Re: [time-nuts] Excel logarithmic function (was Thermal impact on OCXO)

Hi Lars, There are a few other pieces I have yet to fully appreciate. One of which is that Aln(Bt+1) isn't a time-invariant model. In the most common case (for the mfg) the time scale aligns with infancy of the OCXO, when it's hot off the line. However after pre-aging, perhaps some service life, w

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

Christopher wrote: And of course it is a discontinued part. Taking suggestions for a replacement. COG(NP0)? I applaud your ingenuity and resourcefulness in tackling this project! I just love seeing nice old tech restored to service. Your three basic choices are mica, C0G/NP0 ceramic, and

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

yes 24 pf Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Christopher Hoover wrote: > OK, I think this folded-over cap sets the nominal XO frequency: > > (link in case it doesn't go through: https://goo.gl/photos/ > XHUCKTnC3NAB5rKD6 > ) > > I read the p/n as CY06C240J. 24 pFs? CGW would seem to

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

What value are you going to change it to? Since the frequency is too low, you probably have to reduce the capacitance somewhere. This one is only 24 pf 5% tolerance. It seems unlikely that this by itself is setting the frequency. It's rather small and the tolerance is rather large. Is ther

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

OK, I think this folded-over cap sets the nominal XO frequency: (link in case it doesn't go through: https://goo.gl/photos/XHUCKTnC3NAB5rKD6 ) I read the p/n as CY06C240J. 24 pFs? CGW would seem to be Corning Glass Works. On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > > Chris enj

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather for Z3801A (and other devices)

Thank you Mark, Spend time with your family this Thanksgiving. We will all appreciate it when it does arrive. 73, Bill, WA2DVU -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:14 AM To: time-nuts@febo.c

[time-nuts] Lady Heather for Z3801A (and other devices)

Besides the Trimble devices, the other devices include the Z3801, Z3811/Z3812 (aka Lucent KS2), Trimble/Symmetricom "UCCM" GPSDOs, Oscilloquartz STAR-4 GPSDO, NEC GPSDO, and NMEA, Ublox, Motorola, Venus, SIRF, NVS, etc GPS receivers, and GPSD. It is probably compatible with the Z3805

Re: [time-nuts] Excel logarithmic function (was Thermal impact on OCXO)

It really means that B will be harder to get a qualitative value for. Also, you need to have "clean" data or else you will be far off. Plot the estimated variant and also plot the difference. As Jim Barnes used to teach, always check the whiteness of matching residues! Cheers, Magnus On 11/23

Re: [time-nuts] HP 55300A

When I was testing the E1938A I used to run the environmental test chamber up to 85 degrees C, let the unit stabilize for a while, and then dump liquid nitrogen into the chamber to go to -55 degrees C in something like 2 minutes. The temperature inside the crystal oven fluctuated maybe a millideg

Re: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC

Fantastic John - well done! Yes, I'll definitely put an order in as soon as possible. Regards, Peter (G8ZZR, London) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tim

[time-nuts] How can I measure GPS Antenna quality?

Yes. It also works with GPSD so should be able to work with any device that GPSD supports. It also works with most common GPS receiver native binary languages and provides full device control. --- > This looks to be a most useful and helpful display. Will the program do

Re: [time-nuts] Excel logarithmic function (was Thermal impact on OCXO)

Hi Scott. Here is a textfile with data for the 10 years (As in the graph 2001-2011). Also the ln(bt+1) fit, as Magnus said, has the derivate b/(b*t+1) that with b*t >>1 is 1/t. But my data has the aging between 1 and 10 years more like 1/sqrt(t) If I just have a brief look on the aging graph.

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

And of course it is a discontinued part. Taking suggestions for a replacement. COG(NP0)? On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Christopher Hoover wrote: > Part number decoder on page 4 of: > > http://www.mouser.com/catalog/supplier/library/pdf/AVXGlassDielectric.pdf > > CY = glass > 06 = case si

Re: [time-nuts] Excel logarithmic function (was Thermal impact on OCXO)

Bob, I have to ask about the B-term. In the paper that Scott started this with I see that B was 4.45. But if I understand you correct Bt<1 even at 30days is normal? That would mean a B of <0.033? Lars >Bob wrote: >In a conventional fit situation, you have < 30 days worth of data and the >“time

