Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[Bill Hawkins]

Well, if you don't pay your bills, the power company can't afford the
fuel required to keep up with demand.
Stability of the system frequency requires a balance between supply and
demand. If the demand exceeds supply then the generators must slow down.
In a synchronous network, all generators must slow down to reduce strain
on the network. If strain is exceeded, circuit breakers pop until the
demand equals supply. So if a part of the network has to slow down from
lack of fuel, then the entire network has to slow down to prevent
popping circuit breakers until demand power equals supply.

Hope that helps,
Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David
G. McGaw
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2018 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

Can someone please explain why not paying your bills causes the grid and
therefore the clocks to slow down?  None of the reports, either for the
technical or lay person, give a reason.

David N1HAC



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Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[Hal Murray]

If you don't pay your bills, the guy who was sending you power stops sending 
it so your zone starts running without enough power.

-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

When there is more demand than generation, the frequency of the grid
drops.   My understanding is that one particular country is pulling more
from the grid than they are generating, and for political/and or financial
reasons which are a bit unclear, noone is willing to generate enough power
to balance the grid.  For most of the generators, the most likely reason is
probably because they aren't wanting to generate the power for free.

In essence this power is being stolen from the grid and not being returned,
causing the frequency variation.

On Mar 9, 2018 12:06 AM, "David G. McGaw" 
wrote:

Can someone please explain why not paying your bills causes the grid and
therefore the clocks to slow down?  None of the reports, either for the
technical or lay person, give a reason.

David N1HAC



On 3/8/18 5:00 PM, Pieter-Tjerk de Boer wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Here's my graph of the mains grid phase deviation over the last month, and
> for comparison the normal behaviour during the previous year:
>
>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%
> 2F%2Fwwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl%2F~ptdeboer%2Fmisc%2Fmains-
> 2018.html=02%7C01%7Cdavid.g.mcgaw%40dartmouth.
> edu%7Cea149d08d4134d49c94908d58552ea8e%7C995b093648d640e5a31
> ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C636561513531276977=LwRuSvSr0HO
> kxvFoI26uFxgjAxbFif6ytgxe4U2Q%2BQE%3D=0
>
>
> This is measured in Enschede, the Netherlands, by time-stamping every mains
> cycle using NTP for reference.
>
> Naturally, the 2018 part of the graph nicely matches the graph Detlef
> posted.
>
> Regards,
>Pieter-Tjerk de Boer (PA3FWM)
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 08, 2018 at 03:50:42PM +0100, d.schuec...@avm.de wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> from new years eve until today 00:00 the European Electricity Grid entsoe
>> lost 16891 sinewaves, nearly 338 seconds. Enclosed you find the sketch of
>> the development. From March 2 they are going to catch up again, it seems.
>>
>> I do a record of the grid frequency. My timebase is a TCXO, 0.4ppm off. I
>> get a frequency value for any single sinewave, precision is 1.4*10^-4 Hz.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Detlef Schücker
>> DD4WV
>>
>> (See attached file: lostseconds.pdf)
>>
>> "time-nuts"  schrieb am 08.03.2018 02:16:55:
>>
>> Von: Gerhard Hoffmann 
>>> An: time-nuts@febo.com
>>> Datum: 08.03.2018 02:41
>>> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks
>>> Gesendet von: "time-nuts" 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 07.03.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp:
>>>
 This explains why my oven clock and the time/temperature display
> on the building outside my apartment in Switzerland are six minutes
> slow since January. It was a great mystery to me.
>
 Can you get a picture of this ?  It would be wonderful to have for

