[time-nuts] Question on HP5359 Time Synthesizer
Gentlemen, some time ago I had the possibility to buy a surplus HP5359 Time Synthesizer. As far as I can judge from my measurements with a HP5370 and a SR620 the two delays that are generated inside the box with high precision are ok and completely within the specs, which is the most important feature for me. There is however one annoying fact: If I use the instrument in frequency or period mode, where the negative slope of the second delay generator is used to trigger the first delay generator in order to generate a repetitive waveform, I notice that a few moments after I have pressed the calibration button (which should adjust everything automatically) the frequency of the repetitive waveform will change and drift by an amount of some 100 Hz up to a few kHz so that my counter may read 996 kHz after a few minutes with the drift getting smaller over time as the device warms up. I have first thought that this effect is due to a defective 10811 in the box but the effect is the same with an externally supplied standard frequency. Well, the thing is: If one reads the manual carefully he will find out that there is no spec about frequency stability to be found anwhere in it! On the other hand the manual says to check the trigger assembly in case of coarse overall timing errors. The trigger assembly is the point where the negative slope of the second delay generator is feed back into the trigger circuit to make the waveform repetitive. Am I complaining at something completely Ok or should I have a deeper look to the trigger circuits? Hopefully one of you 5370 adepts can give some explanation. Ulrich Bangert www.ulrich-bangert.de Ortholzer Weg 1 27243 Gross Ippener P.S. While I am writing this the drift rate has reduced to abt 1 HZ / sec. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Thunderbolt meets ntpd
Does anybody have their Thunderbolt working directly with ntpd? The documentation for ntpd says the Palisade driver has been updated to work with the Thunderbolt. It has a config option (mode 2) to use 8N1 and a few other changes. I haven't looked carefully at the code. I'm pretty sure my Thunderbolt is working correctly. On startup, the 10 MHz reads high by by 1E-7. If I put the antenna in a good-enough location and/or get lucky on the satellite positions, and/or wait long enough, it locks on and then the 10 MHz output alternates between 1.00E+07 and 9.9E+06 But ntpd doesn't see any valid data or I don't have it setup right. I expect I can debug it, but why bother if somebody else has already done the work. I don't have any Windows boxes to try Tboltmon.exe. Does anybody have any Linux code to print the stuff it's sending? If not, I'll probably have something soon. How many different versions of Thunderbolt firmware are there and/or is there anything interesting about whatever is in the units we have? -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt meets ntpd
I think Fer is still an active maintainer on the tbolt work he did... -- Harlan Stenn [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ntpforum.isc.org - be a member! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt meets ntpd
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Hal Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody have any Linux code to print the stuff it's sending? If not, I'll probably have something soon. 1) dig around on trimble.com - there's a link to iQSource.zip which may be useful 2) rip some code from gpsd - we can decode a fair number of the packets, and there's a lot of machinery you can reuse. I think I ordered early enough that sometime in the coming weeks a thunderbolt will be headed my way, after that i can see about making gpsd do the right things. already i know i need to do auto parity detection - we assume TSIP is 8O1, which may not be true in the case of the thunderbolt. Given some of this past week's list traffic, I think Trimble goofed if they decided to go to 8N1. CK -- GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question on HP5359 Time Synthesizer
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ulrich Bangert writes: There is however one annoying fact: If I use the instrument in frequency or period mode, [...] the frequency of the repetitive waveform will change and drift by an amount of some 100 Hz up to a few kHz so that my counter may read 996 kHz after a few minutes with the drift getting smaller over time as the device warms up. You need to remember that in period/frequency mode the 5953 acts like two independent one-shots biting each others tails, so the frequncy you get depends not only on the precision of the pulses they emit, but also on their trigger circuits getting it right. In addition there is an analogue ramp based vernier delay generator in each channel which in my experience is very temperature sensitive. So if you want precision: let it warm up, and be very careful about calibration. Poul-Henning PS: I'd love a manual copy in PDF, the manual I have is a mess of photocopies an wrong order etc. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question on HP5359 Time Synthesizer