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

Part number decoder on page 4 of: http://www.mouser.com/catalog/supplier/library/pdf/AVXGlassDielectric.pdf CY = glass 06 = case size C = operating temp (-55 C to +125 C) 240 = 24 pF J = tolerance (+/- 5%) On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Christopher Hoover wrote: > OK, I think this folded

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

Thanks Tom. I always like to see the insides of things. You just never know when strange things show up in strange places like flea markets and they do. At least at MIT. It gives you a clue. Have a good thanks giving. Regards Paul On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > > Chris e

Re: [time-nuts] Thermal impact on OCXO

Thanks Azelio, I have also thought that the EFC range probably says something. The datasheet for the OFC4834 says EFC range +-0.4ppm and that that should be enough for 15 years. The OFC MC834, I have seems very similar, but without EFC. So my 68ppm drift is well within the +-400ppb Lars >From

Re: [time-nuts] Do reflections up/down the antenna cable cause a problem, with GPS? (Bob Camp)

Hello all, I'm a recent recruit to this list, it looks very interesting and I hope I can make a contribution. Though now retired I'm an electronics & radio engineer and until last March worked for u-blox (though not on the GNSS side of the business). Looking at their product integration guide

Re: [time-nuts] Thermal impact on OCXO

Hi Bob, I was afraid that the answer should be like this (smile). One paper from MTI that probably confirms that aging prediction is difficult: http://www.mti-milliren.com/MTIPapers/Ext_Aging_Perf_Results.pdf Lars From: Bob Camp Sent: den 19 november 2016 00:23 Hi > On

Re: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC

That TI TDC7200 really is a nice part. Neat project! Will buy . Two thumbs up. On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 7:48 AM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require > either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a bunch

[time-nuts] Time, NTD, IoT and bug fixes

Given recent discussions of IoT, NTP and wall clocks, this may be of interest http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/11/23/ntp_patch_time_rolls_around_again/ And the vulnerabilities: http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/633847 -- Clint. *No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large

Re: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC

Hi Cool !!! Bob > On Nov 23, 2016, at 10:48 AM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > > Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require > either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a bunch > of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by f

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather for Z3801A (and other devices)

Oh there is hope then. That would be a good way to finish the year. Thanks everyone. Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Mark Sims wrote: > I had hoped to get the 5.0 release out last weekend but got distracted... > this weekend for sure... maybe... perhaps... > _

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather for Z3801A (and other devices)

Hi Code as in firmware inside the Z3801 (the question I answered) or as in LH (the question I didn’t answer). Bob > On Nov 23, 2016, at 11:31 AM, paul swed wrote: > > Bob, > Thank you for the insight. When I was reading the thread about 2 months ago > I was thinking this was official. (As far

Re: [time-nuts] Best replacement for Trimble Bullet antenna

I think I'll stick with the bullet antenna. It's the right shape and has been fine for the Thunderbolt to use. My TB is used for my NTP server and for 10 MHz reference and I check it regularly with several tools. I think it's somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison when considering patch anten

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather for Z3801A (and other devices)

Bob, Thank you for the insight. When I was reading the thread about 2 months ago I was thinking this was official. (As far as it gets) OK can that thought. Would have been great to have the TBolt and Z3801 working. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > No

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

> Chris enjoying the pictures. Most likely I will never run into one of these > oscillators. But it is nice to know that you have gone "where no man has > gone before". Star Trek? Not sure. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL Paul, I have quite a few vintage FTS 1200's here and will be doing a grand compar

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather for Z3801A (and other devices)

Hi Paul, Our LH Guru is working on an update for 3801 and 3811. It will do all sort of things and even cook dinner. He has not said when it will be available but it will be soon. 73, Bill, WA2DVU Cape May -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Beha

[time-nuts] Lady Heather for Z3801A (and other devices)

I had hoped to get the 5.0 release out last weekend but got distracted... this weekend for sure... maybe... perhaps... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and f

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather for Z3801A (and other devices)

Hi None of the code for any of these devices was ever “released” by it’s owners / creators. It appears that in many cases, the code in parts currently shipping is *very* similar to the code from decades ago …thus their reluctance to release the old code. Oddly enough some of the code is indee

Re: [time-nuts] Best replacement for Trimble Bullet antenna

Hi Regardless of material the gotcha is that the plastic has a dielectric constant. That turns it into a lens and moves the phase center. If the phase center moves with sat angle, you get a different path length based on angle. That messes up your solution, even for timing. Do you care about th

Re: [time-nuts] Best replacement for Trimble Bullet antenna

At work I have access to an industrial one that (I am told) uses lasers to harden a liquid... something. I'm not a plastic expert. We use that stuff for outdoor enclosures and it is UHF transparent, at least to some degree (it would have to be given our use case). I used it once to make a couple

Re: [time-nuts] How can I measure GPS Antenna quality?

