On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:54:35 +0200, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:48:58 + (UTC) cfo
xne...@luna.dyndns.dk wrote:
Have you tried here ?
http://www.batronix.com/shop/index.html
Nope, i haven't. These prices look much more sane! Thanks a lot!
Attila Kinali
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:54:35 +0200, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:48:58 + (UTC) cfo
xne...@luna.dyndns.dk wrote:
Have you
On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:40:19 +, lists-ATaFeEbBpG8qDJ6do+/SaQ wrote:
I have the D version. What exactly doesn't work on the logic analyzer? I
haven't flogged that port. The rest of the scope works well. The PC
interface is messy on win 7 64 bit, but as I staed before, China runs on
bootleg
and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:40:19 +, lists-ATaFeEbBpG8qDJ6do+/SaQ wrote:
I have the D version. What exactly doesn't work on the logic analyzer? I
haven't flogged that port. The rest of the scope works well
On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 15:58:10 -0700
Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote:
Almost worth flying to NYC for the weekend from Switzerland and checking in
the scope as luggage on way back..
Yeah.. If i knew that i'd get a usable scope and would get it back in one
piece i probably would do that...
Hi
Having carried fresh baked bread in the opposite direction and teletype
machines as luggage …. you probably can get away with it.
Bob
On Apr 18, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 15:58:10 -0700
Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote:
Almost worth flying to NYC
XY quality:
Many DSO have had slow wfms/sec or update rates.
Its a reason Agilent touts its new fast rates in their new scopes.
Here's a test XY mode youscope test app on an analog, Agilent
Infiniivison and Rigol 1052e for comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxlCoKN4W7c
Mpts on
: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 07:29:00
To: time-nuts@febo.com; time-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
XY quality:
Many DSO have had slow wfms/sec or update rates.
Its a reason Agilent touts its new fast
measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
XY quality:
Many DSO have had slow wfms/sec or update rates.
Its a reason Agilent touts its new fast rates in their new scopes.
Here's a test XY mode youscope test app on an analog, Agilent
Infiniivison and Rigol 1052e
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:27:32 -0400, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
It works well, but one thing that annoys me is a flicker on the screen
at fast (less than a few microsecond) sweep speeds. I emailed Rigol US
about it, but never had a response so don't know if it's normal or not.
My Tek
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 00:22:17 +0200, Attila Kinali wrote:
Then again, the rigol scopes i found at the local representative cost
only 20% less than a Tek or Agilent in the same BW/channel class...
which is kind of unexpected.
Attila Kinali
Have you tried here ?
Good, the HP54720. We have one but, unfortunately, lost the calibration
(backup battery dead). Now it need the HP51717 to complete the calibration.
So be warned not to let the backup battery go flat: replace it trying to
supply, with a diode, the NVRAM.
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 7:01 AM,
, 16 Apr 2012 13:58:09
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: j...@quikus.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
OK. IMO, there is another, perhas a more important
...@febo.com
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 13:58:09
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: j...@quikus.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
OK. IMO, there is another
On 4/17/12 6:56 AM, shali...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree that memory depth is an under appreciated parameter, but even 2,500
points like what's available on the cheap Tek scopes is quite useful.
On the other hand, I had a few LeCroy with 50k deep memories and there are
cases where that is very
On 4/17/12 7:15 AM, Robert Darlington wrote:
I need lots of memory on scopes. A buddy of mine I worked with in the
ultrasound world actually yelled at the Tek product management and
asked if they actually *use* oscilloscopes. The answer was a sheepish
no, and yet they felt qualified to develop
time and frequency
measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: j...@quikus.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
OK. IMO, there is another, perhas a more important, issue memory
depth.
Most digital scopes
I need lots of memory on scopes. A buddy of mine I worked with in the
ultrasound world actually yelled at the Tek product management and
asked if they actually *use* oscilloscopes. The answer was a sheepish
no, and yet they felt qualified to develop the products for the
company.
Yeah!!
Sometime, just for fun, I'd like to get a Tek sales 'engineer' in to demo
his latest, hideously expensive, digital toy and compare the display to a
453 from 1965 on a WW II LORAN-A simulator that works with- gasp- vacuum
tubes.
Just for laughs, of course.
