[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-12 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Mark

Could you start a new thread? This one has started paginating.

Best wishes
TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-12 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

Looking & working good! I'm actively using it.

I'll create another case example over the next few days.

Best wishes
TT

On Saturday, 11 July 2020 06:23:19 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> v0.0.8 Adds the ability to specify your own split-by string
>
>
>
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-10 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

v0.0.8 Adds the ability to specify your own split-by string




https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-10 Thread David Gifford
Just saw this. Very nice addition to NotoWritey!

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 5:22:37 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:

>
> There is now a Publication/Read-only mode. Hopefully I didn't break 
> anything making it, because a lot of CSS got moved around. The button is 
> down in the settings. Once you're in the view mode, to get back to regular 
> mode hover over the bottom of the "document" (usually the bottom of the 
> tiddler) and it will flash a green button to press.
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-09 Thread TW Tones
Looks like you solved this 
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/tiddlywiki/hDQbb3bSC2k

Perhaps post the solution?

TW Tones

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 11:47:14 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> Thanks for the heads up. Technically, it was working fine. But you 
> probably weren't in the mood to learn Vim today ;-)
>
> I *think* I've got a new version posted that should work OK. It looks like 
> I need to add another step to my production cycle to be sure I've removed 
> the developer's tools.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 6:11:34 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Thanks for the continued development here.
>>
>> Unfortunately I seem to have lost the ability to edit the tiddlers, it 
>> edit mode does not accept key strokes, both Chrome/FireFox. It is acting 
>> like there was a stuck key, typing a letter jumps to that letter with a 
>> green cursor.
>>
>> On testing the zip functionality I realised how easy it would be to 
>> develop work instructions and other complex processes in a Noto, just 
>> import and use it. It can contain checkboxes and all that.
>>
>> All we need to facilitate this is the ability to import multiple times 
>> and use a different prefix each time.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 9:36:31 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> New in vsn 0.0.7 . 
>>>
>>> Neatened up export options. Added text export option. Added backup to 
>>> zip file option.
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-09 Thread TW Tones
Thanks now working

I was not aware the whole vim editor was or could be embedded, would not 
have though I could be in Vim.

Regards
Tony


On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 11:47:14 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> Thanks for the heads up. Technically, it was working fine. But you 
> probably weren't in the mood to learn Vim today ;-)
>
> I *think* I've got a new version posted that should work OK. It looks like 
> I need to add another step to my production cycle to be sure I've removed 
> the developer's tools.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 6:11:34 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Thanks for the continued development here.
>>
>> Unfortunately I seem to have lost the ability to edit the tiddlers, it 
>> edit mode does not accept key strokes, both Chrome/FireFox. It is acting 
>> like there was a stuck key, typing a letter jumps to that letter with a 
>> green cursor.
>>
>> On testing the zip functionality I realised how easy it would be to 
>> develop work instructions and other complex processes in a Noto, just 
>> import and use it. It can contain checkboxes and all that.
>>
>> All we need to facilitate this is the ability to import multiple times 
>> and use a different prefix each time.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 9:36:31 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> New in vsn 0.0.7 . 
>>>
>>> Neatened up export options. Added text export option. Added backup to 
>>> zip file option.
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-09 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Tony,

Thanks for the heads up. Technically, it was working fine. But you probably 
weren't in the mood to learn Vim today ;-)

I *think* I've got a new version posted that should work OK. It looks like 
I need to add another step to my production cycle to be sure I've removed 
the developer's tools.


Thanks!

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 6:11:34 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Thanks for the continued development here.
>
> Unfortunately I seem to have lost the ability to edit the tiddlers, it 
> edit mode does not accept key strokes, both Chrome/FireFox. It is acting 
> like there was a stuck key, typing a letter jumps to that letter with a 
> green cursor.
>
> On testing the zip functionality I realised how easy it would be to 
> develop work instructions and other complex processes in a Noto, just 
> import and use it. It can contain checkboxes and all that.
>
> All we need to facilitate this is the ability to import multiple times and 
> use a different prefix each time.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
> On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 9:36:31 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>> New in vsn 0.0.7 . 
>>
>> Neatened up export options. Added text export option. Added backup to zip 
>> file option.
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-09 Thread TW Tones
Mark,

Thanks for the continued development here.

Unfortunately I seem to have lost the ability to edit the tiddlers, it edit 
mode does not accept key strokes, both Chrome/FireFox. It is acting like 
there was a stuck key, typing a letter jumps to that letter with a green 
cursor.

On testing the zip functionality I realised how easy it would be to develop 
work instructions and other complex processes in a Noto, just import and 
use it. It can contain checkboxes and all that.

All we need to facilitate this is the ability to import multiple times and 
use a different prefix each time.

Regards
Tony


On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 9:36:31 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> New in vsn 0.0.7 . 
>
> Neatened up export options. Added text export option. Added backup to zip 
> file option.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-09 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

New in vsn 0.0.7 . 

Neatened up export options. Added text export option. Added backup to zip 
file option.

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-07 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

Okay. Now I'm wondering about presentation in Edit Mode but just for 
*"documents" 
not "outlines"*, i.e. the outliner buttons hidden but otherwise works as 
normal.

Possible, or do or we still need the 2 Noto variants?

Best wishes
TT

Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> There is now a Publication/Read-only mode. Hopefully I didn't break 
> anything making it, because a lot of CSS got moved around. The button is 
> down in the settings. Once you're in the view mode, to get back to regular 
> mode hover over the bottom of the "document" (usually the bottom of the 
> tiddler) and it will flash a green button to press.
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-07 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

*Request. *Could you add the "plain text" render option to Noto? I would 
then have access to all three Capture Modes in Noto.

I am finding it invaluable in document making.

Best wishes
TT

Mark S. wrote:
>
> I like dropping in a macro and ... away you go. I don't want things to 
> become too complicated.
>
> Unfortunately, the toolbar doesn't know about the *contents* of it's 
> tiddler. That is, it doesn't know anything about the macro it contains. 
> And, of course, someone could, in a spate of cruelty, put two macros in.
>
> However, I can imagine a way to communicate between the document and the 
> toolbar. There could be a "Register" button that registers the document 
> originating tiddler and the tag name somewhere. After that a toolbar icon 
> would appear as needed. The toolbar would then know where to look for all 
> the info it needs. But I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. Especially 
> with a user-base of 4 ;-)
>
> There was the "export to clipboard" project from a week ago (
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/playground.html) which kind of does the 
> same thing. Note that the export tool can not collect the wikitext because 
> there is no tool in the TiddlyWiki set that renders *back* to wikitext. 
> The only way to acquire that is via the noto macro machinery which can look 
> at each individual wiki in the set and assembly the complete document.
>
> Thanks!
>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-07 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Great stuff! It's really shaping up.

Much appreciated by users I'm sure!

TT


Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> There is now a Publication/Read-only mode. Hopefully I didn't break 
> anything making it, because a lot of CSS got moved around. The button is 
> down in the settings. Once you're in the view mode, to get back to regular 
> mode hover over the bottom of the "document" (usually the bottom of the 
> tiddler) and it will flash a green button to press.
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-06 Thread TW Tones
Mark,

See here, I have re-released the beta for my local-viewtemplate field. Just 
create the field on any install and type `<>`

Regards
Tony

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 at 10:45:35 AM UTC+10, TW Tones wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> You have persuaded me to make a button. I personally do not like putting 
> macros in the text field to define what the wiki does. I prefer to use the 
> text field for content.
>
> I already created a view template field in tiddlers who's content is then 
> transcluded in the view template, in this case I just enter `<>`.
> Attached - just drop it on a wiki, then add the field local-viewtemplate 
> containing <>
>
> Thus the logic is in the view template and I can use the view toolbar to 
> toggle anything. For example you can test for 
> `local-viewtemplate` 
> where noto string is `<>` thus any toggle button can appear only when 
> this is true on the currentTiddler.
>
> Cheeky, "User based of 4" if this were true its only because its new.
>
> Love your work
>
> Regards
> TW Tones aka TonyM
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 at 10:18:35 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I like dropping in a macro and ... away you go. I don't want things to 
>> become too complicated.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the toolbar doesn't know about the *contents* of it's 
>> tiddler. That is, it doesn't know anything about the macro it contains. 
>> And, of course, someone could, in a spate of cruelty, put two macros in.
>>
>> However, I can imagine a way to communicate between the document and the 
>> toolbar. There could be a "Register" button that registers the document 
>> originating tiddler and the tag name somewhere. After that a toolbar icon 
>> would appear as needed. The toolbar would then know where to look for all 
>> the info it needs. But I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. Especially 
>> with a user-base of 4 ;-)
>>
>> There was the "export to clipboard" project from a week ago (
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/playground.html) which kind of does 
>> the same thing. Note that the export tool can not collect the wikitext 
>> because there is no tool in the TiddlyWiki set that renders *back* to 
>> wikitext. The only way to acquire that is via the noto macro machinery 
>> which can look at each individual wiki in the set and assembly the complete 
>> document.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 3:52:38 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> Beautiful. The read mode caps the whole project off, from brainstorm to 
>>> publishing thanks.
>>>
>>> You seem reluctant to use a viewToolbar button, shall I create one that 
>>> becomes visible when in publish mode?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 at 8:22:37 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:


 There is now a Publication/Read-only mode. Hopefully I didn't break 
 anything making it, because a lot of CSS got moved around. The button is 
 down in the settings. Once you're in the view mode, to get back to regular 
 mode hover over the bottom of the "document" (usually the bottom of the 
 tiddler) and it will flash a green button to press.

 https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

>>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-06 Thread Birthe C
Mark S,

Wow, That is an elegant solution. 
I think you can be sure, that NotoWritey will get many users, when more 
people find out how handy it is. 

My friend visited and saw me using Noto. He would like something like that 
too, and for once he did not scare off when I had to remind him, that he 
would need to start using Tiddlywiki then. That would be something.

Birthe


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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-06 Thread TW Tones
Mark,

You have persuaded me to make a button. I personally do not like putting 
macros in the text field to define what the wiki does. I prefer to use the 
text field for content.

I already created a view template field in tiddlers who's content is then 
transcluded in the view template, in this case I just enter `<>`.
Attached - just drop it on a wiki, then add the field local-viewtemplate 
containing <>

Thus the logic is in the view template and I can use the view toolbar to 
toggle anything. For example you can test for `local-viewtemplate` 
where noto string is `<>` thus any toggle button can appear only when 
this is true on the currentTiddler.

Cheeky, "User based of 4" if this were true its only because its new.

Love your work

Regards
TW Tones aka TonyM


On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 at 10:18:35 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I like dropping in a macro and ... away you go. I don't want things to 
> become too complicated.
>
> Unfortunately, the toolbar doesn't know about the *contents* of it's 
> tiddler. That is, it doesn't know anything about the macro it contains. 
> And, of course, someone could, in a spate of cruelty, put two macros in.
>
> However, I can imagine a way to communicate between the document and the 
> toolbar. There could be a "Register" button that registers the document 
> originating tiddler and the tag name somewhere. After that a toolbar icon 
> would appear as needed. The toolbar would then know where to look for all 
> the info it needs. But I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. Especially 
> with a user-base of 4 ;-)
>
> There was the "export to clipboard" project from a week ago (
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/playground.html) which kind of does the 
> same thing. Note that the export tool can not collect the wikitext because 
> there is no tool in the TiddlyWiki set that renders *back* to wikitext. 
> The only way to acquire that is via the noto macro machinery which can look 
> at each individual wiki in the set and assembly the complete document.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 3:52:38 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Beautiful. The read mode caps the whole project off, from brainstorm to 
>> publishing thanks.
>>
>> You seem reluctant to use a viewToolbar button, shall I create one that 
>> becomes visible when in publish mode?
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 at 8:22:37 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> There is now a Publication/Read-only mode. Hopefully I didn't break 
>>> anything making it, because a lot of CSS got moved around. The button is 
>>> down in the settings. Once you're in the view mode, to get back to regular 
>>> mode hover over the bottom of the "document" (usually the bottom of the 
>>> tiddler) and it will flash a green button to press.
>>>
>>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>>>
>>

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local-viewtemplate.json
Description: application/json


[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-06 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
I like dropping in a macro and ... away you go. I don't want things to 
become too complicated.

Unfortunately, the toolbar doesn't know about the *contents* of it's 
tiddler. That is, it doesn't know anything about the macro it contains. 
And, of course, someone could, in a spate of cruelty, put two macros in.

However, I can imagine a way to communicate between the document and the 
toolbar. There could be a "Register" button that registers the document 
originating tiddler and the tag name somewhere. After that a toolbar icon 
would appear as needed. The toolbar would then know where to look for all 
the info it needs. But I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. Especially 
with a user-base of 4 ;-)

There was the "export to clipboard" project from a week ago 
(https://marxsal.github.io/various/playground.html) which kind of does the 
same thing. Note that the export tool can not collect the wikitext because 
there is no tool in the TiddlyWiki set that renders *back* to wikitext. The 
only way to acquire that is via the noto macro machinery which can look at 
each individual wiki in the set and assembly the complete document.

Thanks!

