RE: [tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long

2021-10-16 Thread hwwobbe 
Ciao TTThanks for the link to additional information.  I'll certainly review 
that material since this topic and it's related issues are on my mind quite a 
bit lately as I re-design some systems that pre-date TW5.2.0.Best,HansSent from 
my Galaxy
 Original message From: TiddlyTweeter  
Date: 2021-10-16  09:00  (GMT-05:00) To: TiddlyWiki 
 Subject: [tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long 
Ciao Hans (hww...@gmail.com)Meanwhile, till I can find the exact Bimlas 
discussion, I did write a long note on Zettlekasten that had an interesting 
ensuing discussion ... 
https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/pCcWB2zVD40/m/3YILA5jsBQAJ Best, TT 
hww...@gmail.com wrote:@TiddlyTweeterThe thoughts in this thread are a good 
review of some basic concepts would likely be helpful to newCoimers as well as 
veterans.  Hence I think there (/should be)  interest in accepting your offer 
to add some links.



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[tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long

2021-10-16 Thread TiddlyTweeter 
Ciao Hans (hww...@gmail.com)

Meanwhile, till I can find the exact Bimlas discussion, I did write a long 
note on Zettlekasten that had an interesting ensuing discussion 
... https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/pCcWB2zVD40/m/3YILA5jsBQAJ 

Best, TT
 
hww...@gmail.com wrote:

> @TiddlyTweeter
>
> The thoughts in this thread are a good review of some basic concepts would 
> likely be helpful to newCoimers as well as veterans.  Hence I think there 
> (/should be)  interest in accepting your offer to add some links.
>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long

2021-10-16 Thread Hans Wobbe 
@ TiddlyTweeter

The thoughts in this thread are a good review of some basic concepts would 
likely be helpful to newCoimers as well as veterans.  Hence I think there 
(/should be)  interest in accepting your offer to add some links.


Cheers,
Hans


On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 6:26:11 AM UTC-4 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> Mat wrote (slightly edit by me):
>
>> ... you ... *reuse the content in different narratives*. But if you 
>> don't reuse the content in other narratives, then there is no real need for 
>> ... fine grained partition of the content.
>
>  
>
>> ...but you say this is for your Zettelkasten ... I.e if your purpose is 
>> "zettelkasten" then wouldn't that steer how long the content of your 
>> tiddlers would be?
>>
>
> Right.  Traditional Zettelkasten entries never change their titles. And 
> they tend towards a strict, delimited, unchanging, scope. FWIW, in various 
> experiments in TW with Zettlekasten, there has been *translusion* used to 
> cope, particularly, with "inter-referring" between them.  A modest 
> extension from the basic idea of their "invariability". Bimlas has written 
> and worked extensively about this. I'll look for his links if there is 
> interest.
>
> Side comment, TT
>
> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 6:52:53 PM UTC+2 rikagol...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I use my Tiddlywiki as a Zettelkaten (work in process!) and some of my 
>>> Tiddlers are quite long. I title the Tiddler with a unique piece of 
>>> information, in my own words, and then I include a description and 
>>> resources. Some of my Tiddlers get very long...maybe too long. Is there a 
>>> best practice for Tiddler length and what to include in the Tiddler?
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long

2021-10-16 Thread TiddlyTweeter 
Mat wrote (slightly edit by me):

> ... you ... *reuse the content in different narratives*. But if you don't 
> reuse the content in other narratives, then there is no real need for ... 
> fine grained partition of the content.

 

> ...but you say this is for your Zettelkasten ... I.e if your purpose is 
> "zettelkasten" then wouldn't that steer how long the content of your 
> tiddlers would be?
>

Right.  Traditional Zettelkasten entries never change their titles. And 
they tend towards a strict, delimited, unchanging, scope. FWIW, in various 
experiments in TW with Zettlekasten, there has been *translusion* used to 
cope, particularly, with "inter-referring" between them.  A modest 
extension from the basic idea of their "invariability". Bimlas has written 
and worked extensively about this. I'll look for his links if there is 
interest.

Side comment, TT

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 6:52:53 PM UTC+2 rikagol...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I use my Tiddlywiki as a Zettelkaten (work in process!) and some of my 
>> Tiddlers are quite long. I title the Tiddler with a unique piece of 
>> information, in my own words, and then I include a description and 
>> resources. Some of my Tiddlers get very long...maybe too long. Is there a 
>> best practice for Tiddler length and what to include in the Tiddler?
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long

2021-10-16 Thread Mat 
One main point with a tiddler is that you can *reuse the content in 
different narratives*. But if you don't reuse the content in other 
narratives, then there is no real need for a more fine grained partition of 
the content.

As the others describe: In practice this often means creating a tiddler of 
any arbitrary length. If the need arises to split it, then just do so. It 
is a natural and "need based" process. Often the context steers how long 
tiddlers are. Many of my tiddlers are just the tiddler title, no content 
text. Some are several pages long. Some are several pages because they are 
generated lists, but occasionally it is several pages of raw text. 
Obviously, the use case for your wiki affects this; are you a novel author 
or is the TW used for your shopping lists.

