Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody working on FFV1 or QOI support?

2025-12-01 Thread Daniel McCoy via Tiff 
"The performance of compression in libtiff is rather dependent on
strip/tile sizes. Have you investigated modifying strip/tile sizes to
see if more can be gained from existing codecs?"

Also "separate" images might be worth a try, where R, G, and B are in
separate strips rather than stored as RGB.

On Fri, Nov 28, 2025 at 6:32 AM Bob Friesenhahn via Tiff <
[email protected]> wrote:

> I have not heard of anyone working on QOI or FFV1 compression in
> libtiff.  If the work is performed suitably well (according to project
> standards) and there is some assurance of continued support, the usage
> license matches libtiff's license, and there is some assurance of
> development support for some time after integration, the work is likely
> to be integrated.
>
> The performance of compression in libtiff is rather dependent on
> strip/tile sizes. Have you investigated modifying strip/tile sizes to
> see if more can be gained from existing codecs?
>
> Have you tried WebP compression in libtiff? There is lossless WebP
> support in libtiff!  WebP compression should work rather well provided
> that the image is a natural scene.  WebP does not support large images,
> but it should work well if a large image is diced up into tiles.
>
> Bob
>
> On 11/28/25 08:01, Romeyke, Andreas via Tiff wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > For our long-term archive, we are considering switching from baseline
> > TIFF 6.0 to a successor format that can efficiently compress images
> > losslessly. To minimize conversion issues, one option would be to
> > simply change the codec within TIFF. We've seen that "tiffcp" supports
> > lzw, lzma, and zstd.
> >
> > Compared to the lossless encoding in Quite OK Image File Format (qoi),
> > PNG, and especially compared to FFV1 or JPEG XL, the achievable
> > compression rates are suboptimal[1].
> >
> > Therefore, our question is:
> >
> > Is there an overview of which codecs libtiff currently supports?
> >
> > And is anyone already working on integrating qio or FFV1?
> >
> > If not, would such extensions have a chance of being incorporated into
> > libtiff?
> >
> > With best regards
> >
> > Andreas
> >
> > [1] our testset (scans historic monographs) results in ff. lossless
> > compression ratios:
> >
> > tiff/lzw – 94%
> >
> > tiff/zstd – 67%
> >
> > qoi – 50%
> >
> > png – 53%
> >
> > ffv1 – 36%
> >
> > jpeg-xl – 33%
> >
> > --
> >
> > team member “long-term preservation“
> >
> > Saxon State- and University Library Dresden (SLUB)
> >
> > Department 2 (IT), Division 2.3 (infrastructure and digital long-term
> > preservation)
> >
> > Zellescher Weg 18 | 01069 Dresden
> >
> > phone: +49 351 4677 763
> >
> > E-Mail: [email protected]
> > 
> >
> > http://www.slub-dresden.de/  | @slubdresden
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Tiff mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/tiff
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Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody working on FFV1 or QOI support?

2025-11-29 Thread Leonard Rosenthol via Tiff 
So there are two aspects to the embedding…

1 - What do you embed?  are you just using the codec itself, or are you 
embedding the JXL code stream?  For HEIC they agreed on the latter, since it 
means that it can be fed directly to a JXL implementation w/o any transcoding 
or modifications required.  But it leads to 2…

2 - How do you deal with the features of TIFF that define key 
rendering/processing metadata (e.g., resolution, size, colorspace, etc.) vs. 
the same values in the JXL code stream?

Leonard


From: Even Rouault 
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2025 8:47:12 PM
To: Leonard Rosenthol ; Bob Friesenhahn 
; Romeyke, Andreas 
; '[email protected]' 
Subject: Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody 
working on FFV1 or QOI support?


EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.


Hi Leonard,

I may have seen this. But how would that affect JXL-in-TIFF ?   In HEIC, HEIC 
plays the same role as TIFF as a container, right? What kind of alignment are 
you thinking too exactly? The embedding of the JPEG XL codestream into each 
container is a container specific matter. In the instance of TIFF, there isn't 
even a new TIFF tag needed (just pseudo tags to configure the compressor)

Even

Le 29/11/2025 à 19:23, Leonard Rosenthol a écrit :
Even - are you aware of the work at ISO/IEC (JTC 1/SC 1 & 2) to bring JPEG XL 
into HEIC files?   It would be good to align those two efforts, since in both 
cases they are using JXL code streams within a larger container format.

