Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets

2018-04-01 Thread Joseph Gray
Tom,

Yes, that was my take on this as well. With easily available sub-meter
position fixes, I believe that even more uses will be found for this
technology.

With the Broadcom chipsets going into phones, Google Maps will no longer
tell you to take the highway ramp, when you are already on the highway :-)

Just remember to turn off your phone and wear your tin foil hat, when you
don't want "the man" knowing where you are :-)

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:53 PM, Tom Knox <act...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All;
>
> I think the real break through is using these different constellations and
> their different frequencies and looking at carrier phase verses timing
> elements. This should allow the removal of propagation delay.
>
> Cheers;
>
> Thomas Knox
> act...@hotmail.com
>
>
> 
> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Magnus
> Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2018 2:40 PM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Cc: mag...@rubidium.se
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
>
> Joe,
>
> I'm not sure I had much influence, but I at least try to advocate for it
> to become a good market, so hopefully it will be affordable. It has
> actually been affordable for quite some time, so going multifrequency
> should be the next step and with that the benefits.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 04/01/2018 07:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote:
> > Magnus,
> >
> > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember
> > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this
> year.
> > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a
> standalone
> > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with.
> >
> > Joe Gray
> > W5JG
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson <
> mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Joe,
> >>
> >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote:
> >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new
> >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise
> >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous
> >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says
> >> "centimeter
> >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these
> >> chipsets
> >>> become available in consumer products.
> >>
> >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and
> >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should
> >> be some preparations for this now.
> >>
> >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision.
> >>
> >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I
> >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Magnus
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets

2018-04-01 Thread Joseph Gray
Bob,

If it was a glass of good bourbon, I'd take you up on that offer :-)

The Broadcom chipsets are touted as being specifically for phones. Whether
we'll be able to buy stand alone modules, I don't know. The uBlox chipsets
have in that past been widely available at rational prices. Hopefully the
new "9" series will be, also. As for the ST Micro, I haven't a clue, but
considering how their microcontrollers are so widely available from China,
who knows what will happen.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’d bet a warm glass of beer  ( pick up only, no free delivery ) that you
> will not see them in user level
> modules ( = something you can fire up)  at a rational price ( < $500)  for
> quite a while ( = years …).
> The target market is integration in self driving / autonomous vehicles. If
> you are GM or Toyota,
> they will gladly support you. For the rest of us …. go to the back of the
> line ….. That’s been the pattern
> on this stuff like this for quite a while.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Apr 1, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
> >
> > Magnus,
> >
> > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember
> > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this
> year.
> > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a
> standalone
> > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with.
> >
> > Joe Gray
> > W5JG
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson <
> mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Joe,
> >>
> >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote:
> >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new
> >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise
> >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous
> >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says
> >> "centimeter
> >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these
> >> chipsets
> >>> become available in consumer products.
> >>
> >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and
> >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should
> >> be some preparations for this now.
> >>
> >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision.
> >>
> >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I
> >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Magnus
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets

2018-04-01 Thread Joseph Gray
Magnus,

When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember
to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year.
The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone
module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org
> wrote:

> Hi Joe,
>
> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote:
> > I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new
> > chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise
> > positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous
> > vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says
> "centimeter
> > level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these
> chipsets
> > become available in consumer products.
>
> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and
> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should
> be some preparations for this now.
>
> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision.
>
> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I
> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
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[time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets

2018-03-31 Thread Joseph Gray
I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new
chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise
positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous
vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says "centimeter
level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these chipsets
become available in consumer products.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] TADD-1 question

2018-01-19 Thread Joseph Gray
I have a sig gen that uses a single BNC for input/output of the 10 MHz
reference. You have to set it for in or out using the interface. However,
if the sig gen thinks that the external reference is no longer there, it
automatically switches to using the internal reference, and outputing it on
the BNC.

My question is, will the TADD-1 be harmed if the sig gen is sending 10 MHz
into one of the TADD-1 outputs?

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] PBS, Tue evening, The Secret of Tuxedo Park

2018-01-16 Thread Joseph Gray
I watched the episode with only a few minor buffering issues. Considering
that I couldn't watch it on live TV, and the web video was free, I didn't
find any reason to complain.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 10:21 PM, djl <d...@montana.com> wrote:

> pbs video player sucks big ones...
>
> On 2018-01-16 18:47, Joseph Gray wrote:
>
>> If you want to watch this episode online, go here:
>> http://video.unctv.org/video/3008204310
>>
>> This is the UNC Public TV web site.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Bill Tracey <b...@ewjt.com> wrote:
>>
>> To record OTA television I use an HDHomeRun :
>>> https://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/
>>>
>>> I'll grab tonight's run of The Secret of Tuxedo Park
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> At 09:04 AM 1/16/2018, you wrote:
>>>
>>> I can't stress enough how important Loomis was to the history of precise
>>>> timekeeping in early radio, telephone, pendulum clock, quartz oscillator
>>>> era. And for those of us who still have Loran-C receivers can thank him
>>>> (Loomis Radio Navigation -> LRN -> Loran).
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> If someone knows how to record any time/clock/navigation parts of PBS
>>>> show for non-US viewers let me know, off-list.
>>>>
>>>> /tvb
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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>
> --
> Dr. Don Latham
> PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
> VOX: 406-626-4304
>
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Re: [time-nuts] PBS, Tue evening, The Secret of Tuxedo Park

2018-01-16 Thread Joseph Gray
If you want to watch this episode online, go here:
http://video.unctv.org/video/3008204310

This is the UNC Public TV web site.

Joe Gray
W5JG



On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Bill Tracey  wrote:

> To record OTA television I use an HDHomeRun :
> https://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/
>
> I'll grab tonight's run of The Secret of Tuxedo Park
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>
> At 09:04 AM 1/16/2018, you wrote:
>
>> I can't stress enough how important Loomis was to the history of precise
>> timekeeping in early radio, telephone, pendulum clock, quartz oscillator
>> era. And for those of us who still have Loran-C receivers can thank him
>> (Loomis Radio Navigation -> LRN -> Loran).
>> .
>>
>> If someone knows how to record any time/clock/navigation parts of PBS
>> show for non-US viewers let me know, off-list.
>>
>> /tvb
>>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] What to do with a 5061A/5061B with dead NiCds

2017-02-05 Thread Joseph Gray
I don't know which option would be best, but rebuilding the pack may not be
expensive. A rebuilt NiCad pack for a Flukemeter only cost me $12. Fluke
charges $120 for a new one.


