Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread John Ackermann N8UR
Hi Didier -- I have written a bunch of simple programs for GPIB data gathering, using perl and the linux-gpib libraries under Linux. However, the code is pretty straightforward and it should be easy to extract the command strings to send to the counter. From that, you should be able to re-write

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread John Ackermann N8UR
Didier, a few comments embedded below. John Didier Juges said the following on 10/22/2006 10:34 AM: Hi Warner, Does it mean I should divide the 10 MHz down to 1 Hz output and use the 5370 to measure TI compared to it's internal timebase once per second, and feed that to the

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Didier Juges wrote: OK, here is my problem. I do not think it is a unique problem, based on recent mail :-) I have read about the Allan Deviation and I understand the principle, even though the nuances between the 3 basic Allan deviations escape me at the moment, but I am sure it will

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Christopher Hoover
Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, here is my problem. I do not think it is a unique problem, based on recent mail :-) I have read about the Allan Deviation and I understand the principle, even though the nuances between the 3 basic Allan deviations escape me at the moment, but I

[time-nuts] GPS unit for car navigation -OT ??

2006-10-22 Thread xaos
Hello everyone, I have, until now, resisted the urge to buy a GPS navigation system for my car. However, I now have to do some traveling and new and unknown addresses keep popping up. There are several different GPS units on the market and they all look OK (i guess). I just want to know which

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Didier Juges
Hi John, I got zip (does not work either :-) I remember going through something like that a while back on one of my servers, I have no recollection how I fixed it :-( The files look pretty small, can you email them to me? Interestingly, on my ISP's server (Linux too), I have no problem

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread John Ackermann N8UR
Dr Bruce Griffiths said the following on 10/22/2006 07:19 PM: An inexpensive modern time interval counter with a power dissipation of less than 10 watts and a resolution comparable to the 5370 would be useful for such comparisons especially if the experiment lasts several months. I don't

Re: [time-nuts] GPS unit for car navigation -OT ??

2006-10-22 Thread Rob Kimberley
George, I have been happily using a Garmin Quest for about three years now. There are of course newer versions from this manufacturer, who have a very good reputation. Tom-Tom are also very popular in the UK, but have no experience of using them. Good hunting! Rob Kimberley -Original

Re: [time-nuts] GPS unit for car navigation -OT ??

2006-10-22 Thread James Maynard
xaos wrote: Hello everyone, I have, until now, resisted the urge to buy a GPS navigation system for my car. However, I now have to do some traveling and new and unknown addresses keep popping up. There are several different GPS units on the market and they all look OK (i guess). I

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Didier If you are going to use a PPS divider to divide the oscillator frequency down to 1Hz, you will need to measure the inherent jitter of the divider to ensure that it doesn't degrade the measurement resolution. It may be necessary to resynchronise the divided output using a fast D flipflop

Re: [time-nuts] GPS unit for car navigation -OT ??

2006-10-22 Thread Robert Lutwak
How's the timing accuracy? Does it display GPS time or does it have it's own clock? -RL Robert Lutwak, Senior Scientist Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center 34 Tozer Rd. Beverly, MA 01915 (978) 232-1461 Voice

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Tim Shoppa
Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most GPS receivers with higher frequency outputs than 1Hz, phase modulate the high frequency output in this way and the datasheets explicitly indicate this. Thus there would appear to be little advantage in phase locking to the 10KHz signal with

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Tim Shoppa wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most GPS receivers with higher frequency outputs than 1Hz, phase modulate the high frequency output in this way and the datasheets explicitly indicate this. Thus there would appear to be little advantage in phase locking to

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread John Ackermann N8UR
Dr Bruce Griffiths said the following on 10/22/2006 07:33 PM: Didier If you are going to use a PPS divider to divide the oscillator frequency down to 1Hz, you will need to measure the inherent jitter of the divider to ensure that it doesn't degrade the measurement resolution. It may be

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread John Ackermann N8UR
Dr Bruce Griffiths said the following on 10/22/2006 08:24 PM: Reading between the lines on the Jupiter GPS receiver datasheet it would appear that the 10KHz output is phase modulated at 1Hz to realign it to successive PPS output pulses. As the PPS jitters about so does the 10KHz signal.

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Didier Juges
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Reading between the lines on the Jupiter GPS receiver datasheet it would appear that the 10KHz output is phase modulated at 1Hz to realign it to successive PPS output pulses. As the PPS jitters about so does the 10KHz signal. Most GPS receivers with higher

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread John Ackermann N8UR
I really like the 5334s (either A or B; the A is actually a more featureful instrument than the B) and I have five or six of them; I didn't pay more than $100 for any of them. And, most of them have 10811As, so I figure worst case I can throw the counter out and still get my money's worth from

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
John Ackermann N8UR wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths said the following on 10/22/2006 07:33 PM: Didier If you are going to use a PPS divider to divide the oscillator frequency down to 1Hz, you will need to measure the inherent jitter of the divider to ensure that it doesn't degrade the

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread John Miles
You can do a lot worse than straight TTL. Some useful graphs on pages 102 and 103 of Rohde's Microwave and Wireless Synthesizers: Theory and Design. Hint: Look it up at www.amazon.com and you can view those two pages, if you search within the book for the phrase 170 dB. -- john, KE5FX The few

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
John Miles wrote: You can do a lot worse than straight TTL. Some useful graphs on pages 102 and 103 of Rohde's Microwave and Wireless Synthesizers: Theory and Design. Hint: Look it up at www.amazon.com and you can view those two pages, if you search within the book for the phrase 170 dB.

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter: PPS - START delayed 10KHz - STOP Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the PPS signal occurs during the 10KHz burst which was phase

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter: PPS - START delayed 10KHz - STOP Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the PPS signal occurs during the 10KHz burst which was phase

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter: PPS - START delayed 10KHz - STOP Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the PPS signal occurs during the 10KHz burst which was phase

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Didier Juges
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter: PPS - START delayed 10KHz - STOP Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the PPS signal occurs during

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Didier Juges
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter: PPS - START delayed 10KHz - STOP Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the PPS signal occurs during

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Didier Juges
Bruce, Thanks for the reminder. That was my intention. I was planning to use a 74HC74, and whatever dividers I can get my hands on. I am not looking forward to daisy chain seven 7490s, so I will probably try something else. With the D flip-flop, the dividers don't really matter, as long as

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter: PPS - START delayed 10KHz - STOP Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Didier Juges wrote: Bruce, Thanks for the reminder. That was my intention. I was planning to use a 74HC74, and whatever dividers I can get my hands on. I am not looking forward to daisy chain seven 7490s, so I will probably try something else. With the D flip-flop, the dividers don't

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Didier Juges
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter: PPS - START delayed 10KHz - STOP Vary

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Didier Juges wrote: Bruce, Thanks for the reminder. That was my intention. I was planning to use a 74HC74, and whatever dividers I can get my hands on. I am not looking forward to daisy chain seven 7490s, so I will probably try something else. With the D flip-flop, the dividers don't

Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?

2006-10-22 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Didier Juges wrote: Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: In principle this measurement could be made with a