Ulrich Bangert wrote: Gentlemen, some time ago I had the possibility to buy a surplus HP5359 Time Synthesizer. As far as I can judge from my measurements with a HP5370 and a SR620 the two delays that are generated inside the box with high precision are ok and completely within the specs, which is the most important feature for me. There is however one annoying fact: If I use the instrument in frequency or period mode, where the negative slope of the second delay generator is used to trigger the first delay generator in order to generate a repetitive waveform, I notice that a few moments after I have pressed the calibration button (which should adjust everything automatically) the frequency of the repetitive waveform will change and drift by an amount of some 100 Hz up to a few kHz so that my counter may read 996 kHz after a few minutes with the drift getting smaller over time as the device warms up. I have first thought that this effect is due to a defective 10811 in the box but the effect is the same with an externally supplied standard frequency. Well, the thing is: If one reads the manual carefully he will find out that there is no spec about frequency stability to be found anwhere in it! On the other hand the manual says to check the trigger assembly in case of coarse overall timing errors. The trigger assembly is the point where the negative slope of the second delay generator is feed back into the trigger circuit to make the waveform repetitive. Am I complaining at something completely Ok or should I have a deeper look to the trigger circuits? Hopefully one of you 5370 adepts can give some explanation. Ulrich Bangert www.ulrich-bangert.de Ortholzer Weg 1 27243 Gross Ippener P.S. While I am writing this the drift rate has reduced to abt 1 HZ / sec. Ulrich For a ~1MHz output the contribution of the interpolator to the period is around 2%. Thus drift of around 1% (~100ps) of the interpolator range (~10ns) would lead to a frequency drift of around 200Hz. A trigger rate of around 1MHz is getting perilously close to the ~ 1.5MHz VCO phase lock loop comparison frequency, so the VCOs may be operating in digital hold mode. In this mode the VCO control voltages are measured when the VCOs are untriggered and locked and then an 8 bit DAC is used to set the VCO control voltage when the VCO's are triggered at a high rate. In this mode it doesn't take much warmup drift to account for what you are seeing. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receiver...
I have bought a number of different items from that seller (fluke.I), and have found him very friendly, helpful, and trustworthy. See my previous message about contact phone numbers - let him have it - it's in your own interest. Regards, Peter Vince (G8ZZR, London, England) Based on Larry's comments below, I ordered two of these and paid for them with PP. Now I just got an email from the seller asking for my cell phone number for their postal service. Anybody else on here who bought any of these get the same request? I have purchased an ebay item from China in the recent past, a lot more expensive, and bigger and a lot heavier than these boards and they did not ask for my cell number. I would appreciate any advise. Regards - Mike ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question on HP5359 Time Synthesizer
Ulrich, Your HP 5359A observations are normal, and many other HP 5359A users have asked exactly the same question, down through all these years since the box was first introduced. The main point is that the HP 5359A's purpose is *only* to generate precise timing. The box wasn't intended to generate precise frequency because, in its 'frequency mode' it only generates *approximate* rates by kicking (triggering) itself in the pants repetitively. (Therefore it is *not* a frequency synthesizer and its frequency is not phase-locked to its timebase.) Interesting note: Despite fact that the HP 5359A is not designed to synthesize nor lock its frequency to its timebase, if you set its frequency for 10 MHz it sometimes might actually synchronize itself to its 10811A timebase. This interesting effect only occurs at 10 MHz and apparently is a sympathetic synchronization effect due to ground loop and proximity coupling between circuitry and the timebase 10 MHz signal. ...This is a very weak effect, is not by design, and, again, can only occur for frequency settings of exactly 10 MHz. Cheers, Greg --- Ulrich wrote: Gentlemen, some time ago I had the possibility to buy a surplus HP5359 Time Synthesizer. As far as I can judge from my measurements with a