On Feb 5, 2017 4:27 PM, "Skip Withrow"  wrote:

> Hello time-nuts,
>
> I have 5061A and 5061B units with the battery option and dead battery
> packs.  My question is what makes the most sense when refurbing these
> units?
>
> 1.  Yank the old battery out and just leave it that way.  Running the unit
> on a UPS would preserve the functionality.
>
> 2. Replace the pack with a rebuilt NiCd pack.  I'm sure Batteries Plus
> would be happy to do it, but sounds expensive.
>
> 3. Replace the pack with a NiMH pack, and really crank down the float
> current of the 5061.
>
> 4. Replace the pack with Li-ion battery.  Would be a much smaller battery,
> but the charging circuit would have to be pitched.  Building in a Li-ion
> charge controller sounds like it could be a project (which I don't
> necessarily want).
>
> 5. Yank the old battery pack and run the 5061 on two 12V batteries with an
> appropriate power supply/charger (basically a version of #1).
>
> Any thoughts on these or other options would be appreciated.  Thanks in
> advance.
>
> Regards,
> Skip Withrow
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Re: [time-nuts] FS: HP 10811A

2017-01-31 Thread Joseph Gray
OCXO is sold.

Joe

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:33 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
> Working pull from a piece of HP test gear. Includes a new gold-plated
> edge-card socket that mates with the OCXO. $60 with free US shipping.
>
> Joe Gray
> W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: HP 10811A

2017-01-30 Thread Joseph Gray
Working pull from a piece of HP test gear. Includes a new gold-plated
edge-card socket that mates with the OCXO. $60 with free US shipping.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Ublox M8N - have I a XO or TCXO ?

2016-12-21 Thread Joseph Gray
Some time ago, I bought two different modules from Reyax on ebay. One
module had a ublox M8N. Recently, I did some reading on several drone
forums about fake ublox modules from China. It seems that modules from
quite a few vendors are not genuine. From the information presented
about identifying the fakes, I am fairly confident that the modules I
bought from Reyax are genuine.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A

2016-12-01 Thread Joseph Gray
Someone bought it with the Z3801A.

Joe


On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Eric Scace <e...@scace.org> wrote:
> Hi Joe —
>
>I’ll take the HP-58516A splitter, if you’re willing to see it separately.
>
> — Eric K3NA
>
>> On 2016 Nov 27, at 14:15 , Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm selling my remaining Z3801A. Months ago, I replaced the original
>> GPS module with a more sensitive Oncore VP. At that time, I also
>> replaced several suspect capacitors on the DC-DC converter board.
>> Everything has been 100% since. The RS-232 mod was done long ago.
>>
>> A serial cable and a 24 VDC power supply is included. I will also
>> include a spare Oncore VP module for free. Asking $300 plus
>> shipping/insurance.
>>
>> I also have an HP 58516A 4-way GPS splitter that I will include for $50 more.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
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[time-nuts] Net4501 case

2016-11-30 Thread Joseph Gray
Does anyone have a spare case for a Soekris Net4501? It looks like
Soekris no longer sells them.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: HP Z3801A

2016-11-27 Thread Joseph Gray
I'm selling my remaining Z3801A. Months ago, I replaced the original
GPS module with a more sensitive Oncore VP. At that time, I also
replaced several suspect capacitors on the DC-DC converter board.
Everything has been 100% since. The RS-232 mod was done long ago.

A serial cable and a 24 VDC power supply is included. I will also
include a spare Oncore VP module for free. Asking $300 plus
shipping/insurance.

I also have an HP 58516A 4-way GPS splitter that I will include for $50 more.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] TCXO drift - related to TVB's posting

2016-11-12 Thread Joseph Gray
I periodically check that.

On Nov 12, 2016 5:43 PM, "Adrian Godwin" <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What if your shop reference were drifting up ?
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
>
> > TCXO, not OCXO, but related. Sorry, but I have no graphs.
> >
> > I work for a municipal radio shop. We service radios that span 20
> > years (through acquisitions, it was GE, Ericsson, Com-Net, M/A-COM,
> > Tyco, now Harris). There are several different model handhelds and
> > mobiles, with different designs and TCXO's. Some are adjusted manualy,
> > most via software. I have found that every single TCXO in the various
> > model radios drift downward in frequency over time.
> >
> > One interesting case was a set of radios that sat on the shelf, unused
> > for several years. They were issued to some custodians about a year
> > ago. I checked all of them on the service monitor beforehand and they
> > were well within spec. All of these radios came back to the shop
> > recently. They were 1-3 KHz low in transmit frequency. That is an
> > unusual amount of drift in one year. Perhaps it has something to do
> > with how long they sat on the shelf.
> >
> > I don't have enough history on our newest radios, so I don't know if
> > this downward trend will hold true for them.
> >
> > Joe Gray
> > W5JG
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com>
> wrote:
> > > There were postings recently about OCXO ageing, or drift rates.
> > >
> > > I've been testing a batch of TBolts for a couple of months and it
> > provides an interesting set of data from which to make visual answers to
> > recent questions. Here are three plots.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) attached plot: TBolt-10day-fit0-e09.gif (
> > http://leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/TBolt-10day-fit0-e09.gif )
> > >
> > > A bunch of oscillators are measured with a 20-channel system. Each
> > frequency plot is a free-running TBolt (no GPS, no disciplining). The
> > X-scale is 10 days and the Y-scale is 1 ppb, or 1e-9 per Y-division. What
> > you see at this scale is that all the OCXO are quite stable. Also, some
> of
> > them show drift.
> > >
> > > For example, the OCXO frequency in channel 14 changes by 2e-9 in 10
> days
> > for a drift rate of 2e-10/day. It looks large in this plot but its well
> > under the typical spec, such as 5e-10/day for a 10811A. We see a variety
> of
> > drift rates, including some that appear to be zero: flat line. At this
> > scale, CH13, for example, seems to have no drift.
> > >
> > > But the drift, when present, appears quite linear. So there are two
> > things to do. Zoom in and zoom out.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) attached plot: TBolt-10day-fit0-e10.gif (
> > http://leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/TBolt-10day-fit0-e10.gif )
> > >
> > > Here we zoom in by changing the Y-scale to 1e-10 per division. The
> > X-scale is still 10 days. Now we can see the drift much better. Also at
> > this level we can see instability of each OCXO (or the lab environment).
> At
> > this scale, channels CH10 and CH14 are "off the chart". An OCXO like the
> > one in CH01 climbs by 2e-10 over 10 days for a drift rate of 2e-11/day.
> > This is 25x better than the 10811A spec. CH13, mentioned above, is not
> zero
> > drift after all, but its drift rate is even lower, close to 1e-11/day.
> > >
> > > For some oscillators the wiggles in the data (frequency instability)
> are
> > large enough that the drift rate is not clearly measurable.
> > >
> > > The 10-day plots suggests you would not want to try to measure drift
> > rate based on just one day of data.
> > >
> > > The plots also suggest that drift rate is not a hard constant. Look at
> > any of the 20 10-day plots. Your eye will tell you that the daily drift
> > rate can change significantly from day to day to day.
> > >
> > > The plots show that an OCXO doesn't necessarily follow strict rules. In
> > a sense they each have their own personality. So one needs to be very
> > careful about algorithms that assume any sort of constant or consistent
> > behavior.
> > >
> > >
> > > 3) attached plot: TBolt-100day-fit0-e08.gif (
> > http://leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/TBolt-100day-fit0-e08.gif )
> > >
> > > Here we look at 100 days of data instead of just 10 days. To fit, the
> > Y-scale is now 1e-8 per division. Once a mo

