On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:42:31 +
li...@lazygranch.com wrote:
Sadly, the last scope I bought was a Chinese Rigol. (I do have real
scopes too.) It is getting to the point where Rigol and Instek will make
buying boat anchors a thing of the past.
What's the quality of those chinese scopes?
I
What's the quality of those chinese scopes?
http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2012-January/061925.html
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On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 09:46:27AM +0200, Attila Kinali wrote:
Sadly, the last scope I bought was a Chinese Rigol. (I do have real
scopes too.) It is getting to the point where Rigol and Instek will make
buying boat anchors a thing of the past.
What's the quality of those chinese scopes?
I did want to add to my earlier comments that I have 3 radio clocks and all
worked during this time. So from the east coast it seems the modulation
does not effect radio clocks.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Jim Hickstein j...@jxh.com wrote:
psk fixer-uppers not working
Bill Hawkins wrote:
I can tell you that the vent stack exists solely to prevent siphoning
water out of J and P traps while water is running.
You could tell me that, but your statement would be in error.
To wit, were it not for the stack vents, houses with septic systems (which
because of
I often smile secretly at those who tout the latest asian stuff. It may be
small, light, and look like a 'puter, but it doesn't compare for bench use
to a Tek 7000 series similar vintage portables.
Going through layer after layer of ever more obtuse menus is just not
'user friendly' to me. Maybe
On Apr 14, 2012, at 10:45 PM, Shaun Merrigan wrote:
Just wondering if anyone on the list is monitoring their WWVB gear at the
moment? I got in a bit late, but I have been recording my 8170 since about
0300 and it has remained locked. QTH here is about 1500km north of Ft.
Collins.
Spectracom
I have the latest and greatest from both Tek and Agilent at work,
designed and made right here in the states. They suffer from menu-itis
just like the chinese stuff does. My Tek DSA 72004 at work is a
complete PITA to use unless I have the mouse and keyboard attached. In
my opinion, it's just how
On 4/16/12 8:19 AM, Eric Garner wrote:
I have the latest and greatest from both Tek and Agilent at work,
designed and made right here in the states. They suffer from menu-itis
just like the chinese stuff does. My Tek DSA 72004 at work is a
complete PITA to use unless I have the mouse and
I was speaking several years ago to someone at Tektronix and asked why they did
not still make an analog scope.
He told me cost was the reason, simply price; to make a modern version of the
7104 or 2467B would cost nearly as much as an Italian sports car.
I have the Latest 40Gs/s scope and it
On 04/16/2012 03:46 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
What's the quality of those chinese scopes?
I have one of the Rigol 2 channel 100 MHz 1GHz sampling rate scopes.
Can't recall the model number. It's the one that either HP or Tek
private labels.
It is superb. It was with great sadness that I
You know, I have a 1Gig Tek digital (DSA602 with 11A72/11A71,11A34) on my
bench and a 1G Tek analog (7934). The 7934 never gets fired up anymore. I
really should reclaim the space.
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote:
I was speaking several years ago to someone
In message 4f8c3ecd.1080...@neon-john.com, NeonJohn writes:
There is a rumor that one also needs an analog scope.
Where analog scopes generally win is in X-Y mode, most digitals I've
seen suck at that.
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p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP
Fellow Nutters,
A friend of mine (not on this list) wants to revive his interest in ham radio.
He lives in Friendswood, Texas (zip: 77546).
If you would be willing to help him get re-started in the hobby, please reply to
me off list and I will get you together with him.
Thanks!
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Bob Smither,
At eevblog.com forum Chinese scopes are a daily discussion for over 3 years.
In summary, in the = 100 MHz level they are very cost effective but there are
better and worse. Rigol, Owon and Hantek are on par while Atten and Uni-T are
consistently rated less. The criteria for rating them are
FWIW the 3000 series Agilents were rebadged Rigols. The newer entry levels to
mid-range scopes are now all designed and built by Agilent in their Malaysia
plant.
At 08:00 04/16/2012, you wrote:
--
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16
j...@quikus.com said:
Going through layer after layer of ever more obtuse menus is just not 'user
friendly' to me. Maybe it is to the designers, because they are used to a
10,000+ character alphabet?
How much of that is because you want to use fancy features that didn't even
exist on older
At eevblog.com forum Chinese scopes are a daily discussion for over 3
years.
In summary, in the = 100 MHz level they are very cost effective but there
are better and worse. Rigol, Owon and Hantek are on par while Atten and
Uni-T are consistently rated less. The criteria for rating them are
j...@quikus.com said:
Going through layer after layer of ever more obtuse menus is just not
'user
friendly' to me. Maybe it is to the designers, because they are used to
a
10,000+ character alphabet?