The interpolation does not spread the data to where sats have not appeared... what it effectively does is intelligently make the dots bigger... but only along the azimuth "axis". For each elevation angle, it starts at azimuth 0 degrees and searches forward until it sees a point with signal.

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather for Z3801A (and other devices)

Curious if the code for the z3801 was ever released? Thanks Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Bill Riches wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Will it work with Z3811 (KS24361) > > 73, > > Bill, WA2DVU > Cape May > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

Hi …. but … you might *build* one of those oscillators. The Dewar flask OCXO thing died out many decades ago. The main reason was size. A secondary reason was the fragile nature of a Dewar (they don’t take well to being dropped … I have empirical evidence). Neither one of these issues is parti

Re: [time-nuts] Need for a document comparing time interval counters

Hi In a market that only *has* two competitors doing new gear and each only has a single high end counter …. there’s not a lot to talk about. At this point it’s not really clear if the Pendulum designs have a future at all. That would get you down to one still doing new designs. Sorting out s

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

Chris enjoying the pictures. Most likely I will never run into one of these oscillators. But it is nice to know that you have gone "where no man has gone before". Star Trek? Not sure. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 1:45 AM, Christopher Hoover wrote: > A Wiha nutdriver set later and

Re: [time-nuts] Best replacement for Trimble Bullet antenna

Hi Ummm …. e …. radio transparent plastic. You want to avoid making a lens that distorts the paths over the antenna so it’s not just an issue of transparent. You also want it to be “clear” (non distorting). You need it to be stable in terms of UV, humidity and temperature. The guys who mad

Re: [time-nuts] Need for a document comparing time interval counters

On 21 November 2016 at 21:10, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > With both counters running on the same external standard (and no internal > OCXO), the 53230 > beats the 53132 both on frequency and time. It also has slightly better > isolation of the 10 MHz > internals so the “dead zone” at 10 MHz is not q

Re: [time-nuts] How can I measure GPS Antenna quality?

> I'd like to try something like a Voronoi tessellation, but that gets rather nasty to implement.. There's a boost library... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] How can I measure GPS Antenna quality?

The interpolation does not spread the data to where sats have not appeared... what it effectively does is intelligently make the dots bigger... but only along the azimuth "axis". For each elevation angle, it starts at azimuth 0 degrees and searches forward until it sees a point with signal

[time-nuts] Galileo launch (Fwd: [Nagu] NAGU 2016050)

They launched the set of 4 Galileo satellites. Cheers, Magnus Forwarded Message Subject: [Nagu] NAGU 2016050 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 09:33:03 +0100 From: att...@kinali.ch Reply-To: Distributor for Galileo NAGU in readable form To: n...@lists.kinali.ch NOTICE ADVISORY TO GAL

Re: [time-nuts] Best replacement for Trimble Bullet antenna

Your problem will be Birds and Debris, it is flat and you will have interruptions and phase shifts. Did you not understand why we use pointed antennas for timing and fixed installations. Respectfully as Always, Dennis, kv...@arrl.net, & Senior Fellow IEEE A US Navy Nuclear Submarine Veter

Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100

A Wiha nutdriver set later and I'm in: https://goo.gl/photos/SDHtvgFmftQq6vYJA See the last two pictures. I will disassemble the board stack and work out some schematics next. Thanks everyone. -ch 73 de AI6KG On Nov 20, 2016 5:19 AM, "J. L. Trantham" wrote: Christopher, Enjoyed the pictures

Re: [time-nuts] Best replacement for Trimble Bullet antenna

> On Nov 22, 2016, at 9:39 PM, Dennis Lloyd wrote: > > Your problem will be Birds and Debris, it is flat and you will have > interruptions and phase shifts. > > Did you not understand why we use pointed antennas for timing and fixed > installations. No, I guess I didn’t. That said, our cats