Leonard

From: Tiff <mailto:[email protected]> 
on behalf of Even Rouault via Tiff 
<mailto:[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, November 29, 2025 at 6:55 AM
To: Bob Friesenhahn 
<mailto:[email protected]>, 
Romeyke, Andreas 
<mailto:[email protected]>, 
'[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>' 
<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody 
working on FFV1 or QOI support?

EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.


Hi,

GDAL has a TIFF JPEG-XL codec at
https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/master/frmts/gtiff/tif_jxl.c<https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/master/frmts/gtiff/tif_jxl.c>
 relying
on libjxl. I'll likely submit it to libtiff upstream some day. I had
been waiting for libjxl to go to the 1.0 milestone for that for now.

Even

Le 28/11/2025 à 15:32, Bob Friesenhahn via Tiff a écrit :
> I have not heard of anyone working on QOI or FFV1 compression in
> libtiff.  If the work is performed suitably well (according to project
> standards) and there is some assurance of continued support, the usage
> license matches libtiff's license, and there is some assurance of
> development support for some time after integration, the work is
> likely to be integrated.
>
> The performance of compression in libtiff is rather dependent on
> strip/tile sizes. Have you investigated modifying strip/tile sizes to
> see if more can be gained from existing codecs?
>
> Have you tried WebP compression in libtiff? There is lossless WebP
> support in libtiff!  WebP compression should work rather well provided
> that the image is a natural scene.  WebP does not support large
> images, but it should work well if a large image is diced up into tiles.
>
> Bob
>
> On 11/28/25 08:01, Romeyke, Andreas via Tiff wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> For our long-term archive, we are considering switching from baseline
>> TIFF 6.0 to a successor format that can efficiently compress images
>> losslessly. To minimize conversion issues, one option would be to
>> simply change the codec within TIFF. We've seen that "tiffcp"
>> supports lzw, lzma, and zstd.
>>
>> Compared to the lossless encoding in Quite OK Image File Format
>> (qoi), PNG, and especially compared to FFV1 or JPEG XL, the
>> achievable compression rates are suboptimal[1].
>>
>> Therefore, our question is:
>>
>> Is there an overview of which codecs libtiff currently supports?
>>
>> And is anyone already working on integrating qio or FFV1?
>>
>> If not, would such extensions have a chance of being incorporated
>> into libtiff?
>>
>> With best regards
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> [1] our testset (scans historic monographs) results in ff. lossless
>> compression ratios:
>>
>> tiff/lzw – 94%
>>
>> tiff/zstd – 67%
>>
>> qoi – 50%
>>
>> png – 53%
>>
>> ffv1 – 36%
>>
>> jpeg-xl – 33%
>>
>> --
>>
>> team member “long-term preservation“
>>
>> Saxon State- and University Library Dresden (SLUB)
>>

Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody working on FFV1 or QOI support?

2025-11-29 Thread Even Rouault via Tiff 

Hi Leonard,

I may have seen this. But how would that affect JXL-in-TIFF ?  In HEIC, 
HEIC plays the same role as TIFF as a container, right? What kind of 
alignment are you thinking too exactly? The embedding of the JPEG XL 
codestream into each container is a container specific matter. In the 
instance of TIFF, there isn't even a new TIFF tag needed (just pseudo 
tags to configure the compressor)


Even

Le 29/11/2025 à 19:23, Leonard Rosenthol a écrit :
Even - are you aware of the work at ISO/IEC (JTC 1/SC 1 & 2) to bring 
JPEG XL into HEIC files?   It would be good to align those two 
efforts, since in both cases they are using JXL code streams within a 
larger container format.


Leonard

*From: *Tiff  on behalf of Even Rouault 
via Tiff 

*Date: *Saturday, November 29, 2025 at 6:55 AM
*To: *Bob Friesenhahn , Romeyke, 
Andreas , '[email protected]' 

*Subject: *Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression 
mode? Anybody working on FFV1 or QOI support?


EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.


Hi,

GDAL has a TIFF JPEG-XL codec at
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FOSGeo%2Fgdal%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Ffrmts%2Fgtiff%2Ftif_jxl.c&data=05%7C02%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C55fa6e1ffaf2419bd71908de2f038193%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C638999889276501186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RhvMp0ZYfTup1qTXiXxm6LMwxVonB1nhZils37Cl7ts%3D&reserved=0 
<https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/master/frmts/gtiff/tif_jxl.c> relying

on libjxl. I'll likely submit it to libtiff upstream some day. I had
been waiting for libjxl to go to the 1.0 milestone for that for now.

