[time-nuts] Manual for Z3805A
Does anyone have a manual for one of these as all I can find on the net is one for the Z3801A? 73, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator
Another one to look at apparently is the Galep model 4(LPT) or 5(USB). I don't have one but when this question was asked recently elsewhere, they were very highly recommended - and very good support. http://www.conitec.com/english/galep5.php Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims Sent: 10 April 2009 04:17 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator By far the best programmer on the planet is still the Data I/O Unisite (followed by the 3980, 3900, and 2900 prorgrammers). If a Unisite can't program it, you are in bad shape... it probably can't be programmed. Bad news is a refurbed Unisite will set you back $25,000 plus the cost of socket adapters and software. Good news is with a little shopping around on Ebay, you can possibly snag one for around $100. The trick is to find one with the socket adapters you need. Also the more pin driver cards it has installed, the better (a full load is 17 cards/68 pin drivers). Also, one with the internal hard drive (aka MSM, aka Mass Storage Module) is very desirable. Booting from a (720Kb only) floppy can take several minutes. I have purchased several machines just because they had an adapter that I did not have. Also you need to make sure it comes with a full set of programming software (generally, the later the version better) because a current software set from DIO will set you back over $2000... For more info, check out Bruce Lane's guide to DIO machines on Ebay: http://reviews.ebay.com/Data-I-O-Device-Programmers-A-Condensed-Reference_W0 QQugidZ101698682?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:3 _ Rediscover HotmailR: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Upd ates1_042009 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards
Steve, I think the penny has dropped now, thanks. It's interesting that the ADEV calculation still works even without continuous data as all the reading I have done has led me to belive this was sacrosanct. The penny may be falling but it is not completely dropped: Of course you can feed your ADEV calculation with every second sample removed and setting Tau0 = 2. And of course you receive a result that now is in harmony with your all samples / Tau0 = 1 s computation. Had you done frequency measurements the reason for this appearant harmony is that your counter does not show significant different behaviour whether set to 1 s gate time or alternate 2 second gate time. Nevertheless leaving every second sample out is NOT exactly the same as continous data with Tau0 = 2 s. Instead it is data with Tau0 = 1 s and a DEAD TIME of 1s. There are dead time correction schemes available in the literature. Best regards Ulrich Bangert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Rooke Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. April 2009 14:00 An: Tom Van Baak; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards Tom, 2009/4/9 Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com: The first argument to the adev1 program is the sampling interval t0. The program doesn't know how far apart the input file samples are taken so it is your job to specify this. The default is 1 second. If you have data taken one second apart then t0 = 1. If you have data taken two seconds apart then t0 = 2. If you have data taken 60 seconds apart then t0 = 60, etc. If, as in your case, you take raw one second data and remove every other sample (a perfectly valid thing to do), then t0 = 2. Make sense now? It's still continuous data in the sense that all measurements are a fixed interval apart. But in any ADEV calculation you have to specify the raw data interval. I think the penny has dropped now, thanks. It's interesting that the ADEV calculation still works even without continuous data as all the reading I have done has led me to belive this was sacrosanct. What I now believe is that it's possible to measure oscillator performance with less than optimal test gear. This will enable me to see the effects of any experiments I make in the future. If you can't measure it, how can you know that what your doing is good or bad. 73, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards
Ulrich, 2009/4/10 Ulrich Bangert df...@ulrich-bangert.de: Steve, I think the penny has dropped now, thanks. It's interesting that the ADEV calculation still works even without continuous data as all the reading I have done has led me to belive this was sacrosanct. The penny may be falling but it is not completely dropped: Of course you can feed your ADEV calculation with every second sample removed and setting Tau0 = 2. And of course you receive a result that now is in harmony with your all samples / Tau0 = 1 s computation. Had you done frequency measurements the reason for this appearant harmony is that your counter does not show significant different behaviour whether set to 1 s gate time or alternate 2 second gate time. So why would my counter show any significant differences between a 1 sec or 2 sec gate time? Nevertheless leaving every second sample out is NOT exactly the same as continous data with Tau0 = 2 s. Instead it is data with Tau0 = 1 s and a DEAD TIME of 1s. There are dead time correction schemes available in the literature. I've just done a Google search for dead time correction scheme and I just turn up results relating to particle physics where it seems measurements are unable to keep up with the flow of data, hence the need to factor in the dead time of system. This form of application does not appear to correlate with the measurement of plain oscillators. Yes there is dead time, per say, but I fail to see how this can detract significantly from continuous data given a sufficient data set size (as for a total measurement time). I guess what we need is a real data set which would show that this form of ADEV calculation produces incorrect results, IE. the proof of the pudding is in the eating. 