCards
>
> It partly says what TW is but still invites for further questions and 
> curiosity.
> AFAICT it is unregistered.
> And the round and friendly initials should make it easy to create a logo.
> I think it is spot on.  
>  
> <:-)
>
> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 10:54:17 AM UTC+1 Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
>> Since we last discussed this topic, I've been increasingly thinking that 
>> we should indeed make plans to change the name.
>>
>> The best alternatives I've got are "xememex" for the product, and "card" 
>> for the unit of information. I've had the domain xememex.com for a few 
>> years and the @xememex user account.
>>
>> "Xememex" is of course a palindromisation of Vannevar Bush's "memex":
>>
>>
>> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/
>>
>> There are many details to consider, but I'd be interested to know 
>> people's thoughts.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>> --
>> Jeremy Ruston
>> jer...@jermolene.com
>> https://jermolene.com
>>
>> On 28 Dec 2020, at 09:38, TiddlyTweeter  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Ciao positiv...@gmail.com
>>
>> *Small footnote to my last ...*
>>
>> Several times I have suggested that TiddlyWiki is the ULTIMATE BRICOLAGE 
>> ENGINE for computers.
>>
>> Immediately, with "Bricolage", though, you get the same issue as the 
>> "Tiddly" language specificity. 
>>
>> "Bricolage" is a French activity (akin to English D.I.Y.) so not sure its 
>> obvious relevance and accuracy would be any better in the end. Though when 
>> you look at its meaning it is very close to what we do with TW in practice: 
>> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bricolage.
>>
>> Random thoughts
>> TT
>>
>> -- 
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>> .
>>
>>
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[tw5] Re: Maintain toc-tabbed-internal-nav structure after static site export

[Glenn Dixon]

TW,

If you look at the current working usage of the term 'Static Site 
Generator' - especially in the new Jamstack context - you'll see that 
having javascript in html is presumed. So they are plain html, but with 
many scripts and connections to 'microservices' and API calls, etc. So not 
the original usage of 'static' but still superfast and if javascript is 
turned off most of the content is still there. And they *can* still be 
non-javascript, depending.

Any way, I think I would be happy with a wiki with a sidebar menu that 
collapses/expands and comments that somehow save to each tiddler. I have 
this working inside my own local wiki, just have not been able to get it 
running on my VPS web server. The workflow will not conform to my usual SSG 
> Github > Netlify workflow for my 11ty sites. At least I haven't figured 
out how to do it yet.

On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 10:13:12 PM UTC-6 TW Tones wrote:

>
>- Interactivity can be as little as responding to a search request, 
>building an index or allowing User Interface customisations. 
>- Unless they have save permissions they can at best save changes in 
>their browser and never commit the change to the website.
>   - No spam
>- Unless you are prepared to allow users write to the website you need 
>to build other methods for their changes and feedback to be sent to you.
>   - eg generate a file they can email to you.
>- "Bob and Bobexe" offers a multi-user multiple-simultaneous access 
>solution on a per-tiddler basis if you need multiple simultaneous editors.
>   - But that is node server based and a little more complex to make 
>   it internet facing.
>- I may be wrong but I consider static to also mean all that is active 
>is HTML and Links (thus javascript is not part of it, unless to export 
>supporting javascript) then the site is no longer "static".
>
> I hope that helps "frame the issue". 
> Tones
> On Sunday, 27 December 2020 at 05:32:42 UTC+11 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Re-reading your email here. I think one issue I'm having is that I don't 
>> expect much, if any, interaction on my existing static sites. Wikis are, by 
>> definition, interactive! So if you post your wiki publicly and someone 
>> makes a change or an addition, how do you capture the new information back 
>> to your other copies of the wiki? Also how do you prevent spam?
>>
>> On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 10:13:34 PM UTC-6 TW Tones wrote:
>>
>>> I think you are perhaps missing the point of a static site. 
>>>
>>> Sure you could redesign the way the static site export works but the TOC 
>>> internal nav uses macros and widgets that are not active in a static site 
>>> by definition.
>>>
>>> Why are you using a static site?
>>>
>>> My personal interest is a static site where all static pages links are 
>>> to the tiddlers full wiki, with a splash screen to warn of loading.
>>>
>>>- The static site would then have static tiddler files for search 
>>>engines etc... but as soon as you need interactive features it loads the 
>>>full wiki.
>>>- You could generate a static html tiddler from your  TOC internal 
>>>nav then export that. Keeping in mind it becomes static ie does not 
>>> respond 
>>>to interactive code.
>>>- It may be possible to generate a site index and robots file to 
>>>support single file wikis without a need to export a static site.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Tones
>>> On Saturday, 19 December 2020 at 12:25:55 UTC+11 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>

