[time-nuts] My old new 53132A just arrived

Hi all, My first goal is to verify the frequency of my different RF sources : 4420B, some DDS, a N2PK VNA and ISOTEMP 134-10, the next step with the help of an Excel spread sheet to have some idea about their respective stability. Equipped with option 010, I would like to know how in which

Re: [time-nuts] My old new 53132A just arrived

Am 09.08.2010 14:15, schrieb Loïc MOREAU: Hi all, My first goal is to verify the frequency of my different RF sources : 4420B, some DDS, a N2PK VNA and ISOTEMP 134-10, the next step with the help of an Excel spread sheet to have some idea about their respective stability. Equipped with

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Food for thought. I find it interesting that no one has suggested alternatives to improving the performance of a pendulum clock other than controlling it with a higher performance clock. If the goal is a better clock why not attempt to understand the source of the errors and work on

Re: [time-nuts] My old new 53132A just arrived

Hi If you have been reading here for a while, you know that I would recommend a Thunderbolt to just about anybody. They are cheap (for what they are) and easy to find. My first suggestion would be a TBolt. Here's another approach: Do you really need accuracy, or is stability good enough? If

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Hi For that matter, how hard is it to put it in a vacuum with temperature control? Gets two big issues out of the way pretty fast. We certainly buy crystal oscillators that are heated and enclosed in pressure tight containers (not quite the same as vacuum, but close). Bob -Original

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Le 09/08/2010 18:46, Bob Holmstrom a écrit : Food for thought. I find it interesting that no one has suggested alternatives to improving the performance of a pendulum clock other than controlling it with a higher performance clock. If the goal is a better clock why not attempt to

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Unfortunately Gravity is not constant. Pendulum clocks show cyclic errors due to the influences of the Moon's and Sun's Gravitational fields. I forget the amounts but it is in the region of parts in 10 to the 7, which is easily measurable. This limits the compensations one can put into a pendulum

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

You could put a large mass of concrete or somehing above the clock and crank it up and down, to balance out the computed gravity changes. :) -John == Unfortunately Gravity is not constant. Pendulum clocks show cyclic errors due to the influences of the Moon's and Sun's

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

What happens when the rope breaks? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: 09 August 2010 19:10 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock You

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Not so simple... you should move it around in order to balance the gravity force vector :) Regards, Javier El 09/08/2010 20:09, J. Forster escribió: You could put a large mass of concrete or somehing above the clock and crank it up and down, to balance out the computed gravity changes. :)

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Time stands still. I later thought you could equally use a tank of mercury and pump it up and down. :) -John = What happens when the rope breaks? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: 09

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Personally, I would get out of the way. : ) Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on Behalf Of Ian Sheffield Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:17 PM To: j...@quik.com; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re:

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Advisable given the required mass will probably be in the 10-100 ton range. Bruce J. L. Trantham, M. D. wrote: Personally, I would get out of the way. : ) Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on Behalf Of Ian Sheffield Sent:

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

This limits the compensations one can put into a pendulum clock unless you actually build compensation for those effects too :) I would think the timing of gravitational effects of the moon and the sun can be easily predicted. I am not sure the amplitude of these effects can be precisely

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Ahhh, this is more like it! Large gears and thick ropes moving heavy weights up and down. :) Of course, you wouldn't want anything digital doing this. Just a large pendulum clock driving a maze of gears that calculate solar and lunar positions. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: J.

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Oh Dear! What have I started? ;-) -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bill Hawkins Sent: 09 August 2010 21:36 To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

[time-nuts] My old new 53132A just arrived

Bonsoir Loïc, and congratulations for your new, nice device. You should order the T.Bolt from fluke.l on e...y, standard easy kit with power supply and antenna, just working fine, The LCD monitor is also quite handy. You may also order an LPRO 101 Rb standard from him, so you have always a

Re: [time-nuts] My old new 53132A just arrived

On 08/09/2010 11:54 PM, Dr. Frank Stellmach wrote: Bonsoir Loïc, and congratulations for your new, nice device. You should order the T.Bolt from fluke.l on e...y, standard easy kit with power supply and antenna, just working fine, The LCD monitor is also quite handy. You may also order an LPRO

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Nah! No ropes or gears. Just a SS tank on steel stilts and a big mercury reservoir and a pump. And it might not have to hold tons. Think of a hollow SS donut with the pendulum in the clear space. KISS, -John === Ahhh, this is more like it! Large gears and thick ropes moving

Re: [time-nuts] Gears.....Digital??

