[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[Abraham Samma]

It took me a while to see why @TiddlyTweeter thought this was a big deal. 
It turns out, PMario has created a solution to a problem I have yet to 
experience. I like this; a brilliant prescriptive solution. Kudos

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:46:55 PM UTC+3, PMario wrote:
>
> Hi Folks, 
>
> I'm happy to announce the availability of the bundle-plugin 
> , [1] 
> discussed in the group for some time now. See the discussion at: Bundling 
> - It would help - HOW to do it reliably? [2] 
>
>
> - 2 export concepts
>- Bundle function as a list of tiddlers. One tiddler per line
>- Filtered bundles. So you can use filters instead of list tiddlers by 
> name
>
>  - Config option to select position eg: 
>- SideBar or
>- MoreSideBar
>
>  - several examples of "useful" filters
>- including a preview filters in AdvancedSearch
>
>  - visible info about number of tiddlers, that will be exported 
>- eg: 3/4 ... 3 out of 4 tiddlers will be exported. ... So there may be 
> a typo .. 
>- If the number of "filtered bundles" is clicked, the filter shows up 
> in the AdvancedSearch panel, for easy testing. 
>  
>  - filtered bundle settings are compatible with the "AdvancedSearch: 
> Filter tab". So they will show up there too. 
>
>  - There is an "Enable Import Bundle" option, that creates an 
> import.bundle log-type tiddler. If new tiddlers are imported they will be 
> appended to the import.bundle for later use. 
>
>  - If an imported tiddler exist, they will be renamed. So importing the 
> same tiddler, won't overwrite existing content. ... ( I know: There's a lot 
> of improvement possibilities here :)
>
> That's all for the moment. *Play with it and give feedback!*  
>
> have fun!
> mario
>
> PS: The plugin provided [1] invalidates all the bundles from the other 
> thread [2]. I'll remove them, if possible. ...
>
> [1] https://wikilabs.github.io/#bundles:bundles%20GettingStarted
> [2] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/WzwNpnxycDQ
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

Thanks for all of this. Both on "Destroyer" and on "in bundle comments". 

Great stuff!
Best wishes
Josiah
 

> @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> ... https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/remove-states/ ... because its 
>> offers both BULK & individual ... deleting ... could be scaled of the 
>> Bundler approach?
>>
>
> PMario replied ...
> I think, I can add a DESTROYER function, and reuse the core "Are you sure" 
> dialog. ..
>

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:The Bundler works really well. My only issue is I 
>>> really would like to be able to document what's in a bundle without it 
>>> throwing off the count ...
>>>
>>  

> I also consider to implement a possibility to "comment" in bunder config 
> tiddlers. .. TW can handle the .multids tiddler format 
> "application/x-tiddlers", which already knows, how to deal with comments. 
> ... BUT I'm not sure atm, how I want to implement it. .. I'd like to 
> improve the "enlist" operator 
> , so the bundler 
> plugin can stay simple. We'll have to see, what Jeremy says. 
>
> In the mean time I could implement a temporary operator for testing. 
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Thomas & PMario

Thomas Elmiger wrote:... my attempt to document bundles: 
> 1) I create a comments tiddler per bundle using a naming convention, e.g.: 
> bundlename.bundle.info
> 2) I implemented a view template that integrates additional info in bundle 
> tiddlers: 
> https://tid.li/tw5/plugins.html#%24%3A%2F_telmiger%2Ftemplates%2Fbundles
>
 
*THE UPSIDE...*

Thomas, I been playing a bit with it. I can see how it could be handy for 
some use cases having a wrapper with the export button to hand. For 
instance ...

   - When an Application author has a "package" that consists of several 
   plugins and maybe other components too. Your ToDoNow app is a great example 
   of that has quite a number of pieces. Its neater to have them all in ONE 
   bundle. So the "wrapper" is a note on the contents and a link that makes it 
   easier to install.
   - For stuff in bulk all of the same type. For instance, for a library of 
   SVG Tiddlers where you may want a note saying "25 SVGs derived from 
   FontAwesome ... Note on licence".

*LIMITS*


   - I don't think it would help much if you have complex mix of contents 
   in the Bundle because the notes you would end up putting in the wrapper 
   would end up duplicating what would be better done directly in the Bundle 
   (an issue PMario is thinking on how to do without throwing the "count 
   off"). Here's an example from my own use of a Bundle  I maintain for TW 
   that post to Twitter that illustrates that point ...

bundle.twitter

[[--- Prepare a new Tweet ---]]
$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tweet
$:/core/images/twitter-plus
$:/config/NewTweet/Title
$:/config/NewTweet/Text
$:/config/NewTweet/Tags
$:/language/Buttons/NewTweet/Hint
$:/language/Buttons/NewTweet/Caption

[[--- Riz's macros for Tweeting whole Tiddlers ---]]
[[--- SIMPLYFY, THEN ADD ---]]