>>> future discussions...
>>> Does that help?
>>>
>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%
>>> 2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F137684711%40N07%2F3887075044
>>> 0%2Fin%2F=02%7C01%7Cdavid.g.mcgaw%40dartmouth.
>>> edu%7Cea149d08d4134d49c94908d58552ea8e%7C995b093648d640e5a31
>>> ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C636561513531276977=tOoi%
>>> 2BsnXyQjy0%2FGXCyOtOInytUmckrvoKGIO1G%2FRpnE%3D=0
>>>
>>> album-72157662535945536/
>>>   >
>>>
>>> Input to the counter is just an AC wall wart with a voltage divider to
>>>
>> 4Vpp.
>>
>>> Now, the frequency has risen to above 50.02 Hz constantly. It is in the
>>> middle of the night after all.
>>> They have to catch up.
>>>
>>> BTW I have decided to build an analog phase noise tester of my own. This
>>> weekend
>>> I did most of the mechanical things, but it is still in a kit state.
>>>
>>> The pictures are to the left of the 49 Hz-Pic.
>>> The 1-to-6 coax relays are part of the switchable lambda/4 delay line,
>>> so I can enforce
>>> quadrature everywhere above 5 MHz, including unknown amplifiers etc.
>>> Still looking for 2 more 1:6 relays.
>>>
>>> The mixers and dividers are in stereo, so I can do cross correlation in
>>> the 89441A.
>>> One of the mixer/preamp units is open, the ref oscillators will be
>>> MTI-260s on
>>> my oscillator carrier board.
>>>
>>> Have a good night,
>>> Gerhard
>>>
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%
>> 2F%2Fwww.febo.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftime-
>> nuts=02%7C01%7Cdavid.g.mcgaw%40dartmouth.edu%7Cea149d
>> 08d4134d49c94908d58552ea8e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446
>> f%7C0%7C0%7C636561513531276977=WbFAlHeph%2BzrkQoiRBN4r
>> qFUp0zf5gdIeMP6LHzv%2FTw%3D=0
>>
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>
> ___
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>> ion.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.febo.com%2Fcgi-bin%
>> 

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[Andy Backus]

Please forgive that I am a lurker and have not contributed.


But this last thread caught my eye since I monitor the time error for the 
Western Grid here in the US.


Over the last year the usual variation is very much the same as in David's 
graph for 2017 -- i.e., +/- 30 seconds.  The power folks worldwide must all 
read the same journals.


There was a time, before October, 2015, that the TE here was kept to +/- 10 sec 
(and years before that even closer).  Maintaining tight TE, however, threatens 
the stability of load/source balancing.  And there are fewer and fewer 
synchronous clocks in use.


If anyone is interested I have data (every minute) for the last two years.


Andy Backus

Bellingham, WA



From: time-nuts  on behalf of David G. McGaw 

Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:01 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

Can someone please explain why not paying your bills causes the grid and
therefore the clocks to slow down?  None of the reports, either for the
technical or lay person, give a reason.

