Re: [time-nuts] OCXO in 14DIP
Wow, what has made you think that this list is intended to sell something? Anyway, are you sure that an 14DIP OCXO suits your needs? What will drive the EFC? On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 3:50 AM, Geraldo Lino de Campos gera...@decampos.net wrote: I am in the time-nuts list, and interested in buying 10 26 MHz OCXO. Payment by Paypal, shipping to Brazil by USPS, with tracking number. What will be the price? Do you have the full part number, including the EFC range? -- Geraldo Lino de Campos gera...@decampos.net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OCXO in 14DIP
Geraldo, This list is not a place to order parts. If you want to do that then look to www.mouser.com or www.digikey.com as they are parts distributors. If you are trying to ask a technical question, then please provide MUCH more details as to your intended purpose and needs. That way people can make intelligent suggestions if they so desire. BillWB6BNQ Geraldo Lino de Campos wrote: I am in the time-nuts list, and interested in buying 10 26 MHz OCXO. Payment by Paypal, shipping to Brazil by USPS, with tracking number. What will be the price? Do you have the full part number, including the EFC range? -- Geraldo Lino de Campos gera...@decampos.net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OCXO in 14DIP
Sorry for the noise. The mail was intend to be private to peterl at standingwave.org. On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Geraldo Lino de Campos gera...@decampos.net wrote: I am in the time-nuts list, and interested in buying 10 26 MHz OCXO. Payment by Paypal, shipping to Brazil by USPS, with tracking number. What will be the price? Do you have the full part number, including the EFC range? -- Geraldo Lino de Campos gera...@decampos.net -- Geraldo Lino de Campos gera...@decampos.net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Good morning, Recently physicists using a neutrino beam from Geneva Switzerland to the Gran Sasso in Italy have reported a measurement of neutrino velocity that is faster than the speed of light. The effect over a 730 km path length is reported as 60 ns, which means that precise timing is required at both ends of the beam to have sensitivity to this effect. The reported result, if true, has major implications for the fundamental understanding of physics. Thus, it is important to carry out independent checks of this measurement. A similar beam exists between Fermi National Accelerator Lab in Batavia IL and the University of Minnesota's Underground Laboratory at Soudan in northeastern Minnesota. This U.S. beam has been used to make a similar measurement, but the GPS timing equipment that was used (Truetime XL-AK, Model 600-101-015) resulted in an estimated uncertainty of about 70 ns in the neutrino time-of-flight, too large to test the recently reported effect. I am one of a group of physicists working with the neutrino beam in the U.S. Although we are also talking with professionals at USNO and NIST, I am interested in possible suggestions from the Time Nut community with respect to the following: (a) the possibility of retrospectively improving the existing timing data recorded since 2005 using the Truetime XL-AK, and (b) a quick, low-cost improvement in the timing instrumentation that can be made right away, pending arrangements for techniques such as Two-Way Satellite synchronization. In addition, if there are any Time Nuts in the Minnesota area who would like to get more involved in this project, please feel free to contact me at mars...@umn.edu Thank you very much. Marvin Marshak Marvin L. Marshak College of Science and Engineering Professor Morse-Alumni Professor University of Minnesota 116 Church Street SE Minneapolis MN 55455 612-624-1312 612-624-4578 (fax) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Hi The quick and dirty way to improve the timing is pretty old school. Toss a modern Cesium clock in the back of a car along with a bunch of batteries. Drive it back and forth between Batavia and Soudan. If you drive fast, that should be about an 8 hour trip. A good Cesium should hold 5 to 10X better than the GPS is now doing. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Marvin Marshak Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 11:53 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing Good morning, Recently physicists using a neutrino beam from Geneva Switzerland to the Gran Sasso in Italy have reported a measurement of neutrino velocity that is faster than the speed of light. The effect over a 730 km path length is reported as 60 ns, which means that precise timing is required at both ends of the beam to have sensitivity to this effect. The reported result, if true, has major implications for the fundamental understanding of physics. Thus, it is important to carry out independent checks of this measurement. A similar beam exists between Fermi National Accelerator Lab in Batavia IL and the University of Minnesota's Underground Laboratory at Soudan in northeastern Minnesota. This U.S. beam has been used to make a similar measurement, but the GPS timing equipment that was used (Truetime XL-AK, Model 600-101-015) resulted in an estimated uncertainty of about 70 ns in the neutrino time-of-flight, too large to test the recently reported effect. I am one of a group of physicists working with the neutrino beam in the U.S. Although we are also talking with professionals at USNO and NIST, I am interested in possible suggestions from the Time Nut community with respect to the following: (a) the possibility of retrospectively improving the existing timing data recorded since 2005 using the Truetime XL-AK, and (b) a quick, low-cost improvement in the timing instrumentation that can be made right away, pending arrangements for techniques such as Two-Way Satellite synchronization. In addition, if there are any Time Nuts in the Minnesota area who would like to get more involved in this project, please feel free to contact me at mars...