[[--- Telmiger's macros for Tweeting sections of Tiddlers ---]]
[[ADD IT]]

[[--- Telmiger's editor plugin for character counts ---]]
$:/plugins/telmiger/EditorCounter

[[--- TiddlyWiki official timelines plugin for Twitter ---]]
$:/plugins/tiddlywiki/twitter

[[--- Button layouts for Twitter posting ---]]
$:/tags/PageControls
$:/tags/ViewToolbar
$:/tags/EditToolbar

Tchüss
Josiah

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

Mat wrote:
>>
>> 1) I miss a brief introductory paragraph about what it achieves. (I 
>> personally think I know... kind of but not sure... but many others don't at 
>> all, of course.)
>>
>  
PMario replied: 

> You are right. There's plenty of room to improve the docs. 
>

If you think it would be useful I can think more about writing brief notes 
on USE CASES that The Bundler addresses? Let me know. I'd write that on 
Github rather than here? To give you idea here are some of major ones ...

- Assist in the distribution of Applications

- Logging & backing up Customisations you have made

- Assist when doing non-trivial Upgrades

- Create packages of your favourite tools for easy transfer between TWs

- Import Bundle. Tracks what you added sequentially. Good for backtracking, 
debugging & Tiddler management

- Filtered version provides a click-ready mechanism for regular backups and 
distribution of bulk content.

Best wishes
Josiah

 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 3:07:29 AM UTC+2, TonyM wrote:
>
> I think my question may have led you down a more complex path than I 
> intended.
>

If my idea works, the solution should be straight forward. ... We'll see.

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[TonyM]

Mario,

I think my question may have led you down a more complex path than I 
intended. Your developer mind took a hold. I am thinking more of a practice 
and procedural solution. For example using the tag used to select tiddlers 
for inclusion to indicate the tiddlywiki that owns the tiddlers. Since I 
have some ideas of my own I will learn about your solution more deeply and 
return with what I find. Then perhaps if there are any outstanding 
questions I will be in a better position to ask questions. Or I will simply 
share what I discover.

Thanks
Tony

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 10:17:32 PM UTC+10, PMario wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 3:15:17 AM UTC+2, TonyM wrote:
>
>> I have some rudimentary tagging and fields to indicate which tiddlywiki 
>> owns which tiddler and which tiddlywikis include the tiddlers owned my 
>> another wiki?
>>
>
> That's the tricky part. 
> It makes it a many-to-many relationship in "database speak", which isn't 
> easy to resolve, without at least one more "lookup table"
>  
>
>> My Question to you Mario with a deeper knowledge of your bundling plugin 
>> how would you flag and manage within a bundle the concept of a source or 
>> owner tiddlywiki for a bundle, its tiddlers and the widdlywiki's that use 
>> the shared tiddlers from various bundles?
>>
>
> IMO a bundle config tiddler is similar to a recipe, how to build the 
> bundle.json file. ... 
> So what we probably need here is a recipe of recipes for exporting from 
> NAS-master.html to several NASTiddlers-for-targetX.json
>
> From within the browser, this won't be possible without new javscript. But 
> this would move the plugin away from it's generic nature. So I'm reluctant 
> with this approach. ... similar to the commenting prefix that Josiah 
> requested. 
>
>  ... But may be it can be accomplished from the TW command line build 
> system. ... BUT I'm not really sure here. ... more testing would be needed. 
>  
>
>> Thanks in advance Mario
>> And thanks for all you contributions which are valued
>>
>
> You are welcome. 
>
> have fun!
> mario
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 9:12:04 PM UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>
> 1) I miss a brief introductory paragraph about what it achieves. (I 
> personally think I know... kind of but not sure... but many others don't at 
> all, of course.)
>

You are right. There's plenty of room to improve the docs. 
 

> 1b) ...or maybe I'm missing something: GettingStarted 
>  says 
> "Documentation 
> and more can be found at: https://wikilabs.github.io/#bundler; - but I 
> don't find documentation there.
>

bug. wrong link
 

> 2) I vaguely recall discussion about whether bundling could also serve as 
> "handles" for drag'n drop between TWs, rather than export to local. 
>

Not really. The drag mechanism doesn't know anything about bundles. So 
if you drag a bundle tiddler link, it would just use it as a standard 
single tiddler.
 

> How does Bundler behave in this regard? 
>

It doesn't change the core d mechanism. 
 

> 3) Is there a particular reason why the bundles list is in static format, 
> rather than with tiddler links?
>

readability. If you remove the tiddler type-field you'll see what happens. 

There are 2 possibilities. 