How much of that is because you want to use fancy features that didn't
even exist on
Heard a story of someone who went to a high performance driving school
for racers. One of the specialty cars had an encounter with a wall and
was out of service so the instructor grabbed an ordinary street rental
car from the lot. Everyone laughed until the instructor out-drove them all.
If
On 4/16/2012 1:47 PM, Marvin Gozum wrote:
At eevblog.com forum Chinese scopes are a daily discussion for over 3 years.
In summary, in the= 100 MHz level they are very cost effective but there are
better and worse. Rigol, Owon and Hantek are on par while Atten and Uni-T are
consistently rated
Interesting read but have not figured out the MIT loran thread part of the
header. This is about chinese scopes
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 2:27 PM, John Ackermann N8UR j...@febo.com wrote:
On 4/16/2012 1:47 PM, Marvin Gozum wrote:
At eevblog.com forum Chinese scopes are a daily discussion for
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
I would actually like to know why many seem to feel that a 500 MHz analog
'scope is not good enough for what you really do in your lab?
Well... if i had a 500MHz analog scope, i wouldnt want anything better..
ok, well
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 17:47:37 +
Marvin Gozum marvin.go...@jefferson.edu wrote:
At eevblog.com forum Chinese scopes are a daily discussion for over 3 years.
In summary, in the = 100 MHz level they are very cost effective but
there are better and worse. Rigol, Owon and Hantek are on par
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:32:07 -0400
paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Interesting read but have not figured out the MIT loran thread part of the
header. This is about chinese scopes
This is because i forked of the MIT loran thread. Ie i replied to a mail
in the MIT loran thread that
IMO, the place you really need 2-4 channels is logic analyzers, not 'scopes.
YMMV,
-John
On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
I would actually like to know why many seem to feel that a 500 MHz
analog
'scope is not good enough for
I just can't help it. I like moving the mouse pointer over the slider
and clicking or moving or just typing in a value. My latest scope
(Bitscope)is from Australia, cost $250 inflated $ and all functions are
done via PC. In addition, there is a dll if I want to roll my own app,
and a suite of apps
Alas, those are the UI issues I suggested in my post, fonts is one of them,
there aren't any others in the 1000s series. You can change the 'skins' in the
utility menu. Fonts are one advantage of Owon or Hantek, plus they offer
larger LCDs.
The flicker is from the slow sampling rate at
Sorry john, that's more what I meant, by accuracy and precision I imply its
faithful to the signal you choose to examine, free of artifacts induced by the
scopes timebase or vertical amp, but with DSOs its limited by Nyquist sampling
rules.
Thus, sampling rate is as important a feature as a
On 2012/04/16 10:41, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
Spectracom 8182 relocked at 1403Z today.
8164 and 8170 still unlocked at 1955Z. Maybe they stay locked during the day,
just barely? (8164 AGC 1.3V, a few days ago), but can't lock up from unlocked
easily. We'll see what the dark-path
I'd have a hard time doing a lot of what I do with an analog scope. I
have a lot of logic running at high frequency, and find myself
triggering on single pulse events that happen infrequently. The
advanced triggering options of digital scopes make seeing these events
possible. Just the pulse
Fired up the spectracom 8170 locked in 3-4 minutes on the east coast near
boston.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Jim Hickstein j...@jxh.com wrote:
On 2012/04/16 10:41, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
Spectracom 8182 relocked at 1403Z today.
8164 and 8170 still
OK. IMO, there is another, perhas a more important, issue memory depth.
Most digital scopes I've seen, and some LAs too, just don't have enough
depth for my taste, so they undersample and guess.
Tek did make the RTD-710A high speed transient data digitizer that had 64
MB of 12 (?) bit RAM.
I bought one of the 50 MHz versions at Dayton last year. OK for my needs. Not
mentioned here is that the difference between the 50 and 100 MHz scopes is
software control of roll off on the input. I haven't done it, but procedure
was available on the WEB on how to spoof the software.
N0UU
I would actually like to know why many seem to feel that a 500 MHz analog
'scope is not good enough for what you really do in your lab?
Older 'scopes didn't NEED to re-allocate memory, or use peak modes to
avoid sampling artifacts.
I can think of 3 reasons why I like digital scopes:
In a message dated 16/04/2012 22:15:50 GMT Daylight Time,
lstosk...@cox.net writes:
I bought one of the 50 MHz versions at Dayton last year. OK for my needs.
Not mentioned here is that the difference between the 50 and 100 MHz
scopes is software control of roll off on the input. I
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 16, 2012, at 11:03 AM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
I often smile secretly at those who tout the latest asian stuff. It may be
small, light, and look like a 'puter, but it doesn't compare for bench use
to a Tek 7000 series similar vintage portables.
Going
Chinese scopes and menus
In modern asian culture it's a highly valued skill to be able to memorize menu
selections which are deeply nested And many asian designs actually increase the
number of menus to cater to this
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 16, 2012, at 11:03 AM, J. Forster
That simply is not the case with the Rigol scope. I was able to use it
without opening the manual.
On 4/16/2012 4:33 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
Chinese scopes and menus
In modern asian culture it's a highly valued skill to be able to memorize menu
selections which are deeply nested And many
Hi John
Not sure if this a response to my post or if the timing's just coincidence,
either way I still contend the Rigols offer a lot of bangs per buck but
that one still has to be very aware of the limitations.
Never any free lunches, but the snacks are sometimes quite good value:-)
Ah! That explains inscruitable VCR menus.
-John
===
Chinese scopes and menus
In modern asian culture it's a highly valued skill to be able to memorize
menu selections which are deeply nested And many asian designs actually
increase the number of menus to cater to this
Sent
IMO, a good UI should be entirely obvious. I learnt to use a Tek 503 in
about 1963. Everything after that has been obvious, until the
'puter'scopes.
The problem with nested menus is knowing where the dang thing you want is,
or worse, that some setting or other even exists.
Have you explored all
Please don't interpret what I said to mean that no 'scope is better than
an asian one.
Without question, any halfway capable product is far better than nothing.
But, IMO, a high end (used) analog scope beats the newer mid range digital
scopes.
Furtheremore, if you really don't know what you're
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 05:51:13PM +, Marvin Gozum wrote:
FWIW the 3000 series Agilents were rebadged Rigols. The newer entry levels
to mid-range scopes are now all designed and built by Agilent in their
Malaysia plant.
This means two things: I now know why the overall quality is really
Does anyone remember the HP 1980B Digital O'scope? This had to be the
worst scope UI ever. There was only one knob and buttons for everything
else.
Mike
On 4/16/2012 7:04 PM, J. Forster wrote:
IMO, a good UI should be entirely obvious. I learnt to use a Tek 503 in
about 1963. Everything
Ah but a UI is as much a cultural thing as technical we all learned systems
which valued a interface which visually displayed all parameters both set and
ranges on individual controls.
In Asia where rote memorization and Obedience is valued uses overloaded
controls with deep menus. If you
- Original Message -
From: gary li...@lazygranch.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
That simply is not the case with the Rigol scope. I was able to use it
Yep and sounded like bbs on a tin roof with all the relays in the thing!
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 16, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Michael Blazer mbla...@satx.rr.com wrote:
Does anyone remember the HP 1980B Digital O'scope? This had to be the worst
scope UI ever. There was only one knob and buttons
Magnus,
With the help of others, I have installed a Lamp Assembly in my 'parts'
5065A with the donation of parts from my 'mule' 5065A. I found several
other problems, repaired them and, now, have a 'new 5065A, and, a 'spare'
A15 board.
It is 'high mileage', discolored, but it works, at least
You may be onto something w/ the cultural thing.
In the US, we buy a toy and just expect it to work right out of the package.
In asia, they might actually read the instructions before unpacking the
hardware.
Have you ever read the user's manual for your SW? I certainly have not,
beyond looking
To bring this full circle, a friend bought a very clean, working 465 for
$50 at MIT.
-John
- Original Message -
From: gary li...@lazygranch.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:43 PM
High speed without storage is really junk. You just can't do much with them.
I recall a PO to fix an old 7904 in the 1980 running about $1500. Serious money
back then. I bet they are unrepairable today.
-Original Message-
From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com
Sender:
On Apr 16, 2012, at 10:23 PM, J. Forster wrote:
To bring this full circle, a friend bought a very clean, working 465 for
$50 at MIT.
I passed on a clean 454 for $35; I was sorely tempted, but other items had
priority in my budget.
Didn't see any 7000-series scopes, and not too much in the
To bring this full circle, a friend bought a very clean, working 465 for $50
at MIT.
Did that include probes? :)
Good probes are probably worth more than that even without the scope.
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
lstoskopf@... writes:
I bought one of the 50 MHz versions at Dayton last year. OK for my needs.
Not mentioned here is that the difference between the 50 and 100 MHz scopes
is software control of roll off on the input. I haven't done it,
but procedure was available on the WEB on how to
Hi, time-nuts guys nichgeek on ebay also sent me the datasheet OCXO VECTRON
OCILLATOR giveaway with FE-5680A purchase on EBAY. Anyone interested email me.
kenkub...@hotmail.com
Ken Kubick, AES
___
Hi guys,
I am very partial to the HP Denali 54720D scope which is available on Ebay
in varius forms for around $1500.
This $50K+ when-new scope is very easy to use, has many low cost plug ins,
8GS/s with up to 2GHz Bandwidth plug ins available, and the amazing 54701A
FET probe. Support
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