Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread John Miles
Are 4 and 5 regulated? Or is the zener picked to compensate for the VBE drops? Any of these circuits where the output transistor is in an emitter follower configuration will have its noise effected by the load current, since that current directly effects the output transistor

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys

2013-02-01 Thread Hal Murray
rickhar...@gmail.com said: I would like to triangulate a position of a device which moves using 3 fixed positions devices of known location. The idea is to have these operate on 915mhz or 434mhz or 2.4ghz or appropriate frequency. I'd like a range of 150 feet or better and accuracy of 3

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys

2013-02-01 Thread Azelio Boriani
and even a more crazy idea: use a phasing array for the directional antenna. On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: rickhar...@gmail.com said: I would like to triangulate a position of a device which moves using 3 fixed positions devices of known

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys

2013-02-01 Thread Azelio Boriani
Also the fixed stations can not have OCXO? On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Rick Harold rickhar...@gmail.com wrote: To time experts/EE's. I would like to triangulate a position of a device which moves using 3 fixed positions devices of known location. The idea is to have these operate on

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys

2013-02-01 Thread WB6BNQ
Hi Rick, You would do better putting a small GPS receiver in the mobile and transmit with a 2.4 GHz Blue tooth transmitter. The GPS devices can be gotten very small (your thumb would just about cover it up). They are also very light and draw very little power. That would save you two

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys

2013-02-01 Thread WB6BNQ
Hi Rick, You would do better putting a small GPS receiver in the mobile and transmit with a 2.4 GHz Blue tooth transmitter. The GPS devices can be gotten very small (your thumb would just about cover it up). They are also very light and draw very little power. That would save you two

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Sarah White
Bob Camp, Thursday, January 31 11:36 AM (Local NY time): ((...snip...)) With a good enough voltmeter you could carry the analogy one step further and compute an ADEV like number on the output voltage. I suspect that's carrying things a bit far. No, I disagree. That's not carrying things nearly

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Robert Atkinson
Hi Bert, No need to block the DC. These instruments already have DC blocks (and a switchable low current DC sink to hold the line from the exchange) because the telephone line has a DC voltage of typically 48V on it already. For comparison I just use 600 ohm termination and dBm, dBmV can be

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The circuit I described, is (as stated) quiet down to 100 Hz. It's 3 db bandwidth is well below 10 Hz with the 47 uF cap. If you need it quiet down to 10 Hz or 0.1 Hz, you will need to buy a few more caps. It's still not rocket science. For most OCXO or atomic standard testing

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Ulrich Bangert
Linear Technology application note 83 Performance Verification of Low Noise, Low Dropout Regulators holds some interesting information. I am however unsure whether what was low noise in 2000 is still low noise in 2013 Best regards Ulrich Bangert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von:

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Fabio Eboli
Hello, interesting discussion about noise. It's all way over my knowledge, so my contribution to discussion maybe is only noise :) Re batteries I agree with Mark, see below: Il 2013-01-31 06:42 Mark Sims ha scritto: A123 20Ah LiFePO4 cells have an internal resistance in the milliohm range.

Re: [time-nuts] GPS at 60,000 feet

2013-02-01 Thread Dan Kemppainen
I was just surprised it locked at that speed. I figured a handheld unit would not be able to lock at that speed. Looking back on it now, it makes sense it shouldn't have too much trouble. (Once I learned it worked I started to ask about the GPS more. If you ask politely, a lot of times they

[time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread M. Simon
Joe, I'm using that in my low power (150ma) supplies. I add a zener to the base (darlington) circuit for pre-regulation. Since I'm doing a line operated linear supply the fall off of gain with frequency is not  of too much concern. Once I finish testing (I have boards in hand - I need to order

Re: [time-nuts] GPS at 60,000 feet

2013-02-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 1/31/13 1:09 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: I know for sure my handheld Garmin works at 27000 feet, at 530mph... ...I was actually surprised it worked up there. It made me wonder what the actual limits are. What are the limits of your hand held unit or what are the limits of GPS in general.

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi If you use an electrolytic cap on the base (tantalum or what ever) the leakage current will mess up the output a bit. It does *eventually* die down some, but you may have to wait for days... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys

2013-02-01 Thread Stefan Heinzmann
Can the base stations be interconnected via cable? In that case, wouldn't it suffice to have the mobile device send an unmodulated carrier of low enough frequency, and compare the phase between the receiving base stations, taking the (known) cable delays into account? Cheers Stefan Rick

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys

2013-02-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 1/31/13 8:37 PM, Rick Harold wrote: To time experts/EE's. I would like to triangulate a position of a device which moves using 3 fixed positions devices of known location. The idea is to have these operate on 915mhz or 434mhz or 2.4ghz or appropriate frequency. These two type of devices

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys

2013-02-01 Thread J. L. Trantham
Just to make sure I understand the 'ground rules', the three base stations define a plane, unless they are on the same line. Is the mobile device also in this plane? How far apart are the base stations relative to the location of the mobile device? Or, better, is the mobile device 'inside' this

Re: [time-nuts] Loran again

2013-02-01 Thread paul swed
89700 dana and the srs700 has been locked for 10 hours plus. Looking pretty good comparing RB adjusted to gps and 20ns drift will be at least 42 minutes. But just relooked at the drift and it may be much longer. SN in Boston 49db gain 33db margin. HP 3801 is warming up for a direct comparison.