HP5370 and a SR620 the two delays that are generated inside the box with high precision are ok and completely within the specs, which is the most important feature for me. There is however one annoying fact: If I use the instrument in frequency or period mode, where the negative slope of the second delay generator is used to trigger the first delay generator in order to generate a repetitive waveform, I notice that a few moments after I have pressed the calibration button (which should adjust everything automatically) the frequency of the repetitive waveform will change and drift by an amount of some 100 Hz up to a few kHz so that my counter may read 996 kHz after a few minutes with the drift getting smaller over time as the device warms up. I have first thought that this effect is due to a defective 10811 in the box but the effect is the same with an externally supplied standard frequency. Well, the thing is: If one reads the manual carefully he will find out that there is no spec about frequency stability to be found anwhere in it! On the other hand the manual says to check the trigger assembly in case of coarse overall timing errors. The trigger assembly is the point where the negative slope of the second delay generator is feed back into the trigger circuit to make the waveform repetitive. Am I complaining at something completely Ok or should I have a deeper look to the trigger circuits? Hopefully one of you 5370 adepts can give some explanation. Ulrich Bangert www.ulrich-bangert.de Ortholzer Weg 1 27243 Gross Ippener P.S. While I am writing this the drift rate has reduced to abt 1 HZ / sec. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Trak Systems 9101-3
Hello Does anyone have a service manual or at least the connector pinout for the Trak Systems 9101-3 or 5 gps reference please? Regards Paul -- 73 de Paul GW8IZR IO73TI http://www.gw8izr.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] NTPD PPS on OpenSolaris
Hi Folks Does anyone know the current status of NTPD with NMEA PPS drivers on OpenSolaris? After much hmm-ing and hah-ing, I have decided that my new office server will be running this OS. Now I need to work out whether it will be my time server or whether an additional lightweight BSD (where I know everything should work) box will be doing the job. Cheers M -- Matthew Smith Smiffytech - Technology Consulting Web Application Development Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTPD PPS on OpenSolaris
Matthew Smith wrote: Hi Folks Does anyone know the current status of NTPD with NMEA PPS drivers on OpenSolaris? Disclaimer: I work for Sun Microsystems, and may be biased... OpenSolaris is still running with NTP version 3, but v.4 is enroute. All the standard clock drivers should be working (I've only used NMEA and PPS myself, with success). I'll check with the integration team and see if I can get a schedule for the v.4 code... The porting and the new kernel support code has been ready for quite some time. After much hmm-ing and hah-ing, I have decided that my new office server will be running this OS. Now I need to work out whether it will be my time server or whether an additional lightweight BSD (where I know everything should work) box will be doing the job. My primary has been running OpenSolaris for a couple of years now .. --Magne / LA1BFA signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTPD PPS on OpenSolaris
Magne Mæhre wrote: btw, the OpenSolaris NTP project home page is at http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/ntp/ --Magne signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTPD PPS on OpenSolaris
[sorry about new thread ID - I've gone to digest mode and Thuderbird can't figure out to what it is replying.] Magne wrote: OpenSolaris is still running with NTP version 3, but v.4 is enroute. All the standard clock drivers should be working (I've only used NMEA and PPS myself, with success). So functionality is available in the standard OpenSolaris kernel? I'll check with the integration team and see if I can get a schedule for the v.4 code... The porting and the new kernel support code has been ready for quite some time. Thanks. I won't be building this machine until November/December, so hopefully everything should be there by then. Yes! Finally I get ZFS! Cheers M -- Matthew Smith Smiffytech - Technology Consulting Web Application Development Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt meets ntpd