David N1HAC


On 3/8/18 5:00 PM, Pieter-Tjerk de Boer wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Here's my graph of the mains grid phase deviation over the last month, and
> for comparison the normal behaviour during the previous year:
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl%2F~ptdeboer%2Fmisc%2Fmains-2018.html=02%7C01%7Cdavid.g.mcgaw%40dartmouth.edu%7Cea149d08d4134d49c94908d58552ea8e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C636561513531276977=LwRuSvSr0HOkxvFoI26uFxgjAxbFif6ytgxe4U2Q%2BQE%3D=0
>
> This is measured in Enschede, the Netherlands, by time-stamping every mains
> cycle using NTP for reference.
>
> Naturally, the 2018 part of the graph nicely matches the graph Detlef posted.
>
> Regards,
>Pieter-Tjerk de Boer (PA3FWM)
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 08, 2018 at 03:50:42PM +0100, d.schuec...@avm.de wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> from new years eve until today 00:00 the European Electricity Grid entsoe
>> lost 16891 sinewaves, nearly 338 seconds. Enclosed you find the sketch of
>> the development. From March 2 they are going to catch up again, it seems.
>>
>> I do a record of the grid frequency. My timebase is a TCXO, 0.4ppm off. I
>> get a frequency value for any single sinewave, precision is 1.4*10^-4 Hz.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Detlef Schücker
>> DD4WV
>>
>> (See attached file: lostseconds.pdf)
>>
>> "time-nuts"  schrieb am 08.03.2018 02:16:55:
>>
>>> Von: Gerhard Hoffmann 
>>> An: time-nuts@febo.com
>>> Datum: 08.03.2018 02:41
>>> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks
>>> Gesendet von: "time-nuts" 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 07.03.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp:
> This explains why my oven clock and the time/temperature display
> on the building outside my apartment in Switzerland are six minutes
> slow since January. It was a great mystery to me.
 Can you get a picture of this ?  It would be wonderful to have for
>>> future discussions...
>>> Does that help?
>>>
>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F137684711%40N07%2F38870750440%2Fin%2F=02%7C01%7Cdavid.g.mcgaw%40dartmouth.edu%7Cea149d08d4134d49c94908d58552ea8e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C636561513531276977=tOoi%2BsnXyQjy0%2FGXCyOtOInytUmckrvoKGIO1G%2FRpnE%3D=0
>>> album-72157662535945536/
>>>   >
>>>
>>> Input to the counter is just an AC wall wart with a voltage divider to
>> 4Vpp.
>>> Now, the frequency has risen to above 50.02 Hz constantly. It is in the
>>> middle of the night after all.
>>> They have to catch up.
>>>
>>> BTW I have decided to build an analog phase noise tester of my own. This
>>> weekend
>>> I did most of the mechanical things, but it is still in a kit state.
>>>
>>> The pictures are to the left of the 49 Hz-Pic.
>>> The 1-to-6 coax relays are part of the switchable lambda/4 delay line,
>>> so I can enforce
>>> quadrature everywhere above 5 MHz, including unknown amplifiers etc.
>>> Still looking for 2 more 1:6 relays.
>>>
>>> The mixers and dividers are in stereo, so I can do cross correlation in
>>> the 89441A.
>>> One of the mixer/preamp units is open, the ref oscillators will be
>>> MTI-260s on
>>> my oscillator carrier board.
>>>
>>> Have a good night,
>>> Gerhard
>>>
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.febo.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftime-nuts=02%7C01%7Cdavid.g.mcgaw%40dartmouth.edu%7Cea149d08d4134d49c94908d58552ea8e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C636561513531276977=WbFAlHeph%2BzrkQoiRBN4rqFUp0zf5gdIeMP6LHzv%2FTw%3D=0
>>> and follow 

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[David G. McGaw]

Can someone please explain why not paying your bills causes the grid and 
therefore the clocks to slow down?  None of the reports, either for the 
technical or lay person, give a reason.


David N1HAC


On 3/8/18 5:00 PM, Pieter-Tjerk de Boer wrote:

Hello all,

Here's my graph of the mains grid phase deviation over the last month, and
for comparison the normal behaviour during the previous year:

   
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl%2F~ptdeboer%2Fmisc%2Fmains-2018.html=02%7C01%7Cdavid.g.mcgaw%40dartmouth.edu%7Cea149d08d4134d49c94908d58552ea8e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C636561513531276977=LwRuSvSr0HOkxvFoI26uFxgjAxbFif6ytgxe4U2Q%2BQE%3D=0

This is measured in Enschede, the Netherlands, by time-stamping every mains
cycle using NTP for reference.

Naturally, the 2018 part of the graph nicely matches the graph Detlef posted.

Regards,
   Pieter-Tjerk de Boer (PA3FWM)



On Thu, Mar 08, 2018 at 03:50:42PM +0100, d.schuec...@avm.de wrote:

Hi,

from new years eve until today 00:00 the European Electricity Grid entsoe
lost 16891 sinewaves, nearly 338 seconds. Enclosed you find the sketch of
the development. From March 2 they are going to catch up again, it seems.

I do a record of the grid frequency. My timebase is a TCXO, 0.4ppm off. I
get a frequency value for any single sinewave, precision is 1.4*10^-4 Hz.

Cheers
Detlef Schücker
DD4WV

(See attached file: lostseconds.pdf)

"time-nuts"  schrieb am 08.03.2018 02:16:55:


Von: Gerhard Hoffmann 
An: time-nuts@febo.com
Datum: 08.03.2018 02:41
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks
Gesendet von: "time-nuts" 



Am 07.03.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp:

This explains why my oven clock and the time/temperature display
on the building outside my apartment in Switzerland are six minutes
slow since January. It was a great mystery to me.