73, Steve Best regards Ulrich Bangert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Rooke Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. April 2009 14:00 An: Tom Van Baak; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards Tom, 2009/4/9 Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com: The first argument to the adev1 program is the sampling interval t0. The program doesn't know how far apart the input file samples are taken so it is your job to specify this. The default is 1 second. If you have data taken one second apart then t0 = 1. If you have data taken two seconds apart then t0 = 2. If you have data taken 60 seconds apart then t0 = 60, etc. If, as in your case, you take raw one second data and remove every other sample (a perfectly valid thing to do), then t0 = 2. Make sense now? It's still continuous data in the sense that all measurements are a fixed interval apart. But in any ADEV calculation you have to specify the raw data interval. I think the penny has dropped now, thanks. It's interesting that the ADEV calculation still works even without continuous data as all the reading I have done has led me to belive this was sacrosanct. What I now believe is that it's possible to measure oscillator performance with less than optimal test gear. This will enable me to see the effects of any experiments I make in the future. If you can't measure it, how can you know that what your doing is good or bad. 73, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards
Tom, 2009/4/10 Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com: We need to be careful about what you mean by continuous. Let me probe a bit further to make sure you or others understand. My reference to continuous data would be defined as measurements over a specific sampling period with each sample following directly after the previous. This seems to be what is generally required for the calculation of ADEV in the literature and postings on this group. Such that techniques like the picket fence are suggested as a way to deduce continuous data when using instruments that are unable to measure sequential cycles of the input. The data that you first mentioned, some GPS and OCXO data at: http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/gpsdo-sim was recorded once per second, for 400,000 samples without any interruption; that's over 4 days of continuous data. As you see it is very possible to extract every other, or every 10th, every 60th, or every Nth point from this large data set to create a smaller data set. Is it as if you had several counters all connected to the same DUT. Perhaps one makes a new phase measurement each second, another makes a measurement every 10 seconds; maybe a third counter just measures once a minute. The key here is not how often they make measurements, but that they all keep running at their particular rate. Agreed. The data sets you get from these counters all represent 4 days of measurement; what changes is the measurement interval, the tau0, or whatever your ADEV tool calls it. Now the ADEV plots you get from these counters will all match perfectly with the only exception being that the every-60 second counter cannot give you any ADEV points for tau less than 60; the every-10 second counter cannot give you points for tau less than 10 seconds; and for that matter; the every 1-second counter cannot give you points for tau less than 1 second. It is certainly true that 1 second sampled data collected at 60 second intervals cannot be fed into an ADEV calculation as having a tau of 1 sec as the resultant calculation will show incorrect results when noise like drift is a factor. If the data set is pre-processed and corrected for such effects as drift, I believe it should be possible to feed this discontinuous data as continuous data for the measurement of short tau with reasonable accuracy. So what makes all these continuous is that the runs were not interrupted and that the data points were taken at regular intervals. The x-axis of an ADEV plot spans a logarithmic range of tau. The farthest point on the *right* is limited by how long your run was. If you collect data for 4 or 5 days you can compute and plot points out to around 1 day or 10^5 seconds. On the other hand, the farthest point on the *left* is limited by how fast you collect data. If you collect one point every 10 seconds, then tau=10 is your left-most point. Yes, it's common to collect data every second; in this case you can plot down to tau=1s. Some of my instruments can collect phase data at 1000 points per second (huge files!) and this means my leftmost ADEV point is 1 millisecond. I guess it really depends on what level your measurement system is able to work. For, say, the output of a 10MHz OCXO it would be desirable to measure the source frequency although that would require a fast measurement system and significant storage. The benefits of this is that the input source is not degraded in the process of division down to a more manageable frequency. We are currently discussing the effects of the introduction of noise into frequency standards just with distribution amplifiers and dividers. The ability to measure such close in noise effects would indeed be a great bonus and I envy your abilty to perform that. Here's an example of collecting data at 10 Hz: http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/gpsdo/ You can see this allows me to plot from ADEV tau = 0.1 s. Does all this make sense now? Yes, I understand. What I now believe is that it's possible to measure oscillator performance with less than optimal test gear. This will enable me to see the effects of any experiments I make in the future. If you can't measure it, how can you know that what your doing is good or bad. Very true. So what one or several performance measurements are you after? Well there are a number of them. The selection of best free-running OCXOs. The effects of locking an OCXO to GPS and the tuning of this. Running a OCXO in active holdover mode. I'd like to separate the effects of temperature, rate of change of temperature, aging, humidity, atmospheric pressure and, possibly, gravity on a free-running OCXO. By changing just one variable at a time, I'd like to measure the effects of each one with respect to determining the correction required from a holdover circuit. Agreed, some of these are simply defined as frequency change in the oscillator but I will wish to measure the full system performance and need some form of
Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance
Bruce, 2009/4/10 Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz: Just dont get too carried away. Remember that the Hadamard deviation is only insensitive to linear frequency drift. If the drift is quadratic for example then it will affect the Hadamard deviation. Point well taken. In that case we need a new deviation measurement with 4 elements then :-) 73, Steve Bruce Steve Rooke wrote: Hi Tom, 2009/4/9 Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com: I use it sometimes when I need to. But note that in most cases you do NOT want to ignore drift. If you measure an OCXO for the purpose of using it in a clock or appliance or radio or test equipment you really do want to know if it has drift or not. ADEV will show this, while HDEV will not. So you have to be careful about using statistics that deliberately and quietly ignore effects that may be important to your application. Indeed, I was thinking that HDEV would be a good tool to characterise free running OCXOs with it's insensitivity to drift but, of course, I would use ADEV to measure the performance of a GPS locked system or one running in holdover mode. But before you run off and use HDEV for everything note that the other practice that is far more common -- simply remove frequency drift from the raw data before computing an ADEV on the residuals. If you look at plots in professional journals you will often find comments to the effect that phase, frequency, or drift offsets have been added or removed prior to making said phase, frequency, or stability plots. I had no intent to use HDEV exclusively, it seems like a useful tool to analyse free-running oscillators to measure the affects of noise while screening out drift (which we have some means of handling in holdover circuits). As a selection tool it seemed quite useful and I was asking if others felt the same way. Agreed, it is possible to factor out drift by pre-processing the data and then using just ADEV to compare all aspects of any open or closed system. Here, to see the difference that HDEV makes (or not) see: http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/hdev It seems to have an effect removing some of what must be drift with the OCXO plot but adds nothing to the PPS one. Do I take it that the OCXO was free-running and the PPS was locked to GPS, as this would account for the differences? The command line program that I use (ADEV3) these days: Tool for ADEV, MDEV, HDEV: http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/adev3.exe Source code (compiles in windows, bsd, or linux) http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/adev3.c Thanks for the pointers, I'll have a look at this instead. 73, Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] RS XSD-2 - help needed
Hello, I got a broken RohdeSchwarz XSD-2 crystal oscillator module, type 283.6010.02 . By first, has anyone a schematic for it? Then, the dewar flask originally containing the oscillator mass is broken. Size was (approx) 65 mm internal diameter, 150 mm internal height. Who has similar dewars? The volume is close to 0.5 liters, and I have not found an useful replacement for common thermos flasks of that size. Any help appreciated! 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance
Hmmm... Think I've done enough going forth and multiplying in my life :-) Oh, if life was only as simple as going Forth! 73, Steve 2009/4/10 Don Latham d...@montana.com: Me too, Steve. Let us go Forth and Multiply :-) Don Steve Rooke Ulrich, 2009/4/9 Ulrich Bangert df...@ulrich-bangert.de: Steve, ocxo. I don't think I've seen this being used by anyone on the list and wonder why? Easy explained: Because you will hardly find it in any free available software except mine which is written in the P language which in turn rules it out as a tool for you. Woops, I'd better dust off my P skills then and swallow some humble pie to boot. You did take what I said about P before with a whole handful of salt I hope. If it was down to me I'd probably write everything in Forth or PL1. 73, Steve - ZL3TUV G8KVD 73s de Ulrich, DF6JB -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Rooke Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. April 2009 15:00 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance According to Wikipedia, this is insensitive to drift and so seems like a better tool for measuring oscillators, like ocxo. I don't think I've seen this being used by anyone on the list and wonder why? 73, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance
It was probably the first real high level language that I got to play with and I have fond memories of it. 73, Steve 2009/4/10 David C. Partridge david.partri...@dsl.pipex.com: PL/1 - now that brings back memories - nice language! Dave Partridge -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: 09 April 2009 12:36 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance If it was down to me I'd probably write everything in Forth or PL1. 73, Steve - ZL3TUV G8KVD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator
Mark Sims wrote: By far the best programmer on the planet is still the Data I/O Unisite (followed by the 3980, 3900, and 2900 prorgrammers). If a Unisite can't program it, you are in bad shape... it probably can't be programmed. That is really kind of a silly statement. Data I/O is known as the cadillac of programmers, but mostly because of its high price. Advin makes a programmer that will program everything the Data I/O will, using the same algorithms, for 1/10th the price. Further all of their software is available on their website for free download. Their intro model has 44 drivers, and will program devices up to 128 pins. Their top of the line model has 128 drivers and will program devices up to 304 pins... costs $3295. Used Advin programmers are a mixed bag. When the 3.3V devices came out, the voltage references on the pin driver DAC's got changed, so that obsoleted them for 3.3V devices. However, the software for every machine they ever made is available on their website. Also, their programmers use the host computer for much of the programmer's power, and there is an issue with some of the earlier machines and too fast PC's, so there might be a need to buy an older throttled down PC to host your Advin