[time-nuts] TCXO drift - related to TVB's posting

2016-11-12 Thread Joseph Gray
TCXO, not OCXO, but related. Sorry, but I have no graphs.

I work for a municipal radio shop. We service radios that span 20
years (through acquisitions, it was GE, Ericsson, Com-Net, M/A-COM,
Tyco, now Harris). There are several different model handhelds and
mobiles, with different designs and TCXO's. Some are adjusted manualy,
most via software. I have found that every single TCXO in the various
model radios drift downward in frequency over time.

One interesting case was a set of radios that sat on the shelf, unused
for several years. They were issued to some custodians about a year
ago. I checked all of them on the service monitor beforehand and they
were well within spec. All of these radios came back to the shop
recently. They were 1-3 KHz low in transmit frequency. That is an
unusual amount of drift in one year. Perhaps it has something to do
with how long they sat on the shelf.

I don't have enough history on our newest radios, so I don't know if
this downward trend will hold true for them.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> There were postings recently about OCXO ageing, or drift rates.
>
> I've been testing a batch of TBolts for a couple of months and it provides an 
> interesting set of data from which to make visual answers to recent 
> questions. Here are three plots.
>
>
> 1) attached plot: TBolt-10day-fit0-e09.gif ( 
> http://leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/TBolt-10day-fit0-e09.gif )
>
> A bunch of oscillators are measured with a 20-channel system. Each frequency 
> plot is a free-running TBolt (no GPS, no disciplining). The X-scale is 10 
> days and the Y-scale is 1 ppb, or 1e-9 per Y-division. What you see at this 
> scale is that all the OCXO are quite stable. Also, some of them show drift.
>
> For example, the OCXO frequency in channel 14 changes by 2e-9 in 10 days for 
> a drift rate of 2e-10/day. It looks large in this plot but its well under the 
> typical spec, such as 5e-10/day for a 10811A. We see a variety of drift 
> rates, including some that appear to be zero: flat line. At this scale, CH13, 
> for example, seems to have no drift.
>
> But the drift, when present, appears quite linear. So there are two things to 
> do. Zoom in and zoom out.
>
>
> 2) attached plot: TBolt-10day-fit0-e10.gif ( 
> http://leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/TBolt-10day-fit0-e10.gif )
>
> Here we zoom in by changing the Y-scale to 1e-10 per division. The X-scale is 
> still 10 days. Now we can see the drift much better. Also at this level we 
> can see instability of each OCXO (or the lab environment). At this scale, 
> channels CH10 and CH14 are "off the chart". An OCXO like the one in CH01 
> climbs by 2e-10 over 10 days for a drift rate of 2e-11/day. This is 25x 
> better than the 10811A spec. CH13, mentioned above, is not zero drift after 
> all, but its drift rate is even lower, close to 1e-11/day.
>
> For some oscillators the wiggles in the data (frequency instability) are 
> large enough that the drift rate is not clearly measurable.
>
> The 10-day plots suggests you would not want to try to measure drift rate 
> based on just one day of data.
>
> The plots also suggest that drift rate is not a hard constant. Look at any of 
> the 20 10-day plots. Your eye will tell you that the daily drift rate can 
> change significantly from day to day to day.
>
> The plots show that an OCXO doesn't necessarily follow strict rules. In a 
> sense they each have their own personality. So one needs to be very careful 
> about algorithms that assume any sort of constant or consistent behavior.
>
>
> 3) attached plot: TBolt-100day-fit0-e08.gif ( 
> http://leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/TBolt-100day-fit0-e08.gif )
>
> Here we look at 100 days of data instead of just 10 days. To fit, the Y-scale 
> is now 1e-8 per division. Once a month I created a temporary thermal event in 
> the lab (the little "speed bumps") which we will ignore for now.
>
> At this long-term scale, OCXO in CH09 has textbook logarithmic drift. Also 
> CH14 and CH16. In fact over 100 days most of them are logarithmic but the 
> coefficients vary considerably so it's hard to see this at a common scale. 
> Note also the logarithmic curve is vastly more apparent in the first few days 
> or weeks of operation, but I don't have that data.
>
> In general, any exponential or log or parabolic or circular curve looks 
> linear if you're looking close enough. A straight highway may look linear but 
> the equator is circular. So most OCXO drift (age) with a logarithmic curve 
> and this is visible over long enough measurements. But for shorter time spans 
> it will appear linear. Or, more likely, internal and external stability 
> issues will dominate and this spoils any linear vs. log discussion.
>
> So is it linear or log? The answer is it depends. Now I sound like Bob ;-)
>
> /tvb
>
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[time-nuts] Unexpected problem found

2016-10-28 Thread Joseph Gray
This really is Time Nuts related. Keep reading.

