[time-nuts] OT: MHz DIP

2016-02-28 Thread Tom Van Baak
Like many of us, I find my best bargains on eBay. I happened to be searching for MHz DIP oscillators and ran across this item: http://www.ebay.com/itm/151957504565 No replies necessary. If you are the lucky winner ("only 1 left"), please contact me, off-list ;-) /tvb

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Jeremy Nichols
My T-bolt is running on a Power-one International Series HCAS-60W-A supply, hefty enough to run at least 4 more. Ripple and noise measure less than 100 micro-volts peak-to-peak. The T-bolt seems quite happy. Jeremy On Sunday, February 28, 2016, Dave M wrote: > Pete

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Glenn Little WB4UIV
While in the navy, I had to repair a hp cesium standard. The control circuit had the oscillator slewed to one limit, I do not remember whether high or low. We had no spare parts to support this standard. The only option was to run the standard open loop. Over a period of two hours, I had the

Re: [time-nuts] FW: Instrument BASIC

2016-02-28 Thread Joseph Gray
All this talk of Instrument BASIC brings up a question. Is the Windows version "out there" somewhere? I know you can't buy it any more. Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Daun Yeagley wrote: > Hi Magnus > > My memory is a bit faded on this, but the Instrument

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Dave M
Pete Lancashire wrote: ... I was using an HP lab supply>>> Model ? Age ? My bench has some pretty old HP's even Harrison Lab branded supplies. I have had to re-cap a few of them. In a way it is almost a curse how reliable their supplies were. You always got the V and I you wanted so one never

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread Sanjeev Gupta
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Sanjeev Gupta wrote: > I am reviewing and expanding and for the NTPSec project < > http://www.ntpsec.org >, a fork of NTP. > Apologies, this should have been: I am reviewing and expanding and documentation for the NTPSec project <

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Except …. The big steps give you more “thermal shock” on a BT and that slows things down. Bob > On Feb 28, 2016, at 7:28 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist > wrote: > > > > On 2/28/2016 7:01 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> It’s not an electrical issue as much as a

Re: [time-nuts] FW: Instrument BASIC

2016-02-28 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Daun, Lacking the option I did ask the question how to enable or install it. I think it would be a nice way of doing some things, knowing from previous experience, and in particular since it seems like it also can act as a GPIB controller, which is useful when interacting with other

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist
On 2/28/2016 7:01 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi It’s not an electrical issue as much as a heat issue …. Before you start, consider that you will be doing something like: Move trimmer 1 turn CW Wait 10 minutes read frequency Move trimmer 1 turn CW wait / read Move trimer 1/2 turn CCW wait / read

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

2016-02-28 Thread Adrian Godwin
This turned out to be an easy way to run Lady Heather itself (herself ?) on Linux - it works well under Wine, but identifying the serial port is a problem. But run Heather with '/ip=localhost' and ser2net to connect to the USB serial port and all is smooth. I used the ser2net config line

[time-nuts] FW: Instrument BASIC

2016-02-28 Thread Daun Yeagley
Hi Magnus My memory is a bit faded on this, but the Instrument Basic on the 894xx is pretty useful, and I'd recommend making use of it. Instrument Basic is a subset of "Rocky Mountain Basic" which was a very useful programming language, especially for instrument control. "Back in the day", I

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Bob Camp
Hi We have at least one example of the spurs being in the 40 to 80 Hz range “depending”. That strongly suggests that the original analysis is correct and that it is a spur in the OCXO rather than line noise induced issues in a test setup. Bob > On Feb 28, 2016, at 5:49 PM, Bill Byrom

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Charles Steinmetz
Jim wrote: Can you tell what the cut is if you have the blank in front of you? You can do it directly with x-ray crystallography. Otherwise, you need to characterize multiple crystal parameters and infer the cut from those, which may not be particularly accurate. Best regards, Charles

[time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Frank Stellmach
Hello Nigel , I already have done a similar repair on a 10811, described here: https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2012-January/062228.html A comparison of the 10811 manual, p. 8-16 and schematic, let me strongly assume, that the 10544 has exactly the same type of NTC inside. This NTC

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Ok a bit more of the story. It’s easy to simply turn on the device and see how it warms up. Back when it was made, the SC did not yet exist. The only thing it could be was a BT. With an X-ray setup you can absolutely tell it’s a BT. With the blank and a pair of calipers you can make a

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread Bob Camp
Hi WWVB and WWV (like any radio uncorrected radio system) has fairly predictable shifts associated with the day / night ionosphere. One *could* fix that issue with a table based on station location. I do not know of any library of code that does that already. The next “layer” of trouble

Re: [time-nuts] Next step up from basic GPS/PPS timekeeping

2016-02-28 Thread Neil Green
On 25 Feb 2016, at 9:07 pm, Jim Harman wrote: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Neil Green wrote: > >> I’ve decided to build this: >> >> http://www.hackersbench.com/Projects/1Hz/ > > Good start! > > Once you have built it and observed how sensitive

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Bill Byrom
If the spurs are at exactly 60 Hz multiples (not 120 Hz or 180 Hz) and you are in an area with 60 Hz line power you might have magnetic field coupling from nearby power transformers. Normal conductive shielding won't solve this issue, and Mu-Metal or other high permeability low frequency materials

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Pete Lancashire
... I was using an HP lab supply>>> Model ? Age ? My bench has some pretty old HP's even Harrison Lab branded supplies. I have had to re-cap a few of them. In a way it is almost a curse how reliable their supplies were. You always got the V and I you wanted so one never thought about the

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread Paul
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:09 AM, Sanjeev Gupta wrote: > > Among NTPSec's goals are a smaller, auditable, code-base; hence support for > receivers last available in the early-1990s is being removed. > I'm a bit confused by your question and the responses. There are (I believe)

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Magnus Danielson
Jim, Why cut it open? It is relatively easy to measure just by power the oscillator up. Just in this thread is an echo of a discussion we had many years ago that explains the method. The temperature curve for AT, BT and SC-cut is known and quite different, so just measure the heat-up curve

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread jimlux
On 2/28/16 7:07 AM, Sanjeev Gupta wrote: On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote: Support for WWV in ntpd using the wwv_audio refclock is very good and delivers jitters substantially less than a millisecond. I have been using this for over a decade. Thank you.