Chris Kuethe wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Hal Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody have any Linux code to print the stuff it's sending? If not, I'll probably have something soon. 1) dig around on trimble.com - there's a link to iQSource.zip which may be useful 2) rip some code from gpsd - we can decode a fair number of the packets, and there's a lot of machinery you can reuse. I think I ordered early enough that sometime in the coming weeks a thunderbolt will be headed my way, after that i can see about making gpsd do the right things. already i know i need to do auto parity detection - we assume TSIP is 8O1, which may not be true in the case of the thunderbolt. Given some of this past week's list traffic, I think Trimble goofed if they decided to go to 8N1. Hi Chris, Trimble is using 8N1. Patching the code as you suggested works. To keep gpsd as config free as possible, I suppose you will need the auto parity detection. I used the patch Wayne Knowles provided for decoding the super packet and that allows gpsd to detect when it has a fix. The PPS output from the Thunderbolt I have is a short negative going pulse. The documentation says the pulse is configurable but I could not find a way to do this using Tboltmon. Instead, I purchased a FATPPS kit from TAPR which is able to stretch the PPS pulse and can also invert the polarity. Using the FATPPS, your parity correction, and Wayne's patch, I now have ntpd using the PPS from the Thunderbolt. ntpd rejects the GPS clock itself. I am still trying to understand this. I hope when your unit arrives, the fix will be obvious to you. Here are my results: ind assID status conf reach auth condition last_event cnt === 1 15949 9314 yes yes none outlyer reachable 1 2 15950 9414 yes yes none candidat reachable 1 3 15951 9314 yes yes none outlyer reachable 1 4 15952 9414 yes yes none candidat reachable 1 5 15953 8015 yes yes nonereject clock expt 1 6 15954 9614 yes yes none sys.peer reachable 1 7 15955 9014 yes yes nonereject reachable 1 ind assID status conf reach auth condition last_event cnt === 1 15949 9314 yes yes none outlyer reachable 1 2 15950 9414 yes yes none candidat reachable 1 3 15951 9314 yes yes none outlyer reachable 1 4 15952 9414 yes yes none candidat reachable 1 5 15953 8015 yes yes nonereject clock expt 1 6 15954 9614 yes yes none sys.peer reachable 1 7 15955 9014 yes yes nonereject reachable 1 Thanks for all of your help through several versions of gpsd. I am quite excited to finally have this sort of time reference available at home! Best regards, Tim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question on HP5359 Time Synthesizer
Poul, Bruce and Greg thanks for your help. I see a lot clearer now! The manual can be downloaded from Didier's manual web page http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl?dir=HP_Agilent Best regards Ulrich -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Greg Burnett Gesendet: Montag, 23. Juni 2008 10:56 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Question on HP5359 Time Synthesizer Ulrich, Your HP 5359A observations are normal, and many other HP 5359A users have asked exactly the same question, down through all these years since the box was first introduced. The main point is that the HP 5359A's purpose is *only* to generate precise timing. The box wasn't intended to generate precise frequency because, in its 'frequency mode' it only generates *approximate* rates by kicking (triggering) itself in the pants repetitively. (Therefore it is *not* a frequency synthesizer and its frequency is not phase-locked to its timebase.) Interesting note: Despite fact that the HP 5359A is not designed to synthesize nor lock its frequency to its timebase, if you set its frequency for 10 MHz it sometimes might actually synchronize itself to its 10811A timebase. This interesting effect only occurs at 10 MHz and apparently is a sympathetic synchronization effect due to ground loop and proximity coupling between circuitry and the timebase 10 MHz signal. ...This is a very weak effect, is not by design, and, again, can only occur for frequency settings of exactly 10 MHz. Cheers, Greg --- Ulrich wrote: Gentlemen, some time ago I had the possibility to buy a surplus HP5359 Time Synthesizer. As far as I can judge from my measurements with a HP5370 and a SR620 the two delays that are generated inside the box with high precision are ok and completely within the specs, which is the most important feature for me. There is however one annoying fact: If I use the instrument in frequency or period mode, where the negative slope of the second delay generator is used to trigger the first delay generator in order to generate a repetitive waveform, I notice that a few moments after I have pressed the calibration button (which should adjust everything automatically) the frequency of the repetitive waveform will change and drift by an amount of some 100 Hz up to a few kHz so that my counter may read 996 kHz after a few minutes with the drift getting smaller over time as the device warms up. I have first thought that this effect is due to a defective 10811 in the box but the effect is the same with an externally supplied standard frequency. Well, the thing is: If one reads the manual carefully he will find out that there is no spec about frequency stability to be found anwhere in it! On the other hand the manual says to check the trigger assembly in case of coarse overall timing errors. The trigger assembly is the point where the negative slope of the second delay generator is feed back into the trigger circuit to make the waveform repetitive. Am I complaining at something completely Ok or should I have a deeper look to the trigger circuits? Hopefully one of you 5370 adepts can give some explanation. Ulrich Bangert www.ulrich-bangert.de Ortholzer Weg 1 27243 Gross Ippener P.S. While I am writing this the drift rate has reduced to abt 1 HZ / sec. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] THUNDERBOLE STATUS LED'S
Hi, Has anyone determined how an interface could be incorporated into the Thunderbolt so as to show if it was locked. Some status led's would be nice such as can be fount on the Z3801's front panel. Jeff ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] THUNDERBOLE STATUS LED'S
Hello Jeff, Has anyone determined how an interface could be incorporated into the Thunderbolt so as to show if it was locked. Some status led's would be nice such as can be fount on the Z3801's front panel. provided that there is no easily accessible connector with the relevant signals inside the Thunderbolt, the easiest thing would be a microcontroller circuit listening to the serial data on the 9pin DSUB port. About any microcontroller with the power to process the data at 9600 bps will be fine, which includes pretty much every AVR, PIC, 8051, MSP,… currently available. I was pondering about that myself, but unfortunately will be quite busy for the following month… ☹ Chris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Thunderbolt meets ntpd
I have written a little (2500 line) C program that parses all the Thunderbolt and Thunderbolt-E massages. I'll post it after I scrub some code that can't be shared. The program is actually written in Quick-C for DOS. Sholld be easy to port to Linux by changing the serial I/O routines. They are currently PC specific interrupt driven serial input queue and a polled serial character output routine. BTW, the Thunderbolt-E seems to default to 8-Odd-1. _ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_062008 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Austron 1530a manual or schematic
Hello there: I see the word Austron mentioned on here a fair amount and tune it out (usually :-) ) on account of not having any equipment that I was aware of. Well two things have occurred, on my local ham radio list W0BJ asked if anyone had an Austron 1530a manual or schematic. (So that he could fix his own.) I told him that I'd ask here on time-nuts. (and I'm going to search the time-nuts archives). Secondly, over in my storage locker, I've discovered that I have an Austron 2180 (I think). So I'm seeking manual for that as well (electronic preferred). 73 Bruce Richardson W9FZ Attend the CSVHFS Conference in Wichita on July 25-26, 2008! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] THUNDERBOLT STATUS LED'S
If there is NMEA Data available, there is a design utilizing a PIC chip that will indicate 3D GPS Fix. It was published by W1AUV. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Christian Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 23, 2008 7:28 AM To: jshank [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] THUNDERBOLT STATUS LED'S Hello Jeff, Has anyone determined how an interface could be incorporated into the Thunderbolt so as to show if it was locked. Some status led's would be nice such as can be fount on the Z3801's front panel. provided that there is no easily accessible connector with the relevant signals inside the Thunderbolt, the easiest thing would be a microcontroller circuit listening to the serial data on the 9pin DSUB port. About any microcontroller with the power to process the data at 9600 bps will be fine, which includes pretty much every AVR, PIC, 8051, MSP,… currently available. I was pondering about that myself, but unfortunately will be quite busy for the following month… ☹ Chris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP Firmware Dates