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 3:52:38 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Beautiful. The read mode caps the whole project off, from brainstorm to 
> publishing thanks.
>
> You seem reluctant to use a viewToolbar button, shall I create one that 
> becomes visible when in publish mode?
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 at 8:22:37 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>> There is now a Publication/Read-only mode. Hopefully I didn't break 
>> anything making it, because a lot of CSS got moved around. The button is 
>> down in the settings. Once you're in the view mode, to get back to regular 
>> mode hover over the bottom of the "document" (usually the bottom of the 
>> tiddler) and it will flash a green button to press.
>>
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-06 Thread TW Tones
Mark,

Beautiful. The read mode caps the whole project off, from brainstorm to 
publishing thanks.

You seem reluctant to use a viewToolbar button, shall I create one that 
becomes visible when in publish mode?

Regards
Tony


On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 at 8:22:37 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> There is now a Publication/Read-only mode. Hopefully I didn't break 
> anything making it, because a lot of CSS got moved around. The button is 
> down in the settings. Once you're in the view mode, to get back to regular 
> mode hover over the bottom of the "document" (usually the bottom of the 
> tiddler) and it will flash a green button to press.
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-06 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

There is now a Publication/Read-only mode. Hopefully I didn't break 
anything making it, because a lot of CSS got moved around. The button is 
down in the settings. Once you're in the view mode, to get back to regular 
mode hover over the bottom of the "document" (usually the bottom of the 
tiddler) and it will flash a green button to press.

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-06 Thread TiddlyTweeter
TW Tones wrote:
>
> I think the view/copy the wiki text version may deserve a special button, 
> one I wonder if we could make a generic one, or is it too tool specific?
>

Ciao Tones & Mark

I'd like to chip in on this. As far as I understand it there are *three* 
"capture/snap" modes ...

   1. HTML
   2. PLAIN TEXT (no Wikitext captured)
   3. WIKITEXT

All are useful to know about. All three Mark has given the code for, though 
they are not "View Bar" buttons atm. HTML & WIKITEXT are in Noto. HTML & 
PLAIN TEXT are in the modified export function. The WIKITEXT capture is 
from, I think, concatenation of Tiddler "text" fields. HTML & PLAIN TEXT 
from "render" levels? Yes?

As far as my understanding goes "capture" is of a named Tiddler. IF that 
Tiddler also transcludes other Tiddlers that are auto included.

The approach is generic & generally useful, I think.

But I'm not sure Mark actually needs make a view bar button for it. In Noto 
per se these three are invaluable for ..

   - Backup
   - Versioning out (e.g. posting HTML elsewhere)
   - Leveraging Noto "SPLITOLOGY" (this particularly applies to the 
   WIKITEXT capture where you start afresh and re-split a different way)

And tools for all that exist for Noto.

Conclusion: Making View Bar buttons for this seems A Very Good Idea. But I 
don't think Mark needs do that unless he feels a pressing need to.

Thoughts
TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

Very nice! One comment (which I can probably do myself with CSS eventually) 
is to keep edit box SAME WIDTH  it is in view mode.
Why? Maintains *visual continuity* between the two modes such that the 
layout of text would be identical in both view & edit modes (assuming same 
font is set for both).

A thought
TT
 

> Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>> New release! Now you can edit in a nearly distraction-free way. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread TiddlyTweeter

>
> TW Tones wrote:
>>
>>
>
>>- *If you could provide a way to make the noto view be in a read 
>>mode, I can just snapshot that read mode view.*
>>
>> Mark S: 

> So that mode would be basically removing the hamburger menus and the 
> bottom settings?
>
>
> An alternative way for you to present the copy wiki and html buttons on 
>> noto, is similar to my camera button. I tried to do it for you, but 
>> something is missing in my understanding.
>
>
> So, basically if I make the icons small enough it might pass the Gifford 
> test? ;-)
>

The "*Reading Mode*" idea ... I like it a lot. Merit being that the "Noto 
Doc" can be both a way to develop docs but also present them ... In 
particular ...

   - Links would become clickable;
   - "Locks" the doc from accidental edit activation (an issue on touch 
   screen tablets, I think, as it easy to accidentally activate Edit for an 
   item)
   - Appropriate for "finished" docs. For instance for putting on-line 
   where end users don't need to edit.

Best wishes
TT
 

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread TW Tones
Mark,

You and I are on opposite day/night schedules, so I'm keeping my response 
> short.
>
>
Yes it sometimes gets lonely in Australia during the day, and things heat 
up when I am going to bed :(

That looks pretty neat! I could be wrong, but I think the 2nd click is 
> capturing an image of the snapshot. But I only played briefly.
>

2nd Click? Don't think so, it can be a little bit slow to render, capture, 
hide current tiddler and display the static tiddler, But you see little 
change, in someways that is the idea.

So that mode would be basically removing the hamburger menus and the bottom 
> settings?
>
 
Yes please.

I think the view/copy the wiki text version may deserve a special button, 
one I wonder if we could make a generic one, or is it too tool specific?


> An alternative way for you to present the copy wiki and html buttons on 
>> noto, is similar to my camera button. I tried to do it for you, but 
>> something is missing in my understanding.
>>
>
> So, basically if I make the icons small enough it might pass the Gifford 
> test? ;-)
>

I am not sure about the Gifford test, I am thinking of moving the copy 
buttons to appear in the viewToolbar perhaps where they may escape the 
Giff-lord test.
 

> Have fun!
>
> You too.

TW Tones 

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
You and I are on opposite day/night schedules, so I'm keeping my response 
short.

On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 9:35:12 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>
>
> I have a build a Generic snapshot inspired by your copy to 
> clipboard/tiddler. It is only version 0.1 but not far from completion. If 
> you install this on a fresh copy of noto you can see its functionality.
>
>
That looks pretty neat! I could be wrong, but I think the 2nd click is 
capturing an image of the snapshot. But I only played briefly.

 However rather than do this in my generic tool, and make it noto aware, or 
aware of a specific tool.

>
>- *If you could provide a way to make the noto view be in a read mode, 
>   I can just snapshot that read mode view.*
>
> So that mode would be basically removing the hamburger menus and the 
bottom settings?


An alternative way for you to present the copy wiki and html buttons on 
> noto, is similar to my camera button. I tried to do it for you, but 
> something is missing in my understanding.
>

So, basically if I make the icons small enough it might pass the Gifford 
test? ;-)


Have fun!

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread TW Tones
Mark,

I have a build a Generic snapshot inspired by your copy to 
clipboard/tiddler. It is only version 0.1 but not far from completion. If 
you install this on a fresh copy of noto you can see its functionality.

Actually it was mostly seeing your use of using wikify and its html output. 
That must have being overlooked by me.

If you try this you will see why a read mode would be most helpful.

   - Basically click the camera to take a snapshot. 
   - It creates a html snapshot from the visible tiddler including the noto 
   tools and buttons (if displayed)
   - It then replaces the view on the original tiddler with the snapshot
  - This is for complex tiddlers and reports, no need to refresh the 
  report if you can use the last snapshot, click to generate a new snapshot.
   - Now I would like to be able to take a snapshot (similar to your of 
   copy noto copy to html tiddler)
   - However rather than do this in my generic tool, and make it noto 
   aware, or aware of a specific tool.
  - *If you could provide a way to make the noto view be in a read 
  mode, I can just snapshot that read mode view.*
   
Some thoughts for Noto


   - An alternative way for you to present the copy wiki and html buttons 
   on noto, is similar to my camera button. I tried to do it for you, but 
   something is missing in my understanding.
   - If you can provide a view whose result is the wikitext view this too 
   could be copied to a tiddler with a generic tool.
   - I take the snapshot place it in a tiddler and copy to clipboard with 
   one button and to reduce complexity.
   - Options: I could boost my snapshot features and if you provide the 
   views, you can abandon the buttons and use my tool.


Regards
Tony

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 9:35:34 AM UTC+10, TW Tones wrote:
>
> Mark
>  
>
>> Do you mean a view mode as straight text, or a view mode that retains the 
>> outline indenting?
>>
>
> Retains the outline (expanded)
>  
>
>>
>> A reading mode would be nice, but it would probably take a bit of 
>> thought. When the "hamburg" menu disappears, a lot of the CSS is likely to 
>> need tweaking. 
>>
>
> Actually in someways the solution is already there, with your html 
> snapshot, and this co-insides with the other work I was doing with your 
> example as inspiration.
>
>- If my snapshot idea was complete a button would take a snapshot 
>(html tiddler) eg CurrentTiddler/shapshot and display that in place of the 
>currentTiddlers body (and thus noto) You could fold the tiddler.
>- Actually this is so easy on Noto I can do it and share back.
>
>
>> And, where would the toggle view button itself go?
>>
>
> I would make one that appears on the viewToolbar, however we can leverage 
> the fold mechanisum.
>  
>
>>
>> Maybe the question is, how many distractions on screen are allowable?
>>
>
> I would like to remove as many distractions as I can optionally when 
> working, I would like to remove all distractions when publishing.
>
>  
>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>
> No ThankYou
> TW Tones
>  
>
>>
>> On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 1:46:50 AM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> Looking good and very usable. It it possible to toggle off the features, 
>>> outliner etc... but still see the resulting content?
>>>
>>> As I said before I love the various copy buttons you have, they are 
>>> brilliant, and they generate such a view but just wondering if we can 
>>> toggle off the outline tools and icons, when not in use?. Imagine writing 
>>> instructions and returning time and time again without the intention of 
>>> editing, just reading, but be free to edit to make minor changes as needed.
>>>
>>>
>>>- If you can advise the mechanism I would be happy to make the 
>>>toggle button. Otherwise I think it would be nice if it can go into view 
>>>mode.
>>>- I would also like to toggle on or off the display of tools at the 
>>>bottom.
>>>
>>> This is a great tool, thanks so much for building it.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> TW Tones
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 1:16:03 PM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:


 New release! Now you can edit in a nearly distraction-free way. When 
 you edit, the bottom control section is gone. Floating off to the right is 
 a checkmark control for closing the edit, and a settings cog for bringing 
 up additional choices. There should be screenshots below.

 https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html







 On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 11:20:42 AM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Ok, have updated
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>
> and deleted
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html
>
> Plugin has now been updated in new version.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread TW Tones
Mark
 

> Do you mean a view mode as straight text, or a view mode that retains the 
> outline indenting?
>

Retains the outline (expanded)
 

>
> A reading mode would be nice, but it would probably take a bit of thought. 
> When the "hamburg" menu disappears, a lot of the CSS is likely to need 
> tweaking. 
>

Actually in someways the solution is already there, with your html 
snapshot, and this co-insides with the other work I was doing with your 
example as inspiration.

   - If my snapshot idea was complete a button would take a snapshot (html 
   tiddler) eg CurrentTiddler/shapshot and display that in place of the 
   currentTiddlers body (and thus noto) You could fold the tiddler.
   - Actually this is so easy on Noto I can do it and share back.


> And, where would the toggle view button itself go?
>

I would make one that appears on the viewToolbar, however we can leverage 
the fold mechanisum.
 

>
> Maybe the question is, how many distractions on screen are allowable?
>

I would like to remove as many distractions as I can optionally when 
working, I would like to remove all distractions when publishing.

 

>
> Thanks!
>

No ThankYou
TW Tones
 

>
> On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 1:46:50 AM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Looking good and very usable. It it possible to toggle off the features, 
>> outliner etc... but still see the resulting content?
>>
>> As I said before I love the various copy buttons you have, they are 
>> brilliant, and they generate such a view but just wondering if we can 
>> toggle off the outline tools and icons, when not in use?. Imagine writing 
>> instructions and returning time and time again without the intention of 
>> editing, just reading, but be free to edit to make minor changes as needed.
>>
>>
>>- If you can advise the mechanism I would be happy to make the toggle 
>>button. Otherwise I think it would be nice if it can go into view mode.
>>- I would also like to toggle on or off the display of tools at the 
>>bottom.
>>
>> This is a great tool, thanks so much for building it.
>>
>> Regards
>> TW Tones
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 1:16:03 PM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> New release! Now you can edit in a nearly distraction-free way. When you 
>>> edit, the bottom control section is gone. Floating off to the right is a 
>>> checkmark control for closing the edit, and a settings cog for bringing up 
>>> additional choices. There should be screenshots below.
>>>
>>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 11:20:42 AM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:

 Ok, have updated

 https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

 and deleted

 https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html

 Plugin has now been updated in new version.



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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread Birthe C
Mark S,

I like the "hamburg" menu, one glimpse and we know instantly that here 
NotoWritey are at work.

Birthe

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread Birthe C
Mark S,

I do understand. I only diminished the view in my browser. When we do that 
in Tiddlywiki, the left and right side of the tiddler-frame gets smaller - 
that is default. Limiting the padding of your buttons, it is possible to 
use them in that view.

Sorry - I know I am bad at explaining.

You are right though, I would not want to edit on the phone either, just 
anticipated that eventually somebody would.


Birthe

søndag den 5. juli 2020 kl. 15.29.37 UTC+2 skrev Mark S.:
>
>
> Hi Birthe,
>
> Thanks for the feedback! When you say "mobile" view, do you mean some 
> special view mode, or do you mean on a mobile device? How big is your 
> screen?
>
> When I try it on my tablet, I'm able to see the edit icons in landscape 
> mode. I'm also able to see them in portrait mode, but I have to make sure 
> the screen is as small as possible. I haven't tried it on a phone yet.
>
> I guess I have the consolation that very few people are likely to edit 
> while on a phone. ;-/
>
> My dilemma is, where do I put the controls so that they are available, but 
> don't clutter the screen? I suppose I could just put them back on the 
> bottom, which undermines the point of the exercise somewhat.
>
> Thanks!
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Tony,

Do you mean a view mode as straight text, or a view mode that retains the 
outline indenting?

