[time-nuts] 100% Gamble HP 5062C
Found the 5 MHz osc assembly floating around and the nuts removed from the PCB https://photos.app.goo.gl/5AM9tW26UQYNyz1k2 -pete ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GPS antenna gain
I had the misfortune of using those very PCTEL antennas in a timing application and excessive gain was a problem with the loss of frame sync whenever the receiver had too much signal from any satellite. It was a highly intermittent problem that appeared every few days; always after I had tested and verified things were working, a failure would happen in the middle of the night, the day after I flew home. Of course I had made all of the "terrible choices" of making sure that the antennas had a clear shot to the sky and coax cable lengths were minimized to reduce loss. After a few weeks of fighting the issue the solution ended up being 10 dB attenuators that could pass DC bias. The WiMAX radio manufacturer initially insisted that I ordered third-party GPS timing antennas from somewhere and ignored (their not documented) specification. It got ugly until I provided the invoice showing that I bought those over-amped up antennas from them, right out of their parts list. I still have a few of those antennas floating around here in the house. *Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA* ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TV Signals as a frequency reference
I was a chief engineer for a TV station during the transition to digital. I am now a transmitter supervisor for two digital TV transmitters. None of the stations in my area have a frequency standard. Time in injected into the digital stream usually from a pc clock. This pc may or may not be allowed to communicate with a ntp server. The way you determine the frequency of a digital tv station is to look at the spectrum and determine the frequency of the pilot which is the highest peak in the spectrum. There is no requirement for us to inject time of any prescribed accuracy into the digital stream. The tv transmitter may or may not be locked to a gps derived source. The exciter is usually synthesized with the reference as a crystal that may or may not be stabilized by any accurate means. At a previous UHF station, the frequency was controlled by a TO-5 cased crystal in a very small oven. I would not rely on a signal from a tv station as a time or frequency standard unless you know how their timing and frequency is derived. 73 Glenn WB4UIV On 3/31/2018 9:38 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi My comments really were a bit brief…. indeed there *are* clocks in the modern signals. Those clocks come over as part of the signal you get. The must be a way to build something that would get at those clocks. You still have the same basic issue as with the “old” signals. Does it go through a satellite link? Does it come straight from a Cs based studio? Does it get regenerated against an OCXO or a TCXO? All of that will make it a good reference “some of the time”. Working out when that is …. good luck. You probably would do better to build a gizmo to pull timing off you local cell towers. The hardware to do it is relatively well documented. As long as you are careful about which system you use, the timing should be GPS based …. Ok, so the issue is an alternative to GPS? Well one of the “likely sources” for a modern TV broadcast setup would be a GPSDO. The same thing for the modern digital FM broadcast setups. I have good reason to make this claim ….. :) Bob On Mar 31, 2018, at 1:43 AM, Hal Murray wrote: As noted earlier, color burst references were a big deal a long time ago. Thanks. I was fishing for something modern, maybe a bit clock out of the digital receiver. I'm assuming that the digital stream is locked to the carrier. That may not be correct. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- --- Glenn LittleARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417 Amateur Callsign: WB4UIVwb4...@arrl.netAMSAT LM 2178 QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI LM NRA LM SBE ARRL TAPR "It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class of the Amateur that holds the license" ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Repairs and mods underway on HP 3586b
Thanks to those who responded to my requests off-list for details on correcting a partially functional HP 3586b. Here is where I am at with it; Replaced the incandescent lamp inside of the 5060-0329 rotary encoder for a white LED with a resistor to work at 5VDC. Ordered a 75 ohm BNC chassis jack Installed two BNC-SMB cables for the 50 MHz connections that are normally covered with blank plugs on the back panel Removed all of the buttons and soaked them for a few hours in a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and oxy-clean to remove the brownish oxidation (in the process) of pulling the little wafer springs out of each switch and rotating the metal around 180 degrees so the buttons do not need to make a hard "click" replaced the NiCad battery with an NiMH The unit already had the 10 MHz precision oscillator module (thanks to Perry Sandeen for that). I have a couple of Rb standards that are already used for metrology (spec-an's, tracking generators, R-590 and a couple of other receivers). I will probably stick with those as frequency references as they are usually running for days at a time. *Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA* ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org said: > I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and > multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should be > some preparations for this now. How well do various GNSS track UTC and/or eachother? > The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. I've been assuming the cheap GPS jammers will kill the others too. Are there any signals far enough away from L1 that they might get through? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA
just use a bias tee to feed in the antenna volts :) -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: 01 April 2018 23:29 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA An unusual attenuator with a DC pass. On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 10:21 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: > Or use a choke ring survey antenna and an attenuator :) > > Dave > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob > kb8tq > Sent: 01 April 2018 14:43 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA > > Hi > > Indeed, it is *very* easy to put to much gain in front of a timing GNSS > receiver. These beasts are trying to dig out a signal that you can’t even see > with a spectrum analyzer. > It’s way to far below the noise floor to detect that way. They optimize > things pretty tightly to get that done (and to hit a price target ….). Put to > much gain in front of them and they get unhappy. > > Making this even more crazy, the survey industry standard antenna *does* have > a lot of gain. Survey receivers need way more gain in front of them than > timing receivers. Put a survey antenna directly on a timing device and > trouble will likely be the outcome. Equally, a survey instrument probably > will not be happy with a timing receiver. > > Why all this nonsense? As far as I can tell, it goes back to how the very > early L1 / L2 survey boxes were designed back in the 1980’s and early 1990’s. > They made a basic decision to put a lot of gain at the antenna. Motorola came > along with their GPS modules later on. They made a *very* different decision > about how to distribute the gain. There are very good arguments on both sides > for why they did it this way. > The bottom line is still - you need to match things up … > > Bob > >> On Apr 1, 2018, at 2:36 AM, cfo wrote: >> >> On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:58:19 -0500, >> donandarline-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w >> wrote: >> >>> I found a supplier for high quality GPS antennas at a very >>> reasonable price. PCTEL GPSL1-TMG-SPI-40NCB. >> >> *** SNIP *** >> >> I had one of those on 25m cable, and it worked fine on a Tbolt , >> until i got an active antenna splitter that also had some gain. >> Then i had to replace it w. a 26dB version of same type, else the >> "Jackson Lite" was loosing sync. >> >> What i mean here, is that you can get too much gain too. >> >> Btw: Good price. >> >> CFO >> Denmark >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA
Just use a standard attenuator between a pair of bias T's with their dc ports connected together. Bruce > > On 02 April 2018 at 10:29 Azelio Boriani wrote: > > An unusual attenuator with a DC pass. > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 10:21 PM, David C. Partridge > > wrote: > > > > > > Or use a choke ring survey antenna and an attenuator :) > > > > Dave > > > > -Original Message- > > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of > > Bob kb8tq > > Sent: 01 April 2018 14:43 > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA > > > > Hi > > > > Indeed, it is *very* easy to put to much gain in front of a timing > > GNSS receiver. These beasts are trying to dig out a signal that you can’t > > even see with a spectrum analyzer. > > It’s way to far below the noise floor to detect that way. They > > optimize things pretty tightly to get that done (and to hit a price target > > ….). Put to much gain in front of them and they get unhappy. > > > > Making this even more crazy, the survey industry standard antenna > > *does* have a lot of gain. Survey receivers need way more gain in front of > > them than timing receivers. Put a survey antenna directly on a timing > > device and trouble will likely be the outcome. Equally, a survey instrument > > probably will not be happy with a timing receiver. > > > > Why all this nonsense? As far as I can tell, it goes back to how > > the very early L1 / L2 survey boxes were designed back in the 1980’s and > > early 1990’s. They made a basic decision to put a lot of gain at the > > antenna. Motorola came along with their GPS modules later on. They made a > > *very* different decision about how to distribute the gain. There are very > > good arguments on both sides for why they did it this way. > > The bottom line is still - you need to match things up … > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 1, 2018, at 2:36 AM, cfo wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:58:19 -0500, > > > donandarline-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I found a supplier for high quality GPS antennas at a > > > > very reasonable > > > > price. PCTEL GPSL1-TMG-SPI-40NCB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** SNIP *** > > > > > > I had one of those on 25m cable, and it worked fine on a > > > Tbolt , until > > > i got an active antenna splitter that also had some gain. > > > Then i had to replace it w. a 26dB version of same type, else > > > the > > > "Jackson Lite" was loosing sync. > > > > > > What i mean here, is that you can get too much gain too. > > > > > > Btw: Good price. > > > > > > CFO > > > Denmark > > > > > > ___ > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, > > > go to > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA
Hi They are indeed a bit unusual. Generally you do a DC block and bias tee ahead of the attenuator. For a “self contained” approach, a second block and bias tee pulls the DC of the GPSDO side of the attenuator. My preference has been to just run the bias tee with an external DC source. Bob > On Apr 1, 2018, at 6:29 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: > > An unusual attenuator with a DC pass. > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 10:21 PM, David C. Partridge > wrote: >> Or use a choke ring survey antenna and an attenuator :) >> >> Dave >> >> -Original Message- >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob kb8tq >> Sent: 01 April 2018 14:43 >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA >> >> Hi >> >> Indeed, it is *very* easy to put to much gain in front of a timing GNSS >> receiver. These beasts are trying to dig out a signal that you can’t even >> see with a spectrum analyzer. >> It’s way to far below the noise floor to detect that way. They optimize >> things pretty tightly to get that done (and to hit a price target ….). Put >> to much gain in front of them and they get unhappy. >> >> Making this even more crazy, the survey industry standard antenna *does* >> have a lot of gain. Survey receivers need way more gain in front of them >> than timing receivers. Put a survey antenna directly on a timing device and >> trouble will likely be the outcome. Equally, a survey instrument probably >> will not be happy with a timing receiver. >> >> Why all this nonsense? As far as I can tell, it goes back to how the very >> early L1 / L2 survey boxes were designed back in the 1980’s and early >> 1990’s. They made a basic decision to put a lot of gain at the antenna. >> Motorola came along with their GPS modules later on. They made a *very* >> different decision about how to distribute the gain. There are very good >> arguments on both sides for why they did it this way. >> The bottom line is still - you need to match things up … >> >> Bob >> >>> On Apr 1, 2018, at 2:36 AM, cfo wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:58:19 -0500, >>> donandarline-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w >>> wrote: >>> I found a supplier for high quality GPS antennas at a very reasonable price. PCTEL GPSL1-TMG-SPI-40NCB. >>> >>> *** SNIP *** >>> >>> I had one of those on 25m cable, and it worked fine on a Tbolt , until >>> i got an active antenna splitter that also had some gain. >>> Then i had to replace it w. a 26dB version of same type, else the >>> "Jackson Lite" was loosing sync. >>> >>> What i mean here, is that you can get too much gain too. >>> >>> Btw: Good price. >>> >>> CFO >>> Denmark >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Tom, Yes, that was my take on this as well. With easily available sub-meter position fixes, I believe that even more uses will be found for this technology. With the Broadcom chipsets going into phones, Google Maps will no longer tell you to take the highway ramp, when you are already on the highway :-) Just remember to turn off your phone and wear your tin foil hat, when you don't want "the man" knowing where you are :-) Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:53 PM, Tom Knox wrote: > Hi All; > > I think the real break through is using these different constellations and > their different frequencies and looking at carrier phase verses timing > elements. This should allow the removal of propagation delay. > > Cheers; > > Thomas Knox > act...@hotmail.com > > > > From: time-nuts on behalf of Magnus > Danielson > Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2018 2:40 PM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Cc: mag...@rubidium.se > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets > > Joe, > > I'm not sure I had much influence, but I at least try to advocate for it > to become a good market, so hopefully it will be affordable. It has > actually been affordable for quite some time, so going multifrequency > should be the next step and with that the benefits. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > On 04/01/2018 07:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > Magnus, > > > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this > year. > > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a > standalone > > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > > > Joe Gray > > W5JG > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson < > mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org > >> wrote: > > > >> Hi Joe, > >> > >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new > >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise > >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous > >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says > >> "centimeter > >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these > >> chipsets > >>> become available in consumer products. > >> > >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and > >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should > >> be some preparations for this now. > >> > >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. > >> > >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I > >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Magnus > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA
On 4/1/18 3:29 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: An unusual attenuator with a DC pass. A few feet of RG-174 (or any 0.1" diameter coax) would probably work. On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 10:21 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: Or use a choke ring survey antenna and an attenuator :) Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob kb8tq Sent: 01 April 2018 14:43 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA Hi Indeed, it is *very* easy to put to much gain in front of a timing GNSS receiver. These beasts are trying to dig out a signal that you can’t even see with a spectrum analyzer. It’s way to far below the noise floor to detect that way. They optimize things pretty tightly to get that done (and to hit a price target ….). Put to much gain in front of them and they get unhappy. Making this even more crazy, the survey industry standard antenna *does* have a lot of gain. Survey receivers need way more gain in front of them than timing receivers. Put a survey antenna directly on a timing device and trouble will likely be the outcome. Equally, a survey instrument probably will not be happy with a timing receiver. Why all this nonsense? As far as I can tell, it goes back to how the very early L1 / L2 survey boxes were designed back in the 1980’s and early 1990’s. They made a basic decision to put a lot of gain at the antenna. Motorola came along with their GPS modules later on. They made a *very* different decision about how to distribute the gain. There are very good arguments on both sides for why they did it this way. The bottom line is still - you need to match things up … Bob On Apr 1, 2018, at 2:36 AM, cfo wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:58:19 -0500, donandarline-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w wrote: I found a supplier for high quality GPS antennas at a very reasonable price. PCTEL GPSL1-TMG-SPI-40NCB. *** SNIP *** I had one of those on 25m cable, and it worked fine on a Tbolt , until i got an active antenna splitter that also had some gain. Then i had to replace it w. a 26dB version of same type, else the "Jackson Lite" was loosing sync. What i mean here, is that you can get too much gain too. Btw: Good price. CFO Denmark ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Bob, If it was a glass of good bourbon, I'd take you up on that offer :-) The Broadcom chipsets are touted as being specifically for phones. Whether we'll be able to buy stand alone modules, I don't know. The uBlox chipsets have in that past been widely available at rational prices. Hopefully the new "9" series will be, also. As for the ST Micro, I haven't a clue, but considering how their microcontrollers are so widely available from China, who knows what will happen. Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > I’d bet a warm glass of beer ( pick up only, no free delivery ) that you > will not see them in user level > modules ( = something you can fire up) at a rational price ( < $500) for > quite a while ( = years …). > The target market is integration in self driving / autonomous vehicles. If > you are GM or Toyota, > they will gladly support you. For the rest of us …. go to the back of the > line ….. That’s been the pattern > on this stuff like this for quite a while. > > Bob > > > On Apr 1, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > > > Magnus, > > > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this > year. > > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a > standalone > > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > > > Joe Gray > > W5JG > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson < > mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org > >> wrote: > > > >> Hi Joe, > >> > >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new > >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise > >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous > >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says > >> "centimeter > >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these > >> chipsets > >>> become available in consumer products. > >> > >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and > >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should > >> be some preparations for this now. > >> > >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. > >> > >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I > >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Magnus > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA
An unusual attenuator with a DC pass. On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 10:21 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: > Or use a choke ring survey antenna and an attenuator :) > > Dave > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob kb8tq > Sent: 01 April 2018 14:43 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA > > Hi > > Indeed, it is *very* easy to put to much gain in front of a timing GNSS > receiver. These beasts are trying to dig out a signal that you can’t even see > with a spectrum analyzer. > It’s way to far below the noise floor to detect that way. They optimize > things pretty tightly to get that done (and to hit a price target ….). Put to > much gain in front of them and they get unhappy. > > Making this even more crazy, the survey industry standard antenna *does* have > a lot of gain. Survey receivers need way more gain in front of them than > timing receivers. Put a survey antenna directly on a timing device and > trouble will likely be the outcome. Equally, a survey instrument probably > will