Re: [time-nuts] Anyone have a working HP-113AR/BR Clock?

Yeah, me too! I worked for that division of HP (02 Frequency and Time) beginning in late 1972, several years after the division moved out of Palo Alto and became the Santa Clara Division. Stuff like the 113AR was 'way beyond my means, of course. I knew a few people who dated from the real early

Re: [time-nuts] Anyone have a working HP-113AR/BR Clock?

Jeremy I will speculate the noise simply was tolerated. At the time these would have been a pretty big to do. It was top line HP after all. Most likely other fans in the divider chains, receivers, scopes competed for attention. But that was a bit before my time. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Jan 5,

Re: [time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!

On 01/05/2018 02:41 PM, Bob Albert via time-nuts wrote: Scott, it's a shame to trash those great counters. I gave away two of them a while back; one is missing a decade counter so I'd be interested in replacing that. The oven assembly is a great unit as well. Plug-ins are nice too,

Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources

Joseph, On 01/05/2018 09:16 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: > On Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:00:01 -0500, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: >> Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to >> If I pass both a sine wave tone and a pile of audio noise through a >> perfectly >> linear circuit, I get no AM or PM

Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources

Hi Attila, On 01/05/2018 12:27 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: > On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 23:34:18 +0100 > Magnus Danielson wrote: > > [About AM noise being of equal power as PM noise] > >> Now, for actual sources this is no longer true. The AM noise can be much >> higher, which

Re: [time-nuts] Anyone have a working HP-113AR/BR Clock?

Thank you for the inputs. (I wonder what the original users of this thing did in 1960?) To quiet mine, I purchased a small rack cabinet enclosure, just big enough for a single 4U instrument, and mounted the 113AR inside with all the remaining space stuffed with Finerglas® house insulation. That

Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources

Hi It can be either. The easy example is a tone that is outside the entire band of the noise. If it is a “real” noise spectrum, that’s never going to be the case. There will always be *some* noise at the tone frequency in a real system. Bob > On Jan 5, 2018, at 2:49 PM, Dana Whitlow

Re: [time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!

Ditto- still chasing a couple of guaranteed good 12 GHz ones at reasonable rates. DaveB, NZ -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dave Daniel Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 09:20 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Ulf - Yes, this question, about the HP 105B, was asked in September 2016. https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-September/100436.html In Europe, it is virtually impossible (RoHS) to acquire NiCad batteries for past decade — unless you are an exempt entity. IF you desire a DIY Build,

Re: [time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!

Scott, Do you have any plugins for the 5245Ls? DaveD Sent from a small flat thingy > On Jan 5, 2018, at 11:10, David Scott Coburn wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have some old HP nixie tube counters (5245Ls) which I would like to give > away to a good home. See the

Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources

On Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:00:01 -0500, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: > Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to > time-nuts@febo.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > or, via email, send a

Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources

But what I'm wondering, because this is important to the discussion, is the tone at a frequency encompassed on both sides by the noise band? Or is the tone outside the noise band? Dana On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > The audio (or RF) tone is summed

Re: [time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!

Worse case pull and keep/offer the boards and the oven. Gets the shipping costs down. Other than the power transistors they are 90% of what goes wrong. On Jan 5, 2018 11:45 AM, "Don" wrote: > Hi Scott > I have two of these counters and just love them. > With the

Re: [time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!

Hi Scott I have two of these counters and just love them.   With the proper 'tuned-cavity' plugins, they can measure into the gigahertz.  Such nostalgia. Unfortunately, I am in Austin, TX.  They are heavy!  Want to meet in Atlanta  hihi. Seriously, ...if you have any left over, with no

Re: [time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!

Scott, it's a shame to trash those great counters.  I gave away two of them a while back; one is missing a decade counter so I'd be interested in replacing that.  The oven assembly is a great unit as well.  Plug-ins are nice too, especially the one that goes to 500 MHz. Those counters were

Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources

Hi The audio (or RF) tone is summed with “baseband" noise. 1/F noise seems to be the flavor of the day in recent postings. The only reason to use audio in the example is that it is really easy to demonstrate things at audio with a sound card. Bob > On Jan 5, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Dana Whitlow

[time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!