Even

Le 28/11/2025 à 15:32, Bob Friesenhahn via Tiff a écrit :
> I have not heard of anyone working on QOI or FFV1 compression in
> libtiff.  If the work is performed suitably well (according to project
> standards) and there is some assurance of continued support, the usage
> license matches libtiff's license, and there is some assurance of
> development support for some time after integration, the work is
> likely to be integrated.
>
> The performance of compression in libtiff is rather dependent on
> strip/tile sizes. Have you investigated modifying strip/tile sizes to
> see if more can be gained from existing codecs?
>
> Have you tried WebP compression in libtiff? There is lossless WebP
> support in libtiff!  WebP compression should work rather well provided
> that the image is a natural scene.  WebP does not support large
> images, but it should work well if a large image is diced up into tiles.
>
> Bob
>
> On 11/28/25 08:01, Romeyke, Andreas via Tiff wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> For our long-term archive, we are considering switching from baseline
>> TIFF 6.0 to a successor format that can efficiently compress images
>> losslessly. To minimize conversion issues, one option would be to
>> simply change the codec within TIFF. We've seen that "tiffcp"
>> supports lzw, lzma, and zstd.
>>
>> Compared to the lossless encoding in Quite OK Image File Format
>> (qoi), PNG, and especially compared to FFV1 or JPEG XL, the
>> achievable compression rates are suboptimal[1].
>>
>> Therefore, our question is:
>>
>> Is there an overview of which codecs libtiff currently supports?
>>
>> And is anyone already working on integrating qio or FFV1?
>>
>> If not, would such extensions have a chance of being incorporated
>> into libtiff?
>>
>> With best regards
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> [1] our testset (scans historic monographs) results in ff. lossless
>> compression ratios:
>>
>> tiff/lzw – 94%
>>
>> tiff/zstd – 67%
>>
>> qoi – 50%
>>
>> png – 53%
>>
>> ffv1 – 36%
>>
>> jpeg-xl – 33%
>>
>> --
>>
>> team member “long-term preservation“
>>
>> Saxon State- and University Library Dresden (SLUB)
>>
>> Department 2 (IT), Division 2.3 (infrastructure and digital long-term
>> preservation)
>>
>> Zellescher Weg 18 | 01069 Dresden
>>
>> phone: +49 351 4677 763
>>
>> E-Mail: [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected] 
<mailto:[email protected]>>

>>
>> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slub-dresden.de%2F&data=05%7C02%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C55fa6e1ffaf2419bd71908de2f038193%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C638999889276514786%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIld

Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody working on FFV1 or QOI support?

2025-11-29 Thread Leonard Rosenthol via Tiff 
Even - are you aware of the work at ISO/IEC (JTC 1/SC 1 & 2) to bring JPEG XL 
into HEIC files?   It would be good to align those two efforts, since in both 
cases they are using JXL code streams within a larger container format.

Leonard

From: Tiff  on behalf of Even Rouault via Tiff 

Date: Saturday, November 29, 2025 at 6:55 AM
To: Bob Friesenhahn , Romeyke, Andreas 
, '[email protected]' 
Subject: Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody 
working on FFV1 or QOI support?

EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.


Hi,

GDAL has a TIFF JPEG-XL codec at
https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/master/frmts/gtiff/tif_jxl.c<https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/master/frmts/gtiff/tif_jxl.c>
 relying
on libjxl. I'll likely submit it to libtiff upstream some day. I had
been waiting for libjxl to go to the 1.0 milestone for that for now.