-John
==
On 4/17/12
that you know what you're looking for and can trigger on it :)
-John
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf
Of Jim Lux
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 9:27 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
On 4/17/12
and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
Chinese scopes and menus
In modern asian culture it's a highly valued skill to be able to memorize menu
selections which are deeply nested And many asian designs actually increase the
number
...
Regards,
Roberto EB4EQA
-Original Message-
From: Jim Lux
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:27 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
On 4/17/12 6:56 AM, shali...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree that memory depth is an under appreciated parameter, but even
2,500
Haven't run into that battery problem.. but rented the 51717 from an Ebay
offerer for low $$ in the past.
I simply sent him an email saying, I see you are selling that unit in your
ebay store, can I rent it from you for a week?
And he did..
I did have a power supply go bad, and simply
Apr 2012 08:33:35
To: shali...@gmail.com
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
I also like the LeCroy I have because of the deep memory, but I also find the
advanced trigger options are equally important in capturing many events.
Thomas Knox
To: j...@quikus.com; time-nuts@febo.com
From
Right. I'll try to do the same: locating a 54717 to rent.
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:52 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote:
Haven't run into that battery problem.. but rented the 51717 from an Ebay
offerer for low $$ in the past.
I simply sent him an email saying, I see you are selling that unit in
On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 01:01:49 -0400 (EDT)
saidj...@aol.com wrote:
It's a bit more than a Rigol, but for around $2200 you can get the
mainframe, two 21A plug ins, three FET probes, and as a side-feature the use
as a
boat anchor..
The problem for me is, that those are not available in
On 4/17/12 7:55 AM, John Lofgren wrote:
One feature of the Agilent and Rohde scopes (maybe Tek, too?) that can help in
some situations is segmented memory. It allows you to capture periodic or
random events with the full sample rate but to ignore all the dead time between
events. For each
Timestamp is good, but ping-pong circular buffers let you look at
precoursers to the trigger event if any, and loads one buffer at a time
to mass storage with accompanying metadata, including the timestamp.
Jim Lux
On 4/17/12 7:55 AM, John Lofgren wrote:
One feature of the Agilent and Rohde
You can buy Rigol from Chinese vendors on ebay. It doesn't pay to do
this in the US since they are well distributed, but I have read posts on
sci.engineering.design about direct from China purchases.
On 4/17/2012 3:22 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 01:01:49 -0400 (EDT)
Almost worth flying to NYC for the weekend from Switzerland and checking in the
scope as luggage on way back..
Sent From iPhone
On Apr 17, 2012, at 15:22, Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 01:01:49 -0400 (EDT)
saidj...@aol.com wrote:
It's a bit more than a Rigol,
John
I wonder what that same engineer would think when I used to link 2 453's
together when trouble shooting problems on and optical character reader
using a crt and pmt's to scan the document.
Pardon my ignorance but what is deep memory? Please have mercy, I come
from the days of 64k was
John
I wonder what that same engineer would think when I used to link 2 453's
together when trouble shooting problems on and optical character reader
using a crt and pmt's to scan the document.
A Flying Spot scanner is entirely legitimate. I'd use a 600 series monitor
though. There ia a Dutch
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:42:31 +
li...@lazygranch.com wrote:
Sadly, the last scope I bought was a Chinese Rigol. (I do have real
scopes too.) It is getting to the point where Rigol and Instek will make
buying boat anchors a thing of the past.
What's the quality of those chinese scopes?
I
What's the quality of those chinese scopes?
http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2012-January/061925.html
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe,
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 09:46:27AM +0200, Attila Kinali wrote:
Sadly, the last scope I bought was a Chinese Rigol. (I do have real
scopes too.) It is getting to the point where Rigol and Instek will make
buying boat anchors a thing of the past.
What's the quality of those chinese scopes?
I often smile secretly at those who tout the latest asian stuff. It may be
small, light, and look like a 'puter, but it doesn't compare for bench use
to a Tek 7000 series similar vintage portables.