...but you say this is for your Zettelkasten (a system I've never used) so 
wouldn't you face the exact same "problem" regardless of how you manifest 
this? I.e if your purpose is "zettelkasten" then wouldn't that steer how 
long the content of your tiddlers would be?

<:-)
On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 6:52:53 PM UTC+2 rikagol...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I use my Tiddlywiki as a Zettelkaten (work in process!) and some of my 
> Tiddlers are quite long. I title the Tiddler with a unique piece of 
> information, in my own words, and then I include a description and 
> resources. Some of my Tiddlers get very long...maybe too long. Is there a 
> best practice for Tiddler length and what to include in the Tiddler?

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long

2021-10-16 Thread TW Tones 
I would support Charlies comment by pointing out a case for long tiddlers 
(when search is a available to you) that some people just find it easier 
not to break information up into smaller pieces, sometimes this draws your 
attention to the fact you are almost repeating yourself. If and when you 
must then consider breaking it up. "Horses for courses".

On Saturday, 16 October 2021 at 03:17:15 UTC+11 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:

> G'day,
>
> The best practices are the ones that fit you, and they incrementally 
> evolve as you evolve making all kinds of discoveries.
>
> When you find your workflows and organization becoming unwieldy, then 
> you'll know you need to change something.  (Change when it "costs", in 
> whatever way imaginable, too much not to change.)
>
> So keep doing what you are doing, but find little moments to read about 
> features in TiddlyWiki, about plugins, about all things 
> information/knowledge/documentation management.
>
> Take all that you read and park each in the back of your mind, so that 
> when you do run into things getting unwieldy, you'll have a "wait a minute, 
> I read something about that", if not enough for you to know what to do, 
> you'll know enough to ask the kinds of questions that get you help right 
> pronto.
>
> Find little reads like What Do We Mean by Componentization (for 
> Knowledge)? 
> ,
>  
> and investigate features like transclusion 
>  (and the great "Excise 
> " feature Tones mentioned) and 
> the terrific "Details widget" plugin 
>  by 
> Thomas Elmiger .
>
> Cheers !
> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:52:53 PM UTC-3 rikagol...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I use my Tiddlywiki as a Zettelkaten (work in process!) and some of my 
>> Tiddlers are quite long. I title the Tiddler with a unique piece of 
>> information, in my own words, and then I include a description and 
>> resources. Some of my Tiddlers get very long...maybe too long. Is there a 
>> best practice for Tiddler length and what to include in the Tiddler?
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long

2021-10-15 Thread Charlie Veniot 
G'day,

The best practices are the ones that fit you, and they incrementally evolve 
as you evolve making all kinds of discoveries.

When you find your workflows and organization becoming unwieldy, then 
you'll know you need to change something.  (Change when it "costs", in 
whatever way imaginable, too much not to change.)

So keep doing what you are doing, but find little moments to read about 
features in TiddlyWiki, about plugins, about all things 
information/knowledge/documentation management.

Take all that you read and park each in the back of your mind, so that when 
you do run into things getting unwieldy, you'll have a "wait a minute, I 
read something about that", if not enough for you to know what to do, 
you'll know enough to ask the kinds of questions that get you help right 
pronto.

Find little reads like What Do We Mean by Componentization (for Knowledge)? 
,
 
and investigate features like transclusion 
 (and the great "Excise 
" feature Tones mentioned) and the 
terrific "Details widget" plugin 
 by 
Thomas Elmiger .

Cheers !
On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:52:53 PM UTC-3 rikagol...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I use my Tiddlywiki as a Zettelkaten (work in process!) and some of my 
> Tiddlers are quite long. I title the Tiddler with a unique piece of 
> information, in my own words, and then I include a description and 
> resources. Some of my Tiddlers get very long...maybe too long. Is there a 
> best practice for Tiddler length and what to include in the Tiddler?

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long

2021-10-14 Thread TW Tones 
Also the editoolbar button "Excise" is great for breaking one tiddler into 
more than one link, tag or transclusion available.

There are often natural break locations like with a heading and all its 
"children" or things that you may reuse.

On Friday, 15 October 2021 at 03:52:53 UTC+11 rikagol...@gmail.com wrote:

> I use my Tiddlywiki as a Zettelkaten (work in process!) and some of my 
> Tiddlers are quite long. I title the Tiddler with a unique piece of 
> information, in my own words, and then I include a description and 
> resources. Some of my Tiddlers get very long...maybe too long. Is there a 
> best practice for Tiddler length and what to include in the Tiddler?

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlers are dense and long

2021-10-14 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki 
I think the length is up to you, depending on your own interpretation of 
"semantic unit"

See [Philosophy of 
Tiddlers](https://tiddlywiki.com/#Philosophy%20of%20Tiddlers)

In terms of pragmatics, there have been multiple approaches to how to deal 
with long tiddlers. One of the current approaches is discussed in this  
[thread](https://talk.tiddlywiki.org/t/section-editor-plugin-first-stable-release/1060)

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