A reading mode would be nice, but it would probably take a bit of thought. 
When the "hamburg" menu disappears, a lot of the CSS is likely to need 
tweaking. 

And, where would the toggle view button itself go?

Maybe the question is, how many distractions on screen are allowable?

Thanks!

On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 1:46:50 AM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Looking good and very usable. It it possible to toggle off the features, 
> outliner etc... but still see the resulting content?
>
> As I said before I love the various copy buttons you have, they are 
> brilliant, and they generate such a view but just wondering if we can 
> toggle off the outline tools and icons, when not in use?. Imagine writing 
> instructions and returning time and time again without the intention of 
> editing, just reading, but be free to edit to make minor changes as needed.
>
>
>- If you can advise the mechanism I would be happy to make the toggle 
>button. Otherwise I think it would be nice if it can go into view mode.
>- I would also like to toggle on or off the display of tools at the 
>bottom.
>
> This is a great tool, thanks so much for building it.
>
> Regards
> TW Tones
>
>
>
> On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 1:16:03 PM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>> New release! Now you can edit in a nearly distraction-free way. When you 
>> edit, the bottom control section is gone. Floating off to the right is a 
>> checkmark control for closing the edit, and a settings cog for bringing up 
>> additional choices. There should be screenshots below.
>>
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 11:20:42 AM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok, have updated
>>>
>>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>>>
>>> and deleted
>>>
>>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html
>>>
>>> Plugin has now been updated in new version.
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

Hi Birthe,

Thanks for the feedback! When you say "mobile" view, do you mean some 
special view mode, or do you mean on a mobile device? How big is your 
screen?

When I try it on my tablet, I'm able to see the edit icons in landscape 
mode. I'm also able to see them in portrait mode, but I have to make sure 
the screen is as small as possible. I haven't tried it on a phone yet.

I guess I have the consolation that very few people are likely to edit 
while on a phone. ;-/

My dilemma is, where do I put the controls so that they are available, but 
don't clutter the screen? I suppose I could just put them back on the 
bottom, which undermines the point of the exercise somewhat.

Thanks!

On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 2:08:04 AM UTC-7, Birthe C wrote:
>
> Mark S,
>
> Great tool getting even better. In mobile view you can not see the edit 
> buttons though.
>
>
> Birthe
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread Birthe C
Mark S,

Great tool getting even better. In mobile view you can not see the edit 
buttons though.


Birthe

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-05 Thread TW Tones
Mark,

Looking good and very usable. It it possible to toggle off the features, 
outliner etc... but still see the resulting content?

As I said before I love the various copy buttons you have, they are 
brilliant, and they generate such a view but just wondering if we can 
toggle off the outline tools and icons, when not in use?. Imagine writing 
instructions and returning time and time again without the intention of 
editing, just reading, but be free to edit to make minor changes as needed.


   - If you can advise the mechanism I would be happy to make the toggle 
   button. Otherwise I think it would be nice if it can go into view mode.
   - I would also like to toggle on or off the display of tools at the 
   bottom.

This is a great tool, thanks so much for building it.

Regards
TW Tones



On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 1:16:03 PM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> New release! Now you can edit in a nearly distraction-free way. When you 
> edit, the bottom control section is gone. Floating off to the right is a 
> checkmark control for closing the edit, and a settings cog for bringing up 
> additional choices. There should be screenshots below.
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 11:20:42 AM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Ok, have updated
>>
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>>
>> and deleted
>>
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html
>>
>> Plugin has now been updated in new version.
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-04 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

New release! Now you can edit in a nearly distraction-free way. When you 
edit, the bottom control section is gone. Floating off to the right is a 
checkmark control for closing the edit, and a settings cog for bringing up 
additional choices. There should be screenshots below.

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html







On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 11:20:42 AM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Ok, have updated
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>
> and deleted
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html
>
> Plugin has now been updated in new version.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-04 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki


On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 11:28:51 AM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
>
> Per request, starting a new thread here.
>
> As always, make backups because the State department will disavow all 
> knowledge of your activities.
> Although I *think* you can start using NW now, future changes (like field 
> names) might cause various features (like outline levels) to break. Also, 
> there is a new "Backup Tag Order" feature under settings that you might 
> want to use from time to time. Various operations can corrupt tag order 
> (hopefully only by other 3rd party apps, but who knows?), so having a copy 
> handy will make it easier to patch up in that eventuality.
>
>
> --
>
> What is NotoWritey ?
>
> NotoWritey is a text editor and outliner for TiddlyWiki that allows you to 
> concentrate on writing documents one section (tiddler) at a time. By 
> breaking documents down into their components, it makes it easier to follow 
> the Philosophy of tiddlers 
>  and to reference 
> individual sections of your document for use in references and quote 
> extraction.
>
>
> The outliner feature means that you can "fold" away sections of your 
> writing that you're not working on so that you can concentrate just on your 
> current writing.
>
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-03 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Ok, have updated

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

and deleted

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html

Plugin has now been updated in new version.

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-02 Thread Saq Imtiaz
Happy to hear this is working out!

On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 2:49:54 AM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> Here's the new version (plugin not ready yet) :
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html
>
> It seemed reasonably performant with the toolmap data, and it is now 
> buffered when editing so typing is unhindered.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-02 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

Here's the new version (plugin not ready yet) :

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html

It seemed reasonably performant with the toolmap data, and it is now 
buffered when editing so typing is unhindered.

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-07-01 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
I guess this post is more by way of encouraging myself (Go Mark go!) but I 
think I've made some progress. I've come up with a new algorithm for 
displaying the documents that seems much faster. It takes about 3 seconds 
on my old laptop with 8G to render David's 400+ tiddlers whether for 
unfolding a section, splitting, or initial display. The typing is slow, so 
I'll try Saq's suggestion eventually to buffer the edit inputs. Meanwhile, 
I need to clean up the CSS and formatting, which became rearranged in the 
process (as you can see below). 


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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

P.S. to last, is the populating of the "*reset*" field also a factor in 
performance?
Just wondering?

Best wishes
TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark & Saq

Though  I don't grasp coding complexities  I can comment from observation 
...
 

> On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 7:37:00 AM UTC-7, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> The slow performance in Noto reminds me of what happens when editing 
>> forces a refresh of the containing tiddler or widget. This could be as 
>> simple as a set or vars widget that is being refreshed due to a containing 
>> tiddler being changed, which refreshes all the content inside those 
>> widgets. One way to resolve this is to rework the logic for filters used to 
>> avoid such a situation. 
>
>
On Tuesday, 30 June 2020 17:20:13 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote: 

> As far as I know, nothing should be changing when typing into a tiddler. 
> If TW is refreshing with every key stroke, then that is a problem. On 
> Gifford #2, if you open a separate tiddler by itself, it also types slow. 
> So even if I changed the logic to work with a temporary tiddler, it doesn't 
> seem like there would be an improvement.
>

Right. *Everything* is slow. Actual edit, either in Noto instance or to the 
same Tiddler separately whilst Noto is open seem much the same. Actual edit 
is slowed but its when *saving the open instance* in Noto or *changing 
folding* it gets really slowed (the list field update and hiding level 
setting? Yes?) Beyond a certain point the browser freezes for me.

On initial loading, BTW, opening the Same Tiddlers without Noto using just 
the $:/StoryList is much the same as a Noto instance. Load is same. Edit is 
much quicker.

My goals when making the outliner were:
>
>   * Use a simple data structure (tag and list) for portability
>   * Use only core widgets and wikitext
>

Right. From my point of view its a nice approach. Why? Because with careful 
"stem name choice" you can have human readable titling you can use many 
ways.
That matters for many of my cases. For instance its a snap in Noto to sling 
in a chapter of a novel and get correctly numbered paragraphs that directly
correspond to source material ... so ... titling

"GE Chapter IV" is split to ...

"GE Chapter IV 1" thru to "GE Chapter IV 49"

Each number being a paragraph number.

​That seems very viable so long as your Noto instances are not holding 
zillions of items.

In a previous example I gave of a 105 page (105 Tiddler)​ full length 
screenplay the (in non Outliner) very worked well. 
I think the Outliner would manage just as well at that number of items too.

The Gifford-Test-2 was interesting because performance at First was fine. 
But as absolute numbers increased so performance started dropping 
*exponentially*.

To me that means Noto is currently best with projects whose total number of 
"chunks" per Noto instance doesn't get too high.
In practice I'm confident I can use it to deal with books by having an 
instance per chapter and so on. Sensible chunking.

David Gifford's list is challenging as I can't really see a way to chunk it 
down. If you chunked to sections, Noto each, its kinda defeating the 
objective of an umbrella outliner.

FWIW, the eBook edition of TW uses "strategic chunking" I think. I think 
that is one of the reasons it appears performative.

... backwards recursive logic is probably too much for large documents. It 
> is possible that my two original goals are inconsistent with large-scale 
> performance.
>
> Hmm. Now I'm thinking that I need to restructure the logic so that it runs 
> "forward", rather than climbing backwards.
>

IMO, for actual things I make, I think it will often be fine as it is. And 
large stuff needs thinking about anyway according to the specific logic of 
the media concerned.

It would be great if Noto performance could be improved with higher 
numbers, but, for me its basic logic is very neat, useable & human readable 
with a big range of uses.

Best wishes
TT






 

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread Dave Parker
NotoWritey / Notoriety ha ha! I just got that (better late than never :D)

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki


On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 7:37:00 AM UTC-7, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> A few quick observations. Note that I work on a very high end desktop that 
> makes it difficult to gauge performance accurately. For example, the second 
> Noto document from TT loads in a few seconds for me. However, comparing the 
> performance of Streams and Noto might be insightful.
>
>
I need to get me one of those ;-)

 What is interesting here is that Streams is much faster when the items are 
> collapsed. Note that streams has a lot of complexity added in the way of 
> filter runs for determining collapse state and drag and drag state, so I 
> would expect Noto to be as fast if not faster. So are the sub levels in 
> Noto rendered even if they are not shown?
>

Hidden sub-sections are hidden by reveal widgets. When I check using 
inspect element, I don't see the hidden text. So I assume there's no 
over-head. Note that the times you got for folded vs non-folded were about 
5x greater.


Also crucially, the editing experience in Streams seems normal, not any 
> slower than with just one tiddler in the stream. Even if the faster 
> hardware is masking some of the problem, it shows that Noto is suffering 
> far more of a performance hit when editing.
>
> I think it is important to distinguish between rendering performance, when 
> first opening the tiddler, versus refresh performance, when typing etc. 
>
>  

> The slow performance in Noto reminds me of what happens when editing 
> forces a refresh of the containing tiddler or widget. This could be as 
> simple as a set or vars widget that is being refreshed due to a containing 
> tiddler being changed, which refreshes all the content inside those 
> widgets. One way to resolve this is to rework the logic for filters used to 
> avoid such a situation. 
>
>
As far as I know, nothing should be changing when typing into a tiddler. If 
TW is refreshing with every key stroke, then that is a problem. On Gifford 
#2, if you open a separate tiddler by itself, it also types slow. So even 
if I changed the logic to work with a temporary tiddler, it doesn't seem 
like there would be an improvement.

My goals when making the outliner were:

  * Use a simple data structure (tag and list) for portability
  * Use only core widgets and wikitext

My technique is:

  * Scan through the tagged list of items
  * Each item is either displayed or not displayed, depending on it's 
"hidden" status, or the "hidden" status of it's superior entries
  * To find the hidden status of each item, "climb" from the existing 
position up one position. 
  * If the prior tiddler is a superior level, and is hidden than hide
  * If the prior tiddler is not a superior level, continuing climbing
  * Repeat until you reach superior level "1".

I'm probably missing a step. But that's the overview. This backwards 
recursive logic is probably too much for large documents. It is possible 
that my two original goals are inconsistent with large-scale performance.

Hmm. Now I'm thinking that I need to restructure the logic so that it runs 
"forward", rather than climbing backwards.

Or buy a better machine.
 
Thanks!

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread Saq Imtiaz
A few quick observations. Note that I work on a very high end desktop that 
makes it difficult to gauge performance accurately. For example, the second 
Noto document from TT loads in a few seconds for me. However, comparing the 
performance of Streams and Noto might be insightful.

These are averages of 3 runs in Streams and Noto with the tiddly toolmap 
imported.

*NOTO*
*All top level items collapsed : *
mainRender 4733ms
mainRefresh 1157ms
 
*All items expanded: *
mainRender 5497ms
mainRefresh 1220ms

*STREAMS*
*All items collapsed*
mainRender: 222ms
mainRefresh 23ms

*All items expanded:*
mainRender: 2360ms
mainRefresh 184ms

What is interesting here is that Streams is much faster when the items are 
collapsed. Note that streams has a lot of complexity added in the way of 
filter runs for determining collapse state and drag and drag state, so I 
would expect Noto to be as fast if not faster. So are the sub levels in 
Noto rendered even if they are not shown?

Also crucially, the editing experience in Streams seems normal, not any 
slower than with just one tiddler in the stream. Even if the faster 
hardware is masking some of the problem, it shows that Noto is suffering 
far more of a performance hit when editing.

I think it is important to distinguish between rendering performance, when 
first opening the tiddler, versus refresh performance, when typing etc. 