Even

Le 28/11/2025 à 15:32, Bob Friesenhahn via Tiff a écrit :
> I have not heard of anyone working on QOI or FFV1 compression in
> libtiff.  If the work is performed suitably well (according to project
> standards) and there is some assurance of continued support, the usage
> license matches libtiff's license, and there is some assurance of
> development support for some time after integration, the work is
> likely to be integrated.
>
> The performance of compression in libtiff is rather dependent on
> strip/tile sizes. Have you investigated modifying strip/tile sizes to
> see if more can be gained from existing codecs?
>
> Have you tried WebP compression in libtiff? There is lossless WebP
> support in libtiff!  WebP compression should work rather well provided
> that the image is a natural scene.  WebP does not support large
> images, but it should work well if a large image is diced up into tiles.
>
> Bob
>
> On 11/28/25 08:01, Romeyke, Andreas via Tiff wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> For our long-term archive, we are considering switching from baseline
>> TIFF 6.0 to a successor format that can efficiently compress images
>> losslessly. To minimize conversion issues, one option would be to
>> simply change the codec within TIFF. We've seen that "tiffcp"
>> supports lzw, lzma, and zstd.
>>
>> Compared to the lossless encoding in Quite OK Image File Format
>> (qoi), PNG, and especially compared to FFV1 or JPEG XL, the
>> achievable compression rates are suboptimal[1].
>>
>> Therefore, our question is:
>>
>> Is there an overview of which codecs libtiff currently supports?
>>
>> And is anyone already working on integrating qio or FFV1?
>>
>> If not, would such extensions have a chance of being incorporated
>> into libtiff?
>>
>> With best regards
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> [1] our testset (scans historic monographs) results in ff. lossless
>> compression ratios:
>>
>> tiff/lzw – 94%
>>
>> tiff/zstd – 67%
>>
>> qoi – 50%
>>
>> png – 53%
>>
>> ffv1 – 36%
>>
>> jpeg-xl – 33%
>>
>> --
>>
>> team member “long-term preservation“
>>
>> Saxon State- and University Library Dresden (SLUB)
>>
>> Department 2 (IT), Division 2.3 (infrastructure and digital long-term
>> preservation)
>>
>> Zellescher Weg 18 | 01069 Dresden
>>
>> phone: +49 351 4677 763
>>
>> E-Mail: [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>
>> http://www.slub-dresden.de/<http://www.slub-dresden.de/> 
>> <http://www.slub-dresden.de/<http://www.slub-dresden.de/>> | @slubdresden
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Tiff mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/tiff<https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/tiff>
> ___
> Tiff mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/tiff<https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/tiff>

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Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody working on FFV1 or QOI support?

2025-11-28 Thread Even Rouault via Tiff 

Hi,

GDAL has a TIFF JPEG-XL codec at 
https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/blob/master/frmts/gtiff/tif_jxl.c relying 
on libjxl. I'll likely submit it to libtiff upstream some day. I had 
been waiting for libjxl to go to the 1.0 milestone for that for now.


Even

Le 28/11/2025 à 15:32, Bob Friesenhahn via Tiff a écrit :
I have not heard of anyone working on QOI or FFV1 compression in 
libtiff.  If the work is performed suitably well (according to project 
standards) and there is some assurance of continued support, the usage 
license matches libtiff's license, and there is some assurance of 
development support for some time after integration, the work is 
likely to be integrated.


The performance of compression in libtiff is rather dependent on 
strip/tile sizes. Have you investigated modifying strip/tile sizes to 
see if more can be gained from existing codecs?


Have you tried WebP compression in libtiff? There is lossless WebP 
support in libtiff!  WebP compression should work rather well provided 
that the image is a natural scene.  WebP does not support large 
images, but it should work well if a large image is diced up into tiles.


Bob

On 11/28/25 08:01, Romeyke, Andreas via Tiff wrote:


Hi,

For our long-term archive, we are considering switching from baseline 
TIFF 6.0 to a successor format that can efficiently compress images 
losslessly. To minimize conversion issues, one option would be to 
simply change the codec within TIFF. We've seen that "tiffcp" 
supports lzw, lzma, and zstd.


Compared to the lossless encoding in Quite OK Image File Format 
(qoi), PNG, and especially compared to FFV1 or JPEG XL, the 
achievable compression rates are suboptimal[1].


Therefore, our question is:

Is there an overview of which codecs libtiff currently supports?

And is anyone already working on integrating qio or FFV1?

If not, would such extensions have a chance of being incorporated 
into libtiff?


With best regards

Andreas

[1] our testset (scans historic monographs) results in ff. lossless 
compression ratios:


tiff/lzw – 94%

tiff/zstd – 67%

qoi – 50%

png – 53%

ffv1 – 36%

jpeg-xl – 33%

--

team member “long-term preservation“

Saxon State- and University Library Dresden (SLUB)

Department 2 (IT), Division 2.3 (infrastructure and digital long-term 
preservation)


Zellescher Weg 18 | 01069 Dresden

phone: +49 351 4677 763

E-Mail: [email protected] 



http://www.slub-dresden.de/  | @slubdresden


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Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody working on FFV1 or QOI support?

