Re: [time-nuts] Have 10 MHz need 19.2 MHz

2013-06-15 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
I received this all jumbled up in one long line without any sort of formatting, because the sender's mail client does not use standardized structure -- so I don't know who wrote what: A 74HC4046 can reach 19.2 MHz Be very careful about specs like that and be sure to read all the fine

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for an old french disertation

2013-06-15 Thread Attila Kinali
Moin, On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 14:51:44 -0400 Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: His early papers may be derived from the dissertation, including Non linear effects in piezoelectric quartz crystals (Physical Acoustics vol XI pp 245-288, Academic press 1975). Yes, i have

Re: [time-nuts] GRAIL USO

2013-06-15 Thread Attila Kinali
On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 13:12:52 -0700 Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: Or better, the 42ns PTTI conference paper by Greg Weaver at APL, who had to build them. That would be [2] then? A little question here: AFAIK satelites vibrate a lot. How do they account/compensate for the vibrations

Re: [time-nuts] have 10MHz need 19.5Mhz

2013-06-15 Thread Chris Albertson
Looks like the CDCE913 is the simplest one chip solution. The frequency in the subject line is in error. What is needed is 19.2MHz. So inside the CDCE913 we divide by 25 then multiply by 23. Or said differenty 9.2MHz = (23/25) 10MHz. The CDCE193 is a 14 pin chip that will do the above. It

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative WWVB Spectracom solution

2013-06-15 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message 25AAB11446C04D4897253FDD883547E1@pc52, Tom Van Baak writes: It would be a good project for a RPi (running an NTP client) or an Arduino (using a cheap GPS NMEA+1PPS receiver). If you can spot holes in the design let me know. It seems too simple to be true. NTP shouldn't be needed: The

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative WWVB Spectracom solution

2013-06-15 Thread paul swed
Tom, Yes indeed thats what the phase flipper components are all about (Though simply not added) to the d-psk-r. Essentially the costas loop gives you the 1 and 0 and then you flip an invert or non invert amp. That allows any rcvr to work. You can soft limit to improve the signal for the

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 107, Issue 58

2013-06-15 Thread Paul
On Fri Jun 14 20:13:51 EDT 2013, Gabs Ricalde wrote: As an alternative to the Net4501, the AM335x in the Beaglebone has timers ... I'm finishing the clocksource driver for Linux Which distribution and which kernel are you using? ___ time-nuts

[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 time clocks simple suggestion

2013-06-15 Thread paul swed
As I have been working on the d-psk-r its always been clear to me that a simple non invasive approach to fix the 8170 class clocks existed. Since the d-psk-r has consumed far more time then I ever would have guessed, I would like to offer the approach up to the group. Maybe someone else has some

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 time clocks simple suggestion

2013-06-15 Thread Bob Camp
Hi I believe I suggested this approach back about 6 months ago. There was a significant controversy about my use of the term seems simple. Bob On Jun 15, 2013, at 9:51 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: As I have been working on the d-psk-r its always been clear to me that a simple

[time-nuts] PLL Dead Zone was Have 10 MHz need 19.2 MHz

2013-06-15 Thread M. Simon
The NXP 9046 is speced for zero dead zone. http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74HCT9046A.pdf No dead zone of PC2 - from the above spec sheet PC2 is the phase detector you will probably use center frequency up to 17 MHz (typical) at VCC= 5.5 V That tells you that 19.2 MHz may be good

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for an old french dissertation

2013-06-15 Thread Joseph Gwinn
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:49:11 -0400, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: -- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 08:59:40 +0200 From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re:

Re: [time-nuts] PLL Dead Zone was Have 10 MHz need 19.2 MHz

2013-06-15 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Simon wrote: The NXP 9046 is speced for zero dead zone. center frequency up to 17 MHz (typical) at VCC= 5.5 V Yes, that is what my message said: The 74HCT9046 may be a better choice (no dead zone), but you may need to select parts to run them at 19+ MHz. Did you read it before

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for an old french disertation

2013-06-15 Thread Pieter-Tjerk de Boer
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 08:12:30PM +0200, Attila Kinali wrote: If anyone has an idea where and how i could get a copy (in any form) of Mécanismes non linéaires dans les résonateurs à quartz: théorie, expériences et applications métrologiques par Jean-Jacques Gagnepain, 1972 The French

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 time clocks simple suggestion

2013-06-15 Thread paul swed
Bob no idea actually. But I do have the MSA 8160 rcvr on the bench and simply can add the ne602. Also John Lowe from NIST actually suggested/alluded to it over a year ago before he ducked out of time-nuts. Its one of those fairly obvious answers. Definately not high on my priority list. Its as

[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 grief... Watching the problem...