The slow performance in Noto reminds me of what happens when editing forces 
a refresh of the containing tiddler or widget. This could be as simple as a 
set or vars widget that is being refreshed due to a containing tiddler 
being changed, which refreshes all the content inside those widgets. One 
way to resolve this is to rework the logic for filters used to avoid such a 
situation. 

Another workaround is to edit in draft/temp tiddlers, and only save back to 
the original tiddler when the user actually saves. This would mean that the 
surrounding content would only refresh when you save the tiddler, as 
opposed to on every key stroke. An intermediate step that might offer some 
help is setting the throttle.refresh field on the tiddler being edited.

Note also that somewhere in tiddlytoolmap in one of the list items is the 
code for a filter run, that will end up listing close to all the tiddlers 
in the wiki!! I've removed this in my copy. I wouldn't be surprised if that 
is exacerbating the problem.

I don't have the opportunity to look at the Noto code at the moment, but 
hopefully this might lead you in the right direction with regards to 
performance issues.
Regards,

Saq

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread David Gifford
That felt really weird to wake up and see something called NotoGifford...I 
expect royalties... :-)

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 8:52:57 AM UTC-5 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> Mark & Saq
>
> FWIW, I put on-line two example wiki. * First version works fine on my 
> machine ... * Has 136 items * Half at Level 1 * Half at Level 2 ...
>
> https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoGIFFORD.html
>
>
> * Second version was fine at First but once entries (splits) reached about 
> 300 it got sluggish. * ... And if you make too many items you may get 
> browser freeze up.
> * Has 498 items * 68 at Level 1 * 430 at Level 2. I stopped splitting 
> further on Gifford's list just before MindMapping item. That is about half 
> way through the list. Will take time to load ...
>
> https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoGIFFORD-2.html
>
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
> On Tuesday, 30 June 2020 15:09:21 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I imagine the performance hit comes from the way that hiding fold levels 
>> occurs. The method I used to structure the document was meant to be highly 
>> portable. So you can port all the tiddlers and the tag tiddler to any 
>> tiddler, and view them correctly using the <> macro and nothing else. 
>> And any time you want to change the order of tiddlers, you can do so using 
>> the tag pill. But, perhaps, I focused too narrowly on an unimportant goal 
>> ;-)
>>
>> Possibly if there was a mode where fold-levels were turned off 
>> performance would improve. People could turn off folding in order to 
>> performance intensive activities and then turn it back on later for viewing.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 1:37:11 AM UTC-7, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>> @TT could you post the document with TiddlyToolmap imported? I have a 
>>> suspicion about where the performance hit on editing is coming from and 
>>> comparing side by side to Streams (in which I have Tiddly toolmap imported) 
>>> will be a quick way to check if I'm on the right track... Without having to 
>>> dive into code.
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Mark & Saq

FWIW, I put on-line two example wiki. * First version works fine on my 
machine ... * Has 136 items * Half at Level 1 * Half at Level 2 ...

https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoGIFFORD.html


* Second version was fine at First but once entries (splits) reached about 
300 it got sluggish. * ... And if you make too many items you may get 
browser freeze up.
* Has 498 items * 68 at Level 1 * 430 at Level 2. I stopped splitting 
further on Gifford's list just before MindMapping item. That is about half 
way through the list. Will take time to load ...

https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoGIFFORD-2.html


Best wishes
TT

On Tuesday, 30 June 2020 15:09:21 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I imagine the performance hit comes from the way that hiding fold levels 
> occurs. The method I used to structure the document was meant to be highly 
> portable. So you can port all the tiddlers and the tag tiddler to any 
> tiddler, and view them correctly using the <> macro and nothing else. 
> And any time you want to change the order of tiddlers, you can do so using 
> the tag pill. But, perhaps, I focused too narrowly on an unimportant goal 
> ;-)
>
> Possibly if there was a mode where fold-levels were turned off performance 
> would improve. People could turn off folding in order to performance 
> intensive activities and then turn it back on later for viewing.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 1:37:11 AM UTC-7, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> @TT could you post the document with TiddlyToolmap imported? I have a 
>> suspicion about where the performance hit on editing is coming from and 
>> comparing side by side to Streams (in which I have Tiddly toolmap imported) 
>> will be a quick way to check if I'm on the right track... Without having to 
>> dive into code.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
I imagine the performance hit comes from the way that hiding fold levels 
occurs. The method I used to structure the document was meant to be highly 
portable. So you can port all the tiddlers and the tag tiddler to any 
tiddler, and view them correctly using the <> macro and nothing else. 
And any time you want to change the order of tiddlers, you can do so using 
the tag pill. But, perhaps, I focused too narrowly on an unimportant goal 
;-)

Possibly if there was a mode where fold-levels were turned off performance 
would improve. People could turn off folding in order to performance 
intensive activities and then turn it back on later for viewing.

Thanks!

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 1:37:11 AM UTC-7, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> @TT could you post the document with TiddlyToolmap imported? I have a 
> suspicion about where the performance hit on editing is coming from and 
> comparing side by side to Streams (in which I have Tiddly toolmap imported) 
> will be a quick way to check if I'm on the right track... Without having to 
> dive into code.

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
The dynaview, as I understand it, prevents portion of the page to which you 
have not yet scrolled from rendering. This appeared to work, as you could 
tell because when you paged down there would be a pause before the page 
became visible. But it didn't seem to help performance. The dynaview 
version is still online, btw.

For that matter, I found the epub sample to be fairly slow, and it's only 
an excerpt from the book. It would have been interesting to see what the 
entire book was like, but I was unwilling to sign up for an account to 
purchase a public domain book that I've already read.

As an actual user of ebooks, I'm not sure the epub fulfils users needs. The 
epub is impressive, but probably not worth the overhead. I regularly read a 
huge book on TW without difficulty.  What the world really needs is a 
format with some sort of block-chain registry built in so that you can 
share and exchange commercial ebooks just like you can real books. In any 
event, people don't avoid reading because they need better formatting, 
people avoid reading because they're doing other things. And reading isn't 
even cheaper. A subscription to netflix will costs you less than a 
subscription to Kindle unlimited! You can binge watch the entire HP series 
in a single day, and save weeks of reading! \s

Thanks!

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 1:30:20 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>
> Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>  I probably won't be pursuing the dynaview option, since that didn't seem 
>> to improve performance.
>>
>>
>> As a reminder, the NW file can be found at:
>>
>>
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>>
>  
>
> Ciao Mark
>
> Regarding performance and Dynaview---looking at the eBook version of 
> TW---seems to indicate its optimal for fully prepped, pre-ordered Tiddlers.
> I don't fully understand how it works yet, especially its "chunkology". 
> Xavier 
> helpfully commented this though ...
>
>  Xavier wrote:
>>
>> Hi TT,
>>
>> In order to fulfil some of the user interface requirements, like keeping 
>> track of the current reading location or creating annotations anywhere 
>> inside the text, Jeremy introduced Dynaview, then Dynannotate.  In the 
>> context of ePub reading, Dynaview's aim is to reveal on demand the little 
>> chunks that have been produced at ePub parse time, along with their 
>> possible annotations. Once you have this collection of chunks (aka 
>> tiddlers), the performance, while still subject to optimisation, is not 
>> much of a worry: these chunks are not tangled nor even weaved together 
>> through any complex cross-references system. At the time Dynaview comes 
>> into play, the list of chunks is already sorted, waiting to be displayed at 
>> reading pace. That's because ePub is a much poorer and linear format than 
>> TiddlyWiki of course. Fortunately, what can do more, can do less.
>>
>> By the way, being able to split any ePub into chunks is probably the 
>> hardest part of the project. Not only because choosing the chunks limits 
>> can be hard, but also because styles are often used very loosely by 
>> publishers : for instance, you may find paragraphs that are expressed as 
>> > style="font-size: 11pt;display: block;text-indent: 0pt;">The first 
>> paragraph of a section, as you have to guess. because the WYSIWYG 
>> tools that helped producing the ePub are generally misleading. I spare you 
>> the table and images issues :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -- Xavier Cazin
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 6:43 PM TiddlyTweeter  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Xavier
>>>
>>> There is interest in it growing.
>>>
>>> I think the very good PERFORMANCE aspect is particularly interesting 
>>> since eBooks are large documents.
>>>
>>> Over in GG we did some tests with Dynaview but still hitting issues 
>>> which the eBook version does not have. I think better understanding the 
>>> eBook edition of TW will help a lot.
>>>
>>> Fingers crossed x
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> TT
>>>
>>> Xavier wrote:


 Not yet ready because of some pressing redesign, but it will eventually 
 be released as a normal plugin

>>> -- 
>>>
>>  
>
>  
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Saq

Sure, I will. Later today I put it on line.

TT

On Tuesday, 30 June 2020 10:37:11 UTC+2, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> @TT could you post the document with TiddlyToolmap imported? I have a 
> suspicion about where the performance hit on editing is coming from and 
> comparing side by side to Streams (in which I have Tiddly toolmap imported) 
> will be a quick way to check if I'm on the right track... Without having to 
> dive into code.

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread Saq Imtiaz
@TT could you post the document with TiddlyToolmap imported? I have a suspicion 
about where the performance hit on editing is coming from and comparing side by 
side to Streams (in which I have Tiddly toolmap imported) will be a quick way 
to check if I'm on the right track... Without having to dive into code.

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread TiddlyTweeter

Mark S. wrote:
>
>  I probably won't be pursuing the dynaview option, since that didn't seem 
> to improve performance.
>
>
> As a reminder, the NW file can be found at:
>
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>
 

Ciao Mark

Regarding performance and Dynaview---looking at the eBook version of 
TW---seems to indicate its optimal for fully prepped, pre-ordered Tiddlers.
I don't fully understand how it works yet, especially its "chunkology". Xavier 
helpfully commented this though ...

 Xavier wrote:
>
> Hi TT,
>
> In order to fulfil some of the user interface requirements, like keeping 
> track of the current reading location or creating annotations anywhere 
> inside the text, Jeremy introduced Dynaview, then Dynannotate.  In the 
> context of ePub reading, Dynaview's aim is to reveal on demand the little 
> chunks that have been produced at ePub parse time, along with their 
> possible annotations. Once you have this collection of chunks (aka 
> tiddlers), the performance, while still subject to optimisation, is not 
> much of a worry: these chunks are not tangled nor even weaved together 
> through any complex cross-references system. At the time Dynaview comes 
> into play, the list of chunks is already sorted, waiting to be displayed at 
> reading pace. That's because ePub is a much poorer and linear format than 
> TiddlyWiki of course. Fortunately, what can do more, can do less.
>
> By the way, being able to split any ePub into chunks is probably the 
> hardest part of the project. Not only because choosing the chunks limits 
> can be hard, but also because styles are often used very loosely by 
> publishers : for instance, you may find paragraphs that are expressed as 
>  style="font-size: 11pt;display: block;text-indent: 0pt;">The first 
> paragraph of a section, as you have to guess. because the WYSIWYG 
> tools that helped producing the ePub are generally misleading. I spare you 
> the table and images issues :-)
>
> Cheers,
> -- Xavier Cazin
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 6:43 PM TiddlyTweeter  wrote:
>
>> Xavier
>>
>> There is interest in it growing.
>>
>> I think the very good PERFORMANCE aspect is particularly interesting 
>> since eBooks are large documents.
>>
>> Over in GG we did some tests with Dynaview but still hitting issues which 
>> the eBook version does not have. I think better understanding the eBook 
>> edition of TW will help a lot.
>>
>> Fingers crossed x
>>
>> Best wishes
>> TT
>>
>> Xavier wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Not yet ready because of some pressing redesign, but it will eventually 
>>> be released as a normal plugin
>>>
>> -- 
>>
>  

 

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

I spent a while working with the outliner. 

I had hoped to get the entries in TiddlyWiki Toolmap into it (simply to 
help me track issues I want to report to David.)

It brought up the problem I encountered before with performance.

My current impression in Outliner Mode Noto does a great job until you 
start to get to larger numbers. Though could be me trying to do too much at 
once in splits.

For instance, After prep, I was able to get it to accurately split 
Gifford's list at all the main "Section" headers. And then started 
splitting each section into individual items for each entry under it. 
Pretty quickly changing things got super slow.

If I get a chance I might try it a different way by fully preparing 
Tiddlers in Noto format First.

Just comments.
Best wishes
TT



On Monday, 29 June 2020 05:04:57 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> I thought I'd add a little to the documentation, and then I discovered a 
> bug in the split routine. I'm surprised no one else came across it. 
> Hopefully it's fixed now.
>
> Plugins are now a standard part of the NW distribution. So any time you 
> want to upgrade your existing NW file you can just drag and drop the plugin 
> in from the plugins section. Note that you should first delete the 
> following individual (non-shadow) tiddlers from your file if they exist:
>
>- $:/core/images/chevron-down 
>- $:/core/images/chevron-left 
>- $:/core/images/chevron-right 
>- $:/core/images/chevron-up 
>- $:/core/images/fold-button-minus 
>- $:/core/images/menu-button-hamburg 
>- $:/core/images/unfold-button-plus 
>- $:/plugins/MAS/NotoWritey/readme 
>- DocumentTemplate 
>- Folding Macros 
>- MoveSelection 
>- NotoWritey Macros 
>- NotoWritey Styles 
>
> Currently there is no separate project for the plain editor vs. the 
> outliner -- it's all outliner. I probably won't be pursuing the dynaview 
> option, since that didn't seem to improve performance.
>
>
> As a reminder, the NW file can be found at:
>
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-30 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Mark S. wrote:

Below is a modified

   $:/core/macros/export 
> tiddler. Now when you click on the "export tiddler" option, you get two 
> more choices. One copies the rendered tiddler to HTML, and the other copies 
> to plain text.
>
> I don't think copying the all-up wikitext would be easy. There are no 
> tools for collecting the *rendered output* of a tiddler as wikitext. You 
> can get the parsetree(s), but then you'd have to turn them back into 
> wikitext, which is likely to be non-trivial. You could capture the exact 
> wikitext for the single tiddler, but that wouldn't be very useful.
>

Very useful! That, along with your Tiddler WikiText collector in Noto 
covers most any situation.