2025-11-28 Thread Romeyke, Andreas via Tiff 
Hi,

 

if I use tiffcp with p=2, zstd and stripes, the compression ratio is 52,6%. PNG 
goes to 52,7%.

 

Mode webp is not useable, because not applicable for 2/3 of my testset.

 

With best regards

 

Andreas

 

--

team member “long-term preservation“

 

Saxon State- and University Library Dresden (SLUB)

Department 2 (IT), Division 2.3 (infrastructure and digital long-term 
preservation) 

Zellescher Weg 18 | 01069 Dresden

phone: +49 351 4677 763

E-Mail:  <mailto:[email protected]> 
[email protected] 

 <http://www.slub-dresden.de/> http://www.slub-dresden.de/ | @slubdresden

 

 

Von: Olivier Paquet  
Gesendet: Freitag, 28. November 2025 18:26
An: Romeyke, Andreas 
Cc: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody 
working on FFV1 or QOI support?

 

Le ven. 28 nov. 2025, à 09 h 32, Bob Friesenhahn via Tiff mailto:[email protected]> > a écrit :

The performance of compression in libtiff is rather dependent on 
strip/tile sizes. Have you investigated modifying strip/tile sizes to 
see if more can be gained from existing codecs?

 

And this is especially true of zstd which supports a huge dictionary. It also 
has multiple compression levels and the default is quite far from the maximum. 
Make sure the correct predictor is set as well. It should have no trouble 
getting smaller files than png in my experience.

 

Olivier



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody working on FFV1 or QOI support?

2025-11-28 Thread Olivier Paquet via Tiff 
Le ven. 28 nov. 2025, à 09 h 32, Bob Friesenhahn via Tiff <
[email protected]> a écrit :

> The performance of compression in libtiff is rather dependent on
> strip/tile sizes. Have you investigated modifying strip/tile sizes to
> see if more can be gained from existing codecs?
>

And this is especially true of zstd which supports a huge dictionary. It
also has multiple compression levels and the default is quite far from the
maximum. Make sure the correct predictor is set as well. It should have no
trouble getting smaller files than png in my experience.

Olivier
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Re: [Tiff] Overview of supported/registered compression mode? Anybody working on FFV1 or QOI support?

2025-11-28 Thread Bob Friesenhahn via Tiff 
I have not heard of anyone working on QOI or FFV1 compression in 
libtiff.  If the work is performed suitably well (according to project 
standards) and there is some assurance of continued support, the usage 
license matches libtiff's license, and there is some assurance of 
development support for some time after integration, the work is likely 
to be integrated.


The performance of compression in libtiff is rather dependent on 
strip/tile sizes. Have you investigated modifying strip/tile sizes to 
see if more can be gained from existing codecs?


Have you tried WebP compression in libtiff? There is lossless WebP 
support in libtiff!  WebP compression should work rather well provided 
that the image is a natural scene.  WebP does not support large images, 
but it should work well if a large image is diced up into tiles.


Bob

On 11/28/25 08:01, Romeyke, Andreas via Tiff wrote:


Hi,

For our long-term archive, we are considering switching from baseline 
TIFF 6.0 to a successor format that can efficiently compress images 
losslessly. To minimize conversion issues, one option would be to 
simply change the codec within TIFF. We've seen that "tiffcp" supports 
lzw, lzma, and zstd.


Compared to the lossless encoding in Quite OK Image File Format (qoi), 
PNG, and especially compared to FFV1 or JPEG XL, the achievable 
compression rates are suboptimal[1].


Therefore, our question is:

Is there an overview of which codecs libtiff currently supports?

And is anyone already working on integrating qio or FFV1?

If not, would such extensions have a chance of being incorporated into 
libtiff?


With best regards

Andreas

[1] our testset (scans historic monographs) results in ff. lossless 
compression ratios:


tiff/lzw – 94%

tiff/zstd – 67%

qoi – 50%

png – 53%

ffv1 – 36%

jpeg-xl – 33%

--

team member “long-term preservation“

Saxon State- and University Library Dresden (SLUB)

Department 2 (IT), Division 2.3 (infrastructure and digital long-term 
preservation)


Zellescher Weg 18 | 01069 Dresden

phone: +49 351 4677 763

E-Mail: [email protected] 



http://www.slub-dresden.de/  | @slubdresden


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