 My local TW uses toc-tabbed-internal-nav and each section expands when 
 clicked. But if I export the site, nothing expands when clicked, so all 
 the 
 sub-tiddlers are inaccessible.

 Do I need to do something special with the export code?

>>>

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[tw5] Re: I like Bob

[Glenn Dixon]

TW,

I used TiddlyDesktop for all that (except the 'classic' part) and it worked 
well when it didn't crash, which it did on a regular basis. The crashes 
were very random so difficult to debug, and I presume @Jermolene will be 
updating it after 5.1.23 (?) so maybe it will work better on OSX/Macos 
after that...

Both Bob and TD are easy to set up/use on the Mac. TD is actually easier to 
*use* from a UI perspective. But I'm liking Bob. :)

On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 1:46:53 AM UTC-6 TW Tones wrote:

>
> dix,
>
> Bob is excellent and bobexe even easier to set up. Since bob is a server 
> to get access to wikis you are in the browser and this can limit 
> interaction with the local machine (and good that is) TiddlyDesktops 
> strength include being able to open local files, launch scripts etc.. on 
> the local machine and open TiddlyWiki classic wikis.
> Horses for courses.
>
> Tones
> On Sunday, 27 December 2020 at 02:08:12 UTC+11 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> There, I said it! Don't @ me.
>>
>> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob
>>
>> This is working well on my local machine. Links to all 3 of my wikis are 
>> working. Auto-save is seamless and fast. Much less crashy than 
>> TiddlyDesktop (so far)
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Announcing the release of TiddlyWiki v5.1.23

[Glenn Dixon]

"Slug handling will allow the generation of html pages and the zip feature 
to bundle them, perhaps starting a new opportunity for TiddlyWiki to 
generate sites"

Can you expand on that a bit? This is my major pain point at this time, 
generating a site...

On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 6:22:47 PM UTC-6 TW Tones wrote:

