Beware, programmers have turned to screaming, blithering idiots with bits of
their brains
oozing out all of their orifices just by glancing at that page.
Worse than writing a Web Server in the language BF? The B stands
for Brain, and I'm not going to put the F on a family oriented list
and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I want a good micro-controller
That is a highly language dependent metric. I can't see this applying to
assembly. I spend a lot of time coding Perl at work, and I shudder to think
what would happen if this was part of a coding standard. My
:26
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I want a good micro-controller
That is a highly language dependent metric. I can't see this
applying to assembly. I spend a lot of time coding Perl at
work, and I shudder to think what would happen
Somewhere out there is a complete Fortran compiler written in APL that fits on
a single 8.5x11 inch sheet of paper... Beware, programmers have turned to
screaming, blithering idiots with bits of their brains oozing out all of their
orifices just by glancing at that page.
APL..
Maybe they're talking about things like the famous 6000 lines of ECAP in
FORTRAN IV done in APL in 600 lines by a grad student, etc.
(not surprising.. ECAP is lots of matrix math, which is VERY dense in APL..
Mind you, today Matlab would do almost the same)
See
Hi Chuck:
The Harvard architecture used in the PIC has a number of advantages when
compared to the more common Von Neumann architecture, speed being of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_architecture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_architecture
A not uncommon problem with Von
On Sep 4, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:
For
example you should be able to print the program so that each module
fits on a
one side of a single sheet of paper.
That is a highly language dependent metric. I can't see this
applying to assembly. I spend a lot of time coding
Hi Robert:
Yes it applies to assembly. I have 100+ page PIC programs that meet this
requirement. You might think about span of control to see how you can do it.
Microchip introduced a bug into their assembler some time ago and it is not
able to print a PAGE (form feed) assembler directive.
Wow... printing a listing... how quaint. I haven't done that since well into
the last millenium (egad, probably 20+ years ago). And I'm an old fogey that
lives in the Land of the Obsolete.
Come to think of it, I actually punched a program out on paper tape (well, OK,
mylar tape) long
wje wrote:
As the one who made the first comment about not liking the PIC, I'll
give you my reasons. Yes, they are philosophical, even religious. I'm
also distinguishing between microprocessors (this discussion) and other
variants, such as DSPs, FPLDs, etc.
First, I've used a very large
If you want beautiful hardware, there is absolutely nothing more beautiful
than the HP9100A and HP-9100B calculators. Not an IC in them (OK a couple of
op amps in the card reader), and VERY few transistors, very fast. Stroke CRT
display, mag card reader, external data bus, core memory.
I still insist
a computer isn't a real computer without blinking lights.
So you will love the Thinking Machines CM computers... ;)
Regards,
Javier
--
Javier HerreroEMAIL: [EMAIL
In a message dated 16/08/2008 01:11:09 GMT Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The PIC... I have no nice words for the PIC. It's a CPU architecture
kept alive by Donald Rumsfeld himself (He was the CEO of G.I. back in
the '70's), and surely he must have made a deal with the Devil
As the one who made the first comment about not liking the PIC, I'll
give you my reasons. Yes, they are philosophical, even religious. I'm
also distinguishing between microprocessors (this discussion) and other
variants, such as DSPs, FPLDs, etc.
First, I've used a very large number of
On Aug 16, 2008, at 5:28 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Keeping it secular, what's with the PIC bashing?
Surely it's a case of horses for courses, and there's been enough
successful
commercial, as well as hobby, products based on PICs to suggest
you might be
just a wee bit out of
Having spent 30 years programming things, let me just add this:
The original PIC chips have a strange software architecture, but
it uses very little silicon real-estate, which is why we suddenly
could program things in DIP-8 format.
If that is your business, they're not bad for the job.
A good
You certainly don't need formal training to be a good programmer; I've
seen plenty of code from CS grads that's terrible, and very nice code
from art majors.
In my book, a good program is one one that's organized logically, well
documented, and performs the job it was designed to
That is an interesting thread. So I feel like I have to add my $0.02
I am a casual programmer. I got into programming when I had to, because it
was, at one time, the path of least resistance for something I wanted to do.
I am otherwise an EE. Today, I spend my time 50/50 doing hardware design and
Hi all,
I'm a lurker and decided to stick my neck out a little. I, too started
out as a hardware engineer. In this case real hardware - I did
structural analysis of nuclear components. That was a few lifetimes ago.
I'm doing software now.