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Adrian Godwin
Could it be microphonic capacitors, or the crystal itself ? Have you got a big old heavy power supply with a buzzing transformer on your workbench ? On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Daniel Watson wrote: > Hi, > > I put one in a freezer and measured the current draw. At

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread James Flynn
Sanjeev Gupta writes: > that as a result of the change, precision equipment may not be able to > recover a usable signal from the new modulation scheme, rendering it > useless for the sub-100 microsec disciplining. In fact, the new scheme may actually help with accurate ON-TIME

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread Majdi S. Abbas
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 03:09:32PM +0800, Sanjeev Gupta wrote: > I am reviewing and expanding and for the NTPSec project < > http://www.ntpsec.org >, a fork of NTP. > > Among NTPSec's goals are a smaller, auditable, code-base; hence support for > receivers last available in the early-1990s is

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread jimlux
On 2/28/16 6:23 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The whole “BT Cut” issue was a big top secret in HP. They spent a lot of time obscuring the fact that they used BT’s. The belief was that if any of the other outfits figured out that was what they were doing, the competition would have better OCXO’s.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread Sanjeev Gupta
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 10:57 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > The new WWVB format is troublesome for older gear that looks at carrier > phase as a source of precision timing. The NTP driver does not do this. > > The new WWVB format is fine for any gear that recovers time from the > AM

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread Sanjeev Gupta
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Support for WWV in ntpd using the wwv_audio refclock is very good and > delivers jitters substantially less than a millisecond. I have been using > this for over a decade. > Thank you. In particular, WWV, as compared to

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Daniel Watson
Hi, I put one in a freezer and measured the current draw. At -12*C, it drew about 320 mA steady state (1.6W). Dan On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Rob Sherwood. wrote: > The part draws 600 mA during warm-up, and drops to around 230 to 200 mA > when stabilized. > Rob > NC0B > >

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Ok, I think we have a bit of a terminology issue here. The new WWVB format is troublesome for older gear that looks at carrier phase as a source of precision timing. The NTP driver does not do this. The new WWVB format is fine for any gear that recovers time from the AM modulation on the

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Bob Camp
Hi It’s not an electrical issue as much as a heat issue …. Before you start, consider that you will be doing something like: Move trimmer 1 turn CW Wait 10 minutes read frequency Move trimmer 1 turn CW wait / read Move trimer 1/2 turn CCW wait / read Move trimmer 1/4 turn CW wait / read Move

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The whole “BT Cut” issue was a big top secret in HP. They spent a lot of time obscuring the fact that they used BT’s. The belief was that if any of the other outfits figured out that was what they were doing, the competition would have better OCXO’s. Watch the frequency as it turns on. An

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Alex Pummer
Hi Dan how many of these oscillators have that low freq.hum? 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 2/27/2016 6:25 PM, Daniel Watson wrote: Hi, Attached is a plot of the output frequency difference from 10MHz during warm-up. I believe this indicates the crystal is SC cut. The VREF and EFC pins on the unit do

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Rob Sherwood .
The part draws 600 mA during warm-up, and drops to around 230 to 200 mA when stabilized. Rob NC0B -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:26 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread Tim Shoppa
Having a diversity of refclocks is important for any real NTP implementation. There is a strong tendency towards a GPS monoculture and the implementers must work against it. Support for WWV in ntpd using the wwv_audio refclock is very good and delivers jitters substantially less than a

Re: [time-nuts] MTI 260-0624-D OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Angus
On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 14:56:47 -0500, you wrote: >I think that there are a lot of unexplored possibilities, but I definitely am >not convinced that it sets either the inner or outer oven temperature. There >are simply better ways to do that in production. Hi Mike, On the two that I tested, it

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Nigel Vander Houwen
Hal, It depends a lot on the thermistor. As with any component, there are higher precision models that would be pretty repeatable within a model number, and cheaper ones that will be somewhat less repeatable. In this case I didn’t have a specific model number, nor specific nominal/beta values,

[time-nuts] WWVB format change in 2012

2016-02-28 Thread Sanjeev Gupta
Hi, I am reviewing and expanding and for the NTPSec project < http://www.ntpsec.org >, a fork of NTP. Among NTPSec's goals are a smaller, auditable, code-base; hence support for receivers last available in the early-1990s is being removed. I have been on this list for some years (thank you),

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A Repair

2016-02-28 Thread Nigel Vander Houwen
Mark, I don’t see that referenced in the documentation, and the frequency adjustment pot appears to be plastic, but I will compare a non-conductive tool, to a conductive one to see if it makes a difference. Nigel > On Feb 27, 2016, at 19:11, Mark Sims wrote: > > Also,

Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-28 Thread Rob Sherwood .
I would have to make the measurement again with the HP supply off. I have measured my Rubidium and my GPSDO and never seen anything like this spectra of close-spaced spurious. I'll send you some more data direct. Rob NC0B -Original Message- From: time-nuts