 - a list of tiddlers ... space separated or new-line separated. 
   I used new-line, because it improves readability with type: text/plain

 - Advanced search - filter format. 
   I did implement it that way, to be compatible with the core. 
   see: existing tiddlers tagged: $:/tags/Filter at tiddlywiki.com
 

> Thank you for your wonderful contributions, Mario!
>
 
you are welcome!

have fun!
mario

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[Mat]

@pmario

A few thoughts;

1) I miss a brief introductory paragraph about what it achieves. (I 
personally think I know... kind of but not sure... but many others don't at 
all, of course.)
1b) ...or maybe I'm missing something: GettingStarted 
 says 
"Documentation 
and more can be found at: https://wikilabs.github.io/#bundler; - but I 
don't find documentation there.
2) I vaguely recall discussion about whether bundling could also serve as 
"handles" for drag'n drop between TWs, rather than export to local. How 
does Bundler behave in this regard? 
3) Is there a particular reason why the bundles list is in static format, 
rather than with tiddler links?

Thank you for your wonderful contributions, Mario!

<:-)

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 3:15:17 AM UTC+2, TonyM wrote:

> I have some rudimentary tagging and fields to indicate which tiddlywiki 
> owns which tiddler and which tiddlywikis include the tiddlers owned my 
> another wiki?
>

That's the tricky part. 
It makes it a many-to-many relationship in "database speak", which isn't 
easy to resolve, without at least one more "lookup table"
 

> My Question to you Mario with a deeper knowledge of your bundling plugin 
> how would you flag and manage within a bundle the concept of a source or 
> owner tiddlywiki for a bundle, its tiddlers and the widdlywiki's that use 
> the shared tiddlers from various bundles?
>

IMO a bundle config tiddler is similar to a recipe, how to build the 
bundle.json file. ... 
So what we probably need here is a recipe of recipes for exporting from 
NAS-master.html to several NASTiddlers-for-targetX.json

>From within the browser, this won't be possible without new javscript. But 
this would move the plugin away from it's generic nature. So I'm reluctant 
with this approach. ... similar to the commenting prefix that Josiah 
requested. 

 ... But may be it can be accomplished from the TW command line build 
system. ... BUT I'm not really sure here. ... more testing would be needed. 
 

> Thanks in advance Mario
> And thanks for all you contributions which are valued
>

You are welcome. 

have fun!
mario

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[TonyM]

Mario,

Thanks very much for your work. Tiddler bundling seems to me to be very 
useful. Prior to seeing your bundling solution I found the need to do 
something similar using a manual export to JSON files. I was wondering if 
you could tell me how you would do something I would like to do using the 
bundling tool?

I have multiple tiddlywikis including files and Node.JS, I have tiddlers 
that contain content I want across multiple tiddlywikis, for example I have 
a tiddler that documents my local Network devices etc... and other tiddlers 
with similar functions. I have these tiddlers hosted on my Synology NAS, 
but I also want it on my Mobile phone should the NAS or Network be 
unavailable. I have nominated the NAS server as the owner of this and 
related tiddlers so If I wish to update them I force myself to use the NAS 
version, update them then export them to a JSON file called "NASTiddlers", 
and import them to other tiddlywikis that require them. I have some 
rudimentary tagging and fields to indicate which tiddlywiki owns which 
tiddler and which tiddlywikis include the tiddlers owned my another wiki?

My Question to you Mario with a deeper knowledge of your bundling plugin 
how would you flag and manage within a bundle the concept of a source or 
owner tiddlywiki for a bundle, its tiddlers and the widdlywiki's that use 
the shared tiddlers from various bundles?

Thanks in advance Mario
And thanks for all you contributions which are valued

Tony




On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 11:19:07 PM UTC+10, PMario wrote:
>
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 11:26:40 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>> I think the beauty of it is it eases export and import a lot in a minimal 
>> way. If somehow the same "Bundle List" could be passed to selectable delete 
>> it would make it a top-notch management tool IMO. 
>>
>> The fact is import/export is a major gateway into and out-of a TW. It 
>> seems to me that explicit tracking of events around that are amongst the 
>> most important to be able to manage. The Bundler is the good step towards 
>> that.
>>  
>>
> A Destroyer could put icing on the cake. 
>>
>
> I like that name :) ... I would need to have a closer look. I want to user 
> functions, that are "out of the box" as much as possible. 
> So we'll see. ... I did create an issue at github 
> . 
>
> But first I need to finish the "datarchiveadaptor" .. what ever that is ;)
>
> have fun!
> mario
>
>
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Mario and Josiah,

Great stuff! Here’s my attempt to document bundles: 

1) I create a comments tiddler per bundle using a naming convention, e.g.: 
bundlename.bundle.info
2) I implemented a view template that integrates additional info in bundle 
tiddlers: 
https://tid.li/tw5/plugins.html#%24%3A%2F_telmiger%2Ftemplates%2Fbundles
– export button
– .info tiddler

(I use my rpn plugin to concatenate tiddler title and .info suffix. – I am 
sure there are other ways.)

Feedback welcome.

Thank you for this great tool!
Thomas

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:01:07 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> The Bundler works really well. My only issue is I really would like to be 
> able to document what's in a bundle without it throwing off the count ...
>
> I'm wondering if there is another way to deal with this if it can't be 
> done directly in the Bundle? 
>

Hi
If you create a feature request at: 
https://github.com/wikilabs/plugins/issues it won't be forgotten. 

