Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 and LTC6957
On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 16:55:29 +0100 HagaaarTheHorrible hagaaar587pl...@googlemail.com wrote: Doesn't sound too good I'm afraid... in addition to the shipping issues, I wonder if it was the right decision to use this OCXO... Are there any low phase noise OCXO available (preferably from stock) from more conventional sellers? (i.e. distributors/online shops based in US or EU) The Oscilloquartz 8663 has been superseeded by a newer version. Unfortunately, since they redesigned their webpages, i cannot find the OCXOs listed anywhere anymore (only the 8607 shows up). But you can contact them directly. The Oscilloquartz sales departement is very helpfull, even towards hobbists. Attila Kinali -- 1.) Write everything down. 2.) Reduce to the essential. 3.) Stop and question. -- The Habits of Highly Boring People, Chris Sauve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3GHZ Extender for HP 53131A and 53132A
Hi Rick Thanks for the clarification. I'd thought at first you were suggesting these replacements were somehow at fault in comparison with the original design, which was the bit I couldn't understand since they seemed to be virtually identical, rather than commenting on the original design itself. I'd quoted the sensitivity mainly because that seemed to be just about the only thing left to measure other than to say, I plugged it in and it worked ok:-), but undertand the limitations better now I still feel comfortable recommending these as a great value substitute for the HP original. Regards Nigel GM8PZR - Dynamic dividers oscillate when not driven. Static dividers are like ordinary flip flops used for logic and do not oscillate when the clock signal is removed. The MB510 is probably nothing great, even if it was used by HP in some counters. I personally was to blame for designing the MB506 into the 5334B counter. I was trying to reduce factory cost. I knew perfectly well it didn't work all that well. It was at least no worse that the divider used in the 5334A, which was made by HP in Santa Clara and cost $100. The dividers that were made by HP in Santa Rosa were much better because they were static. The 5386 used these. They were also not cheap. Rick Karlquist N6RK HP 5334B Project Manager ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone want an engineering job making a GPSDO comparator for T-Bolts?
Hi One very good reason to lock up the TCXO in the radio rather than use the GPSDO output is spurs. None of these surplus GPSDO’s are particularly clean spur wise. Bob On Nov 9, 2013, at 12:23 AM, Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.com wrote: Chris wrote: I wonder what you gain by this? You still need the GPS to provide a reference. Either you use its 1Hz or 10MHz output. Then you compare the phase of these to the phase o the TCXO and adjust the TCXO until the phase is constant relative to the reference. Certainly if you start with a GPS that puts out 10 MHz (i.e., a GPSDO), there is very little reason to use the 10 MHz to lock the internal TCXO rather than simply replacing the TCXO output with the output of the GPSDO (plus whatever dividers, etc. are necessary if the TCXO frequency is not 10 MHz, which are already part of the current solution as I understand it). The real reason to make the change would be to replace the pricey 10 MHz GPSDO with a $2.00 GPS module that puts out only a PPS signal. Of course, the PLL is much more complex when you are locking to a PPS signal, so the cost of the newly-designed PLL would bridge some of the price gap. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3GHZ Extender for HP 53131A and 53132A
Rick, Can you point us to a method and schematic of a better way to make such a front end for a counter? Peter On 11/9/2013 6:26 AM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: Hi Rick Thanks for the clarification. I'd thought at first you were suggesting these replacements were somehow at fault in comparison with the original design, which was the bit I couldn't understand since they seemed to be virtually identical, rather than commenting on the original design itself. I'd quoted the sensitivity mainly because that seemed to be just about the only thing left to measure other than to say, I plugged it in and it worked ok:-), but undertand the limitations better now I still feel comfortable recommending these as a great value substitute for the HP original. Regards Nigel GM8PZR - Dynamic dividers oscillate when not driven. Static dividers are like ordinary flip flops used for logic and do not oscillate when the clock signal is removed. The MB510 is probably nothing great, even if it was used by HP in some counters. I personally was to blame for designing the MB506 into the 5334B counter. I was trying to reduce factory cost. I knew perfectly well it didn't work all that well. It was at least no worse that the divider used in the 5334A, which was made by HP in Santa Clara and cost $100. The dividers that were made by HP in Santa Rosa were much better because they were static. The 5386 used these. They were also not cheap. Rick Karlquist N6RK HP 5334B Project Manager ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3GHZ Extender for HP 53131A and 53132A