FYI, the pure text one is particularly interesting to me as that is what 
screenplays are. Using it you can "capture" pure text (even when produced 
by a specialised parser, e.g. Fountain.io rules).


Best wishes
TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-29 Thread TW Tones
Thanks mark,

Much appreciated.

I will shareback, but these exporters are nice tool in their own right.

The ability to create a tiddler directly containing the HTML is also 
desirable.

I intend to have a snapshot of tiddlername > $:/shanpshot/tiddlername
and allow this to be displayed instead of or along side tiddlername

Regards
Tony

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 8:05:26 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
> In case I write over it, I've put $:/core/macros/export here as well:
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/playground.html
>
> On Monday, June 29, 2020 at 1:26:48 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Tony,
>>
>> On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 9:20:13 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>>>
>>> I have being trying to replicate your buttons to take snapshots of other 
>>> tiddlers as html, wikitext to clipboard and tiddler. I am however 
>>> foundering.
>>>
>>> If you ever feel so inclined I would love toolbar icons to do this for 
>>> any tiddler, this is a most impressive feature and it could be used in many 
>>> places including streams. No pressure, and yes I am saying it again, in 
>>> different words.
>>>
>>>
>> Below is a modified
>>$:/core/macros/export 
>> tiddler. Now when you click on the "export tiddler" option, you get two 
>> more choices. One copies the rendered tiddler to HTML, and the other copies 
>> to plain text.
>>
>> I don't think copying the all-up wikitext would be easy. There are no 
>> tools for collecting the *rendered output* of a tiddler as wikitext. You 
>> can get the parsetree(s), but then you'd have to turn them back into 
>> wikitext, which is likely to be non-trivial. You could capture the exact 
>> wikitext for the single tiddler, but that wouldn't be very useful.
>>
>> If you hurry, the modifications here may be at 
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html. While playing with 
>> the text, I accidentally posted it there. But I don't intend to have a 
>> change to the core as part of the NotoWritey distribution, so the next 
>> update will erase the changes. 
>>
>> HTH!
>>
>> \define compile-h2()
>> <$transclude mode=block/>
>> \end
>> \define compile-w2()
>> <$view field="text"/>
>> \end
>> \define exportButtonFilename(baseFilename)
>> $baseFilename$$(extension)$
>> \end
>>
>> \define exportButton(exportFilter:"[!is[system]sort[title]]",lingoBase,
>> baseFilename:"tiddlers")
>> <$button popup=<> "$:/state/popup/export">> tooltip={{$lingoBase$Hint}} aria-label={{
>> $lingoBase$Caption}} class=<> selectedClass=
>> "tc-selected">
>> <$list filter="[match[yes]]">
>> {{$:/core/images/export-button}}
>> 
>> <$list filter="[match[yes]]">
>> <$text text={{$lingoBase$Caption}}/>
>> 
>> <$reveal state=<> type=
>> "popup" position="below" animate="yes">
>> 
>> <$list filter="[all[shadows+tiddlers]tag[$:/tags/Exporter]]">
>> <$set name="extension" value={{!!extension}}>
>> <$button class="tc-btn-invisible">
>> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-download-file" $param=<> >> exportFilter="""$exportFilter$""" filename=<> """$baseFilename$""">>/>
>> <$action-deletetiddler $tiddler=<>/>
>> <$transclude field="description"/>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <$wikify text="""<>""" name="compiled" output="html">
>> <$button class="tc-btn-invisible" message="tm-copy-to-clipboard" 
>> param=<> >
>> HTML -> clip
>> 
>> 
>> <$wikify text={{!!text}} name="compiled">
>> <$vars regexp="\n{2,}"  regexp2="\s{1,}\n" lf="""
>> """
>> lf2="""
>>
>> """
>> >
>> <$vars 
>> compressed={{{[splitregexpjoinsplitregexpjoinsplitregexp[\n]join]}}}
>>  
>> >
>> <$button class="tc-btn-invisible" message="tm-copy-to-clipboard" 
>> param=<> >
>> Text -> clipboard
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> \end
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-29 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
In case I write over it, I've put $:/core/macros/export here as well:

https://marxsal.github.io/various/playground.html

On Monday, June 29, 2020 at 1:26:48 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 9:20:13 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>>
>> I have being trying to replicate your buttons to take snapshots of other 
>> tiddlers as html, wikitext to clipboard and tiddler. I am however 
>> foundering.
>>
>> If you ever feel so inclined I would love toolbar icons to do this for 
>> any tiddler, this is a most impressive feature and it could be used in many 
>> places including streams. No pressure, and yes I am saying it again, in 
>> different words.
>>
>>
> Below is a modified
>$:/core/macros/export 
> tiddler. Now when you click on the "export tiddler" option, you get two 
> more choices. One copies the rendered tiddler to HTML, and the other copies 
> to plain text.
>
> I don't think copying the all-up wikitext would be easy. There are no 
> tools for collecting the *rendered output* of a tiddler as wikitext. You 
> can get the parsetree(s), but then you'd have to turn them back into 
> wikitext, which is likely to be non-trivial. You could capture the exact 
> wikitext for the single tiddler, but that wouldn't be very useful.
>
> If you hurry, the modifications here may be at 
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html. While playing with the 
> text, I accidentally posted it there. But I don't intend to have a change 
> to the core as part of the NotoWritey distribution, so the next update will 
> erase the changes. 
>
> HTH!
>
> \define compile-h2()
> <$transclude mode=block/>
> \end
> \define compile-w2()
> <$view field="text"/>
> \end
> \define exportButtonFilename(baseFilename)
> $baseFilename$$(extension)$
> \end
>
> \define exportButton(exportFilter:"[!is[system]sort[title]]",lingoBase,
> baseFilename:"tiddlers")
> <$button popup=< "$:/state/popup/export">> tooltip={{$lingoBase$Hint}} aria-label={{
> $lingoBase$Caption}} class=<> selectedClass=
> "tc-selected">
> <$list filter="[match[yes]]">
> {{$:/core/images/export-button}}
> 
> <$list filter="[match[yes]]">
> <$text text={{$lingoBase$Caption}}/>
> 
> <$reveal state=<> type=
> "popup" position="below" animate="yes">
> 
> <$list filter="[all[shadows+tiddlers]tag[$:/tags/Exporter]]">
> <$set name="extension" value={{!!extension}}>
> <$button class="tc-btn-invisible">
> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-download-file" $param=<> 
> exportFilter="""$exportFilter$""" filename=< """$baseFilename$""">>/>
> <$action-deletetiddler $tiddler=<>/>
> <$transclude field="description"/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <$wikify text="""<>""" name="compiled" output="html">
> <$button class="tc-btn-invisible" message="tm-copy-to-clipboard" 
> param=<> >
> HTML -> clip
> 
> 
> <$wikify text={{!!text}} name="compiled">
> <$vars regexp="\n{2,}"  regexp2="\s{1,}\n" lf="""
> """
> lf2="""
>
> """
> >
> <$vars 
> compressed={{{[splitregexpjoinsplitregexpjoinsplitregexp[\n]join]}}}
>  
> >
> <$button class="tc-btn-invisible" message="tm-copy-to-clipboard" 
> param=<> >
> Text -> clipboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \end
>
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-29 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

Hi Tony,

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 9:20:13 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>
> I have being trying to replicate your buttons to take snapshots of other 
> tiddlers as html, wikitext to clipboard and tiddler. I am however 
> foundering.
>
> If you ever feel so inclined I would love toolbar icons to do this for any 
> tiddler, this is a most impressive feature and it could be used in many 
> places including streams. No pressure, and yes I am saying it again, in 
> different words.
>
>
Below is a modified
   $:/core/macros/export 
tiddler. Now when you click on the "export tiddler" option, you get two 
more choices. One copies the rendered tiddler to HTML, and the other copies 
to plain text.

I don't think copying the all-up wikitext would be easy. There are no tools 
for collecting the *rendered output* of a tiddler as wikitext. You can get 
the parsetree(s), but then you'd have to turn them back into wikitext, 
which is likely to be non-trivial. You could capture the exact wikitext for 
the single tiddler, but that wouldn't be very useful.

If you hurry, the modifications here may be at 
https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html. While playing with the 
text, I accidentally posted it there. But I don't intend to have a change 
to the core as part of the NotoWritey distribution, so the next update will 
erase the changes. 

HTH!

\define compile-h2()
<$transclude mode=block/>
\end
\define compile-w2()
<$view field="text"/>
\end
\define exportButtonFilename(baseFilename)
$baseFilename$$(extension)$
\end

\define exportButton(exportFilter:"[!is[system]sort[title]]",lingoBase,
baseFilename:"tiddlers")
<$button popup=<> tooltip={{$lingoBase$Hint}} aria-label={{$lingoBase$Caption}} class=<> selectedClass="tc-selected">
<$list filter="[match[yes]]">
{{$:/core/images/export-button}}

<$list filter="[match[yes]]">
<$text text={{$lingoBase$Caption}}/>

<$reveal state=<> type=
"popup" position="below" animate="yes">

<$list filter="[all[shadows+tiddlers]tag[$:/tags/Exporter]]">
<$set name="extension" value={{!!extension}}>
<$button class="tc-btn-invisible">
<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-download-file" $param=<> 
exportFilter="""$exportFilter$""" filename=<>/>
<$action-deletetiddler $tiddler=<>/>
<$transclude field="description"/>




<$wikify text="""<>""" name="compiled" output="html">
<$button class="tc-btn-invisible" message="tm-copy-to-clipboard" 
param=<> >
HTML -> clip


<$wikify text={{!!text}} name="compiled">
<$vars regexp="\n{2,}"  regexp2="\s{1,}\n" lf="""
"""
lf2="""

"""
>
<$vars 
compressed={{{[splitregexpjoinsplitregexpjoinsplitregexp[\n]join]}}}
 
>
<$button class="tc-btn-invisible" message="tm-copy-to-clipboard" 
param=<> >
Text -> clipboard






\end



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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-28 Thread TW Tones
Mark,

Thanks so much for this solution and the updates. 

   - Perhaps one day you may allow us to toggle the display of the 
   notowritey settings, just for a cleaner screen.
   - Perhaps it could be put behind the info tab with $:/tags/TiddlerInfo 
   once the setup is complete.
   - I plan to write a similar method to that in my recent post Jumping 
   into Streams 
    to 
   demonstrate how your solution can be leveraged further without needing 
   further code changes.

I have being trying to replicate your buttons to take snapshots of other 
tiddlers as html, wikitext to clipboard and tiddler. I am however 
foundering.

If you ever feel so inclined I would love toolbar icons to do this for any 
tiddler, this is a most impressive feature and it could be used in many 
places including streams. No pressure, and yes I am saying it again, in 
different words.

Imagine a Large and complex tiddler, with lots of calculations and date 
tiddlers could be captured into shapshot, and displayed instead of the 
actual tiddler (hide-body = yes) and a refresh button provided so it is not 
a performance hit by just being displayed. This would also allow a large 
report result to be captured "as at a particular time" and remain valid 
despite changes to the underlying data.

I am happy to help achieve any of my suggestions in here, please ask.

Love your work
TW Tones.

On Monday, June 29, 2020 at 1:04:57 PM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> I thought I'd add a little to the documentation, and then I discovered a 
> bug in the split routine. I'm surprised no one else came across it. 
> Hopefully it's fixed now.
>
> Plugins are now a standard part of the NW distribution. So any time you 
> want to upgrade your existing NW file you can just drag and drop the plugin 
> in from the plugins section. Note that you should first delete the 
> following individual (non-shadow) tiddlers from your file if they exist:
>
>- $:/core/images/chevron-down 
>- $:/core/images/chevron-left 
>- $:/core/images/chevron-right 
>- $:/core/images/chevron-up 
>- $:/core/images/fold-button-minus 
>- $:/core/images/menu-button-hamburg 
>- $:/core/images/unfold-button-plus 
>- $:/plugins/MAS/NotoWritey/readme 
>- DocumentTemplate 
>- Folding Macros 
>- MoveSelection 
>- NotoWritey Macros 
>- NotoWritey Styles 
>
> Currently there is no separate project for the plain editor vs. the 
> outliner -- it's all outliner. I probably won't be pursuing the dynaview 
> option, since that didn't seem to improve performance.
>
>
> As a reminder, the NW file can be found at:
>
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-28 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

I thought I'd add a little to the documentation, and then I discovered a 
bug in the split routine. I'm surprised no one else came across it. 
Hopefully it's fixed now.