2013-06-15 Thread Burt I. Weiner
I just uploaded a video to YouTube of my scope display. Others have also made similar videos. You can see it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um8HxRHkkKw Pardon the fan noise. Burt, K6OQK Gang, I took a look at the WWVB signal using a 1:1 Lissajou signal the same way I do for the

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 time clocks simple suggestion

2013-06-15 Thread Tom Van Baak
I see no reason to go crazy writing code. Bob, Too late, see http://leapsecond.com/tools/wwvb_pm.c Can I test it by just rotating (or not) the WWVB antenna with my wrist in sync with a GPS tick (think NRZ encoding)? /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread Mark C. Stephens
Hi Perry, I was browsing a 1988 HP catalogue tonight.. The 8566B came in at a cool 62 thousand dollars new. Wow! -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry Sandeen Sent: Friday, 14 June 2013 2:48 PM To:

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread Robert Atkinson
Hi Perry, While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current and inrush current and can overstress rectifiers and transformers. Not actually a

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread DaveH
That works out to $118,480 in 2012 dollarettes. http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 13:46 To: Perry Sandeen; Discussion of

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread J. L. Trantham
Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread Azelio Boriani
Although off-topic here, the PFC (or power factor correction) is a switching mode front-end used to correct the cos-phi of the otherwise capacitive load that every switching mode power supply is for the mains. On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:52 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: Sorry for the

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread J. L. Trantham
Thanks. Now it makes sense. Sorry for the interruption. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:58 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re:

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread J. Forster
Joe, With the tradition rectifier/filter power is only drawn on both side of the peak of the sine of line voltage, sort of like this: --- --- -| |--| | because the rectifier diodes only conduct when Vsupply Vcapacitor With a switching converter, using an

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread stan, W1LE
PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 time clocks simple suggestion

2013-06-15 Thread Bob Camp
Hi I think spitting the bit out a PC serial port line and running a 74HC series switch would be pretty easy. Less than $10 in parts including the pert board and the time to solder the roughly eight connections. Bob On Jun 15, 2013, at 2:41 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: I see

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-15 Thread Hal Murray
jlt...@att.net said: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? For terms like that, Wikipedia is often a good first try. In this case, PFC goes to a disambiguation page and there are 9 possibilities under. A quick scan finds the interesting one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFC --

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 time clocks simple suggestion

2013-06-15 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The 74HC4053 looks like it would do the job pretty well. Bob On Jun 15, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi I think spitting the bit out a PC serial port line and running a 74HC series switch would be pretty easy. Less than $10 in parts including the pert board and

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure - availability

2013-06-15 Thread Kmec
Greetings Gentlemen! I have been following the thread on HP equipment repair, as I have a bunch of it and am waiting the inevitable day when something starts to smoke. That being said, I agree with the gentlemen that say fixing is better than junking and also about the diminishing

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure - availability

2013-06-15 Thread Mark C. Stephens
Oh that is so sad, Trying to track down parts to find that some scrap metal merchant has melted it down. And to think a surplus dealer would knowingly scrap HP test equipment is just plain sacrilege. All those custom IC's and PROMS m e l t e d . . God help us down under if any of the scrappers

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 time clocks simple suggestion

2013-06-15 Thread paul swed
it does I use that on my homebrew psk modulator. Regards Paul On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi The 74HC4053 looks like it would do the job pretty well. Bob On Jun 15, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi I think spitting the bit out a

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 time clocks simple suggestion

2013-06-15 Thread Hal Murray
li...@rtty.us said: I think spitting the bit out a PC serial port line and running a 74HC series switch would be pretty easy. Less than $10 in parts including the pert board and the time to solder the roughly eight connections. How accurate does the switching have to be? Note that there

[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 is sync'ed to wwvb. Nice to see it again

2013-06-15 Thread paul swed
As I mentioned earlier. Simply built up a AM rcvr using a MSA8160 clock chip and then a inverter clock oscillator with a 60 Khz xtal and some and gates. The spectracom came right up immediately locked the VCO and then decoded time. Sweet. Cost sub $10. Will chicken scratch a drawing sometime

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 is sync'ed to wwvb. Nice to see it again

2013-06-15 Thread Max Robinson
Do the bits coded by carrier amplitude drops correspond to bits coded by phase changes? As I watched the video I was trying to listen for the amplitude changes and watch the scope pattern but I think there were times when there was no correlation. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email:

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 is sync'ed to wwvb. Nice to see it again

2013-06-15 Thread Hal Murray
m...@maxsmusicplace.com said: Do the bits coded by carrier amplitude drops correspond to bits coded by phase changes? No. There are two different encodings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB#Modulation_format -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.