Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Neon John wrote: > Nah, not for this application. A Peltier module typically has a COP of 1. > That is, > it moves a watt of energy for each watt consumed. Thus, for each watt > moved, two > watts have to be dissipated t

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Brooke Clarke wrote: > Hi Bruce: > > Details on your experiment please. > Hole/pipe diameter, material? > Depth? > Delta T at different depths vs surface ambient? > Soil type? > > > Have Fun, > > Brooke Clarke > Brooke Unable as yet to find my data, it was published in some very obscure publica

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Bruce Griffiths
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Brooke Clarke wrote: > Hi Bruce: > > Details on your experiment please. > Hole/pipe diameter, material? > Depth? > Delta T at different depths vs surface ambient? > Soil type? > > > Have Fun, > > Brooke Clarke > Booke I will

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Brooke Clarke
Hi Bruce: Details on your experiment please. Hole/pipe diameter, material? Depth? Delta T at different depths vs surface ambient? Soil type? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.precisionclock.com http://www.prc68.com/I/WebCam2.shtml 24/7 Sky-Weather-Astronomy Cam Bruce Gri

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Bruce Griffiths
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Brooke Clarke wrote: > Hi Bruce: > > I've also looked into drilling a hole (garden hose, 90 deg fitting & pipe > with > end smashed flat to make a nozzle will easily drill as deep as the pipe is > long). Then using a short l

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Don Collie
Thanks for that John. I`ve always wanted to play arround with one of these [Peltier] modules. They can now be bought quite cheaply. I envisage a double oven, with the inner oven heated [to 25 degrees], by conventional means, while the Peltier pile cools the inner oven. This way you could use a p

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Brooke Clarke
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Hi Dick: From what I can Google he built maybe the first parametric amplifier but haven't come across details on the crystal temp stabilization. Do you have info about that? Because of the year involved I think he must hav

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Bill Powell
I doug up and included below a time-nuts email from a couple of years ago on improving oscillator stability, with some thoughts from Jack Kusters, Tom Clark, and Brooke Clarke. Also, there's a good history of high precision oscillators at: http://www.ieee-uffc.org/fc_history/norton.html Regard

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Brooke Clarke
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Hi Bruce: I've also looked into drilling a hole (garden hose, 90 deg fitting & pipe with end smashed flat to make a nozzle will easily drill as deep as the pipe is long). Then using a short length of capped copper pipe at th

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Richard W. Solomon
Sam Harris (SK) did that over 40 years ago. It provided a stable reference for his pioneering work in Moonbounce Communication. 73, Dick, W1KSZ/7 -Original Message- >From: Bruce Griffiths <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Oct 13, 2007 2:44 PM >To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measure

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Tim Shoppa
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY "Don Collie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Has anyone concidered using a small Peltier pile to maintain the crystal`s > temparature. I understand that these devices will heat or cool, so it would > be possible to maintain the c

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Brooke Clarke wrote: > Hi Don: > > They are very inefficient to the point that a system that's supposed to cool > something may heat it because of all the heat generated by the module. > > It takes a huge amount of heat sinking or liquid cooling to get them to work. > > Have Fun, > > Brooke Clarke

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Neon John
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Nah, not for this application. A Peltier module typically has a COP of 1. That is, it moves a watt of energy for each watt consumed. Thus, for each watt moved, two watts have to be dissipated to air. I can't imagine a wel

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Bruce Griffiths
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Brooke Clarke wrote: > Hi: > > Something I've been thinking about is attaching a large thermal mass of > aluminum to the crystal and it's oscillator then surrounding that with > insulation. Then surround that with a thin copp

[time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Brooke Clarke
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Hi: Something I've been thinking about is attaching a large thermal mass of aluminum to the crystal and it's oscillator then surrounding that with insulation. Then surround that with a thin copper layer. Temperature sensors

Re: [time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Brooke Clarke
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Hi Don: They are very inefficient to the point that a system that's supposed to cool something may heat it because of all the heat generated by the module. It takes a huge amount of heat sinking or liquid cooling to get them

[time-nuts] Improving the stability of crystal oscillators

2007-10-13 Thread Don Collie
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Has anyone concidered using a small Peltier pile to maintain the crystal`s temparature. I understand that these devices will heat or cool, so it would be possible to maintain the crystal temparature at , say, 25 degrees celci