Can you get a picture of this ?  It would be wonderful to have for

future discussions...
Does that help?

<
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F137684711%40N07%2F38870750440%2Fin%2F=02%7C01%7Cdavid.g.mcgaw%40dartmouth.edu%7Cea149d08d4134d49c94908d58552ea8e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C636561513531276977=tOoi%2BsnXyQjy0%2FGXCyOtOInytUmckrvoKGIO1G%2FRpnE%3D=0
album-72157662535945536/
          >

Input to the counter is just an AC wall wart with a voltage divider to

4Vpp.

Now, the frequency has risen to above 50.02 Hz constantly. It is in the
middle of the night after all.
They have to catch up.

BTW I have decided to build an analog phase noise tester of my own. This
weekend
I did most of the mechanical things, but it is still in a kit state.

The pictures are to the left of the 49 Hz-Pic.
The 1-to-6 coax relays are part of the switchable lambda/4 delay line,
so I can enforce
quadrature everywhere above 5 MHz, including unknown amplifiers etc.
Still looking for 2 more 1:6 relays.

The mixers and dividers are in stereo, so I can do cross correlation in
the 89441A.
One of the mixer/preamp units is open, the ref oscillators will be
MTI-260s on
my oscillator carrier board.

Have a good night,
Gerhard

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[time-nuts] GPS L2 CNAV health reporting changes

[J. Grizzard]

I got a message from the Swiftnav support folks yesterday (I have a 
piksi multi amongst my little fleet of GPSen) because they had an 
emergency firmware patch to their kit because of a change in the L2C 
signal was giving them issues. (Props to them for getting a firmware 
update out in ~12 hour, too)


After a little bit of inquiring, it looks like what happened is that 
yesterday, the L2 CNAV message started marking all of the L1 signals as 
unhealthy. If a device actually listens to this health signal 
(apparently their GPS did), suddenly most GPS satellites become unusable 
(with the only remaining ones being ones that aren't transmitting an L2C 
signal).


(According to NANU 2014039, you shouldn't be using those health 
indicators, though it does also say that the L1 health indicators would 
all indicate "healthy", so this seems to be a departure from their 
stated plan.)


Anyhow, probably doesn't affect anyone here, but I thought it was 
interesting. Sadly, I can't see what's actually being transmitted, since 
my only pieces of kit that can decode L2C are my piksi (which won't give 
me raw NAV/CNAV, and they apparently have zero interest in adding that 
functionality), and the Novatel OEM628 that I picked up off eBay last 
year ... which crashes every 20 or 30 minutes if I ask it to decode L2C. 
Argh.


(Maybe u-blox's upcoming kit will be affordable(ish) and have good raw 
CNAV output... I can hope, right?)


-j

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Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[Pieter-Tjerk de Boer]

Hello all,

Here's my graph of the mains grid phase deviation over the last month, and
for comparison the normal behaviour during the previous year:

  http://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/misc/mains-2018.html

This is measured in Enschede, the Netherlands, by time-stamping every mains
cycle using NTP for reference.

Naturally, the 2018 part of the graph nicely matches the graph Detlef posted.

Regards,
  Pieter-Tjerk de Boer (PA3FWM)