I can see the desire and would have implemented it already, if it would be 
simple. May be it is, just I don't know :)

I'll need to play a bit with some fancy regexp filters. But I'm not sure. 

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 11:26:40 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> I think the beauty of it is it eases export and import a lot in a minimal 
> way. If somehow the same "Bundle List" could be passed to selectable delete 
> it would make it a top-notch management tool IMO. 
>
> The fact is import/export is a major gateway into and out-of a TW. It 
> seems to me that explicit tracking of events around that are amongst the 
> most important to be able to manage. The Bundler is the good step towards 
> that.
>  
>
A Destroyer could put icing on the cake. 
>

I like that name :) ... I would need to have a closer look. I want to user 
functions, that are "out of the box" as much as possible. 
So we'll see. ... I did create an issue at github 
. 

But first I need to finish the "datarchiveadaptor" .. what ever that is ;)

have fun!
mario


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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 10:44:32 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>
> Its not an issue for plugins if taken over whole since the author deals 
> with that in the plugin anyway? 
>
> So it would be needed for *only* the small number of cases where you 
> bundle Tiddlers from a plugin, but not a plugin as a whole? 
>
> Right?
>

right.

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

The Bundler works really well. My only issue is I really would like to be 
able to document what's in a bundle without it throwing off the count ...

I'm wondering if there is another way to deal with this if it can't be done 
directly in the Bundle? 


PMario wrote:
>
>
> 2017.06.18
> new version V 0.1.1 beta - https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/
>

Best wishes
Josiah 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S. & PMario

The Bundler mechanism, from my point of view, *especially when you have an 
exact list*, rather than a filter, looks to me like it could be re-factored 
to provide bulk delete selection.

I think the beauty of it is it eases export and import a lot in a minimal 
way. If somehow the same "Bundle List" could be passed to selectable delete 
it would make it a top-notch management tool IMO. 

The fact is import/export is a major gateway into and out-of a TW. It seems 
to me that explicit tracking of events around that are amongst the most 
important to be able to manage. The Bundler is the good step towards that. 
A Destroyer could put icing on the cake. 

FWIW, the tracking of imports I found particularly useful in knowing what 
to delete (accurately) later.

Best wishes
Josiah

Mark S. wrote:
>
> It's seems like there needs to be the opposite ability as well -- take a 
> bundle list and delete those tiddlers from the current TW. This would allow 
> you to archive in 2 steps: Export & Delete.
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

PMario wrote:
>>
>> *So you basically should include the license tiddler*:  
>> https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2Fwikilabs%2Fbundler%2Flicense
>>  
>> *too*. It contains the copyright notice. and a link to the original 
>> license.  but no link to the original plugin (.. that's my fault. I 
>> should fix this :)
>>
>
> 2017.06.18
> new version V 0.1.1 beta - https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/
>
> modified license file 
> ,
>  
> to be sufficient for full attribution and licensing of the bundler plugin 
> namespace. So every component of the bundler itself can be bundled, without 
> any problem, if the license is part of the bundle. (This is kind of 
> experimental, but imo a simple way to deal with "namespaced" bundles. ..)
>
 

> If this works out well this could be a "generic" way to include different 
> licenses from different users into one bundle, without creating issues. 
>
 

> This may be cumbersome, if you use many different plugins from different 
> users. 
>

Its not an issue for plugins if taken over whole since the author deals 
with that in the plugin anyway? 

So it would be needed for *only* the small number of cases where you bundle 
Tiddlers from a plugin, but not a plugin as a whole? 

Right?
 

> So we probably could simplify it like this...
>
> $:/plugin/ generic link to the authors main page legal statements. Similar to the 
> TiddlyTools 
> Legal statement  tiddler. 
>  using the idea, not the content ;)
>

Best wishes
Josiah 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 10:38:14 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> The lowest, and most basic, "Copyrightable Unit" is the Tiddler. It is 
> not plugins or other assemblages (like bundles). They can, of course, 
> collectively define their contents under Copyright, but the basic unit 
> seems to me to be individual Tiddlers.
>

yes.
 

> Take the case of svg's or single macros or widgets. 
>

This are kind of 2 different things. ... For SVGs there is an established 
mechanism. I'll respond in the other thread. macros and widgets are 
tiddlers. 
 

> Would it not be better if a default Copyright Field were available for 
> every Tiddler? And that when that field was created it would 
> automatically be shown in that Tiddler's "footer" region?
>

Theoretically speaking: yes.

Practically speaking: *no*   ... This would be a "management" nightmare and 
probably unnecessary bloat and noise. ... So users may be driven away. 

I'll respond in more detail in the other thread. 

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

On broader discussion on Copyright in TW I would like to contribute this 
thought ... maybe its been said before?