Larry, Et al, So long as the unit is a VP, the firmare date should not matter. The last firmware for the VP was v10.0 and was released in 1997, but all VP firmware will work with the HP's. As you can see from the TAC32 screenshot on Ebay the receiver being used was a 6 channel VP with v8.4 firmware. This was the standard configuration for the timing community back then. The straight MCX connector plugged directly into the motherboard connector instead of going to a cable. If these are coming from China I am guessing that they are decommisioning a lot of the old Lucent cell-sites. A note about the connector: Unless you have REALLY good soldering equipment and know how to use it, do not try to remove the connector. The ground plane in the board makes removal very difficult, especially in the B4xx and B8xx receivers. When I was working with these I normally just soldered a piece of RG174 on equivalent to the connector pins on the back side. If you do this you cannot have any service loop. The terminations to the connector pins must be as short as possible. Initial delays in acquisition are normally due to the receivers being inactive for long periods of time. If the oscillator characteristics change a lot during long periods of inactivity it can take over an hour for your initial fix. Once the new characteristics have been loaded into EEPROM your acq times should go back to normal. I wrote a paper on this many years ago when I was working at Synergy. Does anyone have a copy they would be willing to post? Randy Warner -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:52 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receive... Mike et al: The first two Motorola Oncore-VP RX's I bought from that eBay seller were shipped by TNT courier service, about $30 cost, to my work address with about a 5 or 6 day delivery time. The seller provided a tracking number and I was able to follow the shipment's progress. It spent about two days hung up for custom's clearance. The seller's current eBay Oncore-VP listing uses Hong Kong's Air Mail Service, presumably handed off to USPS, at a much lower cost than TNT. On my second order for the Oncore-VP with this seller he didn't like my PO Box address that I use for Snail Mail and so I gave him my work address again. He also wanted my mobile phone number, but I gave my work phone number. I thought it a bit odd that he said that Hong Kong Air Mail Service didn't like PO boxes... I don't know why that would be since they aren't actually delivering it in the US. Anyway, I've still got two weeks to go before expecting delivery on the second order. Oddly, the seller said to my inquiry about tracking numbers that Hong Kong Air Mail Service does provide a tracking number -- but I've not been able to get it from the seller. So far he has a 100% feedback rating and he sure gave me good service on the first order. Further, he has software available for the receivers, but you need to ask for it per the instructions in his eBay listing. As always with eBay its Caveat Emptor. He does have PP Buyer Protection so along with his 100% feedback rating I'm not too worried. I can tell you that I was greatly relieved when the two receivers fired up FB in my Z3801A! It did take awhile, even with a position initialization fix, for them to find the birds, then get current GPS time, etc. As an FYI, be aware (at least in my Z3801A), that the Z3801A's motherboard firmware doesn't like dates after Dec 31st, 2007. So if you try to initialize the Z3801A with a current date it may complain that its out of range. Maybe mine has old firmware and newer units won't complain? I dunno. It doesn't seem to be a problem -- just slows down the initial acquisition... Note that it doesn't complain about the current date when acquired by GPS sats -- just the input routine for PC provided dates complains. --Larry, W7JYJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1530a manual or schematic
Are you sure it's a 1530a? I used to work for Austron, but don't recognise that model number. Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Richardson Sent: 23 June 2008 16:11 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Austron 1530a manual or schematic Hello there: I see the word Austron mentioned on here a fair amount and tune it out (usually :-) ) on account of not having any equipment that I was aware of. Well two things have occurred, on my local ham radio list W0BJ asked if anyone had an Austron 1530a manual or schematic. (So that he could fix his own.) I told him that I'd ask here on time-nuts. (and I'm going to search the time-nuts archives). Secondly, over in my storage locker, I've discovered that I have an Austron 2180 (I think). So I'm seeking manual for that as well (electronic preferred). 73 Bruce Richardson W9FZ Attend the CSVHFS Conference in Wichita on July 25-26, 2008! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1530a manual or schematic
Or the 2180. ;-( Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob Kimberley Sent: 23 June 2008 18:18 To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1530a manual or schematic Are you sure it's a 1530a? I used to work for Austron, but don't recognise that model number. Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Richardson Sent: 23 June 2008 16:11 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Austron 1530a manual or schematic Hello there: I see the word Austron mentioned on here a fair amount and tune it out (usually :-) ) on account of not having any equipment that I was aware of. Well two things have occurred, on my local ham radio list W0BJ asked if anyone had an Austron 1530a manual or schematic. (So that he could fix his own.) I told him that I'd ask here on time-nuts. (and I'm going to search the time-nuts archives). Secondly, over in my storage locker, I've discovered that I have an Austron 2180 (I think). So I'm seeking manual for that as well (electronic preferred). 73 Bruce Richardson W9FZ Attend the CSVHFS Conference in Wichita on July 25-26, 2008! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt meets ntpd
