Re: [tw5] Re: Question about the TiddlyWiki GG
Sorry for this late reply, now i rarely visit GG (here or in TiddlyTalk)
I've seen your rejection to tiddlytalk and your reasons. I understand them
but also I think that you could have made a hasty decision. I also think
that the edit of posts was a hasty decision. In your analogy there are some
point that, IMHo; you don't take into account. They are about how we learn:
with lessons/errors and with time to understand well the situation. The
errors can be similar but they necessarily are equal, although the origin
of annoyance was the same. Jack didn't have time to learn about it.
TiddlyTalk also is a forum in "construction". The new options avaible in
TiddlyTalk need to be carefully evaluated, but with so many options the
community need more time to use them "correctly".
About your problem with the UI, I don't know how much could be mitigated so
that it would not be annoying for you. Maybe with more details the
"experts" (I'm not one) in Discouse can help you. The admin team also is
work hard to see how solve the requirement of community.
El jueves, 16 de septiembre de 2021 a las 16:06:30 UTC+2, cj.v...@gmail.com
escribió:
> Well, personal cognitive issues regarding TiddlyTalk aside, edit of posts
> by moderators, in and of itself, is reason enough for me to not participate
> in a forum.
>
> That kind of thing goes against my personal I.T. philosophies ("protect
> the system", "protect the users from bad system behaviour", "don't mess
> with the users data unless asked to mess with it", "don't break things",
> "no surprises", "no hidden interfaces", yadda yadda yadda.)
>
> Deletion of any posts that are not in line with terms of use policies,
> that I totally agree with. Tagging posts to make them easy to find, that's
> very cool.
>
> And views vary depending on the thing. Forum vs Wiki vs Blog vs whatever.
>
> Doesn't matter. I'll stop harping about it.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 10:31 AM Jeremy Ruston
> wrote:
>
>> Hi CJ
>>
>> Thanks for the confirmation, Jeremy. That is the way I like things.
>>
>> And the push I needed to bail on TiddlyTalk completely.
>>
>>
>> I think the incident was a momentary misjudgement on the part of an
>> individual. It has led to a healthy discussion about what users expect when
>> they write a post, and I think the conclusion is that the power to edit
>> should only be used in exceptional circumstances. The admins have always
>> had the power to delete posts and avoided exercising it except for spam,
>> and so I don't see a reason to think that the new power to edit posts would
>> be abused either.
>>
>> But of course I understand from your comments elsewhere that you have
>> other concerns with talk.tiddlywiki.org about usability and simplicity
>> which may well be more significant factors in your decisions. I'd just like
>> to say that it is an experiment; we're feeling our way to what is right for
>> this community, and so necessarily it will take a little time for things to
>> settle down.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>> Re TiddlyTalk, I don't know which is worse: that people's posts can be
>> edited by moderators, or that there is no clear "Terms of Use" or other
>> indicator that posts can be edited by moderators. I recommend that
>> TiddlyTalk make it very clear that moderators can and do edit posts, and
>> make it very clear what the intent and related policies are.
>>
>> BTW, it isn't about trust. Sure I trust the moderators. I also trust
>> that to err is human. We are human
>>
>> An analogy:
>>
>> Jack arrives at the pub with two black eyes, and the lads ask: "What's
>> with the black eyes?"
>>
>> Jack points at his left one and says: "I was at the concert in the park
>> last night. In front of me is a lady in a summer dress, and she has a
>> serious wedgie, the dress right up the crack of the bum and it looks
>> ridiculously uncomfortable. So I decided to help her out by gently tugging
>> on the dress at bum level to remove the wedgie. That's when she turned
>> around and punched me right in the left eye."
>>
>> The lads: "Oh man. You moron. Why the right black eye?"
>>
>> Jack: "When I came to, I realized that I had really upset the lady, and
>> I felt awful about it. So after I got up off the ground, I stuck out these
>> three fingers with my hand like so, and poked the dress back in."
>>
>> The intentions may be good, but are they appropriate?
>>
>> Just because one can do something, should one really do it?
>>
>> And if you have given yourself the right to do something, should that
>> right be very well indicated and should there be an opportunity for
>> consent? (i.e. if the user does not give consent, then user cannot join.)