The lowest, and most basic, "Copyrightable Unit" is the Tiddler. It is not 
plugins or other assemblages (like bundles). They can, of course, 
collectively define their contents under Copyright, but the basic unit 
seems to me to be individual Tiddlers.

Take the case of svg's or single macros or widgets. Would it not be better 
if a default Copyright Field were available for every Tiddler? And that when 
that field was created it would automatically be shown in that Tiddler's 
"footer" region?

Best wishes
Josiah

PMario wrote:
>
> That's interesting. This points out, that we should create a "best 
> practice" info about plugin configuration 
>  / licensing, soon. 
>   
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

I'm playing with it now & will reply later. I started a separate, but 
related, thread here: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/YKlLXWovXvQ

Best wishes
Josiah

PMario wrote:
>
>
> @TiddlyTweeter  As a user, is this a way, that you can live with, 
> without too much trouble?
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 1:01:51 PM UTC+2, PMario wrote:
>
> *So you basically should include the license tiddler*:  
> https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2Fwikilabs%2Fbundler%2Flicense
>  
> *too*. It contains the copyright notice. and a link to the original 
> license.  but no link to the original plugin (.. that's my fault. I 
> should fix this :)
>

I did just publish a new version. It also fixes the "// asdf" problem, that 
mark mentioned :)

2017.06.18
new version V 0.1.1 beta - https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/

modified license file 
,
 
to be sufficient for full attribution and licensing of the bundler plugin 
namespace. So every component of the bundler itself can be bundled, without 
any problem, if the license is part of the bundle. (This is kind of 
experimental, but imo a simple way to deal with "namespaced" bundles. ..)

@TiddlyTweeter  As a user, is this a way, that you can live with, 
without too much trouble?

If this works out well this could be a "generic" way to include different 
licenses from different users into one bundle, without creating issues. 

eg: we already have a naming convention for system tiddlers. 
$:/plugin/http://tiddlytools.github.io/#LegalStatements> tiddler. 
 using the idea, not the content ;)

-m



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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

Hmmm, 

That's interesting. This points out, that we should create a "best 
practice" info about plugin configuration 
 / licensing, soon.   


On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 10:29:01 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> I noticed that you can bundle components of plugins (??is that a 
> copyright issue??).
>
> For instance I'm bundling from PMario's Bundler Plugin these two Tiddlers 
> ...
>  
>
> $:/plugins/wikilabs/bundler/doc/table-all-filters
> $:/plugins/wikilabs/bundler/ui/Buttons/test-filter
>
> ... to include in all wikis, devoid of the Bundler Plugin, because they 
> are so useful & don't need the rest of the plugin to run.
>

I think it's more a management problem, than a licensing issue. The plugin 
uses a BSD-3-clause 

 
license. So every tiddler shipped with the plugin is part of that 
agreement. If you follow the link the BSD license 
 says: 


Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without 
> modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
>

So you can do pretty much everything that you want. Since redistribution 
"with or without modification" is allowed. So using and redistributing just 
2 tiddlers is allowed. ... *if you meet the following conditions... all of 
them!*: 
 

> 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, 
> this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
>

*So you basically should include the license tiddler*:  
https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2Fwikilabs%2Fbundler%2Flicense
 
*too*. It contains the copyright notice. and a link to the original 
license.  but no link to the original plugin (.. that's my fault. I 
should fix this :)

I personally don't include the license text itself, since it sometimes is 
bigger then the plugin source code. So I consider it bloat, if several 
plugins with the same license are used. They would contain it several 
times. ... but I like the copyright section, that points out who designed 
the plugin / content. ... 
 

> 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright 
> notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the 
> documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
>

With TW this is the same as 1) since javascript is "source and binary form" 
at the same time. 
 

> 3. Neither the name of the copyright holder nor the names of its 
> contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this 
> software without specific prior written permission.
>

Section 3) is there, to protect the copyright holder from using his/her 
name in an abusive way. 


The following paragraph is the "disclaimer" mentioned above in section 1). 
... It basically says, that the user is responsible, if s/he breaks 
something using the plugin. ... 
 

> THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS "AS 
> IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR 
> PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER OR 
> CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; 
> OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, 
> WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR 
> OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF 
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.
>

--

Some personal thoughts. 

I do use the BSD-3-clause license for plugin and content, where I want it 
to be compatible with the TW-license 
, since it is 
the same. So it will be very easy to implement stuff from my plugins to the 
core without any licensing incompatibilities. 


For other stuff I use the Creative-Commons licenses in all their flavors. 
(because I like them)

They can be "very restrictive" as: CC-BY-NC-SA 
 and go to very open 
like: CC-BY  ... So this 
license-family works very well, if you want to start very restrictive and 
loosen the license (if you want), when the project evolves. 

They are all compatible. So switching from restrictive to open step by step 
doesn't cause any licensing incompatibilities. ( Remark: Going from open to 
restrictive doesn't work, since everyone can use the open stuff, as soon as 
it is published.) 