Hi All, I have some old HP nixie tube counters (5245Ls) which I would like to give away to a good home. See the attached photo. (Sorry for the poor quality.) Some of them power on, some of them do not. I don't think any of them actually work correctly. They would be good for parts. I am

Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources

Is this an audio tone, summed with audio noise whose spectrum surrounds that of the tone? Dana On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:56 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > If I pass both a sine wave tone and a pile of audio noise through a > perfectly > linear circuit, I get no AM or PM noise

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

I have two Powerex MH-808M for sixteen cells. I have two 105B and I have modified them with a custom connector and holder so that I can remove the cells and charge them in the 808, then put them back, disconnecting the trickle charger. Ian -- ___

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Memory... :) I've induced the "memory effect" in NIMH cells and Nicad, and lead acid. Simply charge to the same point, then discharge to the same depth of discharge about 10x. In the next cycle, discharge completely and you'll see the bump in pack voltage where you had discharged to

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

In a former job I designed battery charging systems for NIMH cells. Some cells will TOLERATE long term trickle, some spec ZERO trickle current. Get a data sheet and read it. Violating that spec, or low quality cells can get you a battery pack that will arbitrarily, and without even being

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Hi Ulf: There's another problem with switching to Ni-MH and that's related to the heat generated when charging them.  You can charge Ni-Cad batteries without monitoring the pack temperature, but with Ni-MH cells you must monitor the pack temperature.  I would suggest avoiding the Ni-MH option. 

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 162, Issue 7

Probably Nickle Metal Hydrite (NiMh.) Much more electrical capacity in the same size cell as older NiCd's.  No memory effect, and currently available in all the common cell sizes, with or without tag's.   The only thing you might have to do, if the charger is time based, is alter the timer so you

[time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Since NiMH cells typically have over twice the capacity of NiCad cells, a C/10 charger will charge them at less than C/20.It's best to trickle charge NiMH cells in the C/30 to C/40 range, but depending on the cell C/20 might be OK. Measure your charge current on a discharged pack and

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

The local BatteriesPlus store rebuilt my 105B pack for about $150 - there was quite a bit of extra labor involved but the pack is completely to spec except it has more capacity than original On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 12:17 PM, Van Horn, David wrote: > > Nicads

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Nicads are still made. NIMH is not necessarily a drop in. While it will work fine in the short term, crude chargers that implement constant trickle like C/10 can be (emphasis) tolerated (/emphasis) by some NIMH cells, and totally out of spec for others. Modern chargers and NIMH is a good

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Ulf A drop in replacement for nicads is nickle metal hydride or NiMh. Nicads are still available but can be expensive. The other comment I would make is the 1970s charging circuits were pretty crude and lead to boiled batteries. If your going to invest in an internal battery you may want to

[time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Gentlemen, I may have asked this question before... I am looking for a modern replacement for the NiCadbattery pack used in the HP 105B. One such 105that I salvaged have been standing on a shelf with thebatteries "happily boiling away". So, what kind of chemistry would be possible to

Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources

Hi If I pass both a sine wave tone and a pile of audio noise through a perfectly linear circuit, I get no AM or PM noise sidebands on the signal. The only way they combine is if the circuit is non-linear. There are a lot of ways to model this non-linearity. The “old school” approach is with a

Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

On 5 January 2018 at 14:21, Graham wrote: > Lulu is currently having a promotion with free postage for those > contemplating ordering a copy of the manual from Lulu. > > Get free mail or 50% off ground shipping! > Use promo code *SHIPIT2018* > Expires Jan 8 at 11:59 pm ET >

Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

Lulu is currently having a promotion with free postage for those contemplating ordering a copy of the manual from Lulu. Get free mail or 50% off ground shipping! Use promo code *SHIPIT2018* Expires Jan 8 at 11:59 pm ET

Re: [time-nuts] HP 58503A question (EFC: Err)

Mitch, Thanks for the screen shot. That means 99% of your 58503 is working; very good news. If you look at the last line if your screen shot (attached), the self-test is failing due to EFC (Electronic Frequency Control), the voltage that pulls the quartz oscillator low or high to keep it

Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 23:34:18 +0100 Magnus Danielson wrote: [About AM noise being of equal power as PM noise] > Now, for actual sources this is no longer true. The AM noise can be much > higher, which is why it can be a real danger to the PM noise if there is > a AM to