Plugins are now a standard part of the NW distribution. So any time you 
want to upgrade your existing NW file you can just drag and drop the plugin 
in from the plugins section. Note that you should first delete the 
following individual (non-shadow) tiddlers from your file if they exist:

   - $:/core/images/chevron-down 
   - $:/core/images/chevron-left 
   - $:/core/images/chevron-right 
   - $:/core/images/chevron-up 
   - $:/core/images/fold-button-minus 
   - $:/core/images/menu-button-hamburg 
   - $:/core/images/unfold-button-plus 
   - $:/plugins/MAS/NotoWritey/readme 
   - DocumentTemplate 
   - Folding Macros 
   - MoveSelection 
   - NotoWritey Macros 
   - NotoWritey Styles 

Currently there is no separate project for the plain editor vs. the 
outliner -- it's all outliner. I probably won't be pursuing the dynaview 
option, since that didn't seem to improve performance.


As a reminder, the NW file can be found at:


https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html


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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-21 Thread Birthe C
Mark S,

TW Tones could be right.
I have been playing with the editor, the outliner and they just works. I 
have been using the outliner each day since the first version because I 
find it useful. I just do not have anything intelligent to add to that. I 
am sure it will be a loved addition to Tiddlywiki.

I am not a regex person, so I hope it will not be a necessity, but an 
option?


Birthe

søndag den 21. juni 2020 kl. 02.28.59 UTC+2 skrev TW Tones:
>
> Mark,
>
> I think feedback on Noto, could be like when I practice french with a 
> native speaker, When I get it wrong the feed back is confusion, quizzical 
> looks, questions and possible laughter, when I get it right there is no 
> feedback at all, they simply respond to the meaning of what I say. The only 
> language feedback is in the negative.
>
> Also I expect a lot of people will put Noto on a shelf, pending an 
> appropriate application.
>
> A Few more Q's may help some users.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-21 Thread TiddlyTweeter
I doubt that is the issue.

Just saying
TT

On Sunday, 21 June 2020 02:28:59 UTC+2, TW Tones wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> I think feedback on Noto, could be like when I practice french with a 
> native speaker, When I get it wrong the feed back is confusion, quizzical 
> looks, questions and possible laughter, when I get it right there is no 
> feedback at all, they simply respond to the meaning of what I say. The only 
> language feedback is in the negative.
>
> Also I expect a lot of people will put Noto on a shelf, pending an 
> appropriate application.
>
> A Few more Q's may help some users.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 5:28:47 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>  Thanks for the feedback, TT!
>>
>> It seems like for your purposes the "flat" editor is proving more useful, 
>> even though it's older and lacking some of the new editor features (join 
>> next x tiddlers, reset changes).
>>
>> I'm wondering if I could rig the editor to switch between the two modes, 
>> so you could do larger, flatter documents in the plain editor but then have 
>> the outliner available when editing smaller, or more folded, documents. 
>>
>> The dynaview plugin doesn't seem to have improved performance, which is a 
>> shame.
>>
>> It seems like being able to configure the split phrase dynamically might 
>> be useful.
>>
>> I was hoping there would be more interest in either the outliner or the 
>> editor. Perhaps  I misjudged the need.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-21 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Mark S. wrote:
>
> ... I was hoping there would be more interest in either the outliner or 
> the editor. Perhaps  I misjudged the need.
>

Me too.

Its, I think, the usual TW story. Not that many people here & right now I 
count 4 variations on inline-ish editing going on. That is a lot for our 
numbers.

FWIW, I favor Noto because its closer to a "building block" approach. That 
comes out in the kind of things I write which benefit from simple building 
blocks, rather than something more formed than I need or want.

Just a comment
TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-21 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Mark S. wrote:
 It seems like being able to configure the split phrase dynamically might 
be useful.

Certainly for users like me who like regex it would be useful. Better than 
having to hack your code.

What I like about Noto a lot is once a user got their "doc" prepped its a 
doddle to slice it.

Its far less complex than extant tools in TW. IMO is accords well with 
actual methods end users understand. So, ...

*16 - Allow User To Dynamically Define Split Point Regex*


Best wishes
TT

 

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-20 Thread TW Tones
Mark,

I think feedback on Noto, could be like when I practice french with a 
native speaker, When I get it wrong the feed back is confusion, quizzical 
looks, questions and possible laughter, when I get it right there is no 
feedback at all, they simply respond to the meaning of what I say. The only 
language feedback is in the negative.

Also I expect a lot of people will put Noto on a shelf, pending an 
appropriate application.

A Few more Q's may help some users.

Regards
Tony

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 5:28:47 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
>  Thanks for the feedback, TT!
>
> It seems like for your purposes the "flat" editor is proving more useful, 
> even though it's older and lacking some of the new editor features (join 
> next x tiddlers, reset changes).
>
> I'm wondering if I could rig the editor to switch between the two modes, 
> so you could do larger, flatter documents in the plain editor but then have 
> the outliner available when editing smaller, or more folded, documents. 
>
> The dynaview plugin doesn't seem to have improved performance, which is a 
> shame.
>
> It seems like being able to configure the split phrase dynamically might 
> be useful.
>
> I was hoping there would be more interest in either the outliner or the 
> editor. Perhaps  I misjudged the need.
>
> Thanks!
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-20 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Mark S. wrote:
>
>   
>
I'm wondering if I could rig the editor to switch between the two modes, so 
> you could do larger, flatter documents in the plain editor but then have 
> the outliner available when editing smaller, or more folded, documents. 
>

 I don't know if its two things or one.

What I can see is that *both* approaches work. Which is best is somewhat 
purpose dependent,  I think.

TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-20 Thread TiddlyTweeter


On Saturday, 20 June 2020 21:28:47 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>  Thanks for the feedback, TT!
>
> It seems like for your purposes the "flat" editor is proving more useful, 
> even though it's older and lacking some of the new editor features (join 
> next x tiddlers, reset changes).
>
> I'm wondering if I could rig the editor to switch between the two modes, 
> so you could do larger, flatter documents in the plain editor but then have 
> the outliner available when editing smaller, or more folded, documents. 
>
> The dynaview plugin doesn't seem to have improved performance, which is a 
> shame.
>
> It seems like being able to configure the split phrase dynamically might 
> be useful.
>
> I was hoping there would be more interest in either the outliner or the 
> editor. Perhaps  I misjudged the need.
>
> Thanks!
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-20 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Mark S. wrote:
>
> It seems like for your purposes the "flat" editor is proving more useful, 
> even though it's older and lacking some of the new editor features (join 
> next x tiddlers, reset changes).
>

Actually I think the more sophisticated outliner is great too.

"Flat edit" just is what you need in scripts. And that is a major interest 
of mine.

If  I can  will give an outliner issue soon too.

TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-20 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
 Thanks for the feedback, TT!

It seems like for your purposes the "flat" editor is proving more useful, 
even though it's older and lacking some of the new editor features (join 
next x tiddlers, reset changes).

I'm wondering if I could rig the editor to switch between the two modes, so 
you could do larger, flatter documents in the plain editor but then have 
the outliner available when editing smaller, or more folded, documents. 

The dynaview plugin doesn't seem to have improved performance, which is a 
shame.

It seems like being able to configure the split phrase dynamically might be 
useful.

I was hoping there would be more interest in either the outliner or the 
editor. Perhaps  I misjudged the need.

Thanks!

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-20 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark 

This is still in process but  it shows something about Noto *Splitology* that 
is *really excellent*.

I think real world issues are helpful. For a long time I wanted to present 
(and edit) movie scripts in TW. The problem I always had was that 
screenplays have an incredibly strict discipline. Movie makers think in 
terms of "pages". One script page being one minute of film. Its a very old 
method. And very odd if you don't use it.  But it works well. Very well.

What I needed was a way to combine & split according to editing need. This 
changes over time in screenplay development. In First edit you really need 
be SCENE focused. In Later edit you need be PAGE focused.

The definable split, plus snapshot export back to *one *Tiddler, in Noto, 
basically gives a method to infinitely play with screenplay writing in a 
way that actual screenwriters could use. Here is a proof of concept where 
split in Noto is on every 56th line ... "*splitregexp[%SPLIT%]*"

https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoMAKER.html#MISERY%20PAGINATED


MISERY comes out at at 105 pages. That is more or less its length in 
minutes, so that is perfect for screenwriting. (FYI the visible Page 
numbers are just dynamic CSS counters on the back of a Noto class., which 
is what you want, you would not want them hard coded.)

FYI, I inserted the split points into the script using Tiddler Commander. 
So there is no need to leave TW to do that.

https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoMAKER.html#%24%3A%2FCommander


I'm pretty sure you could cascade actions like this into "recipes" such 
that a screenplay author could focus on writing extremely well. Moving 
between scene splits and page splits via WikiText "compiles".

*I wanted you to see it*, mainly because Noto is "document" focused, and 
this a Good example of that, I think. 

Noto is very easy to use and, with thought, can be matched to many end 
purposes.

Thanks & best wishes
TT




On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 18:55:32 UTC+2, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Thanks Mark. Much appreciated.
>
> With a bit of luck I'll do a demo of outcome next couple of days.
>
> TT
>
> On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 18:24:28 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I think the only version without splitting was an early version before I 
>> put splitting in.
>>
>> The splitting happens in DocumentTemplate. There are 3 places the split 
>> has to go. Just search for splitregexp .
>>
>> Why 3? 
>>
>> One finds the new "sentences" and creates the new tiddlers.
>> The second performs a count and then inserts the titles into the correct 
>> place in the list using that count.
>> The final finds the first sentence and writes over the original tiddler
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 9:46:11 PM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> Ciao Mark
>>>
>>> I'm doing some experiments with *Splitology *in Noto. I can't find the 
>>> pre-outliner version? One with the global "splitting" off? I can find 3 
>>> versions of Outliner.
>>> UPDATE:  ignore stuff in Red. I found what I needed in an version I 
>>> saved before.
>>>
>>> Could you indicate where I can change the regex(?) in the macro(s) that 
>>> determines the split point so I can modify myself for testing? Just FYI 
>>> I'll be loading texts with split points indicated by string "*%SPLIT%*"
>>>
>>> Many thanks
>>> TT
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-16 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Thanks Mark. Much appreciated.

With a bit of luck I'll do a demo of outcome next couple of days.

TT

On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 18:24:28 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I think the only version without splitting was an early version before I 
> put splitting in.
>
> The splitting happens in DocumentTemplate. There are 3 places the split 
> has to go. Just search for splitregexp .
>
> Why 3? 
>
> One finds the new "sentences" and creates the new tiddlers.
> The second performs a count and then inserts the titles into the correct 
> place in the list using that count.
> The final finds the first sentence and writes over the original tiddler
>
> HTH
>
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 9:46:11 PM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Mark
>>
>> I'm doing some experiments with *Splitology *in Noto. I can't find the 
>> pre-outliner version? One with the global "splitting" off? I can find 3 
>> versions of Outliner.
>> UPDATE:  ignore stuff in Red. I found what I needed in an version I saved 
>> before.
>>
>> Could you indicate where I can change the regex(?) in the macro(s) that 
>> determines the split point so I can modify myself for testing? Just FYI 
>> I'll be loading texts with split points indicated by string "*%SPLIT%*"
>>
>> Many thanks
>> TT
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-16 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Thot -- I suppose the splitter expression should eventually get it's own 
configuration tiddler.

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 9:24:28 AM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I think the only version without splitting was an early version before I 
> put splitting in.
>
> The splitting happens in DocumentTemplate. There are 3 places the split 
> has to go. Just search for splitregexp .
>
> Why 3? 
>
> One finds the new "sentences" and creates the new tiddlers.
> The second performs a count and then inserts the titles into the correct 
> place in the list using that count.
> The final finds the first sentence and writes over the original tiddler
>
> HTH
>
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 9:46:11 PM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Mark
>>
>> I'm doing some experiments with *Splitology *in Noto. I can't find the 
>> pre-outliner version? One with the global "splitting" off? I can find 3 
>> versions of Outliner.
>> UPDATE:  ignore stuff in Red. I found what I needed in an version I saved 
>> before.
>>
>> Could you indicate where I can change the regex(?) in the macro(s) that 
>> determines the split point so I can modify myself for testing? Just FYI 
>> I'll be loading texts with split points indicated by string "*%SPLIT%*"
>>
>> Many thanks
>> TT
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-16 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
I think the only version without splitting was an early version before I 
put splitting in.

The splitting happens in DocumentTemplate. There are 3 places the split has 
to go. Just search for splitregexp .

Why 3? 

One finds the new "sentences" and creates the new tiddlers.
The second performs a count and then inserts the titles into the correct 
place in the list using that count.
The final finds the first sentence and writes over the original tiddler

HTH

On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 9:46:11 PM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark
>
> I'm doing some experiments with *Splitology *in Noto. I can't find the 
> pre-outliner version? One with the global "splitting" off? I can find 3 
> versions of Outliner.
> UPDATE:  ignore stuff in Red. I found what I needed in an version I saved 
> before.
>
> Could you indicate where I can change the regex(?) in the macro(s) that 
> determines the split point so I can modify myself for testing? Just FYI 
> I'll be loading texts with split points indicated by string "*%SPLIT%*"
>
> Many thanks
> TT
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-16 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Update for those on email to my last post in Red.