Hi I suspect it starts with an input source stability analysis on the actual chip and layout used. You would need some pretty good models for the counter chip to do that. That may only be the first layer to the process... Bob On Nov 9, 2013, at 8:58 AM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: Rick, Can you point us to a method and schematic of a better way to make such a front end for a counter? Peter On 11/9/2013 6:26 AM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: Hi Rick Thanks for the clarification. I'd thought at first you were suggesting these replacements were somehow at fault in comparison with the original design, which was the bit I couldn't understand since they seemed to be virtually identical, rather than commenting on the original design itself. I'd quoted the sensitivity mainly because that seemed to be just about the only thing left to measure other than to say, I plugged it in and it worked ok:-), but undertand the limitations better now I still feel comfortable recommending these as a great value substitute for the HP original. Regards Nigel GM8PZR - Dynamic dividers oscillate when not driven. Static dividers are like ordinary flip flops used for logic and do not oscillate when the clock signal is removed. The MB510 is probably nothing great, even if it was used by HP in some counters. I personally was to blame for designing the MB506 into the 5334B counter. I was trying to reduce factory cost. I knew perfectly well it didn't work all that well. It was at least no worse that the divider used in the 5334A, which was made by HP in Santa Clara and cost $100. The dividers that were made by HP in Santa Rosa were much better because they were static. The 5386 used these. They were also not cheap. Rick Karlquist N6RK HP 5334B Project Manager ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] EGG RFS-10-7 output selection
Corby I have 2 EGG RBs and would need to look at the model. They are putting out 10 Mhz as I recall. Would be happy to look if they are the same units to see whatever clues we could get. Question I have always had. Do they need to be attached to a heat sink? It looks like they may want that yet there is no heat sink compound or any clue. They look to be quite nice RBs, but at least on the units I have no technical info can be found. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 3:27 PM, cdel...@juno.com wrote: Hi, I used to have notes on how to select which output frequency the EGG RFS-10-7 provides but I can't find them! It can be 5 or 10 Mhz. Does anybody know where the selection is made? Thanks, Corby Dawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Computing GPS Distance Error in Time
Hi Chris, This has to do with my GPSDO project. I hadn't realized just how critical it was to have an antenna that is free of multi-path. I've made several posts about my GPS marching around the neighborhood. I finally put the antenna up in the attic at the peak of the roof and now the thing just marches around a small section of the house. I still don't quite trust it, so I was just looking for something canned that would do the plotting for me. I now have foxtrotgps running in its own section of the workspace, and it's no longer wiping the screen. So, I think I'm good. BTW, with fixing the antenna and switching to an Adafruit Breakout GPS, it looks like I've finally achieved phase lock using Bert's (VE2ZAZ) FLL board. Now it's just a matter of cleaning up the code and making it more robust. What an educational project this has been! Bob - AE6RV From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com To: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2013 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Computing GPS Distance Error in Time If you are dealing with positions that are only up to 5,000 feet distance, you can assume the Earth is flat and simply plot locations using maybe gnuplot For such a small area the conversion of latitude and longitude to (x,y) is linear. Over larger areas you may want to integrate your data with maps and need access to function to compute bearing angles and distances on a spheroid which is non-trivial. GIS software like GQIS allows you to plot data on the Earth's surface. On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Mark, What I was hoping for was some canned software that will plot position on the display until told to clear it so I can get a visual. I've tried foxtrotgps, but it clears its screen at any and every opportunity, so barring getting into the code that's not going to work. But I can capture the position data from my Adafruit and add it to the plot I'm already doing for timing. So that will work. thanks, bob From: Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:14 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Computing GPS Distance Error in Time I'm not using any special surveying software, just some code that I wrote. The controller box and remote box both have GPS units in them. The controller periodically requests the remote unit's position and just calculates the vector distance/bearing between the two units. The application was intended to work with the boxes spaced 50-5000 feet apart. I was rather surprised how well they worked very close together. The next step is to add a magnetic compass module to the controller box so that it can draw a map of the remote units in relation to the orientation of the controller box. -- What type of real-time surveying software are you using? I'm looking for surveying/plotting software for Linux to keep a close on the timing stability of my Adafruit. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Computing GPS Distance Error in Time