> Now I am at my desktop and not crippled by Google Groups on Mobile, I will 
> chip in and *thank the community* for another important release.
>
> I have being using and reviewing features on the pre-release for some time 
> can can assure you all that there are immediate and slow burning advantages 
> to this new release.
>
>- With search and replace, toggle and cycle operators it will be 
>easier to do some everyday actions on tiddler fields and status handling, 
> I 
>feel this may take a little time for examples to filter out to the greater 
>audience but I also plan to showcase a few just as Mohammad did earlier.
>   - This also extends to importing and exporting data and text that 
>   tiddlywiki refactors. Combine this with JSON mangler and the world of 
> data 
>   is ours.
>- The power operator now makes it easier to write macros to convert 
>between number bases eg decimal to hexadecimal
>- new filter options will help easier to read filters to be written 
>and thus understand for those who think its a black art
>- The tm-scroll message is going to solve the long sought need to 
>navigate within tiddler navigation, for those larger tiddlers.
>- Allowing modifier keys such as ctrl, alt, meta is a nice way to 
>increase functionality of buttons and list navigation without any 
>additional screen real estate
>- Slug handling will allow the generation of html pages and the zip 
>feature to bundle them, perhaps starting a new opportunity for TiddlyWiki 
>to generate sites
>- Extended date handling, format operator and ancient dates will help 
>record deep history
>- The sortsub operator will allow us to quickly sort on values other 
>than titles and even computed values.
>- The filter and reduce operators introduce some handy ways to sum or 
>accumulate values across tiddlers.
>- The  Page and tiddler layout customisation may spark a new period of 
>alternative layouts, do publish ones you build if possible, and try and 
>ensure they cater for basic functions so they can be shared and used more 
>widely.
>
> So I hope you are as excited as me about this release, there are many new 
> opportunities beyond what I listed above and I do encourage you all to 
> share some of your experiments.
>
> Tones
>
> On Sunday, 27 December 2020 at 06:55:15 UTC+11 mwik...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you to all involved for the hard work in getting 5.1.23 completed 
>> and I am glad that TiddlyWiki made it through this difficult year* stronger 
>> as a result.
>>
>> My favourite feature of TiddlyWiki is the helpful and supportive 
>> community. That is nothing new but certainly a strong contributor to 
>> 5.1.23. I thank those helping me learn how to use this swiss-army-knife 
>> web-tool in new applications.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /Mike
>>
>> * (understatement of the decade)
>> On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 10:03:06 AM UTC-4 jeremy...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m delighted to announce that the new v5.1.23 release of TiddlyWiki is 
>>> now available:
>>>
>>> https://tiddlywiki.com/
>>> https://www.npmjs.com/package/tiddlywiki/v/5.1.23
>>>
>>> I’ve attached a thumbnail of the release note (
>>> https://tiddlywiki.com/#Release%205.1.23) to give a sense of the scale. 
>>> Usually here I would summarise the key new features, but on this occasion 
>>> there’s really too many to choose from. So instead I’d like to invite 
>>> everyone to reply here nominating their favourite feature. And of course 
>>> please do ask for clarifications if any of the changes aren’t clear.
>>>
>>> For all of us it’s been a strange year, with much heartbreaking 
>>> suffering around us. Back in April, I was delighted to get v5.1.22 out as 
>>> part of a clearing of the decks, just in case anything happened to me. As 
>>> it’s turned out, despite COVID’s best efforts, but entirely thanks to a 
>>> very high level of collaboration across the core development team, v5.1.23 
>>> has been one of the most impressive releases for a long time. I can’t wait 
>>> to see what we’ll achieve in 2021.
>>>
>>> I’d like to thank everyone involved with the development, and of course 
>>> a huge thank you to everyone here who’s time and attention makes this 
>>> project what it is today. To corrupt an old adage, TiddlyWiki will die when 
>>> the last person speaks its name. Right now there’s a chorus of voices 
>>> lifting the project, and let’s hope that will long continue,
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> Jeremy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Maintain toc-tabbed-internal-nav structure after static site export

[Glenn Dixon]

Re-reading your email here. I think one issue I'm having is that I don't 
expect much, if any, interaction on my existing static sites. Wikis are, by 
definition, interactive! So if you post your wiki publicly and someone 
makes a change or an addition, how do you capture the new information back 
to your other copies of the wiki? Also how do you prevent spam?

On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 10:13:34 PM UTC-6 TW Tones wrote:

> I think you are perhaps missing the point of a static site. 
>
> Sure you could redesign the way the static site export works but the TOC 
> internal nav uses macros and widgets that are not active in a static site 
> by definition.
>
> Why are you using a static site?
>
> My personal interest is a static site where all static pages links are to 
> the tiddlers full wiki, with a splash screen to warn of loading.
>
>- The static site would then have static tiddler files for search 
>engines etc... but as soon as you need interactive features it loads the 
>full wiki.
>- You could generate a static html tiddler from your  TOC internal nav 
>then export that. Keeping in mind it becomes static ie does not respond to 
>interactive code.
>- It may be possible to generate a site index and robots file to 
>support single file wikis without a need to export a static site.
>
> Regards
> Tones
> On Saturday, 19 December 2020 at 12:25:55 UTC+11 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> My local TW uses toc-tabbed-internal-nav and each section expands when 
>> clicked. But if I export the site, nothing expands when clicked, so all the 
>> sub-tiddlers are inaccessible.
>>
>> Do I need to do something special with the export code?
>>
>

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[tw5] I like Bob

[Glenn Dixon]

There, I said it! Don't @ me.

https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob

This is working well on my local machine. Links to all 3 of my wikis are 
working. Auto-save is seamless and fast. Much less crashy than 
TiddlyDesktop (so far)

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[tw5] Re: GitHub + Netlify = recursion!