not be happy with a timing receiver. > > Why all this nonsense? As far as I can tell, it goes back to how the very > early L1 / L2 survey boxes were designed back in the 1980’s and early 1990’s. > They made a basic decision to put a lot of gain at the antenna. Motorola came > along with their GPS modules later on. They made a *very* different decision > about how to distribute the gain. There are very good arguments on both sides > for why they did it this way. > The bottom line is still - you need to match things up … > > Bob > >> On Apr 1, 2018, at 2:36 AM, cfo wrote: >> >> On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:58:19 -0500, >> donandarline-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w >> wrote: >> >>> I found a supplier for high quality GPS antennas at a very reasonable >>> price. PCTEL GPSL1-TMG-SPI-40NCB. >> >> *** SNIP *** >> >> I had one of those on 25m cable, and it worked fine on a Tbolt , until >> i got an active antenna splitter that also had some gain. >> Then i had to replace it w. a 26dB version of same type, else the >> "Jackson Lite" was loosing sync. >> >> What i mean here, is that you can get too much gain too. >> >> Btw: Good price. >> >> CFO >> Denmark >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Hi I’d bet a warm glass of beer ( pick up only, no free delivery ) that you will not see them in user level modules ( = something you can fire up) at a rational price ( < $500) for quite a while ( = years …). The target market is integration in self driving / autonomous vehicles. If you are GM or Toyota, they will gladly support you. For the rest of us …. go to the back of the line ….. That’s been the pattern on this stuff like this for quite a while. Bob > On Apr 1, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > Magnus, > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year. > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson > wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says >> "centimeter >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these >> chipsets >>> become available in consumer products. >> >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should >> be some preparations for this now. >> >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. >> >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Hi All; I think the real break through is using these different constellations and their different frequencies and looking at carrier phase verses timing elements. This should allow the removal of propagation delay. Cheers; Thomas Knox act...@hotmail.com From: time-nuts on behalf of Magnus Danielson Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2018 2:40 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: mag...@rubidium.se Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets Joe, I'm not sure I had much influence, but I at least try to advocate for it to become a good market, so hopefully it will be affordable. It has actually been affordable for quite some time, so going multifrequency should be the next step and with that the benefits. Cheers, Magnus On 04/01/2018 07:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > Magnus, > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year. > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson > wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says >> "centimeter >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these >> chipsets >>> become available in consumer products. >> >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should >> be some preparations for this now. >> >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. >> >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Joe, I'm not sure I had much influence, but I at least try to advocate for it to become a good market, so hopefully it will be affordable. It has actually been affordable for quite some time, so going multifrequency should be the next step and with that the benefits. Cheers, Magnus On 04/01/2018 07:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > Magnus, > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year. > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson > wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says >> "centimeter >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these >> chipsets >>> become available in consumer products. >> >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should >> be some preparations for this now. >> >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. >> >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Magnus, When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year. The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > Hi Joe, > > On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new > > chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise > > positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous > > vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says > "centimeter > > level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these > chipsets > > become available in consumer products. > > I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and > multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should > be some preparations for this now. > > The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. > > Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I > would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) > > Cheers, > Magnus > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5061A and 5061B modules clear out!