@umn.edu Thank you very much. Marvin Marshak Marvin L. Marshak College of Science and Engineering Professor Morse-Alumni Professor University of Minnesota 116 Church Street SE Minneapolis MN 55455 612-624-1312 612-624-4578 (fax) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Le 24/10/2011 19:03, Bob Camp a écrit : Hi The quick and dirty way to improve the timing is pretty old school. Toss a modern Cesium clock in the back of a car along with a bunch of batteries. Drive it back and forth between Batavia and Soudan. If you drive fast, that should be about an 8 hour trip. A good Cesium should hold 5 to 10X better than the GPS is now doing. Better to take three. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Boy I have to say that I agree with Bob. Nice and simple, but a boring drive and heavens who has budgets for the tickets? Looked at a map and though I could see either a dark fiber type connection $, or radio at 400 miles. Transmitter reference at 200 miles could give a common view. They grow really tall TV towers in the midwest. Certainly 50 MHz and reasonable power would be stable. I wonder about jitter in the various technologies of the radio recvr. But with a CS/Rb ref. the system could be quite good. Way back when ran a repeater at 145 Mhz for data with directive antennas in Michigan. Ant at 60'. Very stable coverage at 140 Miles. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:22 PM, mike cook michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote: Le 24/10/2011 19:03, Bob Camp a écrit : Hi The quick and dirty way to improve the timing is pretty old school. Toss a modern Cesium clock in the back of a car along with a bunch of batteries. Drive it back and forth between Batavia and Soudan. If you drive fast, that should be about an 8 hour trip. A good Cesium should hold 5 to 10X better than the GPS is now doing. Better to take three. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
That will only work at the time you get there, which may not be the time of the experiment. I think they need a more permanent solution. Didier KO4BB Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:03:58 To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'time-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing Hi The quick and dirty way to improve the timing is pretty old school. Toss a modern Cesium clock in the back of a car along with a bunch of batteries. Drive it back and forth between Batavia and Soudan. If you drive fast, that should be about an 8 hour trip. A good Cesium should hold 5 to 10X better than the GPS is now doing. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Marvin Marshak Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 11:53 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing Good morning, Recently physicists using a neutrino beam from Geneva Switzerland to the Gran Sasso in Italy have reported a measurement of neutrino velocity that is faster than the speed of light. The effect over a 730 km path length is reported as 60 ns, which means that precise timing is required at both ends of the beam to have sensitivity to this effect. The reported result, if true, has major implications for the fundamental understanding of physics. Thus, it is important to carry out independent checks of this measurement. A similar beam exists between Fermi National Accelerator Lab in Batavia IL and the University of Minnesota's Underground Laboratory at Soudan in northeastern Minnesota. This U.S. beam has been used to make a similar measurement, but the GPS timing equipment that was used (Truetime XL-AK, Model 600-101-015) resulted in an estimated uncertainty of about 70 ns in the neutrino time-of-flight, too large to test the recently reported effect. I am one of a group of physicists working with the neutrino beam in the U.S. Although we are also talking with professionals at USNO and NIST, I am interested in possible suggestions from the Time Nut community with respect to the following: (a) the possibility of retrospectively improving the existing timing data recorded since 2005 using the Truetime XL-AK, and (b) a quick, low-cost improvement in the timing instrumentation that can be made right away, pending arrangements for techniques such as Two-Way Satellite synchronization. In addition, if there are any Time Nuts in the Minnesota area who would like to get more involved in this project, please feel free to contact me at mars...@umn.edu Thank you very much. Marvin Marshak Marvin L. Marshak College of Science and Engineering Professor Morse-Alumni Professor University of Minnesota 116 Church Street SE Minneapolis MN 55455 612-624-1312 612-624-4578 (fax) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Although we are also talking with professionals at USNO and NIST, I am interested in possible suggestions from the Time Nut community with respect to the following: (a) the possibility of retrospectively improving the existing timing data recorded since 2005 using the Truetime XL-AK, and (b) a quick, low-cost improvement in the timing instrumentation that can be made right away, pending arrangements for techniques such as Two-Way Satellite synchronization. In addition, if there are any Time Nuts in the Minnesota area who would like to get more involved in this project, please feel free to contact me at mars...@umn.edu Thank you very much. Marvin Marshak Hi Marvin, Thanks for contacting the list about this. We've discussed the topic somewhat a month ago, as well as a number of emails off-list with the folks at CERN/LNGS. NIST should be able to lend you one or two of their calibrated common view systems. USNO has a traveling TWSTT van and you can find out when it is next in the midwest. Let me know if you need contact info for either lab. How soon would you like to do the synchronization? Our kids are in school right now but we have a Thanksgiving break soon. Using the same clocks as http://leapsecond.com/great2005/ I can calibrate the MINOS path to 2 ns. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:52:51 -0500 Marvin Marshak mars...