I recently bought some surplus Motorola UHF mobiles. They came with
the previous frequencies blanked and only channel one programmed with
460.000 MHz.

I put all of them on the bench to do a quick test to see if they
transmitted and received. Upon power on, every one was receiving a
strong carrier on the programmed frequency of 460 MHz. Firing up the
service monitor with a small whip antenna, I found a -70 dBm carrier,
right on 460 MHz.

Taking a handheld scanner around the house and outside, it seemed that
the problem was in my house, but I couldn't localize it with the
scanner. I started turning off circuit breakers until the carrier went
away. Then I went around, unplugging things individually. You won't
believe what the culprit was.

I have had some 10 MHz, Micro Crystal OCXO's (DIP 14) aging for quite
a while, intending to use them in a few projects eventually. Yep, it
was the OCXO's. I am surprised that the OXCO's would be putting out a
carrier at 460 MHz, and such a strong one.

This has been going on for quite a while. If I hadn't had these
Motorola radios that just happened to be programmed for 460 MHz, who
knows if or when I would have noticed this.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Moving GPSDO

2016-10-17 Thread Joseph Gray
Bill,

My question was more generally about any GPSDO, but it's good to know
about the Motorola/Lucent.

What about this scenario - the GPSDO has a fixed position on initial
powerup, but then it is moved periodically or even continuously,
without updating the GPS coordinates. The distance from the original
coordinates could be anywhere from close by, to across the state.
Periodically, a new survey could be run to keep things from getting
too far out in left field.

At some point, I'll have to do some field testing, but I wanted to get
the list wisdom first.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.i...@pobox.com> wrote:
> The Motorola receivers in Lucent gear won't output a time signal if they
> don't have an initial survey.
>
> I make this assertion because the RFTG I had would not lock. The
> Motorola bag of bits decodes to say there's no position fix because
> enough satellites have not been acquired. Too bad I lived in a valley.
>
> Let us know how this turns out, starting from an initial survey.
>
> Bill Hawkins
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph Gray
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 11:20 PM
>
> I'm curious to know how accurately a GPSDO will keep its 10 MHz output
> while moving. No initial survey to set a position would be done. I don't
> care about the UTC time.
>
> Joe Gray
> W5JG
>
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[time-nuts] Moving GPSDO

2016-10-16 Thread Joseph Gray
I'm curious to know how accurately a GPSDO will keep its 10 MHz output
while moving. No initial survey to set a position would be done. I
don't care about the UTC time.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: Garmin 18x LVC GPS

2016-10-08 Thread Joseph Gray
NIB with docs. $50 plus shipping.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] FS: PICTIC II

2016-10-03 Thread Joseph Gray
The kits are sold.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: PICTIC II

2016-10-02 Thread Joseph Gray
More house cleaning.

I have two PCB and all the parts (from Mouser) to build two PICTIC II
units. Make me an offer.

Joe Gray
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Re: [time-nuts] Schematic needed

2016-10-02 Thread Joseph Gray
Thanks to two list members, I got what I needed.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] Schematic needed

2016-10-02 Thread Joseph Gray
Can someone send me the schematic for this:

https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2012-January/062616.html

I looked through the list archives but didn't find the schematic
posted anywhere.


Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: Starbox

2016-10-01 Thread Joseph Gray
AllStar DGPS base station. Uses a 10 MHz internal reference. I have
lots of docs that I downloaded some time ago. Make me an offer.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jc4t1959l3bpf2v/Starbox.jpg?dl=01

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: HP 10811A

2016-09-28 Thread Joseph Gray
Has hole for coarse frequency adjust on the top. Edgecard connector
and two mounting studs are on the bottom. I don't remember which piece
of HP test equipment this came out of. Probably one of the Universal
Counters. $100 OBO, plus shipping/insurance.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: FE-5680A, 2 each

2016-09-28 Thread Joseph Gray
Info here:

http://www.ko4bb.com/doku2015/doku.php?id=precision_timing:fe5680a_faq

These are the fixed 10 MHz variety. Everything hooks up to the DE-9
connector. $100 each OBO, plus shipping/insurance.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: Prologix GPIB

2016-09-26 Thread Joseph Gray
One like new Prologix GPIB-USB controller $100 plus shipping/insurance.

One like new Prologix GPIB-ETHERNET controller $150 plus shipping/insurance.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: Lucent GPSDO

2016-09-26 Thread Joseph Gray
The new-in-box Lucent/Agilent  REF-0/REF-1 units that were selling on
ebay last year. I have been running this GPSDO ever since I bought it.
Includes a Meanwell 24 VDC power supply. I will also include a spare
REF-0 unit.

$200 OBO plus shipping/insurance.

More info: http://www.prc68.com/I/KS-24361.html

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: Spectracom 8140 frequency distribution amps

2016-09-20 Thread Joseph Gray
More downsizing.

One unit works 100% (I have been using it for years). It includes the
5 MHz option board, which I have disabled, for 10 MHz use. I have also
disabled the DC voltage on the four outputs, as I wasn't using the
external Taps. These functions can be very easily restored if you need
them. The second unit partially works. I haven't taken the time to see
what the problem is.

$150 OBO for both, plus shipping/insurance. Somewhere I have the PDF
manual with schematics.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: SR620

2016-09-15 Thread Joseph Gray
I am scaling back on my Time Nuttery. $1200 OBO, plus shipping & insurance.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] FS: Z3801A

2016-09-10 Thread Joseph Gray
Fully functional (in use now). Has been upgraded to an Oncore VP GPS
module (more sensitive than the original). I replaced several caps on
the DC-DC board with low-ESR parts (it wasn't necessary, but I didn't
like the look of some of them). Includes DC power supply, but no
antenna. $300 OBO. Shipping extra. Reply offline.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS position

2016-05-02 Thread Joseph Gray
Nick,

Comparing the coordinates from the different units, I'm seeing about
an 8 ft spread in latitude and about 3 ft in longitude. The elevation
is much worse - about a 30 m spread. All units are on the same antenna
and splitter.