I'm in agreement with the comments about Basic being
Begin rant {
I have been programming stuff since 1970 (IBM1130 in high school). I have
programmed well over 100 different machines in far more than that many
languages. You would be hard pressed to find a machine architecture/real
lanuage that I have not used. I also have an EE degree and
Well, yes, it was. The first computer I actually owned was a PDP-8,
essentially stolen in pieces from the DEC scrapyard. Core memory, who
would have imagined that it would actually work? I mean, you could
actually see the bits. And it had blinking lights, too. I still insist
a
Of Robert Vassar
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:25 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I want a good micro-controller
Good grief! That's not a microcontroller! :-)
I like the MCS-51 family, but they're kind of goofy to
program in C
Vassar
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:08 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I want a good micro-controller
Didier,
Goofy is certainly an inappropriate engineering term. As I
see it, the MCS-51 is ill suited to programming with a C
Robert Vassar wrote:
The PIC... I have no nice words for the PIC. It's a CPU architecture
kept alive by Donald Rumsfeld himself (He was the CEO of G.I. back in
the '70's), and surely he must have made a deal with the Devil to
make it as successful as it is. How's that for a
Good grief! That's not a microcontroller! :-)
I like the MCS-51 family, but they're kind of goofy to program in C,
and 8-bit. Upside, lots of vendors variants, including the really
nice SiLabs mixed signal chips made here in Austin. AVR is much
nicer to code in C, and has great
Robert Vassar wrote:
Good grief! That's not a microcontroller! :-)
I like the MCS-51 family, but they're kind of goofy to program in C,
and 8-bit. Upside, lots of vendors variants, including the really
nice SiLabs mixed signal chips made here in Austin. AVR is much
nicer to
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I want a good micro-controller
Good grief! That's not a microcontroller! :-)
I like the MCS-51 family, but they're kind of goofy to
program in C, and 8-bit. Upside, lots of vendors variants
Bruce,
Yes that's exactly my plan. No GPS and designed for field use. A halfway
decent crystal with interpolation from 1 PPS timestamps should provide
decent results. And anything else I can dream up.
Bottom line is I need to know which micro-controller to embrace.
Thanks Didier for your
: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:06 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I want a good micro-controller
Bruce,
Yes that's exactly my plan. No GPS and designed for field use. A halfway
decent crystal with interpolation from 1 PPS timestamps should provide
PROTECTED] [[2]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Palfreyman
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:06 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I want a good micro-controller
Bruce,
Yes that's exactly my plan. No GPS and designed for field use. A halfway
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I want a good micro-controller
Bruce,
Yes that's exactly my plan. No GPS and designed for field use. A halfway
decent crystal with interpolation from 1 PPS timestamps should provide
decent results. And anything else I
Luis Cupido escribió:
There are any number of
choices, including the PIC line, which everyone but me seems to love.
Bill,
You're not alone ;-)
Luis Cupido.
ct1dmk.
I'm with both of yours... This is a recurrent discussion here, and there
are some deep PIC lovers... but once I've used an
Well, I'm particularly fond of the MegaDonkey from mega-donkey.com It does
everything I want a microcontroller to do (it should, I designed it). Atmel
ATMEGA2561, 256K flash, 8K RAM, LCD 160x80 graphics touchscreen display,
two serial ports, IIC ports, A/D ports, lots of I/O pins,
Mark Sims wrote:
Well, I'm particularly fond of the MegaDonkey from mega-donkey.com It does
everything I want a microcontroller to do (it should, I designed it). Atmel
ATMEGA2561, 256K flash, 8K RAM, LCD 160x80 graphics touchscreen display,
two serial ports, IIC ports, A/D ports,
The URL works fine from here.
Pete
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There are any number of choices, including the PIC line, which
everyone but me seems to love.
Many years ago, Microchip was friendly to hobbyists so they collected a big
fan club.
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
It needs to drive a display of some form (standard LCD is fine but
other options would be good) and since nearly all my references are
based on 10MHz it would be nice if it could be clocked at that speed.
I used to program the Acorn Achimedes and so ARM would be nice and
since I'm a 20 year
Hello Hal,
The MegaDonkey can be programmed in one of three ways:
1) the on board bootloader via either of the onboard RS-232 ports (or use a
USB-RS232 dongle). The bootloader is VERY fast (over 10Kb/sec... about as fast
as the chip can write it's flash memory). One neat feature of the
At 03:04 PM 8/13/2008 , Mark Sims wrote:
approach. Atmel's programmers can be a bit cumbersome and finicky about
establishing connections to their processors.
No kidding! I'm hacking on the new HP 20B financial calculator (think of
it as a $40 AT91SAM7L128 demo board), and that SAMBA program
Another view !
I found myself going in another direction recently...
PC104 :-)
...
Designing a board for a really small think, one's
favorite either PIC 51's ATmel freescale or whatever
seems to be fine.
A small demo board or existing PCB from some vendors
seems fine to me also.
but when it
any ARM7 outperforms the best PIC in price and performance :)
http://beagleboard.org/
Get them from DigiKey, $149.
http://dkc1.digikey.com/us/mkt/beagleboard.html
The USB-powered Beagle Board is a low-cost, fan-less single board
computer utilizing Texas Instruments' OMAP3530 [ARM]
Jim Palfreyman wrote:
Hi Folks,
Well I have a nice idea in my head for a lunar occultation timer. Basically
it's a normal clock that accepts a push button click and records the UTC of
the events. Multiple events can be recorded and displayed back. The time
must be settable and could also
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