>>
>> Something like that.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 9:31:57 AM UTC-3 jeremy...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi CJ
>>>
>>> That's correct, Google Groups allows admins to delete posts and to reply
>>> to the author, but nothing else.
Re: [tw5] Re: Question about the TiddlyWiki GG
Well, personal cognitive issues regarding TiddlyTalk aside, edit of posts
by moderators, in and of itself, is reason enough for me to not participate
in a forum.
That kind of thing goes against my personal I.T. philosophies ("protect the
system", "protect the users from bad system behaviour", "don't mess with
the users data unless asked to mess with it", "don't break things", "no
surprises", "no hidden interfaces", yadda yadda yadda.)
Deletion of any posts that are not in line with terms of use policies, that
I totally agree with. Tagging posts to make them easy to find, that's very
cool.
And views vary depending on the thing. Forum vs Wiki vs Blog vs whatever.
Doesn't matter. I'll stop harping about it.
On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 10:31 AM Jeremy Ruston
wrote:
> Hi CJ
>
> Thanks for the confirmation, Jeremy. That is the way I like things.
>
> And the push I needed to bail on TiddlyTalk completely.
>
>
> I think the incident was a momentary misjudgement on the part of an
> individual. It has led to a healthy discussion about what users expect when
> they write a post, and I think the conclusion is that the power to edit
> should only be used in exceptional circumstances. The admins have always
> had the power to delete posts and avoided exercising it except for spam,
> and so I don't see a reason to think that the new power to edit posts would
> be abused either.
>
> But of course I understand from your comments elsewhere that you have
> other concerns with talk.tiddlywiki.org about usability and simplicity
> which may well be more significant factors in your decisions. I'd just like
> to say that it is an experiment; we're feeling our way to what is right for
> this community, and so necessarily it will take a little time for things to
> settle down.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> Re TiddlyTalk, I don't know which is worse: that people's posts can be
> edited by moderators, or that there is no clear "Terms of Use" or other
> indicator that posts can be edited by moderators. I recommend that
> TiddlyTalk make it very clear that moderators can and do edit posts, and
> make it very clear what the intent and related policies are.
>
> BTW, it isn't about trust. Sure I trust the moderators. I also trust
> that to err is human. We are human
>
> An analogy:
>
> Jack arrives at the pub with two black eyes, and the lads ask: "What's
> with the black eyes?"
>
> Jack points at his left one and says: "I was at the concert in the park
> last night. In front of me is a lady in a summer dress, and she has a
> serious wedgie, the dress right up the crack of the bum and it looks
> ridiculously uncomfortable. So I decided to help her out by gently tugging
> on the dress at bum level to remove the wedgie. That's when she turned
> around and punched me right in the left eye."
>
> The lads: "Oh man. You moron. Why the right black eye?"
>
> Jack: "When I came to, I realized that I had really upset the lady, and I
> felt awful about it. So after I got up off the ground, I stuck out these
> three fingers with my hand like so, and poked the dress back in."
>
> The intentions may be good, but are they appropriate?
>
> Just because one can do something, should one really do it?
>
> And if you have given yourself the right to do something, should that
> right be very well indicated and should there be an opportunity for
> consent? (i.e. if the user does not give consent, then user cannot join.)
>
> Something like that.
>
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 9:31:57 AM UTC-3 jeremy...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hi CJ
>>
>> That's correct, Google Groups allows admins to delete posts and to reply
>> to the author, but nothing else.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:19:39 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Am I correct in saying that GG moderators do not and cannot edit posts
>>> by members?