Going through layer after layer of ever more obtuse menus is just not
'user friendly' to me. Maybe
I have the latest and greatest from both Tek and Agilent at work,
designed and made right here in the states. They suffer from menu-itis
just like the chinese stuff does. My Tek DSA 72004 at work is a
complete PITA to use unless I have the mouse and keyboard attached. In
my opinion, it's just how
On 4/16/12 8:19 AM, Eric Garner wrote:
I have the latest and greatest from both Tek and Agilent at work,
designed and made right here in the states. They suffer from menu-itis
just like the chinese stuff does. My Tek DSA 72004 at work is a
complete PITA to use unless I have the mouse and
2012 08:19:58 -0700
From: garn...@gmail.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
I have the latest and greatest from both Tek and Agilent at work,
designed and made right here in the states. They suffer from menu-itis
just like the chinese
On 04/16/2012 03:46 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
What's the quality of those chinese scopes?
I have one of the Rigol 2 channel 100 MHz 1GHz sampling rate scopes.
Can't recall the model number. It's the one that either HP or Tek
private labels.
It is superb. It was with great sadness that I
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
I have the latest and greatest from both Tek and Agilent at work,
designed and made right here in the states. They suffer from menu-itis
just like the chinese stuff does. My Tek DSA 72004 at work
In message 4f8c3ecd.1080...@neon-john.com, NeonJohn writes:
There is a rumor that one also needs an analog scope.
Where analog scopes generally win is in X-Y mode, most digitals I've
seen suck at that.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP
...@febo.com wrote:
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:46:27 +0200
From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch
To: li...@lazygranch.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
Message-ID: 20120416094627
Apr 2012 13:23:08 +0200
From: Andrea Baldoni erm1ea...@ermione.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
Message-ID: 20120416112308.ga20...@sol.ermione.com
Content-Type: text/plain
j...@quikus.com said:
Going through layer after layer of ever more obtuse menus is just not 'user
friendly' to me. Maybe it is to the designers, because they are used to a
10,000+ character alphabet?
How much of that is because you want to use fancy features that didn't even
exist on older
-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:46:27 +0200
From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch
To: li...@lazygranch.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
Message-ID
j...@quikus.com said:
Going through layer after layer of ever more obtuse menus is just not
'user
friendly' to me. Maybe it is to the designers, because they are used to
a
10,000+ character alphabet?
How much of that is because you want to use fancy features that didn't
even exist on
, Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
Message-ID:20120416094627.f245ebdfd5df7305dd528...@kinali.ch
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:42:31 +
li...@lazygranch.com wrote
On 4/16/2012 1:47 PM, Marvin Gozum wrote:
At eevblog.com forum Chinese scopes are a daily discussion for over 3 years.
In summary, in the= 100 MHz level they are very cost effective but there are
better and worse. Rigol, Owon and Hantek are on par while Atten and Uni-T are
consistently rated
Interesting read but have not figured out the MIT loran thread part of the
header. This is about chinese scopes
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 2:27 PM, John Ackermann N8UR j...@febo.com wrote:
On 4/16/2012 1:47 PM, Marvin Gozum wrote:
At eevblog.com forum Chinese scopes are a daily discussion for
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
I would actually like to know why many seem to feel that a 500 MHz analog
'scope is not good enough for what you really do in your lab?
Well... if i had a 500MHz analog scope, i wouldnt want anything better..
ok, well
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 17:47:37 +
Marvin Gozum marvin.go...@jefferson.edu wrote:
At eevblog.com forum Chinese scopes are a daily discussion for over 3 years.
In summary, in the = 100 MHz level they are very cost effective but
there are better and worse. Rigol, Owon and Hantek are on par
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:32:07 -0400
paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Interesting read but have not figured out the MIT loran thread part of the
header. This is about chinese scopes
This is because i forked of the MIT loran thread. Ie i replied to a mail
in the MIT loran thread that
IMO, the place you really need 2-4 channels is logic analyzers, not 'scopes.
YMMV,
-John
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
I would actually like to know why many seem to feel that a 500 MHz
analog
'scope is not good enough for
I just can't help it. I like moving the mouse pointer over the slider
and clicking or moving or just typing in a value. My latest scope
(Bitscope)is from Australia, cost $250 inflated $ and all functions are
done via PC. In addition, there is a dll if I want to roll my own app,
and a suite of apps
Alas, those are the UI issues I suggested in my post, fonts is one of them,
there aren't any others in the 1000s series. You can change the 'skins' in the
utility menu. Fonts are one advantage of Owon or Hantek, plus they offer
larger LCDs.
