[time-nuts] eLORAN checked not on the air

2012-09-05 Thread paul swed
Hello to the group
There was a question a bit back as to if eLORAN was on the air.
Just checked this evening and its not on the air in the US.
Will check tomorrow during the day as often they only operated during the
day.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

There's actually a prior paper on the "figure 1" amp.

Bob

On Sep 5, 2012, at 6:38 PM, David  wrote:

> It is even more difficult when the schematic is wrong like in figure 1
> where the emitter and collector of the PNP are reversed.
> 
> On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 16:26:04 -0600, Tom Knox 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi Bob;
>> There are many designs I have seen employed at NIST that have low phase 
>> noise and low noise floor.  But it is often not that easy to build a working 
>> prototype that actual achieves those levels of performance. power supply 
>> design, parts layout, shielding, and part selection all play a substantial 
>> role in achieving that level of performance. 
>> 
>> Thomas Knox
>> 
>>> From: li...@rtty.us
>>> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:05:41 -0400
>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> The NIST bipolar designs can indeed do better than a good quality OCXO for 
>>> short term and close in phase noise. If you have a wide band floor at -185 
>>> dbc/Hz on your OCXO they aren't quite up to that level. 
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Tom Knox  wrote:
>>> 
 
 I have seen that many commercial ref distribution amps are not as good as 
 a quality low phase noise 5 or 10MHz oscillator, considering the time and 
 resources that went into their design 
 I think it would be difficult to design a amp capable of distributing 
 something much cleaner then a LPRO.  
 Thomas Knox
 
 
 
> From: li...@rtty.us
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 17:37:34 -0400
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.
> 
> Hi
> 
> You *can* get the job done with a CMOS inverter biased up and filtered. 
> An op amp is likely not as good as the full bipolar approach and may be 
> better / worse than the gate depending on exactly what you are looking at.
> 
> Bob
> 
> On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Michael Tharp  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 09/05/2012 12:46 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> There are a number of discrete transistor buffers that have very good
>>> isolation and short term stability / phase noise performance. I'd take a
>>> look at the one from the NIST papers and Bruce's more modern re-design. 
>>>  All
>>> are in the archives. http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/498.pdf is a
>>> pretty good place to start.
>>> 
>>> Mostly what they do is to run a common emitter amplifier followed by 
>>> several
>>> common base amplifiers. They may or may not follow that with a buffer. 
>>> Each
>>> channel gets a separate string of amplifiers. All the common emitter 
>>> amps
>>> are driven in parallel by the reference source.
>>> 
>>> The transistors used are normally cheap stuff like the 2N3904. Except 
>>> for
>>> the power supply nothing in the circuit costs much. None of it is hard 
>>> to
>>> find.
>> 
>> For an integrated (op-amp) solution, how does OPA830 stack up? I'm 
>> trying one out for a GPSDO design to buffer the signal from the OCXO for 
>> 50 ohm output, but I may also build a distribution amplifier at some 
>> point.
>> 
>> At $1.91 for single pieces on Digi-Key it's not terribly expensive, but 
>> something cheaper could probably get the job done. There are also dual 
>> and quad versions (OPA2830 and OPA4830).
>> 
>> -- m. tharp
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread David
It is even more difficult when the schematic is wrong like in figure 1
where the emitter and collector of the PNP are reversed.

On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 16:26:04 -0600, Tom Knox 
wrote:

>
>Hi Bob;
>There are many designs I have seen employed at NIST that have low phase noise 
>and low noise floor.  But it is often not that easy to build a working 
>prototype that actual achieves those levels of performance. power supply 
>design, parts layout, shielding, and part selection all play a substantial 
>role in achieving that level of performance. 
>
>Thomas Knox
>
>> From: li...@rtty.us
>> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:05:41 -0400
>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> The NIST bipolar designs can indeed do better than a good quality OCXO for 
>> short term and close in phase noise. If you have a wide band floor at -185 
>> dbc/Hz on your OCXO they aren't quite up to that level. 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Tom Knox  wrote:
>> 
>> > 
>> > I have seen that many commercial ref distribution amps are not as good as 
>> > a quality low phase noise 5 or 10MHz oscillator, considering the time and 
>> > resources that went into their design 
>> > I think it would be difficult to design a amp capable of distributing 
>> > something much cleaner then a LPRO.  
>> > Thomas Knox
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> From: li...@rtty.us
>> >> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 17:37:34 -0400
>> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.
>> >> 
>> >> Hi
>> >> 
>> >> You *can* get the job done with a CMOS inverter biased up and filtered. 
>> >> An op amp is likely not as good as the full bipolar approach and may be 
>> >> better / worse than the gate depending on exactly what you are looking at.
>> >> 
>> >> Bob
>> >> 
>> >> On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Michael Tharp  
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> On 09/05/2012 12:46 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>>  Hi
>>  
>>  There are a number of discrete transistor buffers that have very good
>>  isolation and short term stability / phase noise performance. I'd take a
>>  look at the one from the NIST papers and Bruce's more modern re-design. 
>>   All
>>  are in the archives. http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/498.pdf is a
>>  pretty good place to start.
>>  
>>  Mostly what they do is to run a common emitter amplifier followed by 
>>  several
>>  common base amplifiers. They may or may not follow that with a buffer. 
>>  Each
>>  channel gets a separate string of amplifiers. All the common emitter 
>>  amps
>>  are driven in parallel by the reference source.
>>  
>>  The transistors used are normally cheap stuff like the 2N3904. Except 
>>  for
>>  the power supply nothing in the circuit costs much. None of it is hard 
>>  to
>>  find.
>> >>> 
>> >>> For an integrated (op-amp) solution, how does OPA830 stack up? I'm 
>> >>> trying one out for a GPSDO design to buffer the signal from the OCXO for 
>> >>> 50 ohm output, but I may also build a distribution amplifier at some 
>> >>> point.
>> >>> 
>> >>> At $1.91 for single pieces on Digi-Key it's not terribly expensive, but 
>> >>> something cheaper could probably get the job done. There are also dual 
>> >>> and quad versions (OPA2830 and OPA4830).
>> >>> 
>> >>> -- m. tharp

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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Rex

A couple links on what Bob is referencing:

http://www.ko4bb.com/~bruce/IsolationAmplifiers.html

http://www.ke5fx.com/norton.htm


On 9/5/2012 9:46 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

There are a number of discrete transistor buffers that have very good
isolation and short term stability / phase noise performance. I'd take a
look at the one from the NIST papers and Bruce's more modern re-design.  All
are in the archives. http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/498.pdf is a
pretty good place to start.

Mostly what they do is to run a common emitter amplifier followed by several
common base amplifiers. They may or may not follow that with a buffer. Each
channel gets a separate string of amplifiers. All the common emitter amps
are driven in parallel by the reference source.

The transistors used are normally cheap stuff like the 2N3904. Except for
the power supply nothing in the circuit costs much. None of it is hard to
find.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Rui Martins
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:19 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

Bob and Paul,



I have at moment 6 equipment's maximum which I want sync with 10MHZ only.

The video distribution is an idea but the kit from Ve2zaz have other way but
the problem is the isolation.

I have 2 independent Nortel GPSTM but I don't need redundancy for the job.

G3ruh and ve2zaz Kits and rubidium oscillators only for analyzing the data
and compare.

I will use one of them with a doubler to get 20MHZ for driving a transceiver
(Crazy huh).

Any ideas will be considered.



Regards



CT1EBH

Rui Jorge Martins

Proudly user of FT-ONE, FT-980, FT736R, FT726R, FT-2000 and FL-7000

73!







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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Tom Knox

Hi Bob;
There are many designs I have seen employed at NIST that have low phase noise 
and low noise floor.  But it is often not that easy to build a working 
prototype that actual achieves those levels of performance. power supply 
design, parts layout, shielding, and part selection all play a substantial role 
in achieving that level of performance. 

Thomas Knox



> From: li...@rtty.us
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:05:41 -0400
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.
> 
> Hi
> 
> The NIST bipolar designs can indeed do better than a good quality OCXO for 
> short term and close in phase noise. If you have a wide band floor at -185 
> dbc/Hz on your OCXO they aren't quite up to that level. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Tom Knox  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I have seen that many commercial ref distribution amps are not as good as a 
> > quality low phase noise 5 or 10MHz oscillator, considering the time and 
> > resources that went into their design 
> > I think it would be difficult to design a amp capable of distributing 
> > something much cleaner then a LPRO.  
> > Thomas Knox
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> From: li...@rtty.us
> >> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 17:37:34 -0400
> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.
> >> 
> >> Hi
> >> 
> >> You *can* get the job done with a CMOS inverter biased up and filtered. An 
> >> op amp is likely not as good as the full bipolar approach and may be 
> >> better / worse than the gate depending on exactly what you are looking at.
> >> 
> >> Bob
> >> 
> >> On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Michael Tharp  
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> On 09/05/2012 12:46 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>  Hi
>  
>  There are a number of discrete transistor buffers that have very good
>  isolation and short term stability / phase noise performance. I'd take a
>  look at the one from the NIST papers and Bruce's more modern re-design.  
>  All
>  are in the archives. http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/498.pdf is a
>  pretty good place to start.
>  
>  Mostly what they do is to run a common emitter amplifier followed by 
>  several
>  common base amplifiers. They may or may not follow that with a buffer. 
>  Each
>  channel gets a separate string of amplifiers. All the common emitter amps
>  are driven in parallel by the reference source.
>  
>  The transistors used are normally cheap stuff like the 2N3904. Except for
>  the power supply nothing in the circuit costs much. None of it is hard to
>  find.
> >>> 
> >>> For an integrated (op-amp) solution, how does OPA830 stack up? I'm trying 
> >>> one out for a GPSDO design to buffer the signal from the OCXO for 50 ohm 
> >>> output, but I may also build a distribution amplifier at some point.
> >>> 
> >>> At $1.91 for single pieces on Digi-Key it's not terribly expensive, but 
> >>> something cheaper could probably get the job done. There are also dual 
> >>> and quad versions (OPA2830 and OPA4830).
> >>> 
> >>> -- m. tharp
> >>> 
> >>> ___
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to 
> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
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> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >   
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> > and follow the instructions there.
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> 
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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

The NIST bipolar designs can indeed do better than a good quality OCXO for 
short term and close in phase noise. If you have a wide band floor at -185 
dbc/Hz on your OCXO they aren't quite up to that level. 

Bob

On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Tom Knox  wrote:

> 
> I have seen that many commercial ref distribution amps are not as good as a 
> quality low phase noise 5 or 10MHz oscillator, considering the time and 
> resources that went into their design 
> I think it would be difficult to design a amp capable of distributing 
> something much cleaner then a LPRO.  
> Thomas Knox
> 
> 
> 
>> From: li...@rtty.us
>> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 17:37:34 -0400
>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> You *can* get the job done with a CMOS inverter biased up and filtered. An 
>> op amp is likely not as good as the full bipolar approach and may be better 
>> / worse than the gate depending on exactly what you are looking at.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Michael Tharp  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 09/05/2012 12:46 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 There are a number of discrete transistor buffers that have very good
 isolation and short term stability / phase noise performance. I'd take a
 look at the one from the NIST papers and Bruce's more modern re-design.  
 All
 are in the archives. http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/498.pdf is a
 pretty good place to start.
 
 Mostly what they do is to run a common emitter amplifier followed by 
 several
 common base amplifiers. They may or may not follow that with a buffer. Each
 channel gets a separate string of amplifiers. All the common emitter amps
 are driven in parallel by the reference source.
 
 The transistors used are normally cheap stuff like the 2N3904. Except for
 the power supply nothing in the circuit costs much. None of it is hard to
 find.
>>> 
>>> For an integrated (op-amp) solution, how does OPA830 stack up? I'm trying 
>>> one out for a GPSDO design to buffer the signal from the OCXO for 50 ohm 
>>> output, but I may also build a distribution amplifier at some point.
>>> 
>>> At $1.91 for single pieces on Digi-Key it's not terribly expensive, but 
>>> something cheaper could probably get the job done. There are also dual and 
>>> quad versions (OPA2830 and OPA4830).
>>> 
>>> -- m. tharp
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Tom Knox

I have seen that many commercial ref distribution amps are not as good as a 
quality low phase noise 5 or 10MHz oscillator, considering the time and 
resources that went into their design 
I think it would be difficult to design a amp capable of distributing something 
much cleaner then a LPRO.  
Thomas Knox



> From: li...@rtty.us
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 17:37:34 -0400
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.
> 
> Hi
> 
> You *can* get the job done with a CMOS inverter biased up and filtered. An op 
> amp is likely not as good as the full bipolar approach and may be better / 
> worse than the gate depending on exactly what you are looking at.
> 
> Bob
> 
> On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Michael Tharp  wrote:
> 
> > On 09/05/2012 12:46 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> >> Hi
> >> 
> >> There are a number of discrete transistor buffers that have very good
> >> isolation and short term stability / phase noise performance. I'd take a
> >> look at the one from the NIST papers and Bruce's more modern re-design.  
> >> All
> >> are in the archives. http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/498.pdf is a
> >> pretty good place to start.
> >> 
> >> Mostly what they do is to run a common emitter amplifier followed by 
> >> several
> >> common base amplifiers. They may or may not follow that with a buffer. Each
> >> channel gets a separate string of amplifiers. All the common emitter amps
> >> are driven in parallel by the reference source.
> >> 
> >> The transistors used are normally cheap stuff like the 2N3904. Except for
> >> the power supply nothing in the circuit costs much. None of it is hard to
> >> find.
> > 
> > For an integrated (op-amp) solution, how does OPA830 stack up? I'm trying 
> > one out for a GPSDO design to buffer the signal from the OCXO for 50 ohm 
> > output, but I may also build a distribution amplifier at some point.
> > 
> > At $1.91 for single pieces on Digi-Key it's not terribly expensive, but 
> > something cheaper could probably get the job done. There are also dual and 
> > quad versions (OPA2830 and OPA4830).
> > 
> > -- m. tharp
> > 
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

You *can* get the job done with a CMOS inverter biased up and filtered. An op 
amp is likely not as good as the full bipolar approach and may be better / 
worse than the gate depending on exactly what you are looking at.

Bob

On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Michael Tharp  wrote:

> On 09/05/2012 12:46 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> There are a number of discrete transistor buffers that have very good
>> isolation and short term stability / phase noise performance. I'd take a
>> look at the one from the NIST papers and Bruce's more modern re-design.  All
>> are in the archives. http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/498.pdf is a
>> pretty good place to start.
>> 
>> Mostly what they do is to run a common emitter amplifier followed by several
>> common base amplifiers. They may or may not follow that with a buffer. Each
>> channel gets a separate string of amplifiers. All the common emitter amps
>> are driven in parallel by the reference source.
>> 
>> The transistors used are normally cheap stuff like the 2N3904. Except for
>> the power supply nothing in the circuit costs much. None of it is hard to
>> find.
> 
> For an integrated (op-amp) solution, how does OPA830 stack up? I'm trying one 
> out for a GPSDO design to buffer the signal from the OCXO for 50 ohm output, 
> but I may also build a distribution amplifier at some point.
> 
> At $1.91 for single pieces on Digi-Key it's not terribly expensive, but 
> something cheaper could probably get the job done. There are also dual and 
> quad versions (OPA2830 and OPA4830).
> 
> -- m. tharp
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Michael Tharp

On 09/05/2012 12:46 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

There are a number of discrete transistor buffers that have very good
isolation and short term stability / phase noise performance. I'd take a
look at the one from the NIST papers and Bruce's more modern re-design.  All
are in the archives. http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/498.pdf is a
pretty good place to start.

Mostly what they do is to run a common emitter amplifier followed by several
common base amplifiers. They may or may not follow that with a buffer. Each
channel gets a separate string of amplifiers. All the common emitter amps
are driven in parallel by the reference source.

The transistors used are normally cheap stuff like the 2N3904. Except for
the power supply nothing in the circuit costs much. None of it is hard to
find.


For an integrated (op-amp) solution, how does OPA830 stack up? I'm 
trying one out for a GPSDO design to buffer the signal from the OCXO for 
50 ohm output, but I may also build a distribution amplifier at some point.


At $1.91 for single pieces on Digi-Key it's not terribly expensive, but 
something cheaper could probably get the job done. There are also dual 
and quad versions (OPA2830 and OPA4830).


-- m. tharp

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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Hahn, Ron


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of Rui Martins
Sent: 05 September 2012 15:19
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

Bob and Paul,

 

I have at moment 6 equipment's maximum which I want sync with 10MHZ only.

The video distribution is an idea but the kit from Ve2zaz have other way but
the problem is the isolation.

I have 2 independent Nortel GPSTM but I don't need redundancy for the job.

G3ruh and ve2zaz Kits and rubidium oscillators only for analyzing the data
and compare.

..snip..

Rui,

It might be helping if you included web links to the two kits above.

Ron EI2JP

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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

There are a number of discrete transistor buffers that have very good
isolation and short term stability / phase noise performance. I'd take a
look at the one from the NIST papers and Bruce's more modern re-design.  All
are in the archives. http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/498.pdf is a
pretty good place to start.

Mostly what they do is to run a common emitter amplifier followed by several
common base amplifiers. They may or may not follow that with a buffer. Each
channel gets a separate string of amplifiers. All the common emitter amps
are driven in parallel by the reference source.

The transistors used are normally cheap stuff like the 2N3904. Except for
the power supply nothing in the circuit costs much. None of it is hard to
find.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Rui Martins
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:19 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

Bob and Paul,

 

I have at moment 6 equipment's maximum which I want sync with 10MHZ only.

The video distribution is an idea but the kit from Ve2zaz have other way but
the problem is the isolation.

I have 2 independent Nortel GPSTM but I don't need redundancy for the job.

G3ruh and ve2zaz Kits and rubidium oscillators only for analyzing the data
and compare.

I will use one of them with a doubler to get 20MHZ for driving a transceiver
(Crazy huh).

Any ideas will be considered.

 

Regards

 

CT1EBH

Rui Jorge Martins

Proudly user of FT-ONE, FT-980, FT736R, FT726R, FT-2000 and FL-7000

73!

 

 

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To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.



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Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-05 Thread Rui Martins
Bob and Paul,

 

I have at moment 6 equipment's maximum which I want sync with 10MHZ only.

The video distribution is an idea but the kit from Ve2zaz have other way but
the problem is the isolation.

I have 2 independent Nortel GPSTM but I don't need redundancy for the job.

G3ruh and ve2zaz Kits and rubidium oscillators only for analyzing the data
and compare.

I will use one of them with a doubler to get 20MHZ for driving a transceiver
(Crazy huh).

Any ideas will be considered.

 

Regards

 

CT1EBH

Rui Jorge Martins

Proudly user of FT-ONE, FT-980, FT736R, FT726R, FT-2000 and FL-7000

73!

 

 

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[time-nuts] Notice of Interruption to MSF 60 kHz Time and Frequency Signal

2012-09-05 Thread David J Taylor

Notice of Interruption to MSF 60 kHz Time and Frequency Signal

The MSF 60 kHz time and frequency signal broadcast from Anthorn Radio 
Station will be shut down over the period:


13 September 2012
from 10:00 BST until 14:00 BST

The interruption to the transmission is required to allow maintenance work 
to be carried out in safety.


Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk 



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