programmer. -Chuck Harris Bad news is a refurbed Unisite will set you back $25,000 plus the cost of socket adapters and software. Good news is with a little shopping around on Ebay, you can possibly snag one for around $100. The trick is to find one with the socket adapters you need. Also the more pin driver cards it has installed, the better (a full load is 17 cards/68 pin drivers). Also, one with the internal hard drive (aka MSM, aka Mass Storage Module) is very desirable. Booting from a (720Kb only) floppy can take several minutes. I have purchased several machines just because they had an adapter that I did not have. Also you need to make sure it comes with a full set of programming software (generally, the later the version better) because a current software set from DIO will set you back over $2000... For more info, check out Bruce Lane's guide to DIO machines on Ebay: http://reviews.ebay.com/Data-I-O-Device-Programmers-A-Condensed-Reference_W0QQugidZ101698682?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:3 _ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance
Steve Rooke skrev: Bruce, 2009/4/10 Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz: Just dont get too carried away. Remember that the Hadamard deviation is only insensitive to linear frequency drift. If the drift is quadratic for example then it will affect the Hadamard deviation. Point well taken. In that case we need a new deviation measurement with 4 elements then :-) Will not help to fully cancel the effect as crystal drift is a function of log. See Vig on crystal oscillators at IEEE UFFC pages. One needs to identify the drift shape, estimates its parameters and then remove the estimated value from phase or frequency data. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards
Steve, So why would my counter show any significant differences between a 1 sec or 2 sec gate time? suppose your source has a 0.5 Hz frequency modulation. Would you see it with 2 s gate time or a integer multiple of it? Would you notice it with 1 s gate time or an odd integer of it? I've just done a Google search for dead time correction scheme and I just turn up results relating to particle physics where it seems measurements are unable to keep up with the flow of data, hence the need to factor in the dead time of system. Google for the STABLE32 manual. THIS literature will bring you a lot further, many well documented source examples in Forth and PL/1, hi. F.e. you may look here: http://www.wriley.com/ Best regards Ulrich Bangert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Rooke Gesendet: Freitag, 10. April 2009 12:55 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: [!! SPAM] Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards Ulrich, 2009/4/10 Ulrich Bangert df...@ulrich-bangert.de: Steve, I think the penny has dropped now, thanks. It's interesting that the ADEV calculation still works even without continuous data as all the reading I have done has led me to belive this was sacrosanct. The penny may be falling but it is not completely dropped: Of course you can feed your ADEV calculation with every second sample removed and setting Tau0 = 2. And of course you receive a result that now is in harmony with your all samples / Tau0 = 1 s computation. Had you done frequency measurements the reason for this appearant harmony is that your counter does not show significant different behaviour whether set to 1 s gate time or alternate 2 second gate time. So why would my counter show any significant differences between a 1 sec or 2 sec gate time? Nevertheless leaving every second sample out is NOT exactly the same as continous data with Tau0 = 2 s. Instead it is data with Tau0 = 1 s and a DEAD TIME of 1s. There are dead time correction schemes available in the literature. I've just done a Google search for dead time correction scheme and I just turn up results relating to particle physics where it seems measurements are unable to keep up with the flow of data, hence the need to factor in the dead time of system. This form of application does not appear to correlate with the measurement of plain oscillators. Yes there is dead time, per say, but I fail to see how this can detract significantly from continuous data given a sufficient data set size (as for a total measurement time). I guess what we need is a real data set which would show that this form of ADEV calculation produces incorrect results, IE. the proof of the pudding is in the eating. 73, Steve Best regards Ulrich Bangert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Rooke Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. April 2009 14:00 An: Tom Van Baak; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards Tom, 2009/4/9 Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com: The first argument to the adev1 program is the sampling interval t0. The program doesn't know how far apart the input file samples are taken so it is your job to specify this. The default is 1 second. If you have data taken one second apart then t0 = 1. If you have data taken two seconds apart then t0 = 2. If you have data taken 60 seconds apart then t0 = 60, etc. If, as in your case, you take raw one second data and remove every other sample (a perfectly valid thing to do), then t0 = 2. Make sense now? It's still continuous data in the sense that all measurements are a fixed interval apart. But in any ADEV calculation you have to specify the raw data interval. I think the penny has dropped now, thanks. It's interesting that the ADEV calculation still works even without continuous data as all the reading I have done has led me to belive this was sacrosanct. What I now believe is that it's possible to measure oscillator performance with less than optimal test gear. This will enable me to see the effects of any experiments I make in the future. If you can't measure it, how can you know that what your doing is good or bad. 73, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance
Steve, It was probably the first real high level language that I got to play with and I have fond memories of it. I own a HP67 calculator and since when it came to the market I was too young to have the money to buy it, I have also lots of memories concerning these times. Neverthelesss it is truly NOT the tool that I use today. Best regards Ulrich Bangert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Rooke Gesendet: Freitag, 10. April 2009 13:57 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance It was probably the first real high level language that I got to play with and I have fond memories of it. 73, Steve 2009/4/10 David C. Partridge david.partri...@dsl.pipex.com: PL/1 - now that brings back memories - nice language! Dave Partridge -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: 09 April 2009 12:36 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance If it was down to me I'd probably write everything in Forth or PL1. 73, Steve - ZL3TUV G8KVD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards
Nevertheless leaving every second sample out is NOT exactly the same as continous data with Tau0 = 2 s. Instead it is data with Tau0 = 1 s and a DEAD TIME of 1s. There are dead time correction schemes available in the literature. Ulrich, and Steve, Wait, are we talking phase measurements here or frequency measurements? My assumption with this thread is that Steve is simply taking phase (time error) measurements, as in my GPS raw data page, in which case there is no such thing as dead time. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance
Ulrich Bangert wrote: Steve, It was probably the first real high level language that I got to play with and I have fond memories of it. I own a HP67 calculator and since when it came to the market I was too young to have the money to buy it, I have also lots of memories concerning these times. Neverthelesss it is truly NOT the tool that I use today. Really? I ditched my newer calculators, and my HP67 is the only calculator I use now. If I need more power, I use a computer. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS XSD-2 - help needed
Do you have a picture of the unit and of the guts? Bert Kehren Miami In a message dated 4/10/2009 8:17:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ik1...@spin-it.com writes: Hello, I got a broken RohdeSchwarz XSD-2 crystal oscillator module, type 283.6010.02 . By first, has anyone a schematic for it? Then, the dewar flask originally containing the oscillator mass is broken. Size was (approx) 65 mm internal diameter, 150 mm internal height. Who has similar dewars? The volume is close to 0.5 liters, and I have not found an useful replacement for common thermos flasks of that size. Any help appreciated! 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. **Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare0003) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS XSD-2 - help needed
My email is _ewkeh...@aol.com_ (mailto:ewkeh...@aol.com) Bert In a message dated 4/10/2009 2:36:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ik1...@spin-it.com writes: At 20.23 10/04/2009, you wrote: Do you have a picture of the unit and of the guts? Bert Kehren Miami I will take some pics and send to you tomorrow. Marco ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. **Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare0003) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Characterising frequency standards
Tom Van Baak skrev: Nevertheless leaving every second sample out is NOT exactly the same as continous data with Tau0 = 2 s. Instead it is data with Tau0 = 1 s and a DEAD TIME of 1s. There are dead time correction schemes available in the literature. Ulrich, and Steve, Wait, are we talking phase measurements here or frequency measurements? My assumption with this thread is that Steve is simply taking phase (time error) measurements, as in my GPS raw data page, in which case there is no such thing as dead time. I agree. I was also considering this earlier but put my mind to rest by assuming phase/time samples. Dead time is when the counter looses track of time in between two consecutive measurements. A zero dead-time counter uses the stop of one measure as the start of the next measure. If you have a series of time-error values taken each second and then drop every other sample and just recall that the time between the samples is now 2 seconds, then the tau0 has become 2s without causing dead-time. However, if the original data would have been kept, better statistical properties would be given, unless there is a strong repetitive disturbance at 2 s period, in which case it would be filtered out. An example when one does get dead-time, consider a frequency counter which measures frequency with a gate-time of say 2 s. However, before it re-arms and start the next measures is takes 300 ms. The two samples will have 2,3 s between its start and actually spans 4,3 seconds rather than 4 seconds. When doing Allan Deviation calculations on such a measurement series, it will be biased and the bias may be compensated, but these days counters with zero dead-time is readily available or the problem can be avoided by careful consideration. I believe Grenhall made some extensive analysis of the biasing of dead-time, so it should be available from NIST FT online library. Before zero dead-time counters was available, a setup of two counters was used so that they where interleaved so the dead-time was the measure time of the other. I can collect some references to dead-time articles if anyone need them. I'd happy to. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
I have a old data device that is spitting out TTL data at 10 MHz. There's just a data line (no clock) but the edges clearly indicate an internal 10 MHz clock. I'd like to do a continuous capture of the bits, for up to tens of minutes, into a PC. That comes to about 1 GB of raw data. I can handle the decoding of the bits in software after the capture is done. This is a one-time experiment. What is the best/quickest/easiest way to capture data like this? I've looked at various USB or LAN logic analyzer and 'scopes but most seem to work on batches of data. I need a continuous capture. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