On Thu, Mar 08, 2018 at 03:50:42PM +0100, d.schuec...@avm.de wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> from new years eve until today 00:00 the European Electricity Grid entsoe
> lost 16891 sinewaves, nearly 338 seconds. Enclosed you find the sketch of
> the development. From March 2 they are going to catch up again, it seems.
> 
> I do a record of the grid frequency. My timebase is a TCXO, 0.4ppm off. I
> get a frequency value for any single sinewave, precision is 1.4*10^-4 Hz.
> 
> Cheers
> Detlef Schücker
> DD4WV
> 
> (See attached file: lostseconds.pdf)
> 
> "time-nuts"  schrieb am 08.03.2018 02:16:55:
> 
> > Von: Gerhard Hoffmann 
> > An: time-nuts@febo.com
> > Datum: 08.03.2018 02:41
> > Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks
> > Gesendet von: "time-nuts" 
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 07.03.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp:
> > >
> > >> This explains why my oven clock and the time/temperature display
> > >> on the building outside my apartment in Switzerland are six minutes
> > >> slow since January. It was a great mystery to me.
> > > Can you get a picture of this ?  It would be wonderful to have for
> > future discussions...
> > >
> > Does that help?
> >
> > <
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/38870750440/in/
> > album-72157662535945536/
> >          >
> >
> > Input to the counter is just an AC wall wart with a voltage divider to
> 4Vpp.
> > Now, the frequency has risen to above 50.02 Hz constantly. It is in the
> > middle of the night after all.
> > They have to catch up.
> >
> > BTW I have decided to build an analog phase noise tester of my own. This
> > weekend
> > I did most of the mechanical things, but it is still in a kit state.
> >
> > The pictures are to the left of the 49 Hz-Pic.
> > The 1-to-6 coax relays are part of the switchable lambda/4 delay line,
> > so I can enforce
> > quadrature everywhere above 5 MHz, including unknown amplifiers etc.
> > Still looking for 2 more 1:6 relays.
> >
> > The mixers and dividers are in stereo, so I can do cross correlation in
> > the 89441A.
> > One of the mixer/preamp units is open, the ref oscillators will be
> > MTI-260s on
> > my oscillator carrier board.
> >
> > Have a good night,
> > Gerhard
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.


> ___
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> and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[Tim Shoppa]

If the drift had been 5 or 15 seconds over a few days, sure, "catching up"
is right.

But after two months of accumulated 7 minutes deviation, surely everyone
has already manually adjusted their clocks? And in the process of the grid
"catching up" won't everyones clocks now be 7 minutes fast after the
catch-up?

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:50 AM,  wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> from new years eve until today 00:00 the European Electricity Grid entsoe
> lost 16891 sinewaves, nearly 338 seconds. Enclosed you find the sketch of
> the development. From March 2 they are going to catch up again, it seems.
>
> I do a record of the grid frequency. My timebase is a TCXO, 0.4ppm off. I
> get a frequency value for any single sinewave, precision is 1.4*10^-4 Hz.
>
> Cheers
> Detlef Schücker
> DD4WV
>
> (See attached file: lostseconds.pdf)
>
> "time-nuts"  schrieb am 08.03.2018 02:16:55:
>
> > Von: Gerhard Hoffmann 
> > An: time-nuts@febo.com
> > Datum: 08.03.2018 02:41
> > Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks
> > Gesendet von: "time-nuts" 
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 07.03.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp:
> > >
> > >> This explains why my oven clock and the time/temperature display
> > >> on the building outside my apartment in Switzerland are six minutes
> > >> slow since January. It was a great mystery to me.
> > > Can you get a picture of this ?  It would be wonderful to have for
> > future discussions...
> > >
> > Does that help?
> >
> > <
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/38870750440/in/
> > album-72157662535945536/
> >  >
> >
> > Input to the counter is just an AC wall wart with a voltage divider to
> 4Vpp.
> > Now, the frequency has risen to above 50.02 Hz constantly. It is in the
> > middle of the night after all.
> > They have to catch up.
> >
> > BTW I have decided to build an analog phase noise tester of my own. This
> > weekend
> > I did most of the mechanical things, but it is still in a kit state.
> >
> > The pictures are to the left of the 49 Hz-Pic.
> > The 1-to-6 coax relays are part of the switchable lambda/4 delay line,
> > so I can enforce
> > quadrature everywhere above 5 MHz, including unknown amplifiers etc.
> > Still looking for 2 more 1:6 relays.
> >
> > The mixers and dividers are in stereo, so I can do cross correlation in
> > the 89441A.
> > One of the mixer/preamp units is open, the ref oscillators will be
> > MTI-260s on
> > my oscillator carrier board.
> >
> > Have a good night,
> > Gerhard
> >
> > ___
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> > To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[Bill Woodcock]