[Glenn Dixon]

I was not using the Node.js version

On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 5:38:32 PM UTC-6 Prestige wrote:

> So, the wiki can be used over cloud for free? I mean, the node version?
>
> On Tuesday, 22 December 2020 at 18:27:22 UTC+5:30 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Most of my web sites use the Eleventy SSG, changes push to GitHub, then 
>> Netlify sees those changes and auto-rebuilds.
>>
>> This also works with TW (single-file). However, the GitHub Saver info is 
>> *also* pushed to Netlify, which means that if I attempt to edit my TW from 
>> the web site, it tries to save that back down to GitHub, which would then 
>> trigger another rebuild. So I get javascript recursion errors.
>>
>> Honestly what I need is password-protection and a way to have my TW on 
>> the web without the recursion problem. I tried using the node.js version of 
>> TW and push it to GitHub Pages (instead of Netlify) but the save process 
>> never completed.
>>
>> Help!
>>
>

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[tw5] GitHub + Netlify = recursion!

[Glenn Dixon]

Most of my web sites use the Eleventy SSG, changes push to GitHub, then 
Netlify sees those changes and auto-rebuilds.

This also works with TW (single-file). However, the GitHub Saver info is 
*also* pushed to Netlify, which means that if I attempt to edit my TW from 
the web site, it tries to save that back down to GitHub, which would then 
trigger another rebuild. So I get javascript recursion errors.

Honestly what I need is password-protection and a way to have my TW on the 
web without the recursion problem. I tried using the node.js version of TW 
and push it to GitHub Pages (instead of Netlify) but the save process never 
completed.

Help!

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[tw5] Re: Maintain toc-tabbed-internal-nav structure after static site export

[Glenn Dixon]

as a follow-up, I am now back to a single-file TW. I am also no longer 
invoking the TOC via macro, just simple HTML using 
toc-selective-expandable. For some reason using the macro was indenting 
everything, adding ordered list numbers, and causing most entries to wrap 
and generally creating chaos in the layout display.

On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 8:35:35 AM UTC-6 Glenn Dixon wrote:

> ok, I should update this. While the 'toc-tabbed-internal-nav' is nice for 
> displaying, it's not so great for actually *using* on my local desktop. As 
> in, you can't actually open any individual tiddlers from that view. Which 
> kinda defeats the purpose, no?
>
> So, back to a more traditional TOC structure. Unfortunately the expandable 
> items are still NOT expandable in the exported HTML files :( So - I'm back 
> to square one on my original question...
>
> On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 6:08:17 AM UTC-6 Glenn Dixon wrote:
>
>> I assure you, I am *not* missing the point. :) Most of my static sites 
>> are html, but they also tend to have at least a splash of javascript. The 
>> whole 'jamstack' thing. Generally just for menu toggling, similar to what 
>> the macros do inside TW. 
>>
>> I am using a static site because I want to simply display my TW publicly, 
>> w/out being editable. So are you saying that's not possible w/ the 
>> single-file TW? Would this be easier w/ the node.js version?
>>
>> On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 10:13:34 PM UTC-6 TW Tones wrote:
>>
>>> I think you are perhaps missing the point of a static site. 
>>>
>>> Sure you could redesign the way the static site export works but the TOC 
>>> internal nav uses macros and widgets that are not active in a static site 
>>> by definition.
>>>
>>> Why are you using a static site?
>>>
>>> My personal interest is a static site where all static pages links are 
>>> to the tiddlers full wiki, with a splash screen to warn of loading.
>>>
>>>- The static site would then have static tiddler files for search 
>>>engines etc... but as soon as you need interactive features it loads the 
>>>full wiki.
>>>- You could generate a static html tiddler from your  TOC internal 
>>>nav then export that. Keeping in mind it becomes static ie does not 
>>> respond 
>>>to interactive code.
>>>- It may be possible to generate a site index and robots file to 
>>>support single file wikis without a need to export a static site.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Tones
>>> On Saturday, 19 December 2020 at 12:25:55 UTC+11 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My local TW uses toc-tabbed-internal-nav and each section expands when 
>>>> clicked. But if I export the site, nothing expands when clicked, so all 
>>>> the 
>>>> sub-tiddlers are inaccessible.
>>>>
>>>> Do I need to do something special with the export code?
>>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Maintain toc-tabbed-internal-nav structure after static site export

[Glenn Dixon]

ok, I should update this. While the 'toc-tabbed-internal-nav' is nice for 
displaying, it's not so great for actually *using* on my local desktop. As 
in, you can't actually open any individual tiddlers from that view. Which 
kinda defeats the purpose, no?