Tom Van Baak wrote: I have a old data device that is spitting out TTL data at 10 MHz. There's just a data line (no clock) but the edges clearly indicate an internal 10 MHz clock. I'd like to do a continuous capture of the bits, for up to tens of minutes, into a PC. That comes to about 1 GB of raw data. I can handle the decoding of the bits in software after the capture is done. This is a one-time experiment. What is the best/quickest/easiest way to capture data like this? I've looked at various USB or LAN logic analyzer and 'scopes but most seem to work on batches of data. I need a continuous capture. /tvb Tom, The common way to do this is with a fast PCI analog input card. There are models that run at several tens of MSPS. You should be able to write a very small C application using their drivers to continuously log the digitized data to a file as binary or ASCII values. Here's a 30MSPS card: http://www.advantech.com/products/PCI-1714U/mod_GF-HQHV.aspx --David Forbes, Tucson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
Tom Van Baak skrev: I have a old data device that is spitting out TTL data at 10 MHz. There's just a data line (no clock) but the edges clearly indicate an internal 10 MHz clock. I'd like to do a continuous capture of the bits, for up to tens of minutes, into a PC. That comes to about 1 GB of raw data. I can handle the decoding of the bits in software after the capture is done. This is a one-time experiment. What is the best/quickest/easiest way to capture data like this? I've looked at various USB or LAN logic analyzer and 'scopes but most seem to work on batches of data. I need a continuous capture. Have a look at the GNSS sampler for instance. It can handle the data rate fairly easilly. A GNSS sampler would be easy to modify for this application. Using a standard 8 bit serdes clocking in at 10 MHz and outputing data in the rate of 1,25 MB would make it efficient. It's a standard USB chip in there and it handles continous streams fairly easilly. It's the same as in the software defined radio stuff, which would be another option. Regardless it would be able to handle your datastream without too much trouble. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
I have a old data device that is spitting out TTL data at 10 MHz. There's just a data line (no clock) but the edges clearly indicate an internal 10 MHz clock. I'd like to do a continuous capture of the bits, for up to tens of minutes, into a PC. That comes to about 1 GB of raw data. I can handle the decoding of the bits in software after the capture is done. This is a one-time experiment. Assuming this is a single data line, that's over 1MB per second, more than a traditional parallel port can easily handle. There are no cheap ubiquitous means to get that amount of data into a PC. The methods that I know of are expensive, either in money or engineering effort, including: - Get a digital I/O card. There are few of these around which can support your required data rate. One that I used in the distant past is the ADLink PCI-7200; I suspect NI may have a few offerings. You may have to DIY a shift register to get the data from serial to parallel. - Get a fast analog I/O card, record the data (now several GB worth) and apply some DSP to recover the digital data. This looks like a roundabout way, but analog I/O cards are more common and thus easier to borrow for an afternoon. Again NI has a few, but something like the HPSDR Mercury (http://www.hpsdr.org/) might work too; I'm not sure if the Mercury FPGA code can do 'wide' baseband sampling yet. A variant of this scheme would include a shift register and a simple D/A converter to get the rate down. - Build a board that converts the data stream to Ethernet or USB. I know of no COTS solutions for this, although I suspect the HPSDR Ozy FPGA can be re-coded to handle this. - Build a standalone data recorder, either with a microcontroller or CPLD/FPGA. JDB. [currently working on the standalone data recorder for a data capture application] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance
Ulrich, 2009/4/11 Ulrich Bangert df...@ulrich-bangert.de: Steve, It was probably the first real high level language that I got to play with and I have fond memories of it. I own a HP67 calculator and since when it came to the market I was too young to have the money to buy it, I have also lots of memories concerning these times. My first was a Ti-57 and spent many a happy hour writing things to fit 50 program steps. It had no means of storage so I had to type them in each time I wanted to run a program. The next was a HP65 that I love dearly and still have that to this very day. You'd have to prise it from my cold dead hands but it sits in a draw and others have taken the day to day work. I've been playing with Plotter.exe and it's a very fine tool. I can see it being very useful in the future for me. Best wishes, Steve Neverthelesss it is truly NOT the tool that I use today. Best regards Ulrich Bangert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Rooke Gesendet: Freitag, 10. April 2009 13:57 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance It was probably the first real high level language that I got to play with and I have fond memories of it. 73, Steve 2009/4/10 David C. Partridge david.partri...@dsl.pipex.com: PL/1 - now that brings back memories - nice language! Dave Partridge -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: 09 April 2009 12:36 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance If it was down to me I'd probably write everything in Forth or PL1. 73, Steve - ZL3TUV G8KVD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Hadamard variance
2009/4/11 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org: Point well taken. In that case we need a new deviation measurement with 4 elements then :-) Will not help to fully cancel the effect as crystal drift is a function of log. See Vig on crystal oscillators at IEEE UFFC pages. One needs to identify the drift shape, estimates its parameters and then remove the estimated value from phase or frequency data. I was not being serious Magnus, I did add the smiley. 73, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