The most important thing, about licensing, for me is: *You can always ask 
the author to change the license, if you have good arguments.* 

[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

It's kind of convenient to rebundle the tiddlers of the bundler plugin into 
it's own bundle. That way you can add bundling to a TW without having to 
save and reload.

It's seems like there needs to be the opposite ability as well -- take a 
bundle list and delete those tiddlers from the current TW. This would allow 
you to archive in 2 steps: Export & Delete.

Thanks!
Mark

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Tutti

I think once you start Bundling a lot of things get easier and you start to 
experiment.

I noticed that you can bundle components of plugins (??is that a copyright 
issue??).

For instance I'm bundling from PMario's Bundler Plugin these two Tiddlers 
...
 

$:/plugins/wikilabs/bundler/doc/table-all-filters
$:/plugins/wikilabs/bundler/ui/Buttons/test-filter

... to include in all wikis, devoid of the Bundler, because they are so 
useful & don't need the rest of the plugin to run.

Best wishes
Josiah


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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

PMario wrote:new version available: V 0.1.0 - 
> https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/
>

Small point. Would it not be better if the default naming was "bundle.new" 
NOT "new.bundle". It just looks better when searching or looking at the 
Tiddler hierarchy ... e.g. 



and ... 


Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

On Tuesday, 13 June 2017 23:56:17 UTC+2, PMario wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 6:02:36 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> *STRAIGHT TO JSON?*At the moment when you click the download icon on a 
>> bundle you get these options ...
>>
>>
>>
>> Instead, could it not, by DEFAULT, skip that menu and go directly to a 
>> JSON download?
>>
>
> I did a test, and the first 3 are valid options. ".tid" should be removed, 
> since it doesn't do the expected thing 
>
> -m
>
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario & Mark S.

On the import.bundle having duplications. That is fine for me. 

FYI, the simple logging method (latest, last) has already helped me to 
identify a faulty imported macro I needed to undo in a TW. In the past I 
would have had to spend more time figuring it out. Since the log is simply 
an APPEND to plain text you can manually edit the list with comments if you 
want to (though it will change the count). IMO, its very useful when you 
are developing a TW.

Josiah

Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Enable Import Bundle doesn't check for duplicates in the bundle. (I know, 
>> it probably doesn't matter)
>>
>
 PMario wrote: 

> It's like a "log" function. If something is imported twice, it's recorded 
> twice. 
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 7:39:31 AM UTC+2, PMario wrote:
>
>
> The "enlist"  operator makes no difference between line-break and 
> white-space. So "// asdf" is counted as 2 tiddlers. 
>

Technically you can write a list of bundle tiddlers in one row. ... It's 
much harder to handle for humans, that's why I used a line break.

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 1:48:51 AM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> *Comment*: 
> Enable Import Bundle doesn't check for duplicates in the bundle. (I know, 
> it probably doesn't matter)
>

It's like a "log" function. If something is imported twice, it's recorded 
twice. 
 

> *Comment*:
> If Enable Import Bundle is on AND Enable Overwrite Check is on AND you 
> change the checkboxes to let the overwrite happen, the overwritten items 
> are not added to the import.bundle tiddler.
>

I'll have to check this. ... but I assume we have ti "fix" the core import 
function here.
 

>
> *Question*: How are the numbers next to the bundlers listed supposed to 
> work? For instance, the example.bundle has:
>
>
> HelloThere
> // asdf
> GettingStarted
>
> The count is listed as 2/4 (I added in 'HelloThere'). I assume that that 
> means 2 of 4 items are ready to export. What is it counting as the 4th item?
>
>
uups, thats my fault. The "// asdf" was a test, that I forgot to remove. So 
I published it by accident. 

The "enlist"  operator makes no difference between line-break and 
white-space. So "// asdf" is counted as 2 tiddlers. 

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Hello Pmario,

*Comment*: 
Enable Import Bundle doesn't check for duplicates in the bundle. (I know, 
it probably doesn't matter)

*Comment*:
If Enable Import Bundle is on AND Enable Overwrite Check is on AND you 
change the checkboxes to let the overwrite happen, the overwritten items 
are not added to the import.bundle tiddler.

*Question*: How are the numbers next to the bundlers listed supposed to 
work? For instance, the example.bundle has:


HelloThere
// asdf
GettingStarted

The count is listed as 2/4 (I added in 'HelloThere'). I assume that that means 
2 of 4 items are ready to export. What is it counting as the 4th item?

Thanks!
Mark


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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 6:02:36 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>
>
> *STRAIGHT TO JSON?*At the moment when you click the download icon on a 
> bundle you get these options ...
>
>
>
> Instead, could it not, by DEFAULT, skip that menu and go directly to a 
> JSON download?
>

I did a test, and the first 3 are valid options. ".tid" should be removed, 
since it doesn't do the expected thing 

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

PMario wrote:
> new version available: V 0.1.0 - 
> https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/
>



*STRAIGHT TO JSON?*At the moment when you click the download icon on a 
bundle you get these options ...