So, back to a more traditional TOC structure. Unfortunately the expandable 
items are still NOT expandable in the exported HTML files :( So - I'm back 
to square one on my original question...

On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 6:08:17 AM UTC-6 Glenn Dixon wrote:

> I assure you, I am *not* missing the point. :) Most of my static sites are 
> html, but they also tend to have at least a splash of javascript. The whole 
> 'jamstack' thing. Generally just for menu toggling, similar to what the 
> macros do inside TW. 
>
> I am using a static site because I want to simply display my TW publicly, 
> w/out being editable. So are you saying that's not possible w/ the 
> single-file TW? Would this be easier w/ the node.js version?
>
> On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 10:13:34 PM UTC-6 TW Tones wrote:
>
>> I think you are perhaps missing the point of a static site. 
>>
>> Sure you could redesign the way the static site export works but the TOC 
>> internal nav uses macros and widgets that are not active in a static site 
>> by definition.
>>
>> Why are you using a static site?
>>
>> My personal interest is a static site where all static pages links are to 
>> the tiddlers full wiki, with a splash screen to warn of loading.
>>
>>- The static site would then have static tiddler files for search 
>>engines etc... but as soon as you need interactive features it loads the 
>>full wiki.
>>- You could generate a static html tiddler from your  TOC internal 
>>nav then export that. Keeping in mind it becomes static ie does not 
>> respond 
>>to interactive code.
>>- It may be possible to generate a site index and robots file to 
>>support single file wikis without a need to export a static site.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tones
>> On Saturday, 19 December 2020 at 12:25:55 UTC+11 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> My local TW uses toc-tabbed-internal-nav and each section expands when 
>>> clicked. But if I export the site, nothing expands when clicked, so all the 
>>> sub-tiddlers are inaccessible.
>>>
>>> Do I need to do something special with the export code?
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Maintain toc-tabbed-internal-nav structure after static site export

[Glenn Dixon]

I assure you, I am *not* missing the point. :) Most of my static sites are 
html, but they also tend to have at least a splash of javascript. The whole 
'jamstack' thing. Generally just for menu toggling, similar to what the 
macros do inside TW. 

I am using a static site because I want to simply display my TW publicly, 
w/out being editable. So are you saying that's not possible w/ the 
single-file TW? Would this be easier w/ the node.js version?

On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 10:13:34 PM UTC-6 TW Tones wrote:

> I think you are perhaps missing the point of a static site. 
>
> Sure you could redesign the way the static site export works but the TOC 
> internal nav uses macros and widgets that are not active in a static site 
> by definition.
>
> Why are you using a static site?
>
> My personal interest is a static site where all static pages links are to 
> the tiddlers full wiki, with a splash screen to warn of loading.
>
>- The static site would then have static tiddler files for search 
>engines etc... but as soon as you need interactive features it loads the 
>full wiki.
>- You could generate a static html tiddler from your  TOC internal nav 
>then export that. Keeping in mind it becomes static ie does not respond to 
>interactive code.
>- It may be possible to generate a site index and robots file to 
>support single file wikis without a need to export a static site.
>
> Regards
> Tones
> On Saturday, 19 December 2020 at 12:25:55 UTC+11 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> My local TW uses toc-tabbed-internal-nav and each section expands when 
>> clicked. But if I export the site, nothing expands when clicked, so all the 
>> sub-tiddlers are inaccessible.
>>
>> Do I need to do something special with the export code?
>>
>

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[tw5] Maintain toc-tabbed-internal-nav structure after static site export

[Glenn Dixon]

My local TW uses toc-tabbed-internal-nav and each section expands when 
clicked. But if I export the site, nothing expands when clicked, so all the 
sub-tiddlers are inaccessible.

Do I need to do something special with the export code?

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