I used this calculator:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/degreelenllavcalc.html

These numbers are from self surveys at different times. I will soon be
doing a major overhaul of the shelf that holds that equipment. When I
do, I'll have all units start a survey at the same time to see how
much of a difference it makes. I have three different model GPSDO's,
although all of them are HP varients (even the Lucent).

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts
<time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> I haven’t tried, but if you take two GPS receivers of different manufacturers 
> and feed them the same antenna feed… to what sort of tolerance can you expect 
> their solutions to coincide?
>
> I mean, obviously they’re *supposed* to show the same location, but I can 
> imagine that the math can come up with inexact solutions that may differ 
> systematically (obviously at low resolution) between different manufacturers.
>
> Or are those errors swamped by other factors that are not receiver specific?
>
>> On May 2, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, no Thunderbolts. TVB emailed me to ask if I had one, to make
>> the same suggestion.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> You could try Lady Heather's precision 48 hour survey.  It basically does a 
>>> weighted average of median filtered fixes  over 1 hour time intervals.  The 
>>> median filtering automatically throws outliers out of the data.
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS position

2016-05-02 Thread Joseph Gray
Sorry, no Thunderbolts. TVB emailed me to ask if I had one, to make
the same suggestion.

Joe Gray
W5JG

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Mark Sims  wrote:
> You could try Lady Heather's precision 48 hour survey.  It basically does a 
> weighted average of median filtered fixes  over 1 hour time intervals.  The 
> median filtering automatically throws outliers out of the data.
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS position

2016-05-02 Thread Joseph Gray
On the topic of benchmarks, I found this official site earlier this morning.

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/CORS-Proxy/NGSDataExplorer/

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Wes  wrote:
> Nothing to do with time but...
>
> Technically speaking, in surveying a bench mark is a vertical control point.
> In playing with Geocaching I've located bench marks that were placed in the
> 1930's and never found again (until I did).  There were often a hundred feet
> or more from where the description had them.  (Great fun BTW)
>
> See: https://www.geocaching.com/mark/
>
>
> On 5/2/2016 9:13 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>>
>> A man with a GPS knows where he is.  A man with two GPS' not not sure.
>>
>> I've always wanted to walk my self-survey GPS over to a brass USGS
>> benchmark and see it the GPS matches to benchmark location.  OK, I've done
>> this with a hand held GPS and gotten readings within about 10 meters.
>>
>> But before spending a lot of time removing the lat 10cm of error I'd do a
>> test at the nearest BM that is not in the middle of a street.
>>
>> What has stopped me from doing this is that a few years ago I had to have
>> my lot lines surveyed.  They got to better then 1/10 of a foot at each
>> corner and shot  some brass markers into the concrete.Google can see
>> my
>> house's roof ridge lines and the concrete so I can work out the exact
>> location of the roof mount antenna to within maybe 18 inches.  It seems to
>> agree with the survey as long as everyone uses WGS84.
>>
>>
>
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[time-nuts] Crazy PPS

2016-05-02 Thread Joseph Gray
After replacing the GPS module in Z3801A #2, I fired it up and let it
run. For over an hour, things looked OK, then the PPS TI/s rose
dramatically. Later, it started back down, Other than a high HUP,
everything else looked good. What would cause this to happen?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Crazy%20PPS.png


Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] GPS position

2016-05-02 Thread Joseph Gray
Now that I have three (maybe four) working GPSDO's, I'd like to set
the GPS coordinates the same on all of them. The survey that each one
does produces very similar coordinates, but not exactly the same.

The Z3801A's have VP's, the Lucent has a UT+. I don't know what is in
the 58540A, as the manual doesn't say and the :DIAG:IDEN:GPS? command
isn't supported.

Would using a modern GPS, like a uBlox, and averaging for quite a
while produce acceptable coordinates to manually enter into all of the
GPSDO's? Of course the uBlox would be on the same splitter and antenna
as the other units during the averaging.


Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] Original Oncores for free

2016-05-01 Thread Joseph Gray
Does anyone want two non-working 6-channel Oncores that I pulled from
Z3801A's? They may be repairable, but now that I have working VP's and
spares, I don't want to take the time to fool with them.

Just thought I'd ask before tossing them in the recycle bin.


Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A recovering

2016-05-01 Thread Joseph Gray
After about three hours:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Z3801A%203hr.png

Ignore the graph discontinuity at the beginning. I had to power cycle
to change to UTC.


Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 1:30 AM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
> In past discussions about replacing a 6-channel Oncore in a Z3801A
> with an 8-channel VP Oncore, some claimed that the VP had to first be
> put into 6-channel mode, others indicated this was not necessary.
> Earlier tonight, I put a VP (still in 8-channel mode) into my
> malfunctioning Z3801A. Monitoring with Z38xx, I see no signs that this
> is a problem. Even the logs look clean.
>
> In reading the VP documentation, I saw that there were several
> 6-channel commands, along with similar 8-channel commands. That is why
> I thought I'd try using the VP without setting it to 6-channel mode.
> It was an experiment that seems to have succeeded.
>
> I don't want to jinx things, but so far, my formerly flaky Z3801A is
> working normally, after replacing the GPS module. The self survey
> finished in two hours (about 25 minutes ago). The EFC and PPS TI/s
> graphs are no longer going wild.
>
> I'm going to monitor this for quite a while before I call it fixed.
> Then it's on to repairing the Z3801A that I traded for.
>
> In addition to replacing the GPS module, I also replaced three caps on
> the power supply board. On initial inspection, C108 and C110 had a
> faint white ring around them, on the PCB, as though they had out
> gassed. There was also some corrosion on pin TP104, which sits between
> C108 and C110. The caps checked fine with my LCR meter, but I thought
> I'd replace them while I had things apart. I also replaced C111, which
> is nearby. When I removed the caps, there was no corrosion on the PCB.
>
> When I inspected the other Z3801A which is awaiting repair, I saw the
> same faint white rings around C108 and C110. There was no corrosion on
> TP104, however. I will replace those caps as well, when I get to it.
>
>
> Joe Gray
> W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A recovering

2016-05-01 Thread Joseph Gray
In past discussions about replacing a 6-channel Oncore in a Z3801A
with an 8-channel VP Oncore, some claimed that the VP had to first be
put into 6-channel mode, others indicated this was not necessary.
Earlier tonight, I put a VP (still in 8-channel mode) into my
malfunctioning Z3801A. Monitoring with Z38xx, I see no signs that this
is a problem. Even the logs look clean.