On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 06:46:11 UTC+2, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark
>
> I'm doing some experiments with *Splitology *in Noto. I can't find the 
> pre-outliner version? One with the global "splitting" off? I can find 3 
> versions of Outliner.
> UPDATE:  ignore stuff in Red. I found what I needed in a version I saved 
> before.
>
> Could you indicate where I can change the regex(?) in the macro(s) that 
> determines the split point so I can modify myself for testing? Just FYI 
> I'll be loading texts with split points indicated by string "*%SPLIT%*"
>
> Many thanks
> TT
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-15 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

I'm doing some experiments with *Splitology *in Noto. I can't find the 
pre-outliner version? One with the global "splitting" off? I can find 3 
versions of Outliner.

Could you indicate where I can change the regex(?) in the macro(s) that 
determines the split point so I can modify myself for testing? Just FYI 
I'll be loading texts with split points indicated by string "*%SPLIT%*"

Many thanks
TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-15 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Thanks!

Both of them were a little slow to load and there was one "stop script" 
message for each. Still less than 30 seconds on my refurbished, ancient 
laptop with 8gigs ram.

Once loaded, I can tell dynaview is working. You page down, and the screen 
is blank. A moment later it renders. So it's working, but doesn't seem to 
be adding any value. The normal noto mode seemed to work fine once it was 
loaded. I'm guessing behind the scenes the DynaView version is using less 
memory. So if you wanted to work in the middle of a long play, your ff 
would be less likely to crash. Maybe.

In both of the versions, it was hard to type into an edit box. Each letter 
taking a half second or more to appear.

So, yeah. Lot's to think about.

Thanks!

On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 6:54:01 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark
>
> Here are quick tests I did throwing the "Misery" screenplay into noto ... 
> The are approx 1800 Tiddlers. In reality you'd not use it like that, but 
> chunk into smaller "Acts" of around 150 Tiddlers each. Nonetheless, gives a 
> feel for performances...
>
> Test in* Noto Outliner  *...
>
>  
>
> Test in* Noto Outliner + Dynavi 
> ew*
>
>
> I think Dynaview can help, but I'm not sure its for this scenario? 
> Sometimes its actually worse for Notos! I don't know enough to know how to 
> make it optimal.
>
> Best wishes
> TT 
>
> On Monday, 15 June 2020 14:57:40 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>  Thanks for testing! Once you had the Crusoes (new system of measurement) 
>> installed in Dyna View, was performance any better? If not either
>>
>> 1. Having Dynaview doesn't help this kind of TW file
>> 2. I implemented Dynaview incorrectly
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-15 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

Here are quick tests I did throwing the "Misery" screenplay into noto ... 
The are approx 1800 Tiddlers. In reality you'd not use it like that, but 
chunk into smaller "Acts" of around 150 Tiddlers each. Nonetheless, gives a 
feel for performances...

Test in* Noto Outliner  *...

 

Test in* Noto Outliner + Dynavi ew*


I think Dynaview can help, but I'm not sure its for this scenario? 
Sometimes its actually worse for Notos! I don't know enough to know how to 
make it optimal.

Best wishes
TT 

On Monday, 15 June 2020 14:57:40 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>  Thanks for testing! Once you had the Crusoes (new system of measurement) 
> installed in Dyna View, was performance any better? If not either
>
> 1. Having Dynaview doesn't help this kind of TW file
> 2. I implemented Dynaview incorrectly
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-15 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
 Thanks for testing! Once you had the Crusoes (new system of measurement) 
installed in Dyna View, was performance any better? If not either

1. Having Dynaview doesn't help this kind of TW file
2. I implemented Dynaview incorrectly

Thanks!



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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-15 Thread TiddlyTweeter
*Notes On Performance At Scale ...*

1.* New Noto But Loading Existing Tiddlers With No Outliner fields... *Having 
played with the DYNA and non-Dyna OUTLINERs to see if they cope with 500 
Crusoes, result ... None of them can take 500 Crusoes UNLESS the extra 
fields the Outliner version needs are present already on starting noto 
instance.
So to confirm test I used "Copy Wikitext" of the Simple Doc version pasted 
it into the first TIiddler in a noto instance and In all three Outliner 
versions created correct "Crusoe" Tiddlers with proper populated fields.
*NotaBene, *sets of these Tiddlers, WITH the Outliner fields CAN THEN be 
imported/exported at scale, either with or without the Tag Tiddler.
 Dynaview version seems *no different *on this than others. (Note: none of 
these issues arise with lower numbers of Tiddlers)

*2. Test For Screenplays... *I suspect the Non-Outliner version, the one 
for simple "Docs", could be stunning for writing screenplays. I did some 
tests importing full scripts, capture to WikiText and re-import. *Well 
performative at scale!! *This is something I work on over time & maybe do a 
detailed example for.

Best wishes
TT
 

> Mark. S
>>
>> I have a version with dynaview wrapped around. You can see if that helps:
>>
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-dynaview.html
>>
>> Let me know!
>>
>>
>>> *Possible Problem With Larger Numbers??* arose for me In testing the 
>>> two "Various" editions. I cannot get either to work with the 500+ Crusoes. 
>>> The wiki & browser (FF) freeze totally, restart required. This is with 
>>> exactly the same data used as the prior version with the "Crusoe" test I 
>>> posted that worked. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-14 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Quick answer now, longer answer tomorrow.

I got Crusoes working under the DYNA version (well), but not through direct 
import of existing individual tiddlers which froze.

I give more details a domani, when I have time to explain more.

Best
TT

On Saturday, 13 June 2020 22:21:33 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:13:29 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>>
>> *Possible Problem With Larger Numbers??* arose for me In testing the two 
>> "Various" editions. I cannot get either to work with the 500+ Crusoes. The 
>> wiki & browser (FF) freeze totally, restart required. This is with exactly 
>> the same data used as the prior version with the "Crusoe" test I posted 
>> that worked. 
>>
>>
>>
> I have a version with dynaview wrapped around. You can see if that helps:
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-dynaview.html
>
> Let me know!
>
> Thanks!
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-13 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki


On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:13:29 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>
> *Possible Problem With Larger Numbers??* arose for me In testing the two 
> "Various" editions. I cannot get either to work with the 500+ Crusoes. The 
> wiki & browser (FF) freeze totally, restart required. This is with exactly 
> the same data used as the prior version with the "Crusoe" test I posted 
> that worked. 
>
>
>
I have a version with dynaview wrapped around. You can see if that helps:

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-dynaview.html

Let me know!

Thanks!

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-13 Thread TiddlyTweeter
You can already hide it if you know CSS. That bottom section is a div with 
a class ...



I'm sure a hider toggle for that section will come from someone in due 
course. I think its more the overall tool needs settle a bit more first??

Best wishes
TT

On Saturday, 13 June 2020 06:20:31 UTC+2, Dave Parker wrote:
>
> Just trying this for the first time - Looks useful!!
>
> Just wondering, is there an option to fold away that settings thingie that 
> sits at the bottom of every noto-Tiddler? 
>
> (might be a bit prettier that way ;)
>
> - Dave
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-13 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

Couple of things ...

*List Field Order Is Preserved*, I'm pretty much sure, *On Import*. But 
note the way I tested was to export by using PMario's Bundler. N.B. a "List 
Bundle" not a "Filter Bundle." I also included the Tag Tiddler. That seems 
a v. secure method.

*Possible Problem With Larger Numbers??* arose for me In testing the two 
"Various" editions. I cannot get either to work with the 500+ Crusoes. The 
wiki & browser (FF) freeze totally, restart required. This is with exactly 
the same data used as the prior version with the "Crusoe" test I posted 
that worked. 

Best wishes
TT

TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Not sure.  I got in a mess with unpopulated non-existant tag Tiddlers 
> confusing the issue.
>
> I will check out reliability on only extant populated tag Tiddlers & 
> report back.
>
> On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 18:48:27 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>> [tag[mytag]] should use the list field in "mytag". In my quick 
>> experiment, the tiddlers appeared to export correctly to the JSON. They 
>> even kept the same order when importing, which I found surprising. To have 
>> a complete kit, I suspect that you need to export the tag tiddler as well, 
>> because the target tiddlywiki can sort things anyway it wants ... 
>> eventually.
>>
>> Do you have an example where the order wasn't maintained?
>>
>> On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 1:47:14 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> Ciao Mark
>>>
>>> *Question: Advanced Search Filter Order?*
>>>
>>> A naive and, hopefully, simple to answer question ... In there a simple  
>>> "Advanced Search" filter that will accurately list Tiddlers by tag in same 
>>> order as list field?
>>>
>>> Use case. From Advanced Search, Tiddler Commander etc you run filter the 
>>> use the export function to create JSON in THAT order?
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> TT
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-12 Thread Dave Parker
Just trying this for the first time - Looks useful!!

Just wondering, is there an option to fold away that settings thingie that 
sits at the bottom of every noto-Tiddler? 

(might be a bit prettier that way ;)

- Dave

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread TonyM
TT,

I think your framework idea is nice. But, how, practically, to do it?
>
>
Previously I posted a view template way of adding noto, however I just 
experimented with the following;

 ``Introduction``
<>
 ``Body``
<>
 ``Conclusion``
<>
This approach could be incorporated into a view template, which appears 
only if there is a Noto field or some other indicator.


You still need initialise, and the overhead of the tools visibly may be 
better behind a details widget

If mark does not work on this approach himself, (I urge him to keep it 
simple) but extendable, I can have a go after the design settles down.


Slightly off topic

This points to a reoccurring code pattern that needs to become an easy to 
use solution.

   - A View template that displays according to a condition list a tag or 
   field, or field content
   - The ability to toggle visibility on or off in the whole wiki (use View 
   template tag) or a specific tiddler override
   - A Button that appears on tiddlers according to a filter that sets the 
   condition required to activate the above view template

I have started building one, and all the techniques are known to me to 
drive each new button from a simple definition tiddler, its self created 
with a click.
The only thing that remains is identifying an effective way to generate 
multiple buttons with unique icons without making it a chore.

Regards
Tony

 

> I can give a serious example if you'd like help this.
>
> TT, x
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 01:15:11 UTC+2, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> TT,
>>
>> I shared an implementation of noto where you do not use the macro in the 
>> tiddler, instead it is called from the view template when it finds a noto 
>> field which contains the tag. Of course you can do this as well and it 
>> makes the tag name accessible in the noto field.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>> On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 7:14:00 PM UTC+10, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> Ciao Mark
>>>
>>> *Question: Is The Tag Name Stored Anywhere Other Than In The Macro Call?*
>>>
>>> I.e. any place in addition to <>
>>>
>>>
>>> Reason  I ask is in Inter-working with other tools I'd like to be able 
>>> to pass the tag name, but to do that I'd need somewhere to get it from. 
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> TT
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Not sure.  I got in a mess with unpopulated non-existant tag Tiddlers 
confusing the issue.

I will check out reliability on only extant populated tag Tiddlers & report 
back.

TT

On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 18:48:27 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> [tag[mytag]] should use the list field in "mytag". In my quick experiment, 
> the tiddlers appeared to export correctly to the JSON. They even kept the 
> same order when importing, which I found surprising. To have a complete 
> kit, I suspect that you need to export the tag tiddler as well, because the 
> target tiddlywiki can sort things anyway it wants ... eventually.
>
> Do you have an example where the order wasn't maintained?
>
> On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 1:47:14 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Mark
>>
>> *Question: Advanced Search Filter Order?*
>>
>> A naive and, hopefully, simple to answer question ... In there a simple  
>> "Advanced Search" filter that will accurately list Tiddlers by tag in same 
>> order as list field?
>>
>> Use case. From Advanced Search, Tiddler Commander etc you run filter the 
>> use the export function to create JSON in THAT order?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> TT
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread TiddlyTweeter
I just tried it. Excellent on SINGLE up / down. (Mostly what I'd do.)

But the "Move" is AWESOME, with taking *next few with it* or not, to a 
*destination 
you select*, with options of *before or after*..

Very useful practically. Simple & understandable. In a word: STUNNING.

TT


On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 18:24:19 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> Added the ability to move one item up or down from the hamburg menu. Also 
> the ability to move multiple tiddlers identifying by first line (or 50 
> characters of the first line) of tiddlers. Neither of these move tools are 
> "smart" -- they literally move the tiddlers without regard to the fold 
> level.
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao TonyM

I'm (early) thinking of "docs" that may have several "noto". How would I 
design  a master "template" that on click would spawn the framework, the 
several tag tiddlers for noto and the noto instances that are transcluded?

I think your framework idea is nice. But, how, practically, to do it?

I can give a serious example if you'd like help this.

TT, x



On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 01:15:11 UTC+2, TonyM wrote:
>
> TT,
>
> I shared an implementation of noto where you do not use the macro in the 
> tiddler, instead it is called from the view template when it finds a noto 
> field which contains the tag. Of course you can do this as well and it 
> makes the tag name accessible in the noto field.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 7:14:00 PM UTC+10, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Mark
>>
>> *Question: Is The Tag Name Stored Anywhere Other Than In The Macro Call?*
>>
>> I.e. any place in addition to <>
>>
>>
>> Reason  I ask is in Inter-working with other tools I'd like to be able to 
>> pass the tag name, but to do that I'd need somewhere to get it from. 
>>
>> Best wishes
>> TT
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread TiddlyTweeter
I think its a Good "independent fragment" approach. 

Other ways are not free.