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/59dc52bb-0fe0-414b-885a-6d97bb764505n%40googlegroups.com
>
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/xaKGBsFpx1U/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/FF89D079-56D8-494B-8600-675F3B1FBFAD%40gmail.com
>
Re: [tw5] Re: Question about the TiddlyWiki GG
Hi CJ > Thanks for the confirmation, Jeremy. That is the way I like things. > > And the push I needed to bail on TiddlyTalk completely. I think the incident was a momentary misjudgement on the part of an individual. It has led to a healthy discussion about what users expect when they write a post, and I think the conclusion is that the power to edit should only be used in exceptional circumstances. The admins have always had the power to delete posts and avoided exercising it except for spam, and so I don't see a reason to think that the new power to edit posts would be abused either. But of course I understand from your comments elsewhere that you have other concerns with talk.tiddlywiki.org about usability and simplicity which may well be more significant factors in your decisions. I'd just like to say that it is an experiment; we're feeling our way to what is right for this community, and so necessarily it will take a little time for things to settle down. Best wishes Jeremy > > Re TiddlyTalk, I don't know which is worse: that people's posts can be > edited by moderators, or that there is no clear "Terms of Use" or other > indicator that posts can be edited by moderators. I recommend that > TiddlyTalk make it very clear that moderators can and do edit posts, and make > it very clear what the intent and related policies are. > > BTW, it isn't about trust. Sure I trust the moderators. I also trust that > to err is human. We are human > > An analogy: > > Jack arrives at the pub with two black eyes, and the lads ask: "What's with > the black eyes?" > > Jack points at his left one and says: "I was at the concert in the park last > night. In front of me is a lady in a summer dress, and she has a serious > wedgie, the dress right up the crack of the bum and it looks ridiculously > uncomfortable. So I decided to help her out by gently tugging on the dress > at bum level to remove the wedgie. That's when she turned around and punched > me right in the left eye." > > The lads: "Oh man. You moron. Why the right black eye?" > > Jack: "When I came to, I realized that I had really upset the lady, and I > felt awful about it. So after I got up off the ground, I stuck out these > three fingers with my hand like so, and poked the dress back in." > > The intentions may be good, but are they appropriate? > > Just because one can do something, should one really do it? > > And if you have given yourself the right to do something, should that right > be very well indicated and should there be an opportunity for consent? (i.e. > if the user does not give consent, then user cannot join.) > > Something like that. > >> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 9:31:57 AM UTC-3 jeremy...@gmail.com >> wrote: >> Hi CJ >> >> That's correct, Google Groups allows admins to delete posts and to reply to >> the author, but nothing else. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Jeremy >> >>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:19:39 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote: >>> Am I correct in saying that GG moderators do not and cannot edit posts by >>> members? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/59dc52bb-0fe0-414b-885a-6d97bb764505n%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/FF89D079-56D8-494B-8600-675F3B1FBFAD%40gmail.com.
[tw5] Re: Question about the TiddlyWiki GG
Thanks for the confirmation, Jeremy. That is the way I like things. And the push I needed to bail on TiddlyTalk completely. Re TiddlyTalk, I don't know which is worse: that people's posts can be edited by moderators, or that there is no clear "Terms of Use" or other indicator that posts can be edited by moderators. I recommend that TiddlyTalk make it very clear that moderators can and do edit posts, and make it very clear what the intent and related policies are. BTW, it isn't about trust. Sure I trust the moderators. I also trust that to err is human. We are human An analogy: Jack arrives at the pub with two black eyes, and the lads ask: "What's with the black eyes?" Jack points at his left one and says: "I was at the concert in the park last night. In front of me is a lady in a summer dress, and she has a serious wedgie, the dress right up the crack of the bum and it looks ridiculously uncomfortable. So I decided to help her out by gently tugging on the dress at bum level to remove the wedgie. That's when she turned around and punched me right in the left eye." The lads: "Oh man. You moron. Why the right black eye?" Jack: "When I came to, I realized that I had really upset the lady, and I felt awful about it. So after I got up off the ground, I stuck out these three fingers with my hand like so, and poked the dress back in." The intentions may be good, but are they appropriate? Just because one can do something, should one really do it? And if you have given yourself the right to do something, should that right be very well indicated and should there be an opportunity for consent? (i.e. if the user does not give consent, then user cannot join.) Something like that. On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 9:31:57 AM UTC-3 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi CJ > > That's correct, Google Groups allows admins to delete posts and to reply > to the author, but nothing else. > > Best wishes > > Jeremy > > On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:19:39 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> Am I correct in saying that GG moderators do not and cannot edit posts by >> members? > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/59dc52bb-0fe0-414b-885a-6d97bb764505n%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Question about the TiddlyWiki GG
Hi CJ That's correct, Google Groups allows admins to delete posts and to reply to the author, but nothing else. Best wishes Jeremy On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:19:39 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote: > Am I correct in saying that GG moderators do not and cannot edit posts by > members? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/0e235af7-29a0-46b9-9dc4-46ef0e867996n%40googlegroups.com.