The flicker is from the slow sampling rate at
Apr 2012 10:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
Message-ID: 56387.12.6.201.2.1334599156.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com
Content-Type
I'd have a hard time doing a lot of what I do with an analog scope. I
have a lot of logic running at high frequency, and find myself
triggering on single pulse events that happen infrequently. The
advanced triggering options of digital scopes make seeing these events
possible. Just the pulse
...@febo.com wrote:
--
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
Message-ID
I would actually like to know why many seem to feel that a 500 MHz analog
'scope is not good enough for what you really do in your lab?
Older 'scopes didn't NEED to re-allocate memory, or use peak modes to
avoid sampling artifacts.
I can think of 3 reasons why I like digital scopes:
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 16, 2012, at 11:03 AM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
I often smile secretly at those who tout the latest asian stuff. It may be
small, light, and look like a 'puter, but it doesn't compare for bench use
to a Tek 7000 series similar vintage portables.
Going
Chinese scopes and menus
In modern asian culture it's a highly valued skill to be able to memorize menu
selections which are deeply nested And many asian designs actually increase the
number of menus to cater to this
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 16, 2012, at 11:03 AM, J. Forster
That simply is not the case with the Rigol scope. I was able to use it
without opening the manual.
On 4/16/2012 4:33 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
Chinese scopes and menus
In modern asian culture it's a highly valued skill to be able to memorize menu
selections which are deeply nested And many
Ah! That explains inscruitable VCR menus.
-John
===
Chinese scopes and menus
In modern asian culture it's a highly valued skill to be able to memorize
menu selections which are deeply nested And many asian designs actually
increase the number of menus to cater to this
Sent
IMO, a good UI should be entirely obvious. I learnt to use a Tek 503 in
about 1963. Everything after that has been obvious, until the
'puter'scopes.
The problem with nested menus is knowing where the dang thing you want is,
or worse, that some setting or other even exists.
Have you explored all
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 05:51:13PM +, Marvin Gozum wrote:
FWIW the 3000 series Agilents were rebadged Rigols. The newer entry levels
to mid-range scopes are now all designed and built by Agilent in their
Malaysia plant.
This means two things: I now know why the overall quality is really
Does anyone remember the HP 1980B Digital O'scope? This had to be the
worst scope UI ever. There was only one knob and buttons for everything
else.
Mike
On 4/16/2012 7:04 PM, J. Forster wrote:
IMO, a good UI should be entirely obvious. I learnt to use a Tek 503 in
about 1963. Everything
Ah but a UI is as much a cultural thing as technical we all learned systems
which valued a interface which visually displayed all parameters both set and
ranges on individual controls.
In Asia where rote memorization and Obedience is valued uses overloaded
controls with deep menus. If you
- Original Message -
From: gary li...@lazygranch.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
That simply is not the case with the Rigol scope. I was able to use
Yep and sounded like bbs on a tin roof with all the relays in the thing!
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 16, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Michael Blazer mbla...@satx.rr.com wrote:
Does anyone remember the HP 1980B Digital O'scope? This had to be the worst
scope UI ever. There was only one knob and buttons
You may be onto something w/ the cultural thing.
In the US, we buy a toy and just expect it to work right out of the package.
In asia, they might actually read the instructions before unpacking the
hardware.
Have you ever read the user's manual for your SW? I certainly have not,
beyond looking
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
That simply is not the case with the Rigol scope. I was able to use it
without opening the manual.
So quick, without looking at the screen, select channel 2 ground
reference.
I can do that anytime with the good ol' Tek 465. Guess I will never like
On Apr 16, 2012, at 10:23 PM, J. Forster wrote:
To bring this full circle, a friend bought a very clean, working 465 for
$50 at MIT.
I passed on a clean 454 for $35; I was sorely tempted, but other items had
priority in my budget.
Didn't see any 7000-series scopes, and not too much in the
To bring this full circle, a friend bought a very clean, working 465 for $50
at MIT.
Did that include probes? :)
Good probes are probably worth more than that even without the scope.
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
Hi guys,
I am very partial to the HP Denali 54720D scope which is available on Ebay
in varius forms for around $1500.
This $50K+ when-new scope is very easy to use, has many low cost plug ins,
8GS/s with up to 2GHz Bandwidth plug ins available, and the amazing 54701A
FET probe. Support
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