> On Mar 8, 2018, at 6:39 AM, Jean-Louis Rault  wrote:
> 
> A picture of my own microwaves oven, this 8th of march, near Paris, France .


https://preview.entsoe.eu/news/2018/03/06/press-release-continuing-frequency-deviation-in-the-continental-european-power-system-originating-in-serbia-kosovo-political-solution-urgently-needed-in-addition-to-technical/


-Bill



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[time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[Jean-Louis Rault]

A picture of my own microwaves oven, this 8th of march, near Paris, France .

The time reference is a DCF77 radio controlled clock.

Jean-Louis Rault

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Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

[Jean-Louis Rault]

A picture of my own microwaves oven, this 8th of march, near Paris, France .

The time reference is a DCF77 radio controlled clock.

Jean-Louis Rault



Le 07/03/2018 à 21:09, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit :


In message 
<1520456485.3091982.1295242984.442b4...@webmail.messagingengine.com>, Pete 
Stephenson
  writes:

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018, at 9:28 PM, Mark Sims wrote:

A more detailed explanation of what is happening:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/03/ovens-across-europe-display-the-wrong-time-due-to-a-serbia-kosovo-grid-dispute/

This explains why my oven clock and the time/temperature display
on the building outside my apartment in Switzerland are six minutes
slow since January. It was a great mystery to me.

Can you get a picture of this ?  It would be wonderful to have for future 
discussions...



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Re: [time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

[Philip Jackson]

This might be of interest.  I don't know any more about it than is stated at
the site below:
 
https://www.greenlake-eng.com/it/products/time-products/gle-tcsw/
 
Philip

-- Forwarded message --
From: Bob Martin 
Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply
To: time-nuts@febo.com


RANDOM QUESTION -- does anybody know of software to *generate* IRIG time
code? Something in C that's adaptable to a modern micro would be good. In
something like a Raspberry Pi 3, IRIG generation would make a nice addition
to Lady Heather...

cheers and 73,

Bob K6RTM

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Re: [time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

On 03/07/2018 09:05 PM, Mark Sims wrote:
> I once looked into adding IRIG generation to Lady Heather.   I never came up 
> with a reliable / robust way to do it.  It could possibly be done with some 
> of the Windows multi-media support, but that would leave the 
> Linux/macOS/FreeBSD people in the dark.
> 
> I just added TS2100 support to Lady Heather... but it only reads the time 
> code output string and drives the clock displays.   I don't have a TS2100 to 
> properly test it, but it works when fed with a simulation file.

Well, I have an unfinished IRIG-B project here:

https://github.com/sa0mad/irigb

I have run that decoder in realtime from a Brandywine GPS4 IRIG-B output
on my Linux laptop.

Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] How to properly simulate PLLs?

[Sebastian Weiß]

Hi Attila, have a look at CPPSim.
http://www.cppsim.com/Tutorials/synthesizer_tutorial.pdf

Sebastian

On 07.03.2018 17:42, Attila Kinali wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a small side task, where I need to design a PLL system
> As it is a bit non-conventional, I am not confident that my
> pen and paper analysis is correct and the usuall tool I use
> (Analog's ADPLLsim) doesn't cover it. So my first thought
> was to use spice to simulate the loop. But I am not sure
> how the non-linear effects of the PLL, the divider chains etc
> affect the whole system and whether a spice simulation (which
> would use a linear approximation of a few components) would
> model the system faithfully. Not to mention that this would
> be only valid simulation of the locked state and anything
> that involves the PLL being unlocked (initial lock in process,
> large phase and frequency jumps that cause unlocks) cannot
> be handled at all. Neither would it give me a proper estimate
> of the noise propagation through the system.
> 
> So, is there any canonical way how to simulate PLLs?
> If yes, what should I read? (My google foo didn't return
> anything helpful).
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
>   Attila Kinali
> 
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