Re: [time-nuts] Noise and non-linear behaviour of ferrite transformers

2014-07-19 Thread Rex
On 7/19/2014 6:38 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: Or another way of putting it is you do a bunch of measurements and then construct a theory to explain what you already know experimentally. I like that. Or perhaps, stated another way, in the real world engineers are just as important as p

Re: [time-nuts] Noise and non-linear behaviour of ferrite transformers

2014-07-19 Thread Max Robinson
I don't know if this has any application for you or not but here it is. I have had ground loop problems between the power safety ground and the TV Cable shield. I used two 300 to 75 ohm transformers and coupled their 300 ohm sides with 27 pf capacitors. I put them in an aluminum box with onl

[time-nuts] Noise and non-linear behaviour of ferrite

2014-07-19 Thread Kit Scally
Attila, >From my (past) CATV experience, ferrite-based devices don't introduce "noise" as such but they can certainly pick up noise (or transmit) unless they are toroidal or otherwise well screened. However, they can introduce distortion if the winding flux density approaches the ferrite's satura

Re: [time-nuts] Noise and non-linear behaviour of ferrite transformers

2014-07-19 Thread Tom Van Baak
Watch out for the tempco of transformers. I ran into this with the TADD-1. Removing the inductors/transformers improved the tempco by 15x. http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tadd-1/ /tvb - Original Message - From: "Attila Kinali" To: Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: [time-

Re: [time-nuts] Noise and non-linear behaviour of ferrite transformers

2014-07-19 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist
I did some tests of residual phase noise using an Agilent E5505A and found that air coil inductors did not add noise (at least down to my noise threshold) but that ferrite core inductors had easily seen noise. It was on the order of ADEV = 1E-10 close to the carrier. I would describe this as nois

Re: [time-nuts] quartz oscillator injection locking

2014-07-19 Thread Bob Camp
HI As long as you have a really poor crystal oscillator (wide band loop) they are quite easy to lock. If you have a high performance crystal oscillator (high Q / narrow band loop) they are relatively difficult to lock. If you are trying to *guarantee* a lock bandwidth and *guarantee* a level of

Re: [time-nuts] Noise and non-linear behaviour of ferrite transformers

2014-07-19 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The general rule of thumb is that they add no noise or distortion. The typical reason for not using them all the time is cost / size / weight. A lot depends on what frequency (or frequency band) you are talking about and what sort of transformers. Obviously you can indeed mis-use a part or

Re: [time-nuts] quartz oscillator injection locking

2014-07-19 Thread Alexander Pummer
if you have enough buffering -- look for now noise amplifiers, which have low h12 [= "backward gain " ] a quartz oscillator will not lock so easy On 7/19/2014 5:24 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 16:45:14 -0400 paul swed wrote: Attilla I did look at some of the documents. B

Re: [time-nuts] quartz oscillator injection locking

2014-07-19 Thread Attila Kinali
On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 16:45:14 -0400 paul swed wrote: > Attilla I did look at some of the documents. But none showed practical HF > class injection locking. Say as an example a 6 MHz xtal to a 1 or 2 MHz > reference. > It maybe as easy as a single transistor in the oscillators ground lead. > Always

[time-nuts] Noise and non-linear behaviour of ferrite transformers

2014-07-19 Thread Attila Kinali
Hi, I'm currently looking at some way of breaking the ground loop between several systems. The obvious idea would be to use transformers. I would like to have some kind of rule of thumb to guess how much noise such a transformer would add. But unfortunately i cannot find any theory or measurements

Re: [time-nuts] quartz oscillator injection locking

2014-07-19 Thread paul swed
Attilla I did look at some of the documents. But none showed practical HF class injection locking. Say as an example a 6 MHz xtal to a 1 or 2 MHz reference. It maybe as easy as a single transistor in the oscillators ground lead. Always on till a brief pulse from the 1 or 2 MHz ref cuts it off. I th

[time-nuts] Symmetricom Z3827A Info? [seems similar to 58534A]

2014-07-19 Thread Oz-in-DFW
This looks like the same mechanical package and interface connector as the venerable Symmetricom/HP 58534A timing receiver. All the descriptions I can find describe identical function seemingly targeted at the cellular base station market. Does anyone have a pointer to documentation on these? Goo

Re: [time-nuts] temperature sensor

2014-07-19 Thread Bob Camp
Hi A “temperature sensor crystal” is very much the same thing as a normal crystal (except for angle of cut). The mounting is pretty much the same as the crystals you have seen before. The only thing you do to improve the thermal coupling is to do a backfill with something like helium. Backfill

Re: [time-nuts] temperature sensor

2014-07-19 Thread Attila Kinali
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 14:21:49 +0200 "Bernd Neubig" wrote: > the time-nut approach for temperature measurement would be to use > a temperature sensor crystal - like the good old Hewlett-Packard guys >did many years ago. If you do not look for ultra-linearity of the frequency > vs. temp response, t

Re: [time-nuts] quartz oscillator injection locking

2014-07-19 Thread Attila Kinali
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 21:18:20 +0200 Francesco Messineo wrote: > what would be the best method to try injection locking a butler common > base crystal oscillator (see figure in > http://www.eska.dk/oscillator_data.htm for schematic)? > Any comment about close-in phase noise performance when adding