Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread J. Forster
I'm unconvinced Clarke's Law is operative here. A more appropriate model is the Swiss Army Knife... a single tool to be all things to all people. In reality, such a tool or program does nothing very well. Examples abound. YMMV, -John = Any competent engineer could have

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Scott McGrath
Any competent engineer could have told the powers that be that a satellite system based in LEO has a relatively high risk profile from the Universe/hostile activity/spoofing and jamming Yes GPS is/was oversold. Trouble is Clarkes law applies here (any sufficiently advanced technology is

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Lester Veenstra
Exactly what do you mean by ... based in LEO has a relatively high risk profile from the Universe/hostile activity/spoofing and jamming...? Other than a LOS, in a jammers immediate area, GPS is not subject to jamming, and for the critical users, ie, the DOD, very difficult to jam, even in a LOS.

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread J. Forster
I think the largest concern about jamming is for civilian uses, rather than military, mainly because military receivers are designed and built to be more immune. Also, military systems are far more likely to have good grade INS. Furthermore, there are probably a couple of orders of magnitude more

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread bg
Satnav are not LEO but MEO. Which is good - less sv to cover the earth. Less good because distance is higher compared to LEO regarding signal power at earth.  -- Björn Skickat från min Mobil  Originalmeddelande Från: Scott McGrath scmcgr...@gmail.com Datum: 2013-07-30

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Chris Albertson
It is easy to jam a simple GPS receiver. Harder to jam a military receiver. In a conflict a jammer of any kind is pretty much a beacon that says here I am. It is one of the bigger problems of jamming, you have to radiate RF. So either you have to be very close to your target or have a

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Scott McGrath
The atmosphere protects the earth from a lot of stuff the universe throws at us Solar flares , space junk , micrometeors just the usual hazards the space at large has. Inability to service satellites when transmitters or RCS fuel exhausted Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:31 AM,

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Scott McGrath
If you read article the City of London basically has a GPS denial 10-15 minutes daily this covers a couple square miles A lot of people are under the misconception that the spy shop jammers only do a few feet. Reality is most of them are 100-500 mw and blank out at least a square mile A

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Lester Veenstra
What does that have to do with ... based in LEO has a relatively high risk profile from the Universe/hostile activity/spoofing and jamming...? I note the previous correction to your statement, that it is MEO not LEO. Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM les...@veenstras.com US Postal

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Lester Veenstra
Yes. LOS jamming of the civilian code is easy; However whey do you think the use of LEO aids this? Any competent engineer could have told the powers that be that a satellite system based in LEO has a relatively high risk profile from the Universe/hostile activity/spoofing and jamming

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Scott McGrath
It doesn'tIt simply increases the risk that GPS will be made unavailable due to events outside the operators controlHence system risk profile is high Was not so high when LORAN was available as aviation, maritime and timing applications could gracefully degrade to LORAN in the

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Lester Veenstra
Well which is it:? Question: LOS jamming of the civilian code is easy; However why do you think the use of LEO [MEO] aids this? Your response: It doesn't Then you state:It [ from context, the use of MEO orbit] simply increases the risk that GPS will be made unavailable due to events

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX
Don't junk your ADF just yet. On 07/30/2013 11:46 AM, Scott McGrath wrote: It doesn'tIt simply increases the risk that GPS will be made unavailable due to events outside the operators controlHence system risk profile is high Was not so high when LORAN was available as aviation,

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-30 Thread Bob Camp
Hi A sector antenna autocorrelateor should be a pretty useful gizmo for tracking GPS jammers. You have most of the gear already in a cell site. Software patch and away you go. Of course you would need pretty good timing, but that's not impossible …. Bob On Jul 30, 2013, at 7:27 PM, Chuck

[time-nuts] Industrial control systems and IEEE 1588v2 time sync

2013-07-30 Thread Bill Hawkins
Group, Has anyone used IEEE 1588 to synchronize clocks on an Ethernet network? I was involved in the design of time sync for Foundation Fieldbus circa 2000. We needed one millisecond accuracy, so we went with SNTP on local networks. I've just seen an ad for a switch that can do 1588, and looked

Re: [time-nuts] Industrial control systems and IEEE 1588v2 time sync

2013-07-30 Thread Scott McGrath
The only switch I know that supports IEEE 1588 is the Cisco CGS 2520 and it was about 10 k before discount. It's intended for use in smart grid applications NICs are about 500 each from a variety of vendors. Altera makes most of the silicon Sent from my iPhone On Jul 31, 2013, at 12:19 AM,