In reading the VP documentation, I saw that there were several
6-channel commands, along with similar 8-channel commands. That is why
I thought I'd try using the VP without setting it to 6-channel mode.
It was an experiment that seems to have succeeded.

I don't want to jinx things, but so far, my formerly flaky Z3801A is
working normally, after replacing the GPS module. The self survey
finished in two hours (about 25 minutes ago). The EFC and PPS TI/s
graphs are no longer going wild.

I'm going to monitor this for quite a while before I call it fixed.
Then it's on to repairing the Z3801A that I traded for.

In addition to replacing the GPS module, I also replaced three caps on
the power supply board. On initial inspection, C108 and C110 had a
faint white ring around them, on the PCB, as though they had out
gassed. There was also some corrosion on pin TP104, which sits between
C108 and C110. The caps checked fine with my LCR meter, but I thought
I'd replace them while I had things apart. I also replaced C111, which
is nearby. When I removed the caps, there was no corrosion on the PCB.

When I inspected the other Z3801A which is awaiting repair, I saw the
same faint white rings around C108 and C110. There was no corrosion on
TP104, however. I will replace those caps as well, when I get to it.


Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58540A

2016-04-28 Thread Joseph Gray
I just thought I'd try the Z38XX program, to see what it shows. Well,
none of the graphic windows, nor the logging windows show anything at
all. I used the Manual Command Entry to test each of the query
strings. At this point, I didn't want to try commands that changed
things. Below are the commands that worked. Many SCPI commands are not
supported. You can't even change the serial baud rate, from what I can
tell.

Unless someone already has a program for monitoring this unit, I'll
have to write something that displays what information is reported,
like number of sattelites. After I grab some dinner, I'm going to read
the manual I downloaded.

The unit did seem to lock fairly quickly. It does report the correct
time, date and my position. The number of satellites tracked was the
same as the Lucent, which also has an 8-sat GPS.

*IDN?
:PTIME:LEAP:ACC?
:PTIME:UTC?
:PTIME:TIME?
:PTIME:DATE?
:PTIME:TZONE?
:PTIME:TCODE?
:GPS:REF:ADEL?
:GPS:POS:ACTUAL?
:GPS:POS:SURV:STAT:POW?
:GPS:POS?
:GPS:POS:SURV:STATE?
:GPS:SAT:TRAC?
:GPS:SAT:TRAC:EMAN?
:GPS:SAT:TRAC:IGN?
:GPS:SAT:TRAC:INCL?
:GPS:SAT:TRAC:COUNT?
:GPS:SAT:VIS:PRED?
:SYNC:FFOM?
:SYNC:STAT?
:SYST:ERR? - Reports "Undefined header"
:SYST:COMM:SER:ECHO ON
:SYST:COMM:SER:ECHO OFF


Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] HP 58540A

2016-04-28 Thread Joseph Gray
I just bought one of the above. Of course, before powering it on, I
had to take the cover off to see what was inside. The OCXO is a Piezo
2900082-114, 10 MHz. It has a S/N of 1 and a date code of 9751. A
search brought up several varieties of 2900082, but nothing on the
-114 version. Can anyone tell me anything about this particular OCXO?

Now, to power this on and see what it does. According to the info at
the Real Ham Radio site, it doesn't support all the SCPI commands, in
particular, no STATUS.


Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A recovering

2016-04-26 Thread Joseph Gray
Art,

Thanks for the link. Very useful information. I also read the 'VP
Service note" posted there. Is that note also referring to the
oscillator, or some other component that needs periodic recalibration.
In any case, it seems that they are recommending that we power down
our GPSDO units every few months. Not something I'd like to do,
considering it would take a while to stabilize again.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Art Sepin  wrote:
> Joe,
>
> There is a "VP Oncore Startup" note here that's worth a try:
>
> http://www.synergy-gps.com/index.php?option=com_content=view=42=89
>
> Please note that if the above link expands to more than one line after it 
> leaves our server it is due to our use of MS SafeLinks app in Outlook. If the 
> link is not active, just go to:
> Synergy-gps.com\Tech Support\ Shop Talk and scroll down to the start-up note.
>
> Art Sepin
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A recovering

2016-04-26 Thread Joseph Gray
Now that I finally have some replacement Oncore VP modules, I've been
able to do some tests and comparisons. Using WinOncore 12, I tested
the VP's that I got from Pete. Then I compared the old module from the
Z3801A. The old module seems to be deaf. It reports that it sees
plenty of satellites, but didn't lock onto any when left running
overnight.

Either tonight or tomorrow night, I'm going to put one of the tested
VP modules into the Z3801A and see how things go. I will also be
replacing a few caps that tested good, but looked suspicious. There
were signs of outgassing on the power supply board.

While waiting for Pete to make the VP modules available, I bought two
UT+ modules from ebay. After reading various documentation, I found
out that you can't use a UT+ in a Z3801A. It's a shame, because the
UT+ seems much more sensitive and locks much quicker than the VP
modules. I may be able to use the UT+ modules elsewhere.