If you are dealing with positions that are only up to 5,000 feet distance, you can assume the Earth is flat and simply plot locations using maybe gnuplot For such a small area the conversion of latitude and longitude to (x,y) is linear. Over larger areas you may want to integrate your data with maps and need access to function to compute bearing angles and distances on a spheroid which is non-trivial. GIS software like GQIS allows you to plot data on the Earth's surface. On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Mark, What I was hoping for was some canned software that will plot position on the display until told to clear it so I can get a visual. I've tried foxtrotgps, but it clears its screen at any and every opportunity, so barring getting into the code that's not going to work. But I can capture the position data from my Adafruit and add it to the plot I'm already doing for timing. So that will work. thanks, bob From: Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:14 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Computing GPS Distance Error in Time I'm not using any special surveying software, just some code that I wrote. The controller box and remote box both have GPS units in them. The controller periodically requests the remote unit's position and just calculates the vector distance/bearing between the two units. The application was intended to work with the boxes spaced 50-5000 feet apart. I was rather surprised how well they worked very close together. The next step is to add a magnetic compass module to the controller box so that it can draw a map of the remote units in relation to the orientation of the controller box. -- What type of real-time surveying software are you using? I'm looking for surveying/plotting software for Linux to keep a close on the timing stability of my Adafruit. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] EGG RFS-10-7 output selection
Hi Pretty much all Rb’s want to have a heat sink. Often they got used with some sort of pad rather than heat sink grease. It’s much less messy that way. The rack mount Rb’s are about the only exception to the heat sink rule. Bob On Nov 9, 2013, at 12:19 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Corby I have 2 EGG RBs and would need to look at the model. They are putting out 10 Mhz as I recall. Would be happy to look if they are the same units to see whatever clues we could get. Question I have always had. Do they need to be attached to a heat sink? It looks like they may want that yet there is no heat sink compound or any clue. They look to be quite nice RBs, but at least on the units I have no technical info can be found. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 3:27 PM, cdel...@juno.com wrote: Hi, I used to have notes on how to select which output frequency the EGG RFS-10-7 provides but I can't find them! It can be 5 or 10 Mhz. Does anybody know where the selection is made? Thanks, Corby Dawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] EGG Rb ts-rfs circa 1999 anyone have info please
I have 2 of these and Bobs thread had me take a look to see if I could help him. Unfortunately a different model. But figured I would ask if anyone had any details on these units. There is a label on the side that describes the pins and they do indeed work. It seems in the old days EGG did a lot of development work. There are various patents and I think EGG may have been considered fairly high quality. Space and military. Thanks for anything you may have or know. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] EGG RFS-10-7 output selection
Looked at my egg and its a TS-RFS circa 1999 One end does appear that it would have been bolted to something. But it could as easily be the chassis mount as anything no real clue. But easy enough to leverage the 5 holes to attach to an aluminium plate/rack panel. Sorry its not the same model Bob. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Pretty much all Rb’s want to have a heat sink. Often they got used with some sort of pad rather than heat sink grease. It’s much less messy that way. The rack mount Rb’s are about the only exception to the heat sink rule. Bob On Nov 9, 2013, at 12:19 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Corby I have 2 EGG RBs and would need to look at the model. They are putting out 10 Mhz as I recall. Would be happy to look if they are the same units to see whatever clues we could get. Question I have always had. Do they need to be attached to a heat sink? It looks like they may want that yet there is no heat sink compound or any clue. They look to be quite nice RBs, but at least on the units I have no technical info can be found. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 3:27 PM, cdel...@juno.com wrote: Hi, I used to have notes on how to select which output frequency the EGG RFS-10-7 provides but I can't find them! It can be 5 or 10 Mhz. Does anybody know where the selection is made? Thanks, Corby Dawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The 5MHz Sweet Spot
