Re: [time-nuts] Aging rate of crystals

2008-02-19 Thread Mike Fahmie
Aging is a composite of phenomena sometimes resulting in a negative rate and sometimes in a positive rate (most common). Some causes that haven't been mentioned in this thread are the slow release of stress in the crystalline structure created by shock or temperature excursion, and the

Re: [time-nuts] Aging rate of crystals

2008-02-19 Thread Mike Fahmie
I'm not familiar with the E1938, but the 10811, I believe is one of the small hi stab units that HP put into their higher end counters. It uses a single oven where the 103 and 107 used double ovens. Incidentally, the 103 uses a 1 MHz rock and the 107 uses a 5 MHz rock. -Mike- At 03:27 PM

Re: [time-nuts] Aging rate of crystals

2008-02-18 Thread Tom Van Baak
At the beginning of the E1938A project, I did some humidity tests on the 10811. It was fairly sensitive to humidity. I think I remember being able to get parts in 10^8 shift. ... At the beginning of the E1938A project, I did a bunch of characterization of 10811 oscillators. At the Santa

Re: [time-nuts] Aging rate of crystals

2008-02-18 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist
The long term aging rate is due entirely to the crystal, for all practical purposes, for any well designed oscillator circuit (or even a mediocre design). The aging of the crystal is basically not predictable. It's like the famous saying by J P Morgan when asked what the stock market will do: It

Re: [time-nuts] Aging rate of crystals

2008-02-17 Thread Thomas A. Frank
The best experiment I can think of to prove this is to run the oscillator in a paper bag until it is stable, then trickle a flow of dry nitrogen into the bag for a day or two and watch for oscillator drift as the humidity in the oven drops to extremely low values. It is a pity that I do not

Re: [time-nuts] Aging rate of crystals

2008-02-17 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist
At the beginning of the E1938A project, I did a bunch of characterization of 10811 oscillators. At the Santa Clara Division, we had first class environmental test chambers with heating, cooling, humidification, de-humidification, and nitrogen purge. The nitrogen was also available for fast