@umn.edu wrote: A similar beam exists between Fermi National Accelerator Lab in Batavia IL and the University of Minnesota's Underground Laboratory at Soudan in northeastern Minnesota. This U.S. beam has been used to make a similar measurement, but the GPS timing equipment that was used (Truetime XL-AK, Model 600-101-015) resulted in an estimated uncertainty of about 70 ns in the neutrino time-of-flight, too large to test the recently reported effect. I am one of a group of physicists working with the neutrino beam in the U.S. Although we are also talking with professionals at USNO and NIST, I am interested in possible suggestions from the Time Nut community with respect to the following: I and probably most others are not familiar with your measurement setup. Could you at least provide a link to a paper that describes how your time transfer/synchronisation setup looks like? Also, what data have you recorded during your experiments? What of this data is still available? (a) the possibility of retrospectively improving the existing timing data recorded since 2005 using the Truetime XL-AK, and I currently only see one possibility to improve the timing data if you have recorded the satelite phase data at both sites with each time stamp. I know that with this, you can get a damn good precision in positioning (a group at the ETH in Zürich uses this to get sub cm positioning with standard LEA6-T modules, without any assisting technologies). I'm quite sure this could be translated to timing presission as well. (b) a quick, low-cost improvement in the timing instrumentation that can be made right away, pending arrangements for techniques such as Two-Way Satellite synchronization. Without knowing your exact setup, it's hard to say. But first i'd try to improve the oscilator stability in the XL-AK (ie use a rubidium). Maybe it would also need a firmware change to really make use of this enhancement. Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
I have a more basic time-nut question. Why is it a problem at all? How can the time uncertainty between two known and fixed locations be that large? If they know they have a 70ns uncertainty in time, that would suggest that their time measurement is known to be varying at one or both places. Is this just from a spec or do they see a true variation in time between something, and if so compared to what? Is this time difference or variation between several difference timing devices at each end or is it variation when compared to time of flight of the supposedly same neutrinos? I can not say anything about the accuracy of my absolute time, but the difference and uncertainly comparing the phase difference between different external Osc Tbolts at the same location is way way under 70ns. Sure lots of BASIC things to do to make sure the two Tbolts are set the same so that their oscillator's phase do they agree, such as using the same type antenna and same cable and length, and getting the antenna's location correct, etc, etc, but basic stuff and seems like if using the same basic GPS system at two different locations, what would the additional problems be except to make sure both ends are syncing on the same 100ns 10MHz cycle. I was under the impression that getting down to ns uncertainly differences (and staying there) at theses distances is old stuff using common view GPS. So what are the problems that cause their large timing uncertainty? ws * Good morning, Recently physicists using a neutrino beam from Geneva Switzerland to the Gran Sasso in Italy have reported a measurement of neutrino velocity that is faster than the speed of light. The effect over a 730 km path length is reported as 60 ns, which means that precise timing is required at both ends of the beam to have sensitivity to this effect. The reported result, if true, has major implications for the fundamental understanding of physics. Thus, it is important to carry out independent checks of this measurement. A similar beam exists between Fermi National Accelerator Lab in Batavia IL and the University of Minnesota's Underground Laboratory at Soudan in northeastern Minnesota. This U.S. beam has been used to make a similar measurement, but the GPS timing equipment that was used (Truetime XL-AK, Model 600-101-015) resulted in an estimated uncertainty of about 70 ns in the neutrino time-of-flight, too large to test the recently reported effect. I am one of a group of physicists working with the neutrino beam in the U.S. Although we are also talking with professionals at USNO and NIST, I am interested in possible suggestions from the Time Nut community with respect to the following: (a) the possibility of retrospectively improving the existing timing data recorded since 2005 using the Truetime XL-AK, and (b) a quick, low-cost improvement in the timing instrumentation that can be made right away, pending arrangements for techniques such as Two-Way Satellite synchronization. In addition, if there are any Time Nuts in the Minnesota area who would like to get more involved in this project, please feel free to contact me at marshak at umn.edu Thank you very much. Marvin Marshak ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] re Nutrino Timing
I thought I might share this with you :- Barman Sorry sir, we don't serve nutrinos here...! A nutrino walks into a bar... ;-) Steve -- RIP Dennis Richie, I'm sure you will still be cutting code somewhere out there in the universe. You gave the world C and taught me a lot. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Ed, On 10/25/2011 12:07 AM, ed breya wrote: I am not familiar with the experiment, so I have to ask some dumb questions: First, I wonder how the beam is generated at the source, and then detected at the receiving end, and how the launch and arrival events are determined with high certainty in the first place. I assume the neutrinos come from a nuclear or particle accelerator reaction, and are produced either randomly or on demand. If they are random, then their existence and direction must be detected as the start event, but if produced on demand, then the start time is known and controlled. If the latter is true, then maybe the beam itself can be modulated somehow to carry some of the desired time and frequency information, or otherwise help to improve the measurement. I assume that it must already be controlled to some extent in time and amplitude in order to see an effect above the background level at the detector. Do read the article in question. You would love to see the graphs and texts. It's quite readable. The SPS produces 400 GeV/c protons which is extracted by a kicker magnet in two 10,5 us long bursts, 50 ms apart. See page 4 of 1109.4897v1. http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.4897 Contol is well timed with the Xli GPS receiver. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Russian GPSDO
Attila, I finally got around to reading the uBlox application note on their GPS receiver made specifically for timing. Did I miss it or do they not offer TRAIM in their receiver? I can't believe they would claim it to be for timing without TRAIM capability. Regards, Doug, K4CLE Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless -Original message- From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 09:03:40 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Russian GPSDO On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 14:47:43 -0400 (EDT) saidj...@aol.com wrote: Hi Attila, In a message dated 10/20/2011 22:28:19 Pacific Daylight Time, att...@kinali.ch writes: That's also my impression. It was only after i had a longer discussion with one of the user support guys about the exact specs of the 6T that they measured and provided a document with more than just we have 12ns jitter. Though the document is still not what i expect, it's infinitely better than before. please share the document with us. Oh, it's easy to find in the appnotes section on the ublox homepage: http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/Timing_AppNote_%28GPS.G6- X-11007%29.pdf BTW: if someone who has a better understanding of timing issues could provide a list on how to improve that appnote, i'd be happy to contact ublox and work with them to get us more and better information. Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Sounds like a good excuse to build a moon base... Think big. The experiment has been done over 168,000 light years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_1987A The neutrinos got here 3 hours before the light. (Empty space isn't really empty. The dielectric constant slows the light down a tiny tiny bit.) -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
If I'm doing my math right, the supernova is a 2.03e-9 discrepancy(3/24/365/168000). CERN's discrepancy was 2.464e-5 (60e-9/2.435e-3) That's nearly 4 orders of magnitude more dramatic. Thanks, -JP On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.netwrote: Sounds like a good excuse to build a moon base... Think big. The experiment has been done over 168,000 light years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_1987A The neutrinos got here 3 hours before the light. (Empty space isn't really empty. The dielectric constant slows the light down a tiny tiny bit.) -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Think big. The experiment has been done over 168,000 light years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_1987A The neutrinos got here 3 hours before the light. (Empty space isn't really empty. The dielectric constant slows the light down a tiny tiny bit.) Hal, Ah, you're assuming the neutrinos came out of the supernova at the same time as the light. I've read that this is not the case. By their nature neutrinos can make it out of that explosion immediately but it takes a while for the light or other particles to migrate their way out from the core. In which case you would expect to see the neutrinos first. This applies to time interval measurement too. The best way to measure interval is use two equivalent detectors; one near and one far, but both away from the source. That way you get two fair in-flight measurements. Using some implied internal trigger and just one far detector may give misleading results. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
My bet is on an experimental error. That is the safe bet. I hope I loose because this being real faster than light neutrinos would be a lot of fun. If true my off the cuff guess is that this proves the existence of dimensions higher than four. These are tiny and some closed shape. most mater takes some long path through these and all the particles that do interact, neutrinos don't take the long path and thereby miss most mater and don't interact with it. Either they don't move in that dimension or they take a bee-line Under special relatively the speed of all particles is a constant, C (This is why nothing can exceed C because everything in the universe moves at constant speed (not constant velocity) of C. If the Neutrinos really are fast then my guess is that the constant C holds in more than four dimension. So this result would not disprove Einstein, it would generalize the theory to n4 dimensions. The neutrinos, like every other particle pin the universe are moving at exactly C through 10-space. (OK I guessed at the number 10 but n-space where n4) I think this has to be the simplest possible explanation. Short path through dimensions 4 explains both the apparent faster than light speed (that is not faster than C in n-space) and why neutrinos don't interact with matter very much. I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this. It fall out obviously if you let N be 4 On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 6:06 PM, ed breya e...@telight.com wrote: Fascinating stories. It looks like they covered all the bases, so if correct, then it should have a big impact on physics. I can only conclude one of the following: 1. There is some undiscovered measurement error or effect that accounts for the discrepancy. 2. The data are correct and the neutrinos can exceed c, or distort space-time so that it appears that way. 3. Neutrinos actually do interact with matter more than supposed, and in unusual ways. This would mean that rock would have a negative index of refraction to neutrinos. It's too bad the equipment has to be gigantic. If the beam line could be built vertically, it could be fired through the entire earth instead, to a detector on the opposite side, getting about sixteen times more distance. I wonder what the beam dispersion is for those things. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