Yes, but as with quartz it varies a lot. I have tested a few LPROs, but have never seen a frequency jump in them. Those with more to test might have seen some jumps, but mine have been well behaved whenever they were being logged anyway. I don't remember seeing actual jumps in the FE5680A's either, although the 2 older style 1pps-only ones did often have retrace jumps (like 5-10ppt) even after a short power down. The most obvious jumps I have seem were on a Temex LPRO/LPFRS which also had a borderline low peak Rb voltage, whether that had anything to do with it or not. At first it sometimes jumped in steps of 5-20ppt, and tapping it or even touching the connector on the RF cable from it would also often cause a jump. It was at its worst when I first powered it up, but even after many weeks on, they were still there occasionally. I've also tried a couple of the 9.8304MHz Sa.22c things recently, and other than being very basic spec, one had some fast frequency jumps and the other none that I saw - although near the middle of a 7 week test run it decided to change by 3E-11 over 15 hours or so. That is actually very like what I've seen sometimes in quartz where many days of aging happen in a few hours - I have MTI260's particularly keen on this trick. I had originally been interested in investigating jumps, but since they were most obvious in the poorer oscillators my interest waned a bit. Doing a search on rubidium frequency jumps turns up a fair bit, although much is on the GPS Rb's which unfortunately will not be cheap surplus any time soon - unless someone really messes up! Angus. From: Hal Murray To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Sent: November 3, 2013 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The 5MHz Sweet Spot Do low cost recycled Rubidiums have any quirks equivalent to frequency jumps in crystals? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 2X got Rubidium Sticker Die Cut Decal Vinyl | eBay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-got-rubidium-Sticker-Die-Cut-Decal-vinyl-/160631582135?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessorieshash=item2566636db7vxp=mtr -- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida jleik...@leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The 5MHz Sweet Spot
Hi One of the often seen statements about jumps is that the time between them increases as the oscillator ages. Obviously that’s only going to apply to certain mechanisms. If you OCXO jumps because there is no solder on the varicap, it may not apply. To the extent it’s true, it’s a much bigger issue for those who buy their OCXO’s straight from the factory than for those who buy them surplus. Bob On Nov 9, 2013, at 7:11 PM, Angus not.ag...@btinternet.com wrote: Yes, but as with quartz it varies a lot. I have tested a few LPROs, but have never seen a frequency jump in them. Those with more to test might have seen some jumps, but mine have been well behaved whenever they were being logged anyway. I don't remember seeing actual jumps in the FE5680A's either, although the 2 older style 1pps-only ones did often have retrace jumps (like 5-10ppt) even after a short power down. The most obvious jumps I have seem were on a Temex LPRO/LPFRS which also had a borderline low peak Rb voltage, whether that had anything to do with it or not. At first it sometimes jumped in steps of 5-20ppt, and tapping it or even touching the connector on the RF cable from it would also often cause a jump. It was at its worst when I first powered it up, but even after many weeks on, they were still there occasionally. I've also tried a couple of the 9.8304MHz Sa.22c things recently, and other than being very basic spec, one had some fast frequency jumps and the other none that I saw - although near the middle of a 7 week test run it decided to change by 3E-11 over 15 hours or so. That is actually very like what I've seen sometimes in quartz where many days of aging happen in a few hours - I have MTI260's particularly keen on this trick. I had originally been interested in investigating jumps, but since they were most obvious in the poorer oscillators my interest waned a bit. Doing a search on rubidium frequency jumps turns up a fair bit, although much is on the GPS Rb's which unfortunately will not be cheap surplus any time soon - unless someone really messes up! Angus. From: Hal Murray To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Sent: November 3, 2013 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The 5MHz Sweet Spot Do low cost recycled Rubidiums have any quirks equivalent to frequency jumps in crystals? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