TT
2 cents

On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 18:54:45 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 1:24:49 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> * Question: On indent & Styling*
>>
>> I been trying understand how the indents work in the Outliner Version. Am 
>> I right in thinking its done using styles that indent the content of the 
>> Tiddler? With styles set by the level number set in a field of each 
>> Tiddler? If so its an ingenious approach that gets round the nesting 
>> problem of  spanning Tiddlers (they break). Right? 
>>
>>
> Yes. At every step, knowing I'm not even a fortune 100 company, I 
> tried to keep the approach simple and maintainable, even if the result 
> isn't quite as "dynaworkflowy". Trying to use nested indents would have 
> been problematic, because the software tools I have available (e.g. reveal 
> widget) seem to introduce their own additional paragraph nesting. In fact, 
> I haven't been able to find where all the paragraph breaks are being 
> introduced, so have to squeeze them out using styles.  
>
> Thanks!
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread TiddlyTweeter
I need to describe the issue better.
Not quite there yet.

A dopo, J.

On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 18:57:29 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Well, it's stored in it's own tag tiddler. But you knew that. So, I'm 
> trying to understand exactly how you want the tag to be passed. I suppose 
> the tag tiddler itself could be tagged as "nw-doc-tag" so that you could 
> identify all instances.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 2:14:00 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Mark
>>
>> *Question: Is The Tag Name Stored Anywhere Other Than In The Macro Call?*
>>
>> I.e. any place in addition to <>
>>
>>
>> Reason  I ask is in Inter-working with other tools I'd like to be able to 
>> pass the tag name, but to do that I'd need somewhere to get it from. 
>>
>> Best wishes
>> TT
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Well, it's stored in it's own tag tiddler. But you knew that. So, I'm 
trying to understand exactly how you want the tag to be passed. I suppose 
the tag tiddler itself could be tagged as "nw-doc-tag" so that you could 
identify all instances.

Thanks!

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 2:14:00 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark
>
> *Question: Is The Tag Name Stored Anywhere Other Than In The Macro Call?*
>
> I.e. any place in addition to <>
>
>
> Reason  I ask is in Inter-working with other tools I'd like to be able to 
> pass the tag name, but to do that I'd need somewhere to get it from. 
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki


On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 1:24:49 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> * Question: On indent & Styling*
>
> I been trying understand how the indents work in the Outliner Version. Am 
> I right in thinking its done using styles that indent the content of the 
> Tiddler? With styles set by the level number set in a field of each 
> Tiddler? If so its an ingenious approach that gets round the nesting 
> problem of  spanning Tiddlers (they break). Right? 
>
>
Yes. At every step, knowing I'm not even a fortune 100 company, I tried 
to keep the approach simple and maintainable, even if the result isn't 
quite as "dynaworkflowy". Trying to use nested indents would have been 
problematic, because the software tools I have available (e.g. reveal 
widget) seem to introduce their own additional paragraph nesting. In fact, 
I haven't been able to find where all the paragraph breaks are being 
introduced, so have to squeeze them out using styles.  

Thanks!

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

[tag[mytag]] should use the list field in "mytag". In my quick experiment, 
the tiddlers appeared to export correctly to the JSON. They even kept the 
same order when importing, which I found surprising. To have a complete 
kit, I suspect that you need to export the tag tiddler as well, because the 
target tiddlywiki can sort things anyway it wants ... eventually.

Do you have an example where the order wasn't maintained?

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 1:47:14 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark
>
> *Question: Advanced Search Filter Order?*
>
> A naive and, hopefully, simple to answer question ... In there a simple  
> "Advanced Search" filter that will accurately list Tiddlers by tag in same 
> order as list field?
>
> Use case. From Advanced Search, Tiddler Commander etc you run filter the 
> use the export function to create JSON in THAT order?
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-09 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

Added the ability to move one item up or down from the hamburg menu. Also 
the ability to move multiple tiddlers identifying by first line (or 50 
characters of the first line) of tiddlers. Neither of these move tools are 
"smart" -- they literally move the tiddlers without regard to the fold 
level.

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html





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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-08 Thread TonyM
TT,

I shared an implementation of noto where you do not use the macro in the 
tiddler, instead it is called from the view template when it finds a noto 
field which contains the tag. Of course you can do this as well and it 
makes the tag name accessible in the noto field.

Regards
Tony

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 7:14:00 PM UTC+10, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark
>
> *Question: Is The Tag Name Stored Anywhere Other Than In The Macro Call?*
>
> I.e. any place in addition to <>
>
>
> Reason  I ask is in Inter-working with other tools I'd like to be able to 
> pass the tag name, but to do that I'd need somewhere to get it from. 
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-08 Thread TiddlyTweeter


On Monday, 8 June 2020 11:14:00 UTC+2, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark
>
> *Question: Is The Tag Name Stored Anywhere Other Than In The Macro Call?*
>
> I.e. any place in addition to <>
>
>
> Reason  I ask is in Inter-working with other tools I'd like to be able to 
> pass the tag name, but to do that I'd need somewhere to get it from. 
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-08 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

*Question: Is The Tag Name Stored Anywhere Other Than In The Macro?*

I.e. any place in addition to <>


Reason  I ask is in Inter-working with other tools I'd like to be able to 
pass the tag name, but to do that I'd need somewhere to get it from. 

Best wishes
TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-08 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Mark

*Question: Advanced Search Filter Order?*

A naive and, hopefully, simple to answer question ... In there a simple  
"Advanced Search" filter that will accurately list Tiddlers by tag in same 
order as list field?

Use case. From Advanced Search, Tiddler Commander etc you run filter the 
use the export function to create JSON in THAT order?

Best wishes
TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-08 Thread TiddlyTweeter
Mark S. wrote:
>
> Well, we could certainly make a tool that would rename tiddlers that way, 
> but I'm afraid that it might blow up some documents. Take TT's "Crusoe" 
> document as a case in point -- I'm pretty sure some of those entries would 
> have the same name, and the outcome would be unpredictable. So the tool 
> might be available as a separate entity, but not part of the distribution, 
> since the user will really need to understand backups and the way that tags 
> and list fields work in case something goes awry.
>

Ciao Mark, some observations, then some questions ... 

*Renaming Tools... *Right. But on the upside several tools already exist 
the enable working with renaming and list field management. Yeah you need 
to make sure you backed up, both tiddlers & tag list field, at this time. 
For instance, I did some testing using crude passing of arguments to 
Tiddler Commander that worked well for my use cases. Of course you don't 
need a heavyweight tool like that. I also tested with a tool written by Riz 
that you use to rename tiddlers in batch vis export to JSON then re-import. 
Worked okay for my slrict "Crusoe" numbering. Point is both tests are proof 
of concept of using independent utilities that exist can work with Noto.

*"Document Focus"... *The way I'm using it is to think of it as a "document 
maker". Its shifted my concept of what you can do in T W more towards how I 
actually write.
I did several tests transcluding Noto Instances into a "document template" 
structure. The idea was to have Noto both maintain both the "document 
content" and the "type of document template and styles". In time I give 
another example so this is clearer. Point being is Noto is not just an 
outliner, its a generic "context editor" -- in other words all "fragments" 
are in place as you work. That is brilliant.
 

> Just thinking, maybe what's really needed is a different tag button that 
> would show the first line of text. 


That sounds neat! IF complex rearrangements are needed.

*15 - Moving Controls in Bottom Edit Bar ...*

But, for myself, just *from the bottom edit bar to have an "up" arrow and a 
"down" arrow* (I assume it would work by transposing the positions of two 
adjacent tiddlers in list field?) would be enough.

* Question: On indent & Styling*

I been trying understand how the indents work in the Outliner Version. Am I 
right in thinking its done using styles that indent the content of the 
Tiddler? With styles set by the level number set in a field of each 
Tiddler? If so its an ingenious approach that gets round the nesting 
problem of  spanning Tiddlers (they break). Right? 

Best wishes
TT

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-07 Thread TonyM
Mark

Thanks for considering this. No need to go out of your way. Once an outline is 
captured by any means and naming standards, we can use, read, transform it in 
many ways. I believe the more fundamental a solution the more adaptable it is. 
Also streams is offering post entry title changes. Eventualy I would like to 
allow your two tools share data but I will do it for myself.

A one liner info that explains how the subtiddler s are organised would help 
people.

You have answered questions I had not yet worked out how to ask with this tool.

Love your work
Tony

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-07 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Well, we could certainly make a tool that would rename tiddlers that way, 
but I'm afraid that it might blow up some documents. Take TT's "Crusoe" 
document as a case in point -- I'm pretty sure some of those entries would 
have the same name, and the outcome would be unpredictable. So the tool 
might be available as a separate entity, but not part of the distribution, 
since the user will really need to understand backups and the way that tags 
and list fields work in case something goes awry.

Just thinking, maybe what's really needed is a different tag button that 
would show the first line of text. 

But if the reason that you want to see the text is for purposes of 
rearrangement, I am working on a way to move tiddlers where you see the 
first line (actually 50 characters) of the target tiddler. I also have 
another idea for movement where you don't need to know the tiddler's name. 
But it all takes time.

Thanks!

On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 9:38:53 PM UTC-7, TonyM wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> New from the old thread.
>
> Do you mean a special saver function, or ?? You can already save a set of 
>> tiddlers by saving everything marked with the document tag plus the 
>> document tag tiddler itself. But I suspect you mean something else.
>
>
> Currently if I type in a bullet point, it is saved tagged with the 
> nominated tag, 
>
> For example some points;
>
> [image: Snag_5209dc80.png]
>
>
> and the tiddlers are named in the following form (Using a tag-pill).
>
> [image: Snag_52094178.png]
>
>
> However in this case I would prefer each tiddler to actually be named with 
> the full text in the first line of point.
> This could make it easier to reorder, yes the list field will be big, but 
> should be ok.
>
> My thought is an option to rename any or all points to have the tiddler 
> name from the first line of each point, while the tag will maintain the 
> connection.
> This would allow it to be done after splitting the content entered.
>
> Even better if it could be set to do this every time, and after splitting.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 2:14:26 PM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>> For those who want a drag-and-drop solution for their own tiddlers (MAKE 
>> A BACKUP FIRST!), there's a plugin version of the TW file:
>>
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-plugin.html
>>
>> It just has the basic mechanism -- no documentation.
>>
>> I didn't test it. Let me know if anything major is missing.
>>
>> It's likely that plugin versions will lag behind the development version 
>> due to the extra time it takes to pack up the plugin.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-06 Thread TonyM
Mark,

I see now you may be reliant on the name to maintain structure.

Perhaps this idea is for a different tool.

Regards
Tony

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 2:38:53 PM UTC+10, TonyM wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> New from the old thread.
>
> Do you mean a special saver function, or ?? You can already save a set of 
>> tiddlers by saving everything marked with the document tag plus the 
>> document tag tiddler itself. But I suspect you mean something else.
>
>
> Currently if I type in a bullet point, it is saved tagged with the 
> nominated tag, 
>
> For example some points;
>
> [image: Snag_5209dc80.png]
>
>
> and the tiddlers are named in the following form (Using a tag-pill).
>
> [image: Snag_52094178.png]
>
>
> However in this case I would prefer each tiddler to actually be named with 
> the full text in the first line of point.
> This could make it easier to reorder, yes the list field will be big, but 
> should be ok.
>
> My thought is an option to rename any or all points to have the tiddler 
> name from the first line of each point, while the tag will maintain the 
> connection.
> This would allow it to be done after splitting the content entered.
>
> Even better if it could be set to do this every time, and after splitting.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 2:14:26 PM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>> For those who want a drag-and-drop solution for their own tiddlers (MAKE 
>> A BACKUP FIRST!), there's a plugin version of the TW file:
>>
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-plugin.html
>>
>> It just has the basic mechanism -- no documentation.
>>
>> I didn't test it. Let me know if anything major is missing.
>>
>> It's likely that plugin versions will lag behind the development version 
>> due to the extra time it takes to pack up the plugin.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-06 Thread TonyM
Mark,

New from the old thread.

Do you mean a special saver function, or ?? You can already save a set of 
> tiddlers by saving everything marked with the document tag plus the 
> document tag tiddler itself. But I suspect you mean something else.


Currently if I type in a bullet point, it is saved tagged with the 
nominated tag, 

For example some points;

[image: Snag_5209dc80.png]


and the tiddlers are named in the following form (Using a tag-pill).

[image: Snag_52094178.png]


However in this case I would prefer each tiddler to actually be named with 
the full text in the first line of point.
This could make it easier to reorder, yes the list field will be big, but 
should be ok.

My thought is an option to rename any or all points to have the tiddler 
name from the first line of each point, while the tag will maintain the 
connection.
This would allow it to be done after splitting the content entered.

Even better if it could be set to do this every time, and after splitting.

What do you think?

Regards
Tony



On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 2:14:26 PM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> For those who want a drag-and-drop solution for their own tiddlers (MAKE A 
> BACKUP FIRST!), there's a plugin version of the TW file:
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-plugin.html
>
> It just has the basic mechanism -- no documentation.
>
> I didn't test it. Let me know if anything major is missing.
>
> It's likely that plugin versions will lag behind the development version 
> due to the extra time it takes to pack up the plugin.
>
> Thanks!
>

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[tw5] Re: Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

2020-06-06 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki

For those who want a drag-and-drop solution for their own tiddlers (MAKE A 
BACKUP FIRST!), there's a plugin version of the TW file:

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-plugin.html

It just has the basic mechanism -- no documentation.

I didn't test it. Let me know if anything major is missing.

It's likely that plugin versions will lag behind the development version 
due to the extra time it takes to pack up the plugin.

Thanks!

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