I visited a house in Holland where the whole ceiling was one great solar system display and the attic a maze of geared mechanisms to control it all. Supposedly all that needed to be done was to repaint each decade the year plank that moved along counting the years. Strange that a man would

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

There are many pieces of technology developed in the 20th century that have not been applied to pendulum clocks. My take on much of the technology is that it is too volatile to be of use in making a better clock. The task is not to keep better time, that has already been done with

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Hi Ian, Unfortunately Gravity is not constant. Pendulum clocks show cyclic errors due to the influences of the Moon's and Sun's Gravitational fields. I forget the amounts but it is in the region of parts in 10 to the 7, which is easily measurable. This limits the compensations one can

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Hi Putting a computing device on a pendulum to compensate for known effects is really no different than what you do with a analog or digital TCXO. I suspect that the gravitational impact of the sun and moon can be calculated with pretty good precision. The same would be true of secondary

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

In principle, there is no real reason a Rb, Cs, ot atomic fountain could not be made to last a very, very long time in a lab. It would certainly be possible to design a source that is either continuously fed from the outside or a pair of sources that can be changed to maintain continuous

Re: [time-nuts] Gears.....Digital??

Not surprising at all. It's called an Orrery (After the Earl of Orrery, I believe) and it's not all that hard to do, especially if you approximate with circular orbits and don't try to do ALL the moons or deal with the rotation of the planet itself. Getting within a fraction of a percent is

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Bob Holmstrom wrote: Food for thought. I find it interesting that no one has suggested alternatives to improving the performance of a pendulum clock other than controlling it with a higher performance clock. If the goal is a better clock why not attempt to understand the source of the

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Bob Camp wrote: Hi For that matter, how hard is it to put it in a vacuum with temperature control? Gets two big issues out of the way pretty fast. We certainly buy crystal oscillators that are heated and enclosed in pressure tight containers (not quite the same as vacuum, but close). Bob

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Ian Sheffield wrote: What happens when the rope breaks? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: 09 August 2010 19:10 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Regulating

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Javier Herrero wrote: Not so simple... you should move it around in order to balance the gravity force vector :) Regards, Javier two large masses rotating around the pendulum, one synchronized with the sun, one sync'd with the moon. Having just looked up the orrery stuff, a suitable

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Bruce Griffiths wrote: Advisable given the required mass will probably be in the 10-100 ton range. Bruce J. L. Trantham, M. D. wrote: Personally, I would get out of the way. : ) Joe Wait a minute.. is it that big? or is it much, much bigger.. Inverse square is involved. The moon's mass

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

I screwed up by a factor of a million.. jimlux wrote: Bruce Griffiths wrote: Advisable given the required mass will probably be in the 10-100 ton range. Bruce J. L. Trantham, M. D. wrote: Personally, I would get out of the way. : ) Joe Wait a minute.. is it that big? or is it much,

Re: [time-nuts] digital....gears

A quick review of my pictures of the visit to the Eisinga Planetarium, especially of the attic mechanism now make me think that his mechanism is a mix of digital gears and analog string driven mechanisms. I'm still amazed at his work. N0UU ___

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

All this talk about regulating a pendulum clock... are you people buying them, building them, or what? I'm interested! I keep thinking about it and something keeps bringing me back to the bob being a neodymium magnet itself. I'm sure you can guess where I'm headed with that... 73 Brice

Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock

Oh, yeah. A combined gravity and earth's magnetic field detector. A 1 second pendulum will be driven using a Nd magnet about the size of 1/2 a pencil eraser :-) Don - Original Message - From: Heathkid heath...@heathkid.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes

I tried water, then isopropyl, but what worked was a quick cleaning with a white eraser. Leigh/WA5ZNU On 08/06/2010 08:15 AM, Ed Palmer wrote: You mean they are tinned? I received my two boards a couple of days ago. I thought that they missed the tinning solution. There's just an