Re: [time-nuts] Loran again

2013-02-01 Thread Stan, W1LE
Still locked onto the Dana/Seneca Loran stations at 8:38 am local. Comparison to GPS/DO is about the same. No new slaves detected. Stan, W1LECape Cod On 2/1/2013 12:30 AM, Stan, W1LE wrote: Fired up the SRS FS700 and auto found the GRI 89700 microsecond stations in Dana Il (master) and

Re: [time-nuts] GPS at 60,000 feet

2013-02-01 Thread David McGaw
ITAR limits are AND. If it is below 50,000 ft OR below 1000 knots, it will work. My Garmin GPS60CSx has always worked on commercial flights at 40,000 ft and 500 MPH. We use commercial Trimble units on our scientific balloons that go up to 120,000 ft (38 km). David McGaw NASA BARREL

Re: [time-nuts] GPS at 60,000 feet

2013-02-01 Thread Lizeth Norman
What are those folks flying GPS on CubeSats using? I do believe they roll their own. Did ask Tom Clark K3IO at the Orlando AMSAT convention this year about the exact topic you gentlemen are discussing. His comment was that there was only the Scud Rule to deal with. Norm n3ykf

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread lists
Ok, but open loop as I described? I bicmos design, there are two common junk buffers. The junkiest (sp?) is going up a PNP and down a NPN. No feedback. You live with the vbe mismatch. Next up the food chain is the long tail pair (diff amp) with emitter follower. With one gain stage, it is

Re: [time-nuts] Loran again

2013-02-01 Thread paul swed
Hello to the group. There is no need for slaves. Quite a while ago there was a slave but it was simply the master faking out a slaves position by delay. That said yes indeed the systems settling in well to the RB ref and I will switch over to the 3801 sometime this afternoon. Fired up the Austron

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys

2013-02-01 Thread Oz-in-DFW
On 2/1/2013 3:45 AM, Hal Murray wrote: rickhar...@gmail.com said: I would like to triangulate a position of a device which moves using 3 fixed positions devices of known location. The idea is to have these operate on 915mhz or 434mhz or 2.4ghz or appropriate frequency. I'd like a range of

Re: [time-nuts] Loran again

2013-02-01 Thread Bill Riches
Anyone locking on Wildwood, NJ - they are still fired up. Bill, WA2DVU Cape May 89700 dana and the srs700 has been locked for 10 hours plus. Looking pretty good comparing RB adjusted to gps and 20ns drift will be at least 42 minutes. But just relooked at the drift and it may be much longer. SN

Re: [time-nuts] Loran again

2013-02-01 Thread paul swed
Yes indeed I can see the local RB and GPS along with the eLORAN all starting to track and the local offsets are steadily decreasing. Great to see. SURE as heck beats the ole WWVB. Will guess long about 5pm local eLORAN will drop for the weekend. It needs a beer. Paul On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 11:09

Re: [time-nuts] Loran again

2013-02-01 Thread paul swed
See my comment above On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Bill Riches bill.ric...@verizon.netwrote: Anyone locking on Wildwood, NJ - they are still fired up. Bill, WA2DVU Cape May 89700 dana and the srs700 has been locked for 10 hours plus. Looking pretty good comparing RB adjusted to gps

Re: [time-nuts] Loran again

2013-02-01 Thread paul swed
By the way I am calling it eLORAN but I think UrsaNav has another name for it. Regards Paul On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 11:28 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: See my comment above On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Bill Riches bill.ric...@verizon.netwrote: Anyone locking on Wildwood, NJ -

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In message 2bf4f4e8c8207ae0f94a7e1a1e63c...@quipo.it, Fabio Eboli writes: Il 2013-01-31 06:42 Mark Sims ha scritto: A123 20Ah LiFePO4 cells have an internal resistance in the milliohm range. [...] Low internal resistance in batteries is an

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys (Hal Murray)

2013-02-01 Thread johncroos
Hello Hal - I spent a lot of my RF engineering career in related areas, including radar, EW, and spread spectrum timing systems. Since the distance is short and the cost is an issue you may wish to consider an analog system solution. Specifically your master station transmits a RF signal that

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Joe wrote: Back when I was in product engineering there was a VCO design that used a superfilter circuit. It consisted of a pass transistor and a filter cap from base to ground. The gain of the transistor multiplied the effective capacitance. I have not seen this configuration since. They

Re: [time-nuts] question for expert time guys (Hal Murray)

2013-02-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi To complete the thought: Three base stations on three different transmit frequencies over a 50 MHz range. Mobile has a local oscillator at say 200 MHz. Filter the incoming frequency range, stuff it into a mixer, filter the output. What's transmitted back gets processed at the base station.

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Fabio Eboli
Sorry, Poul-Henning Kamp, I answered directly to your mail address, I repost it here... Il 2013-02-01 18:09 Poul-Henning Kamp ha scritto: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In message 2bf4f4e8c8207ae0f94a7e1a1e63c...@quipo.it, Fabio Eboli writes: Il 2013-01-31 06:42 Mark

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Max Robinson
Well, I stand corrected. Weren't the TM 500 instruments marketed as low cost? Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Max Robinson
This is a keeper. Note the strong peak at 60 Hz for the unfiltered darlington. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread lists
Well the Tek current probe that goes in the power supply wasn't low cost. They also had a nice bench supply that went in the box. But a lot of the instruments weren't so fancy. -Original Message- From: Max Robinson m...@maxsmusicplace.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Fri, 1

Re: [time-nuts] Loran again

2013-02-01 Thread paul swed
OK beer time came early eLORAN is off the air at 2000 UTC On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 11:30 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: By the way I am calling it eLORAN but I think UrsaNav has another name for it. Regards Paul On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 11:28 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: