Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
kuze...@gmail.com said: And that's with a $6 navigation GPS thingy (USB puck-type NMEA-only) Where did you get one for $6? What make/model/brand? That's navigation... Timing mode only needs 1 satellite lock after all, and I suspect I will at minimum be able to get needed 1 satellite lock with nearly any active GPS antenna. Timing mode also needs special firmware. I haven't seen any of the low cost units that come with timing mode. Does anybody have a favorite low cost timing mode unit? How about one with minimal soldering required? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
From: Hal Murray [] Timing mode also needs special firmware. I haven't seen any of the low cost units that come with timing mode. Does anybody have a favorite low cost timing mode unit? How about one with minimal soldering required? Hal, I see Trimble Resolution T Timing GPS module 12ns 1pps on eBay. There were some Resolution SMT units available recently as well, but they seem to have run out now. Interface boards were offered on this list. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
Take care that the 1 satellite timing mode comes after having seens more than 4 satellites for at least 1 seconds (usually, or greater). You can't start a timing mode receiver with 1 satellite. On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 9:46 AM, David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: From: Hal Murray [] Timing mode also needs special firmware. I haven't seen any of the low cost units that come with timing mode. Does anybody have a favorite low cost timing mode unit? How about one with minimal soldering required? ==**== Hal, I see Trimble Resolution T Timing GPS module 12ns 1pps on eBay. There were some Resolution SMT units available recently as well, but they seem to have run out now. Interface boards were offered on this list. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Odetics 365
You are measuring your counter stability, not the GPSDO stability. A locked GPSDO is way better than any free running counter if driven by its internal timebase oscillator. On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Rob S. robe...@dcsi.net.au wrote: Hello Group, first time post I have just got my Odetics 365 working again after it being packed away for a few years. I have it connected to a HP 5386A frequency counter and am monitoring the 10 MHz output ( down to 0.01 Hz res ). I am noticing the frequency is drifting about 1.5 to 2 Hz over the day and settling low for a few hours ( aprox midday ) and then settling high about 12 hours later. The 365 is showing TFOM4 and Time locked, has a GDOP of 3.68 and displays a frequency error of +2.98E-013 and a Std error of Est of 4.80E-008. The averaging is turned off and it see's 3 to 5 satellites continuously. My question is would this be normal behavior ( + or - 2 Hz ) for this type of equipment or is it looking like I have something that is drifting a bit ? Also would switching the averaging on help ? Any thoughts would be appreciated Group, Thanks and Cheers, Rob. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
On 10/18/2012 6:17 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Take care that the 1 satellite timing mode comes after having seens more than 4 satellites for at least 1 seconds (usually, or greater). You can't start a timing mode receiver with 1 satellite. Yes, you can. You only need to tell it its own coordinates, or have them previously stored in the unit. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
OK, unless you have the coordinates of your antenna position... and here comes the difficult move: how can I have the coordinates of an indoor antenna that can't receive the required satellites? Starting from a suitable outdoor position then using precise length and angle measurements, yes, it can be done. On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: On 10/18/2012 6:17 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Take care that the 1 satellite timing mode comes after having seens more than 4 satellites for at least 1 seconds (usually, or greater). You can't start a timing mode receiver with 1 satellite. Yes, you can. You only need to tell it its own coordinates, or have them previously stored in the unit. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
Hi This comes back to the what are you trying to do? question. If the target is better than 1 ms, then the location does not have to be all that accurate. You can get within a hundred meters using a good map, and some care about coordinate systems. That's adequate for a 1 ms design. Without an adequate description of the objective, it's very hard to rule in / rule out any design details. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 11:25 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock) OK, unless you have the coordinates of your antenna position... and here comes the difficult move: how can I have the coordinates of an indoor antenna that can't receive the required satellites? Starting from a suitable outdoor position then using precise length and angle measurements, yes, it can be done. On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: On 10/18/2012 6:17 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Take care that the 1 satellite timing mode comes after having seens more than 4 satellites for at least 1 seconds (usually, or greater). You can't start a timing mode receiver with 1 satellite. Yes, you can. You only need to tell it its own coordinates, or have them previously stored in the unit. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tim e-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
OK, unless you have the coordinates of your antenna position... and here comes the difficult move: how can I have the coordinates of an indoor antenna that can't receive the required satellites? Starting from a suitable outdoor position then using precise length and angle measurements, yes, it can be done. Azelio, Assuming this thread is still about NTP -- you wouldn't need an accurate indoor position; any nearby outdoor position would work fine. Use google maps, for example. Realize that an error of a couple tens or even a hundred meters will not affect NTP performance. Take care that the 1 satellite timing mode comes after having seens more than 4 satellites for at least 1 seconds (usually, or greater). You can't start a timing mode receiver with 1 satellite. Note that all the original NBS GPS receivers were single channel receivers. The beauty of using satellites for time transfer is that you only need one. Sure, more is usually better, but one is sufficient. Even today many labs use GPS common view, where the position is hard-coded and timing is derived from one SV alone, or each SV independently, or a post-processed combination of all SV in view. I say all this to emphasize the difference between satellite(s) for navigation and for time transfer. Another timely analogy for you is Galileo. GIOVE-A was launched in 2005 and several years later GIOVE-B. The first two real SV in the system were launched just a week ago! So it will still be some time before you can use Galileo for car navigation, but since even the first SV was in orbit it can be used for time transfer. BTW, here's a great opportunity for one of you EU-based time-nuts -- be the first to report some timing from the first two Galileo satellites. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
OK, indeed I was assuming to have the PPS with the best precision anyway. Well, in this case I agree. Galileo? Yes, I can try with the LEA-5T. I have to figure out how to set it so that only Galileo SVs are received. And: I don't think Galileo is meant for EU only, you can test it too. Are the actual Galileo orbits set up so that they are not available to US? It is time for me to take a look to the Galileo system... On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: OK, unless you have the coordinates of your antenna position... and here comes the difficult move: how can I have the coordinates of an indoor antenna that can't receive the required satellites? Starting from a suitable outdoor position then using precise length and angle measurements, yes, it can be done. Azelio, Assuming this thread is still about NTP -- you wouldn't need an accurate indoor position; any nearby outdoor position would work fine. Use google maps, for example. Realize that an error of a couple tens or even a hundred meters will not affect NTP performance. Take care that the 1 satellite timing mode comes after having seens more than 4 satellites for at least 1 seconds (usually, or greater). You can't start a timing mode receiver with 1 satellite. Note that all the original NBS GPS receivers were single channel receivers. The beauty of using satellites for time transfer is that you only need one. Sure, more is usually better, but one is sufficient. Even today many labs use GPS common view, where the position is hard-coded and timing is derived from one SV alone, or each SV independently, or a post-processed combination of all SV in view. I say all this to emphasize the difference between satellite(s) for navigation and for time transfer. Another timely analogy for you is Galileo. GIOVE-A was launched in 2005 and several years later GIOVE-B. The first two real SV in the system were launched just a week ago! So it will still be some time before you can use Galileo for car navigation, but since even the first SV was in orbit it can be used for time transfer. BTW, here's a great opportunity for one of you EU-based time-nuts -- be the first to report some timing from the first two Galileo satellites. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Sarah White kuze...@gmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/17/2012 6:04 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: ((...snip...)) -- 1 Indoor antennas can work. It depands on the details. Hopefully the skylight looks to the south. BTW that thin sheet of plastic that makes the skylight window will not protect from lightening. It makes little difference. ((...snip...)) -- 2 It means those plug-in power suply boxes that plug into a wall outlet and have a coaxial power plug. They are use to power cell phone charges and notebook computers and you name it. Most people have many of those around the hose. The output voltage will be printed in the cube (part 1) This is a glass skylight window, not plastic. Same thing. Lighten does not care to much about a sheet of glass, after all it has already arced across 20,000 feet of air. It is really unpredictable. Even it it hits the furnace vent on the root your TV gets fried. I would not worry to much unless you live in Florida or some place like that. Back to GPS. The antenna a good chunk of the sky. The GPS satellites don't fly over the poles so there is no use looking there, nothing for the antenna to see but if you look south the sats fly clear down tho the horizon. So South facing windows are better then north facing if you have a choice. If you are 100% indoors you don't need one of those pointy antennas and can use a cheaper patch type. You can duct tape it to the window Also, the skylight window in question is not the highest point on the roof, there is a domed metal cover on an exhaust fan vent thingy... Regardless though, landlord won't allow things to go on roof or in the yard so I'm stuck with using the window. ... Basically, this way I won't have to consider any waterproofing for the antenna, and just hope that if lightning strikes it goes for the exhaust vent dome thingy instead... Ah well whatever. My plan remains unchanged in this regard --- it is going to be in one of the south-facing (roof is angled) skylight windows. (part 2) For phone chargers... Not lately, no. Both my phone, and the person I'm living with Have a modern phone. For the past couple years, phone device manufacturers give you a very tiny USB-type AC Plug and play timing GPS system are not so cheap, even on eBay. But they are made by HP and others. By plug and play I mean it comes in a metal box with connectors for all the inputs and outputs See eBay # 280921147498 the iLotus m12m is a great GPS and cost only $60 new but read the user manual at this page and you see it is not plug and play http://www.ilotus.com.sg/m12m_timing_oncore But yu are in luck, iLotus does sell an M12M evaluation kit that is ready to use http://www.ilotus.com.sg/m12m_uart_evaluation_kit but the price is higher. The Thunder bolt is a very populate GPS. It is still one of the best. Lots of people on eBy sell them as a kit withj all the parts you need. pretty much conect the wires and turn it on. See eBay # 180446371977 the seller has already modified an old computer notebook power supply so you don't have to find the right one and change the connector. About those power cubes. If you don't have a box full of old ones, yes you have to buy one but they cost less than $10 new. I almost always have to cut off the connector because it is the wrong type. If you can't do that buy t plug and play GPS system. I did most of the work myself, got an older UT type Oncore for $15, had a box of power cubes and so on. It cost less that way but I keep an electronics bench set up with solder stationm a bunch of meters a scope two shelves of test equipment and I studied electrical enginerin and computer science in school (decades ago) So for me a $60 budget is reasonable, for you $300 to $400 is reasonable. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
albertson.ch...@gmail.com said: But yu are in luck, iLotus does sell an M12M evaluation kit that is ready to use http://www.ilotus.com.sg/m12m_uart_evaluation_kit but the price is higher. That web page says: SiRF Oncore(tm) Software What's the relation between SiRF and i-Lotus? Anybody know the price on the evaluation package? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
azelio.bori...@screen.it said: OK, unless you have the coordinates of your antenna position... and here comes the difficult move: how can I have the coordinates of an indoor antenna that can't receive the required satellites? It depends upon how bad your indoor setup is. Mine is poor, not horrible. I just have to wait a long time for the survey to work. Occasionally it finds enough satellites to make some progress. After the survey finishes, it mostly works, switching to holdover occasionally. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 10811 Tuning Diode
Hello, I found the 10811 in my 8662A to be quite noisy and was able to trace the problem down to the tuning diode. Actually, the phase noise started to jump when the oven heated up. As a quick solution, I replaced it with a SMD type that I had at hands. I would appreciate any hint where to find an original diode (even though I could leave it as is). As by the manual, the original is a '0122-0244 DIODE-VVC 100PF 5% C4/C25-MIN=2 BVR-30V Mfr. 28480' Mfr. 28480 is listed as HP, but the diode is marked 'M' for Motorola and '0244' and '312'. Adrian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/18/2012 3:33 AM, Hal Murray wrote: ((...snip...)) Where did you get one for $6? What make/model/brand? ((...snip...)) Does anybody have a favorite low cost timing mode unit? How about one with minimal soldering required? http://www.ankaka.com/usb-gps-receiver-for-computers-laptop-worked-as-gps-navigator_p46411.html AGI-G217 USB GPS Receiver ... on the USB side of things, it shows up as prolific 2303: PL-2303 USB-to-Serial drivers are a PITA (pain in the backside) to find though / the website for drivers changed. Apparently, the current list price is $40 USD / wholesale for cheaper ... not sure what the deal I got was. Mine might've fallen off a truck or something shady to explain inventory loss. Really not sure. oops ... somehow I ONLY paid for shipping. Really can't explain why or what happened: $6.76 shipped via sendfromchina.com and tracking via hongkongpost.com It's not timing mode though... As for your second question low cost timing mode unit? How about one with minimal soldering required? Basically, motorola oncore variants such as the M12+T / M12M ... or UT or otherwise... The ones I was originally talking about in this thread / earlier post... These can KINDA be found for less than $100 and I'm starting to think that's probably as far down as low cost can get for timing mode. ((digitally signed)) Sarah White -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJQgFjqAAoJEL5NTv0FKXxn4nAP/Rb0UoOk/NH9Sedb160gAXYA 1g+zBw6wsJFuE2VbuDmyFGLl1DzW9dm6w4noge0LK2WowQnActXCwtYyStpiguh1 x+9jKGXYXmT6butO/0TzsUQbfo1Uclcuo1lxXMNJ9Wa1a/7+eUMpvB8nwjP3QZdd zer7LzvTN2nwBgTECezyWoFxLfKi8ofo+3Zgw/+4nguh2Ml00xDkwDpxC9YR3SoW uV1rFD5tHBRiaabKHrbHydDe94X5aAZuC4dNKcsMvKbFiQPMRhUWAgwkNAGRZUY5 /CCxJxlkRmpWnPZgDNfBYc/+9NwGJgNQ1uTE1KRa1Kuofqk3kTlmRMf022nWKaLy zBSC34+80XzFCBnpAvzxVYwEXq3hH5eCqARjyoomEevyvFehd96CpB7aCnMim+L+ vqpPNlhdogNpVatnwrH8RIwNLwF89NTg2CIiOgqJ8/s7iG0ZoFx6iqKbFqfCK5Nf uGTx+ieyptGfCAw8VVYe2KgNQD5GHFSXhRnUD7Jp2mvwVeQ4WbnAJ4a++88Vm/iO kgWjHeFf/aNiDRyjMljhoqu8A59sSCC0O5IdP3tPv774V32CD4RULPQ8oLe+cmcb JZPxBlBqfhODXEH5hIPA2HWe5jOC6hPONUgpQ4Sv6J37vjLl8RDuLT2E/kuail2L ZJwuPG59mn8OAcROhNKD =TVnE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
Does anybody have a favorite low cost timing mode unit? How about one with minimal soldering required? kuze...@gmail.com said: http://www.ankaka.com/usb-gps-receiver-for-computers-laptop-worked-as-gps-nav igator_p46411.html AGI-G217 USB GPS Receiver That web page says: Uses SiRF Star III chipset to provide high accuracy and reliability It's a typical low-cost GPS via USB navigation unit. It's not a timing receiver. SiRF has a huge chunk of the low cost market. Their receiver is sensitive, but it's horrible for timing unless you have a non-USB version so you can get the PPS signal. The problem is wander. (With my timing hat on, I'd call it a firmware bug.) By wander I mean very low frequency jitter. It's low enough that you can't filter it out by averaging a reasonable number of samples. http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/ntp/GPSSiRF-off.gif -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 Tuning Diode
That would be a Motorola MV1650 or equivalent. You may have to select for 100pf +/- 5% @ 4V as the standard spec is 10% but it probably does not matter as the tuning ratio will be greater than the 2 spec. David On 10/18/12 3:18 PM, Adrian wrote: Hello, I found the 10811 in my 8662A to be quite noisy and was able to trace the problem down to the tuning diode. Actually, the phase noise started to jump when the oven heated up. As a quick solution, I replaced it with a SMD type that I had at hands. I would appreciate any hint where to find an original diode (even though I could leave it as is). As by the manual, the original is a '0122-0244 DIODE-VVC 100PF 5% C4/C25-MIN=2 BVR-30V Mfr. 28480' Mfr. 28480 is listed as HP, but the diode is marked 'M' for Motorola and '0244' and '312'. Adrian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GWBasic at 57600 Baud WORKS!
I got my dinosaur up and healthy again. The code Ed Moxon suggested worked great with some monor tweaks to my program. 10 'run gwbasic com port at high baudrate by poking divisor latch 100 OPEN COM1:9600,N,8,1 AS 1 '9600 is 115200/12, so latch is now 12 110 UBASE = h3f8: LCR=UBASE+3 'uart i/o address, 3f8 for com1, 2f8 com2 120 X=INP(LCR):X=X+128:OUT LCR,X 'set uart DLAB bit 130 OUT UBASE,2 'uart divisor latch lowbyte, 115200 gets divided by this 140 X=X-128: OUT LCR,X 'reset DLAB for normal op 400 'fetch strings 410 LINE INPUT#1, C$ 420 PRINT C$; 430 GOTO 410 As per the dinosaur I have run thousands of Allan Deviation plots over the years, taking data from my SR620 with a GWBasic program running in an old laptop mounted in a docking adaptor in my timing rack. (the dinosaur) The program when run assigns the next sequential file # which it writes to disk as well as printing it to the screen. If you push the S key it closes the file on the disk and stops the program. If you push the D key it deletes the current file and decrements the file number so that you can reuse it the next time. The computer is allways up and ready to go. Since I did not want to tear out and replace the hardware the fix Ed helped with was the way to go! Now I can hook up my new counter that works at 57600 Baud to replace the SR620! Hope this can help someone else! Corby Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50806c60edb926c602194st01duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 Tuning Diode
Probably unobtainium. 0122-0244 is shown as Motorola SMV315-24 or MSI Electronics SQ529. For whatever that's worth. Reminds me of a popular audio amplifier design that was in Popular Electronics using Motorola SS1122 diodes. Some special non catalog diode. Turns out Dan Myers, the designer, just happened to have these in his junk box. A gazillion other diodes would also work. In the 5071A, we used a 10811 with a different tuning diode that gives a 10X larger range and is linear tuning (being hyperabrupt). There is nothing magic about the 0122-0244. Lots of diodes can work. Rick Karlquist N6RK Adrian wrote: Hello, I found the 10811 in my 8662A to be quite noisy and was able to trace the problem down to the tuning diode. Actually, the phase noise started to jump when the oven heated up. As a quick solution, I replaced it with a SMD type that I had at hands. I would appreciate any hint where to find an original diode (even though I could leave it as is). As by the manual, the original is a '0122-0244 DIODE-VVC 100PF 5% C4/C25-MIN=2 BVR-30V Mfr. 28480' Mfr. 28480 is listed as HP, but the diode is marked 'M' for Motorola and '0244' and '312'. Adrian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Odetics 365
Thank you for the reply Azelio, I wasn't sure where to start with the drift... Cheers, Rob. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 8:21 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odetics 365 You are measuring your counter stability, not the GPSDO stability. A locked GPSDO is way better than any free running counter if driven by its internal timebase oscillator. snip ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
On 10/18/2012 1:20 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: Let the GPS average the antenna position over a very long time. On a good GPSDO one can select the number of averages, and the position variance before the survey is finished, and the (now very precise) position is stored in memory. Indoors this may take a very long time to do (weeks?), but should work too. The problem indoors is multi path, one never knows where the signal is coming from that is seen. Setting up signal squelch in the GPS really helps with that, for example the C/No could be set to a minimum of 35dB, and anything below that is ignored so only the strongest signals are used. We made a customer's urban solution work that way, it effectively deleted all the multipath issues he had from adjacent high-rises, since the multipath signal strengths yielded about 20 to 28dB C/No and were thus all squelched, whereas the direct signals were 35 to 50dB C/No. bye, Said Wow thanks. I've never seen such an insightful explanation for dealing with multipath signal issues. Fortunately, I'm not doing this for any sort of for profit purpose / just learning for now. This list really has a lot of experts :) -- Sarah P.S. Sorry for the earlier PGP signatures... In the past 24 hours someone pointed out to me, to paraphrase: most of the people reading this list aren't using email systems which make any use of the (rather long) message validation blocks ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
Thanks! Have fun experimenting Said Sent From iPhone On Oct 18, 2012, at 18:54, Sarah White kuze...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/18/2012 1:20 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: Let the GPS average the antenna position over a very long time. On a good GPSDO one can select the number of averages, and the position variance before the survey is finished, and the (now very precise) position is stored in memory. Indoors this may take a very long time to do (weeks?), but should work too. The problem indoors is multi path, one never knows where the signal is coming from that is seen. Setting up signal squelch in the GPS really helps with that, for example the C/No could be set to a minimum of 35dB, and anything below that is ignored so only the strongest signals are used. We made a customer's urban solution work that way, it effectively deleted all the multipath issues he had from adjacent high-rises, since the multipath signal strengths yielded about 20 to 28dB C/No and were thus all squelched, whereas the direct signals were 35 to 50dB C/No. bye, Said Wow thanks. I've never seen such an insightful explanation for dealing with multipath signal issues. Fortunately, I'm not doing this for any sort of for profit purpose / just learning for now. This list really has a lot of experts :) -- Sarah P.S. Sorry for the earlier PGP signatures... In the past 24 hours someone pointed out to me, to paraphrase: most of the people reading this list aren't using email systems which make any use of the (rather long) message validation blocks ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 Tuning Diode
That's extremely interesting, Adrian. I've never heard of a noisy varactor, but then I've never looked for one, either. It'd be great if some of the problems that have been blamed on jumping crystals were in fact caused by the tuning diode. What steps did you take to rule out the crystal and narrow down the problem to the diode? -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:19 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] HP 10811 Tuning Diode Hello, I found the 10811 in my 8662A to be quite noisy and was able to trace the problem down to the tuning diode. Actually, the phase noise started to jump when the oven heated up. As a quick solution, I replaced it with a SMD type that I had at hands. I would appreciate any hint where to find an original diode (even though I could leave it as is). As by the manual, the original is a '0122-0244 DIODE-VVC 100PF 5% C4/C25-MIN=2 BVR-30V Mfr. 28480' Mfr. 28480 is listed as HP, but the diode is marked 'M' for Motorola and '0244' and '312'. Adrian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock)
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: albertson.ch...@gmail.com said: But yu are in luck, iLotus does sell an M12M evaluation kit that is ready to use http://www.ilotus.com.sg/m12m_uart_evaluation_kit but the price is higher. That web page says: SiRF Oncore(tm) Software What's the relation between SiRF and i-Lotus? Apparently the soft are software works with both kinds of GPS' that iLotus sells. SiRF is one kind and Oncore is an other. But there are two different Oncore types too, timing and navigation. The Oncores are high performance units, SiRF is very small and maybe lower cost. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 Tuning Diode
I'll second the interesting part. I have a problem with a 10 GHz brick oscillator LO that I converted to GPS lock. I don't remember the instantaneous frequency jumps (around 200 - 400 HZ at 10 GHz) before I did the GPS lock (although it's possible). Please note that this is NOT any type of GPS phase shift. I built a extremely slow frequency lock circuit that has a loop time in seconds. The jump is instantaneous and I can then see the control voltage slowly change to correct the error. When the frequency jumps back, the control voltage slowly follows. Since this brick has the usual 106.5 MHz crystal (multiplied by 96 to get 10.224 GHz for the LO), I'm seeing at most 400 HZ / 96 shift in the crystal oscillator. I've wondered if I have a noisy varactor diode. The diode selected was one I had around, selected only because it had a low-ish capacitance value. I haven't gotten around to digging into the problem any farther. Anyone have any more info or ideas? 73, Tom WB6UZZ --- On Thu, 10/18/12, John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote: From: John Miles jmi...@pop.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 Tuning Diode To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Date: Thursday, October 18, 2012, 8:54 PM That's extremely interesting, Adrian. I've never heard of a noisy varactor, but then I've never looked for one, either. It'd be great if some of the problems that have been blamed on jumping crystals were in fact caused by the tuning diode. What steps did you take to rule out the crystal and narrow down the problem to the diode? -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:19 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] HP 10811 Tuning Diode Hello, I found the 10811 in my 8662A to be quite noisy and was able to trace the problem down to the tuning diode. Actually, the phase noise started to jump when the oven heated up. As a quick solution, I replaced it with a SMD type that I had at hands. I would appreciate any hint where to find an original diode (even though I could leave it as is). As by the manual, the original is a '0122-0244 DIODE-VVC 100PF 5% C4/C25-MIN=2 BVR-30V Mfr. 28480' Mfr. 28480 is listed as HP, but the diode is marked 'M' for Motorola and '0244' and '312'. Adrian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Controlling FEI 5680A
On 1/14/12 9:18 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: Not over kill at all. It is worth paying a few $$ not to have to design a PCB. Worse then that is that most will take shortcuts and design it so that you need a sppepcial IC programmer to program the PIC. Thee $20 development boards allow you to download the firmware over USB so users can do it themselves. I'm looking at this pair of boards: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoEthernetShield http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardUno Ethernet and and SD card slot might seem overkill too. But I want to track performance, read out the phase difference over time and so one. So I want to be able to connect a desktop computer and a USB cable is to short. Ethernet will let me check from work or with my phone. the SD card can be used to log data. Likely hold a two years of data on a 8GB card. I've got just that pair.. several of them. It's great..what's nice about Arduino is that you can just go buy one at Radio Shack. For a lot of applications, it's a nice simple solution with minimal hassles and fooling around. Examples get you started with things like simple webservers, etc. The Arduino language is a sort of C, and for some reason Arduino land uses non standard jargon (sketches, shields), but it's not too bad. I had a summer intern who had never programmed before in his life turn one into a controller to cycle three solenoid valves in a couple weeks. If you like PICs, that works too. There are off the shelf boards, etc. that work fairly well. What all of these don't do well is complex stuff. If your program gets over, say, 1000 lines, you're probably trying to do too much for that little machine. It's not a multitasking operating system with disk drives, etc. Even if there ARE a lot of libraries that make it seem like a full-up environment (e.g. BSD sockets, file systems on SD) it really isn't. it's still a little embedded microcontroller. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
