Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A heat sink

2009-06-09 Thread bruce
http://www.ham-radio.com/wa6vhs/Test%20equipment/FREQUENCY%20STANDARDS/FE-5680A/fei%205680a.pdf has high quality images of the 5680A and 5650A internal electronics. Bruce Hi, some light might be shed on the heatsink problem by reading the data sheet for the LPRO 101 (Symmetricom) The units

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A heat sink

2009-06-09 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Leigh Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Chuck, This device is a pull from a larger system, probably a cell site. It's clearly designed to be mounted on something, as it has lots and lots of holes around the edge. I suspect there's some thermal management that's missing. The FEI sheet gives

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A heat sink

2009-06-09 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Leigh Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Chuck, This device is a pull from a larger system, probably a cell site. It's clearly designed to be mounted on something, as it has lots and lots of holes around the edge. I suspect there's some thermal management that's missing. The FEI sheet

[time-nuts] FE-5680A heat sink

2009-06-09 Thread Murray Greenman
I think we've all learned from this. Good info about the Efratom unit, and sounds as though we should aim for around 38C with the FEI units as well. The FE-5680 looks to be easier to deal with than the FE-5650, so I'll look into that first. Murray ZL1BPU

[time-nuts] Thunderbolt stability and ambient temperature

2009-06-09 Thread Mark Sims
Well, it's air conditioning season again and I have been studying the effects of the varying temperature caused by AC cycling on the Thunderbolt output (as reported by the unit's internal monitoring messages). The attached image shows the effects of the temperature cycling on the Tbolt

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt stability and ambient temperature

2009-06-09 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message blu125-w8d0e8a08cfbcdcc3e5d3ace...@phx.gbl, Mark Sims writes: Placing the Tbolt in a corrugated cardboard box [...] We have discussed this topic some time back, and I relayed a suggestion from the Danish Metrology Lab: Use an unplugged fridge. Apart from a good air volume and

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A thermal management

2009-06-09 Thread Geoff Powell
In article 2ed501c9e87a$a7a4a850$7900a...@athlon1200, Dave Brown tract...@ihug.co.nz writes Murray et al, The package of both units is clearly meant to be mounted on something-the real question is how much heat sinking would that something have provided? Changing the external heatsinking to

[time-nuts] Thunderbolt stability and ambient temperature

2009-06-09 Thread Mark Sims
I think that using a well insulated box (like a fridge) is probably not going to improve things much with a Thunderbolt. The very modest improvement going from a simple cardboard box (and .17C shifts) to an insulated box (and .060C shifts) seems to imply that we are close to the inherent

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt stability and ambient temperature

2009-06-09 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message blu125-w9e23fdf3e1618c93e603ece...@phx.gbl, Mark Sims writes: I think that using a well insulated box [...] The point for timenuts is not just the thermal resistance, but more importantly the thermal *impedance*: you want to low-pass filter the thermal changes so that they all happen

[time-nuts] For Sale: AVCOM MDM-1575-8 GPS antenna splitter

2009-06-09 Thread Eric Wolf
Sorry my post to the list is not meaningful and is something for sale, extenuating circumstances of life at the moment. Up for sale is an AVCOM MDM-1575-8 GPS antenna splitter, in good working condition. This unit was made for one company who used it for GPS work, and was not a full production

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt stability and ambient temperature

2009-06-09 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message blu125-w9e23fdf3e1618c93e603ece...@phx.gbl, Mark Sims writes: I think that using a well insulated box [...] The point for timenuts is not just the thermal resistance, but more importantly the thermal *impedance*: you want to low-pass filter the

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt stability and ambient temperature

2009-06-09 Thread Tom Van Baak
Adding mass increases the thermal capacitance adding insulation increases the thermal resistance. It is possible to construct an enclosure with a long thermal time constant together with relatively low thermal resistance so that the temperature of a GPSDO or similar device within the enclosure

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A heat sink

2009-06-09 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Murray Greenman wrote: I think we've all learned from this. Good info about the Efratom unit, and sounds as though we should aim for around 38C with the FEI units as well. The FE-5680 looks to be easier to deal with than the FE-5650, so I'll look into that first. Murray ZL1BPU

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt stability and ambient temperature

2009-06-09 Thread J. Forster
The point for timenuts is not just the thermal resistance, but more importantly the thermal *impedance*: you want to low-pass filter the thermal changes so that they all happen in the area where the PLL can cope with them. Thermal resistance is about insulation, thermal impedance is about

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt stability and ambient temperature

2009-06-09 Thread J. Forster
J. Forster wrote: The point for timenuts is not just the thermal resistance, but more importantly the thermal *impedance*: you want to low-pass filter the thermal changes so that they all happen in the area where the PLL can cope with them. Thermal resistance is about insulation, thermal

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A heat sink

2009-06-09 Thread Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU
Yes, thank you to all. I'll go ahead with the heat sink on the bottom and consider a fan nearby. Leigh/WA5ZNU I think we've all learned from this. Good info about the Efratom unit, and sounds as though we should aim for around 38C with the FEI units as well. The FE-5680 looks to be easier to

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A heat sink

2009-06-09 Thread Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU
Bruce, Thank you for this point. I've seen Mu metal competitors but I can't tell what the case is made from. Pretty much everybody I've seen on this has had to make some kind of allowance for getting the RF out. I drilled a hole for an SMA connector and had it exit on the digital half of the