Instead, could it not, by DEFAULT, skip that menu and go directly to a JSON 
download?

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

This suggestion *pertains only to the simple list of tiddlers* Bundles. For 
>> me that is the only place I'd need it. It would allow rudimentary 
>> description of contents. At the moment a comment line would be ignored in 
>> an export, but still be counted.
>>
>
> Yea, It seems it won't do crazy things, but it counts every word separated 
> by spaces. ... 


IF the lines were like this would it be easier? ...

In this case there a three lines starting "[[---..

I can live with it if the Maths don't add up, but receivers may get 
confused (if the Tiddler bundle is included) that the total should be only 
10, not 13. 

What I hoped was that "documentation lines" could be discounted in the 
displayed total for these kinds of bundles. But I understand its quite a 
complex technical issue to solve. 

Maybe documenting a bundle could be done another way?

Best wishes
Josiah


 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 11:38:13 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao PMario
>
>   PM: - Bundle function as a list of tiddlers. One tiddler per line
>
>
>
> *IGNORE COMMENT PREFIXED LINES FROM COUNT*
>

That's not easy to implement, with the current mechanism used. 
We use a filter similar to this:  [enlist{name.bundle}]  which the TW core 
can handle out of the box. I also use the existing AdvancedSearch export 
button. So no special code added yet. 

The bundler plugin is there to "protect" the new UI and the import "hooks" 
that allow us to detect what's going on and give user feedback. 
 

> This suggestion *pertains only to the simple list of tiddlers* Bundles. 
> For me that is the only place I'd need it. It would allow rudimentary 
> description of contents. At the moment a comment line would be ignored in 
> an export, but still be counted.
>

Yea, It seems it won't do crazy things, but it counts every word separated 
by spaces. ...  


Not sure if it is possible. Is it a headache?


 kind of :)
 

> Another way might be to have an information field that describes the 
> content, as I suggested before, but that is maybe overkill? Being able to 
> add comments in Bundle may well be enough?
>

I'll have a closer look about a "bundle view-template".   but the list 
will need to stay in the way it is atm. 

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 4:07:03 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao PM, I think "Bundler" makes most sense for the plugin name & glad you 
> changed to it before it got too late :-).
>

Yea, That's one reason, why feedback is so valuable ... and there is the 
advantage of beta software. ;)
 

> I had to manually delete a few things to clear out the old version. I was 
> getting two "Bundles" tabs in "More". No big deal. Sorted. J.
>

I hope, we sorted out the names now. ... 

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PM, I think "Bundler" makes most sense for the plugin name & glad you 
changed to it before it got too late :-). I had to manually delete a few 
things to clear out the old version. I was getting two "Bundles" tabs in 
"More". No big deal. Sorted. J.

PM: @TiddlyTweeter ... As suggested, I did also rename the plugin to 
> bundler! ... 
>
> The settings tiddlers needed to be renamed too, since they weren't synced 
> with the node server version. Instead of $:/state, they use $:/config now.
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 1:27:01 PM UTC+2, PMario wrote:
>
> new version available: V 0.1.0 - 
> https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/
>

@TiddlyTweeter ... As suggested, I did also rename the plugin to bundler! 
... 

The settings tiddlers needed to be renamed too, since they weren't synced 
with the node server version. Instead of $:/state, they use $:/config now.

-mario
 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[codacodercodacoder]

On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 6:02:23 AM UTC-5, PMario wrote:
>
>
>  So it shows a text: "Existing tiddler will be overwritten!" now.
>
> -m
>

Excellent approach. Thanks! 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

new version available: V 0.1.0 - 
https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 10:59:42 PM UTC+2, PMario wrote:
>
> --- reserved post ---
>

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

>
> TT: codacoder expressed too what I also later found, that not being able 
>> to overwrite is a limitation. 
>>
>
> PM: The new version will have a setting: Enable Overwrite Check, which is 
> off by default.
>
 
PMario, Excellent!

TT: overwrite is less of a worry than in more random situations
>>
>
PM: IMO that's not really true. Users are upset, if a program destroys 
> their work, without a warning. :) 
>

LOL. You are right. I'm a little over enthusiastic sometimes. 

J.
 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 11:14:32 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> codacoder expressed too what I also later found, that not being able to 
> overwrite is a limitation. 
>

The new version will have a setting: Enable Overwrite Check, which is off 
by default.
 

> If one conceives of Bundles as a superior transport mechanism, then DEFAULT 
> (individually de-selectable) overwrite seems appropriate. The issue that 
> go really clear to me is the Bundles approach gives fine-grained control on 
> "transports" and overwrite is less of a worry than in more random 
> situations.
>

IMO that's not really true. Users are upset, if a program destroys their 
work, without a warning. :) So the minimum info I want to provide is, to 
let the user know, that the bundle import will overwrite existing tiddlers. 
So it shows a text: "Existing tiddler will be overwritten!" now.