Chris Kuethe wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Hal Murray [1][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody have any Linux code to print the stuff it's sending? If not, I'll probably have something soon. 1) dig around on trimble.com - there's a link to iQSource.zip which may be useful Do you mean [2]ftp://ftp.trimble.com/pub/sct/embedded/bin/iQ/TOOLS/ ? Sylvain RICHARD References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. ftp://ftp.trimble.com/pub/sct/embedded/bin/iQ/TOOLS/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP Firmware Dates
Randy et al: Thanks, Randy, for the history lesson on the VPs and their firmware. My previous firmware comment, however, was directed at the Z3801A's motherboard firmware, not the VP's firmware. This is because my Z3801A won't take a manually entered date after Dec 31st, 2007. With a 2008 date I get an out of range (or something like that) error msg back. The VP doesn't seem to have any problems with 2008 dates from the GPS birds. And once the Z3801A gets up and running with current date/time/position all is good. Tnx very much for the input RF connector info! I think some washers may be able to space the VP a little higher to allow enough clearance for the cable connector on the straight RF input connector without hitting the IC underneath it on the motherboard, but I've not yet tried this. --Larry, W7JYJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt meets ntpd
Folks, Just in case anybody isn't aware of the following pages, I thought I'd mention it and invite folks to put whatever information they think would be useful there: http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/ConfiguringRefclocks http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/RefclockUsers I'm happy to help folks get more information there. H ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP Firmware Dates
Larry, Not a problem. The VP works fine with current dates. The ones you have to look out for are back in the original v6.x firmware days. Because of their programming the were not capable of handling the 1024 week rollover. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:13 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP Firmware Dates Randy et al: Thanks, Randy, for the history lesson on the VPs and their firmware. My previous firmware comment, however, was directed at the Z3801A's motherboard firmware, not the VP's firmware. This is because my Z3801A won't take a manually entered date after Dec 31st, 2007. With a 2008 date I get an out of range (or something like that) error msg back. The VP doesn't seem to have any problems with 2008 dates from the GPS birds. And once the Z3801A gets up and running with current date/time/position all is good. Tnx very much for the input RF connector info! I think some washers may be able to space the VP a little higher to allow enough clearance for the cable connector on the straight RF input connector without hitting the IC underneath it on the motherboard, but I've not yet tried this. --Larry, W7JYJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] VP Startup Times
Guys, Art Sepin was nice enough to pass along the VP startup note. It is attached. Randy VPStart-Up Note.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] VP Startup Times
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Art Sepin was nice enough to pass along the VP startup note. It is attached. Interesting. Thanks. What is a pendulum oscillator, and what changes while one is sitting idle? Why does it change more than a normal quartz oscillator? -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1530a manual or schematic
Hi Rob: Well W0BJ said the 1530a is a crystal frequency standard made by austron. And I'll go check on the other one in my storage locker :-). thanks for replying. Still haven't searched the Time-Nuts archives yet. 73 Bruce Richardson W9FZ Attend the CSVHFS Conference in Wichita on July 25-26, 2008! From: Rob Kimberley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1530a manual or schematic Are you sure it's a 1530a? I used to work for Austron, but don't recognise that model number. Or the 2180. Rob Kimberley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] THUNDERBOLT STATUS LED'S