Hi, I'm cleaning out a BUNCH of modules from HP 5061A/B. See listing on eBay below. More lots of other modules to follow in groups that will fit into flat rate boxes. If you have specific wants contact me off list! Cheers, Corby https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP5061A-5051B-A7-AC-amplifier-modules-eight-Freq uency-standard-Cesium-standard/323183182781 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA
Or use a choke ring survey antenna and an attenuator :) Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob kb8tq Sent: 01 April 2018 14:43 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA Hi Indeed, it is *very* easy to put to much gain in front of a timing GNSS receiver. These beasts are trying to dig out a signal that you can’t even see with a spectrum analyzer. It’s way to far below the noise floor to detect that way. They optimize things pretty tightly to get that done (and to hit a price target ….). Put to much gain in front of them and they get unhappy. Making this even more crazy, the survey industry standard antenna *does* have a lot of gain. Survey receivers need way more gain in front of them than timing receivers. Put a survey antenna directly on a timing device and trouble will likely be the outcome. Equally, a survey instrument probably will not be happy with a timing receiver. Why all this nonsense? As far as I can tell, it goes back to how the very early L1 / L2 survey boxes were designed back in the 1980’s and early 1990’s. They made a basic decision to put a lot of gain at the antenna. Motorola came along with their GPS modules later on. They made a *very* different decision about how to distribute the gain. There are very good arguments on both sides for why they did it this way. The bottom line is still - you need to match things up … Bob > On Apr 1, 2018, at 2:36 AM, cfo wrote: > > On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:58:19 -0500, > donandarline-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w > wrote: > >> I found a supplier for high quality GPS antennas at a very reasonable >> price. PCTEL GPSL1-TMG-SPI-40NCB. > > *** SNIP *** > > I had one of those on 25m cable, and it worked fine on a Tbolt , until > i got an active antenna splitter that also had some gain. > Then i had to replace it w. a 26dB version of same type, else the > "Jackson Lite" was loosing sync. > > What i mean here, is that you can get too much gain too. > > Btw: Good price. > > CFO > Denmark > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS ANTENNA
Hi Indeed, it is *very* easy to put to much gain in front of a timing GNSS receiver. These beasts are trying to dig out a signal that you can’t even see with a spectrum analyzer. It’s way to far below the noise floor to detect that way. They optimize things pretty tightly to get that done (and to hit a price target ….). Put to much gain in front of them and they get unhappy. Making this even more crazy, the survey industry standard antenna *does* have a lot of gain. Survey receivers need way more gain in front of them than timing receivers. Put a survey antenna directly on a timing device and trouble will likely be the outcome. Equally, a survey instrument probably will not be happy with a timing receiver. Why all this nonsense? As far as I can tell, it goes back to how the very early L1 / L2 survey boxes were designed back in the 1980’s and early 1990’s. They made a basic decision to put a lot of gain at the antenna. Motorola came along with their GPS modules later on. They made a *very* different decision about how to distribute the gain. There are very good arguments on both sides for why they did it this way. The bottom line is still - you need to match things up … Bob > On Apr 1, 2018, at 2:36 AM, cfo wrote: > > On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:58:19 -0500, donandarline-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w > wrote: > >> I found a supplier for high quality GPS antennas at a very reasonable >> price. PCTEL GPSL1-TMG-SPI-40NCB. > > *** SNIP *** > > I had one of those on 25m cable, and it worked fine on a Tbolt , until > i got an active antenna splitter that also had some gain. > Then i had to replace it w. a 26dB version of same type, else the > "Jackson Lite" was loosing sync. > > What i mean here, is that you can get too much gain too. > > Btw: Good price. > > CFO > Denmark > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather BST command line question
Hello, Thank you Mark, I had not put the zero in front of /GMT/BST and it obviously needed that as it's now working fine, many thanks for the great software! on 01/04/2018 08:51 you wrote: > Ooops, that should have been /b=2 to select the European time zone rule! > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. -- Best Regards, Chris Wilson. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