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

  PM: - Bundle function as a list of tiddlers. One tiddler per line




*IGNORE COMMENT PREFIXED LINES FROM COUNT*This suggestion *pertains only to 
the simple list of tiddlers* Bundles. For me that is the only place I'd 
need it. It would allow rudimentary desciption of contents. At the moment a 
comment line would be ignored in an export, but still be counted.

Here is an image of the kind of thing I am talking about ... 


Not sure if it is possible. Is it a headache? Another way might be to have 
an information field that describes the content, as I suggested before, but 
that is maybe overkill? Being able to add comments in Bundle may well be 
enough?

Just thoughts.

Best wishes
Josiah


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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao codacoder & PMario

I have been enthusiastically creating bundles. 

*OVERWRITE*

 PM: - If an imported tiddler exist, they will be renamed. So importing the 
 same tiddler, won't overwrite existing content. ... 

>>>
>>> CoCo:Are you planning a switch to turn that off? 
>>>
>>
>> PM: Hmmm, Now that you say it, it seems to make sense. ... Could be a 
>> first step.
>>
>
> CoCo: Great. Recall I mentioned in the other thread, I'm using Bundles to 
> create something akin to an edition - *I *want* to have imports overwrite 
> all targets.  It's basically an "upgrade"*. (TT: emphasis)
>
> CoCo: I'm assuming that will be a set of checkboxes? (295 in my case). 
>> That might be cool as long as I can have  them *default to 
>> selected=overwrite*  ...
>>
>
codacoder expressed too what I also later found, that not being able to 
overwrite is a limitation. 

If one conceives of Bundles as a superior transport mechanism, then DEFAULT 
(individually de-selectable) overwrite seems appropriate. The issue that go 
really clear to me is the Bundles approach gives fine-grained control on 
"transports" and overwrite is less of a worry than in more random 
situations.

Best wishes
Josiah


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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[codacodercodacoder]

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 7:24:13 PM UTC-5, PMario wrote:
>
> On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:05:03 PM UTC+2, codacoder...@outlook.com 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mario
>>
>>>  - If an imported tiddler exist, they will be renamed. So importing the 
>>> same tiddler, won't overwrite existing content. ... ( I know: There's a lot 
>>> of improvement possibilities here :)
>>>
>>
>> Are you planning a switch to turn that off? 
>>
>
> Hmmm, Now that you say it, it seems to make sense. ... Could be a first 
> step.
>
>
Great. Recall I mentioned in the other thread, I'm using Bundles to create 
something akin to an edition - I *want* to have imports overwrite all 
targets.  It's basically an "upgrade".

What I really want is a "diff", that tells me, what is new and then decide, 
> if I want to import it, or not.   
>

I'm assuming that will be a set of checkboxes? (295 in my case). That might 
be cool as long as I can have  them default to selected=overwrite, sure, 
that would be fine. Otherwise, I'll stick with the beta - it's working 
perfectly for me.

Thanks!


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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:05:03 PM UTC+2, codacoder...@outlook.com 
wrote:
>
> Hi Mario
>
>>  - If an imported tiddler exist, they will be renamed. So importing the 
>> same tiddler, won't overwrite existing content. ... ( I know: There's a lot 
>> of improvement possibilities here :)
>>
>
> Are you planning a switch to turn that off? 
>

Hmmm, Now that you say it, it seems to make sense. ... Could be a first 
step.

What I really want is a "diff", that tells me, what is new and then decide, 
if I want to import it, or not.   

-m

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

*NAMING*

Not sure if its too late, but I suggest you call the plugin "BUNDLER", not 
"bundles". The reason is that in English a BundleR does things, it creates 
the package, but a Bundle is simply a collection, not the "collector". If 
you leave it as "Bundles" talking about it may get confusing between the 
mechanism and the content.

However, I don't think its a big deal.

Best wishes
Josiah 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Tutti

I want to emphasise how good PMario's "BUNDLES" plugin already is ... Its 
eases management enormously ... 

For instance, the first two items on the screenshot (a bundle that includes 
several plugins) are "arbeit.bundle" and "$:/plugins/wikilabs/bundles". The 
former is itself the list of "bundle" items. The second is the Bundler 
itself. So, with virtually no effort you can transport to a new TW what you 
used in another one with complete precision and have the Bundler running in 
it immediately if you want it. Its ability to ease the transfer of things 
and yet have exact control is incredibly useful.

Best wishes
Josiah 

 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[codacodercodacoder]

Hi Mario


>  - If an imported tiddler exist, they will be renamed. So importing the 
> same tiddler, won't overwrite existing content. ... ( I know: There's a lot 
> of improvement possibilities here :)
>
>
Are you planning a switch to turn that off? 

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[tw] Re: [INTRO] Tiddler Bundle Plugin

[PMario]

--- reserved post ---

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