/snip Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:24:35 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Richard W. Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [time-nuts] THUNDERBOLT STATUS LED'S If there is NMEA Data available, there is a design utilizing a PIC chip that will indicate 3D GPS Fix. It was published by W1AUV. 73, Dick, W1KSZ / end snip This si something that has been on my laundry list for quite a while. Some time ago I became enchanted with the PicAxe chip and determined that reading $GPGSA data for the value of 3 is a pretty easy thing to do. For those not familiar with the picaxe is as a pic with a bootloader built in and a free Basic-Like compiler. While it is somewhat limited in what it can do, and the speed that it can do it, the price is extremely attractive... http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/ $GPGSA,A,3,04,05,,09,12,,,24,2.5,1.3,2.1*39 Where: GSA Satellite status AAuto selection of 2D or 3D fix (M = manual) 33D fix - values include: 1 = no fix 2 = 2D fix 3 = 3D fix 04,05... PRNs of satellites used for fix (space for 12) 2.5 PDOP (dilution of precision) 1.3 Horizontal dilution of precision (HDOP) 2.1 Vertical dilution of precision (VDOP) *39 the checksum data, always begins with * ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] VP Startup Times
Hal, A pendulum oscillator is not that different. Basically it is a quartz oscillator that is pulled by an electronic circuit, not unlike a VXVCO. As any crystal does, it ages as it sits around, and depending on how well it follows the characteristic curve for that particular unit the sooner it will come into the proper frequency. The algorithms used in the VP are quite slow, so if the frequency has drifted a lot you can spend a long time waiting for the receiver to behave itself. Failing to wait for the receiver can cause you to toss what is otherwise a working unit. Note that this is not necessarily more than a normal quartz oscillator. I can tell you some horror stories about supposedly Good crystals that didn't even come close to meeting their advertised aging characteristics. They all worked fine when they came off the assembly line, but had almost random drift characteristics over time. Randy _ What is a pendulum oscillator, and what changes while one is sitting idle? Why does it change more than a normal quartz oscillator? -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] THUNDERBOLT STATUS LED'S
The Thunderbolt does not produce NMEA messages, so you would need to parse the TSIP data stream. My C program to do that for all Thunderbolt messages is around 2700 lines long. LOCK on the Thunderbolt is not a simple question to answer with a single blinkey light. There are many degrees of lockage and unlockage to consider. You have satellite lock, oscillator lock, signal quality, oscillator holdover, PPS offset, frequency offset, etc. A simple LED lock light would leave much to the imagination (but then, what you don't know can't hurt you, right...) I am working on a Thunderbolt controller based on a small LCD touchscreen graphics controller (mega-donkey.com). First I will probably do a version that runs on old laptops. _ Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays you back! http://search.live.com/cashback/?pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earncashback ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] THUNDERBOLT STATUS LED'S
Mark, I hope you or someone else is able to come up with a Thunderbolt controller for the many of us who have or will be receiving Thunderbolts. A controller based on a LCD touchscreen would be great in the since that one could assemble a self-contained frequency standard based on the Thunderbolt. Keep us informed in you progress with this project. - Original Message - From: Mark Sims [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:02 PM Subject: [time-nuts] THUNDERBOLT STATUS LED'S The Thunderbolt does not produce NMEA messages, so you would need to parse the TSIP data stream. My C program to do that for all Thunderbolt messages is around 2700 lines long. LOCK on the Thunderbolt is not a simple question to answer with a single blinkey light. There are many degrees of lockage and unlockage to consider. You have satellite lock, oscillator lock, signal quality, oscillator holdover, PPS offset, frequency offset, etc. A simple LED lock light would leave much to the imagination (but then, what you don't know can't hurt you, right...) I am working on a Thunderbolt controller based on a small LCD touchscreen graphics controller (mega-donkey.com). First I will probably do a version that runs on old laptops. _ Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays you back! http://search.live.com/cashback/?pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earncashback ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