Tom Van Baak wrote: I have a old data device that is spitting out TTL data at 10 MHz. There's just a data line (no clock) but the edges clearly indicate an internal 10 MHz clock. I'd like to do a continuous capture of the bits, for up to tens of minutes, into a PC. That comes to about 1 GB of raw data. I can handle the decoding of the bits in software after the capture is done. This is a one-time experiment. What is the best/quickest/easiest way to capture data like this? I've looked at various USB or LAN logic analyzer and 'scopes but most seem to work on batches of data. I need a continuous capture. /tvb Tom, As others have suggested, perhaps a Software Defined Receiver would do the trick. The best one on the market and the cheapest uses a very high speed A/D process for a range of 500Hz to 30MHz. Look at the following URL: http://www.rfspace.com/SDR-IQ.html BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
I am on the road right now, so I am not in front of it, but I have the HandyScope HS3 100MHz USB which can run a strip chart recorder for days / years if you like; depending on hard drive space. The strip chart may be only available at lower speeds? I dunno... I can't remember but the Handyscope supports both block transfer and streaming transfer over USB last I knew for certain speeds... They also have exposed functions available in the DLLs that can probably be accessed via standard ActiveX / COM methodologies from any language include VB, C# / C++, PERL (win32 OLE) etc. http://www.tiepie.com/uk/products/External_Instruments/ USB_Oscilloscope/Handyscope_HS3.html Maybe you have seen this one already... I dunno if it could work for you? maybe? Cheers, -chris On Apr 10, 2009, at 5:15 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Tom Van Baak skrev: I have a old data device that is spitting out TTL data at 10 MHz. There's just a data line (no clock) but the edges clearly indicate an internal 10 MHz clock. I'd like to do a continuous capture of the bits, for up to tens of minutes, into a PC. That comes to about 1 GB of raw data. I can handle the decoding of the bits in software after the capture is done. This is a one-time experiment. What is the best/quickest/easiest way to capture data like this? I've looked at various USB or LAN logic analyzer and 'scopes but most seem to work on batches of data. I need a continuous capture. Have a look at the GNSS sampler for instance. It can handle the data rate fairly easilly. A GNSS sampler would be easy to modify for this application. Using a standard 8 bit serdes clocking in at 10 MHz and outputing data in the rate of 1,25 MB would make it efficient. It's a standard USB chip in there and it handles continous streams fairly easilly. It's the same as in the software defined radio stuff, which would be another option. Regardless it would be able to handle your datastream without too much trouble. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
WB6BNQ wrote: Tom Van Baak wrote: I have a old data device that is spitting out TTL data at 10 MHz. There's just a data line (no clock) but the edges clearly indicate an internal 10 MHz clock. I'd like to do a continuous capture of the bits, for up to tens of minutes, into a PC. That comes to about 1 GB of raw data. I can handle the decoding of the bits in software after the capture is done. This is a one-time experiment. What is the best/quickest/easiest way to capture data like this? I've looked at various USB or LAN logic analyzer and 'scopes but most seem to work on batches of data. I need a continuous capture. /tvb Tom, As others have suggested, perhaps a Software Defined Receiver would do the trick. The best one on the market and the cheapest uses a very high speed A/D process for a range of 500Hz to 30MHz. Look at the following URL: http://www.rfspace.com/SDR-IQ.html BillWB6BNQ I forgot to point out that the price is $499.00. QUITE reasonable ! BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
At 14:31 -0700 10-04-2009, WB6BNQ wrote: As others have suggested, perhaps a Software Defined Receiver would do the trick. The best one on the market and the cheapest uses a very high speed A/D process for a range of 500Hz to 30MHz. Look at the following URL: http://www.rfspace.com/SDR-IQ.html Doesn't the SDR-IQ use an AD6620 digital downconverter to reduce the bandwidth to a few hundred kHz? I've never used it, but its block diagram would appear to suggest so, plus it uses a FT245RL USB interface which is limited to full speed USB (ie 12Mbit). If so, that's not enough bandwidth for Tom's 10Mbit/sec signal. JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
In message f75434b2bb1f4c31b339d06b495ed...@pc52, Tom Van Baak writes: What is the best/quickest/easiest way to capture data like this? I've looked at various USB or LAN logic analyzer and 'scopes but most seem to work on batches of data. I need a continuous capture. GNUradios USRP ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator
Hello Chuck, I have used the Advin programmers and have run into every problem you mentioned, and then some... And forget those little USB programmers... they can work for simple EPROMS, but get into anything else and all bets are off. I much prefer the Data I/O machines... warts and all. They are totally independent of the host machine for programming control (they only need a VT100 terminal emulator). And their pin drivers have not had to change in 25 years. The base machine holds up to 68 pin drivers. The Pinsite modules for doing non-dip packages expands on that. Biggest wart is the Unisite design has not changed in over 25 years. It still uses 720Kb floppies... really now... 720Kb floppies in the year 2009... but that is a non-issue if you have one with the Mass Storage Module (which even though it may have a 512 meg drive on it, only uses 80 meg... silly). Also 8 meg of RAM is a bit silly... but with the programmer under host PC control is not a problem. And don't get me started on those silly compression pad sockets... I've worn out more than one Drunken Russian Sailor's Guide to Curses and Taunts there. DIO makes their living gouging their customers on upgrades and socket adapters (hey, why charge $2000 for a programmer when you can charge $40,000+). If you have a software set that works for you, don't spend the 2 grand to upgrade. But DIO algorithm CDs regularly show up on Ebay for cheap. I have a net cost of around zero dollars (or possibly a small net profit) in my unit and adapters which would have cost over $80,000 if bought new from DIO. I built it up out of around 10 Ebay machines (which I stripped of unique adapters, cleaned up, tested, and then resold the remains). It supports over 25,000 devices with algorithms that are the gold standard in the industry. I have never run into a device that I can't program (except for the MCM2801 and SDA2006 very early serial EEPROMS (which I built my own programmers for)). I don't think the machine will do 1702's either, but I have never needed to do one. Mark _ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator
Hi David Thanks for taking the time to post. Have a great Easter-Patrick David C. Partridge wrote: Another one to look at apparently is the Galep model 4(LPT) or 5(USB). I don't have one but when this question was asked recently elsewhere, they were very highly recommended - and very good support. http://www.conitec.com/english/galep5.php Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims Sent: 10 April 2009 04:17 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator By far the best programmer on the planet is still the Data I/O Unisite (followed by the 3980, 3900, and 2900 prorgrammers). If a Unisite can't program it, you are in bad shape... it probably can't be programmed. Bad news is a refurbed Unisite will set you back $25,000 plus the cost of socket adapters and software. Good news is with a little shopping around on Ebay, you can possibly snag one for around $100. The trick is to find one with the socket adapters you need. Also the more pin driver cards it has installed, the better (a full load is 17 cards/68 pin drivers). Also, one with the internal hard drive (aka MSM, aka Mass Storage Module) is very desirable. Booting from a (720Kb only) floppy can take several minutes. I have purchased several machines just because they had an adapter that I did not have. Also you need to make sure it comes with a full set of programming software (generally, the later the version better) because a current software set from DIO will set you back over $2000... For more info, check out Bruce Lane's guide to DIO machines on Ebay: http://reviews.ebay.com/Data-I-O-Device-Programmers-A-Condensed-Reference_W0 QQugidZ101698682?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:3 _ Rediscover HotmailR: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Upd ates1_042009 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator
Sorry everyone I was sending out my thanks and I accidentally posted to the list-Patrick Patrick wrote: Hi David Thanks for taking the time to post. Have a great Easter-Patrick David C. Partridge wrote: Another one to look at apparently is the Galep model 4(LPT) or 5(USB). I don't have one but when this question was asked recently elsewhere, they were very highly recommended - and very good support. http://www.conitec.com/english/galep5.php Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims Sent: 10 April 2009 04:17 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator By far the best programmer on the planet is still the Data I/O Unisite (followed by the 3980, 3900, and 2900 prorgrammers). If a Unisite can't program it, you are in bad shape... it probably can't be programmed. Bad news is a refurbed Unisite will set you back $25,000 plus the cost of socket adapters and software. Good news is with a little shopping around on Ebay, you can possibly snag one for around $100. The trick is to find one with the socket adapters you need. Also the more pin driver cards it has installed, the better (a full load is 17 cards/68 pin drivers). Also, one with the internal hard drive (aka MSM, aka Mass Storage Module) is very desirable. Booting from a (720Kb only) floppy can take several minutes. I have purchased several machines just because they had an adapter that I did not have. Also you need to make sure it comes with a full set of programming software (generally, the later the version better) because a current software set from DIO will set you back over $2000... For more info, check out Bruce Lane's guide to DIO machines on Ebay: http://reviews.ebay.com/Data-I-O-Device-Programmers-A-Condensed-Reference_W0 QQugidZ101698682?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:3 _ Rediscover HotmailR: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Upd ates1_042009 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
-- Forwarded message -- From: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:38:55 -0700 Subject: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help I'd like to do a continuous capture of the bits, for up to tens of minutes, into a PC. That comes to about 1 GB of raw data. I can handle the decoding of the bits in software after the capture is done. This is a one-time experiment. What is the best/quickest/easiest way to capture data like this? I've looked at various USB or LAN logic analyzer and 'scopes but most seem to work on batches of data. I need a continuous capture. Maybe you can use one of those products: http://www.usbee.com/ just to not waste samples memory, you can deserialize the signal with a 8 bit Shift register and use the clock/8 as trigger for sampling received data. Unfortunately, the cheaper one (SX) lets you use only your PC memory as capture buffer. You have to resort to more expensive models to directly stream your data to HDD. Elio. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help
Hello Tom, Not sure if someone said this already, the Wavecrest units can sample your data. Up to 40K samples per second continuous according to their literature, via GPIB. Their PC application software (VISI) has a scope mode where you can make this data visible just like on a two-channel sampling scope. If you are lucky, you can pick one up for ~$500 on Ebay, or rent one. bye, Said In a message dated 4/10/2009 16:13:59 Pacific Daylight Time, elio...@gmail.com writes: -- Forwarded message -- From: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:38:55 -0700 Subject: [time-nuts] OT: 10 MHz data capture, help I'd like to do a continuous capture of the bits, for up to tens of minutes, into a PC. That comes to about 1 GB of raw data. I can handle the decoding of the bits in software after the capture is done. This is a one-time experiment. What is the best/quickest/easiest way to capture data like this? I've looked at various USB or LAN logic analyzer and 'scopes but most seem to work on batches of data. I need a continuous capture. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