Joe Gray
W5JG


On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:21 AM, John Green <wpxs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe, I'd be interested in knowing what you find out. My Z3801 is acting a
> lot like yours. It is currently locked, but.
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:15 AM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> I power cycled it about 20 days ago, which did no good. That is the
>> 496 hours holdover time. This time, I did just the survey once
>> command. I'll try your suggestion before attacking the hardware. I'm
>> currently using Z38xx.exe.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Artek Manuals <manu...@artekmanuals.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Joe
>> >
>> > I am confused by the fact that it shows the unit has been in HOLDOVER for
>> > 496 hours if you did a fresh survey
>> >
>> > Did you do a SYSTEM:PRESET: and GPS:POS:SURVEY:ONCE commands to initiate
>> the
>> > new survey or just the survey command or  What software are you
>> running?
>> >
>> > I would power the unit down and let it sit for 24 hours and then do the
>> two
>> > commands above.
>> >
>> > What software are you running?
>> >
>> > Dave
>> > NR1DX
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 3/16/2016 7:38 PM, Joseph Gray wrote:
>> >>
>> >> As I mentioned a while back, my trusty Z3801A, which has worked well
>> >> for several years, went into holdover some time ago and stayed there.
>> >> Until recently, I haven't had time to look into this. About 20 days
>> >> ago, I did power cycle it to see if that made a difference. It did
>> >> not.
>> >>
>> >> In the middle of the night, last night (couldn't sleep), I decided to
>> >> see what initiating a new survey would do. Since the unit doesn't lock
>> >> to as many satellites as my Lucent with the newer Oncore, it took
>> >> quite a while for the survey to finish.
>> >>
>> >> I just got home from work and this is what I am seeing:
>> >>
>> >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Z3801A.png
>> >>
>> >> The good news is that the unit no longer telling me the PPS is
>> >> invalid. It looks like it will be another long while before it comes
>> >> out of Recovery (assuming the PPS stays locked).
>> >>
>> >> I'm not the best at interpreting these graphs. At this point, should I
>> >> be concerned abouth the spikey nature of the EFC graph, or will things
>> >> calm down eventually? I assume that the PPS graph won't show until
>> >> Recovery is done?
>> >>
>> >> If this unit loses PPS lock again, or otherwise acts up, then I would
>> >> assume it is a hardware problem, and I'll have to put it on the bench.
>> >>
>> >> Joe Gray
>> >> W5JG
>> >> ___
>> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dave
>> > manu...@artekmanuals.com
>> > www.ArtekManuals.com
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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[time-nuts] Oncore battery

2016-04-24 Thread Joseph Gray
Can anyone recommend a rechargeable lithium coin cell that is a direct
replacement for the ones that come on some Oncore receivers? Something
I can order from Mouser or Digikey, if possible.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Difference between Oncore models

2016-03-20 Thread Joseph Gray
Thanks to all for the comments. I recently traded for another Z3801A
that I was told didn't work. I don't know what is wrong with it, as I
haven't had time to put it on the bench yet. I understand that the
OCXO is putting out a decent 10 MHz, so perhaps it also has a bad
Oncore.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Artek Manuals <manu...@artekmanuals.com> wrote:
> Joe
>
> The newer Motorola VP-Oncore  receivers are known to be an improved design
> over the original Oncores that came with the Z3801A's .
>
> I have recently done some  side by side comparison's with two z3801A's on
> the same antenna the newer Vp-Oncore's ran SS numbers 15-30 points higher on
> the same bird than the older receiver. In all fairness the older receiver is
> on its last legs (see last paragraph below)
>
> I also found out that there are two versions of the newer VP-Oncore. These
> can be distinguished by the antenna connector, One version has a right-angle
> chassis mounted connector like the original 6CH Oncore, the 2nd version has
> a straight on antenna connector. This 2nd version while they will work in a
> Z3801A, have an interference fit problem with a an IC  on the board below
> when the antenna cable is plugged in and you can't tighten down all the
> receiver board mounting screws. I am told that the straight on version fits
> the Z3816A with no problem. I have not verified this since I don't have a
> Z3816. I have no info  on the other Z38xx models and the fit of the later
> VP-Oncore
>
> The older 6ch Oncore receivers receivers are beginning to die apparently.  I
> have had one fail here a few months ago and recently acquired a 2nd Z3801A
> that is displaying similar symptoms to the first failure in that the
> receiver just stops working after a few hours...over time the symptom  are
> the receiver drops out for no apparent reason then revives if the unit is
> powered off for a while. Over time the time to receiver drop out gets
> shorter and shorter after each successive power cycle, I have one receiver
> that will now fail within 20 minutes predictably.
>
> Dave
> NR1DX
>
>
>
>
> On 3/16/2016 7:03 AM, Joseph Gray wrote:
>>
>> I understand that the Oncore GPS in the Lucent units is a newer module
>> that tracks eight satellites, vs the older Oncore in the Z3801A that
>> only tracks six satellites.
>>
>> I decided to do a re-survey with my Z3801A that has been in holdover
>> for some time, just as a test. Watching the status screens from both
>> GPSDOs, both are seeing the same number of satellites, however, the
>> Z3801A is consistently locking to 3-4 fewer than the Lucent.
>>
>> This begs the question, is the older Oncore module that deaf, or is
>> mine defective. BTW, same antenna on a 4-port splitter, same elevation
>> mask.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave
> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> www.ArtekManuals.com
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent GPS UTC confusion

2016-03-20 Thread Joseph Gray
Hal,

I did the "*TST?" command, which seemed to do a power cycle. The
Status screen shows "GPS 1PPS Synchronized to UTC".

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 11:30 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:
>
> jg...@zianet.com said:
>> I noticed on the Status screen that the Lucent unit said the PPS was locked
>> to GPS, not UTC, as the Z3801A is. So, I issued ":DIAG:GPS:UTC 1" and "TST?"
>> to correct this.
>
>> But things are not as I expected. Displaying the clock for both GPSDO's in
>> Z38xx now shows them to be 17 seconds different, which is of course the leap
>> seconds.
>
>> This seems backwards. With both units set to UTC, why are they showing
>> different times?
>
> My notes about that include "needs power cycle"
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
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[time-nuts] Microsonics TCXO

2016-03-20 Thread Joseph Gray
I got my hands on some of these.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/TCXO%20Top.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/TCXO%20Bottom.jpg

A search finds other Microsonics units, but not this one. I can't find
any information on what voltage to feed this. Does anyone know?

I know that these aren't Time Nuts grade, but I am curious to see how
good/bad they are. They look to be NOS from 1979.

Some of the other samples are marked as being set to anywhere from 1
Hz to 7 Hz high or low. Why would they have been factory adjusted high
or low?


Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent GPS UTC confusion

2016-03-19 Thread Joseph Gray
Thanks to Paul, the Lucent is now reporting UTC. Apparently, even
though the Status screen says UTC, it doesn't really change until
after a power cycle. Bad UI.

My Z3801A is off at the moment and about to go onto the bench, so I
compared against: http://time.is/UTC

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 7:27 AM, Paul <tic-...@bodosom.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>
>> I noticed on the Status screen that the Lucent unit said the PPS was
>> locked to GPS, not UTC, as the Z3801A is. So, I issued ":DIAG:GPS:UTC
>> 1" and "TST?" to correct this.
>
>
> I have a collection of notes about the Lucent at http://do-nyc.bodosom.net.
>
> As previously noted the relevant bits are:
>
> :DIAG:GPS:UTC 0|1 (0 GPS, changing time scale happens after reboot e.g.
> :syst:pon)
> :DIAG:GPS:UTC? (Reports new value immediately on change)
> ...
> :SYSTem:PON (reset the unit as opposed to the normal use of this command)
>
>
>
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[time-nuts] Z3801A EEPROM

2016-03-19 Thread Joseph Gray
Referring to this old post:

https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-December/061718.html

In particular, this statement:

"but If the RTC in the receiver is not set or its battery has failed,
and the reference year stored in EEPROM is also wrong, the receiver
may select the wrong 20-year window."

Does anyone know where in the EEPROM the reference year is stored and
in what format? I thought that while I have the unit on the workbench,
I might also get it on the current 1024 week cycle. I'd also do the
spare unit I just traded for.

Yes, I'll add a battery pack as well :-)

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet

2016-03-19 Thread Joseph Gray
Well, the 4-port serial to Ethernet converter has been running for 22
hours, collecting data from two GPSDO's and it hasn't missed a beat.

Although I have had the Lucent unit running for several months, this
is the first time I have hooked up to the RS-422 port and taken data
from it. From the look of this graph, it seems to be performing quite
well.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Lucent%20Adev.png

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
>>
>> And, if you have a couple of 422 devices, consider the economics of a 4-port 
>> unit like:
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301881123530
>
> As promised, I am reporting on the USR-N540, 4-serial-port to Ethernet
> box that Tom linked to. I had originally found it for less, but after
> ordering, the seller emailed back to tell me he had no more at that
> price. In any event, after about three weeks from China, my unit
> arrived today. I haven't had any long term experience with this thing,
> so hopefully it will continue to work.
>
> It was very well packed in a small box with hard foam. Included are
> the converter box, wall wart (switcher), 2-pin screw terminal power
> adapter, serial cable, Ethernet cable and four DE-9 to 4-pin screw
> terminal adapters (for RS-422, RS-485). No documentation and no
> software. The box is made from steel and seems substantial. The power
> input is labeled "DC: 9-24V".
>
> I downloaded manuals and software from here:
> http://www.usriot.com/p/4-serial-port-to-ethernet-converter/
>
> One annoying thing is that the box is setup with a static IP, instead
> of DHCP. The default IP of 192.168.0.7 is printed on the bottom, as
> well as in the manual. The MAC address is not printed on the bottom.
> The manual also lists the default login credentials.
>
> I initially only configured Port 1 in the web interface, to test with
> my HP Z3801A (RS-232, 19200, 7, odd, 1). I then installed the Virtual
> Serial Port software. This seems to be a licensed version of the
> Eltima software http://www.eltima.com/products/vspdxp/. Or, perhaps
> the Eltimat software is licensed from USR IOT?
>
> In the software, you can click on the "Smart VCOM" button and all four
> ports will be assigned for you, using the first available port numbers
> on your PC. I wanted a sequential range of 10-13, so I configured each
> port individually, using the "Add COM" button. The interface box uses
> TCP/IP ports of 23, 26, 29 and 32 by default, but these can be changed
> in the web interface. Interestingly, the MAC address can also be
> changed.
>
> The web interface is very well laid out and logical, as is the Virtual
> Serial Port software. I have been connected to the Z3801A for almost
> half an hour and things seem to be working just fine. I'll update if I
> encounter any problems later. I will have to try the RS-422 with my
> Lucent GPSDO.
>
> All in all, I am pleased with this converter box. At $20 per port, it
> seems like a good deal for a new item. I know that others are using
> surplus terminal servers that they bought for less.
>
> Approximate dimensions: 8.5" (including mounting ears) x 4.75" x 1.2"
>
> Joe Gray
> W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet

2016-03-19 Thread Joseph Gray
Yes, I should have realized that it wasn't comparing the GPSDO against
anything. So, what is the point of this graph in Z38xx?

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Be *very* careful looking at plots based on translated DAC readings. You 
> don’t really have all you need to come up with proper numbers. A simple scale 
> error can make things look much better or much worse than they actually are.
>
> Bob
>
>> On Mar 16, 2016, at 7:54 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, the 4-port serial to Ethernet converter has been running for 22
>> hours, collecting data from two GPSDO's and it hasn't missed a beat.
>>
>> Although I have had the Lucent unit running for several months, this
>> is the first time I have hooked up to the RS-422 port and taken data
>> from it. From the look of this graph, it seems to be performing quite
>> well.
>>
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Lucent%20Adev.png
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And, if you have a couple of 422 devices, consider the economics of a 
>>>> 4-port unit like:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301881123530
>>>
>>> As promised, I am reporting on the USR-N540, 4-serial-port to Ethernet
>>> box that Tom linked to. I had originally found it for less, but after
>>> ordering, the seller emailed back to tell me he had no more at that
>>> price. In any event, after about three weeks from China, my unit
>>> arrived today. I haven't had any long term experience with this thing,
>>> so hopefully it will continue to work.
>>>
>>> It was very well packed in a small box with hard foam. Included are
>>> the converter box, wall wart (switcher), 2-pin screw terminal power
>>> adapter, serial cable, Ethernet cable and four DE-9 to 4-pin screw
>>> terminal adapters (for RS-422, RS-485). No documentation and no
>>> software. The box is made from steel and seems substantial. The power
>>> input is labeled "DC: 9-24V".
>>>
>>> I downloaded manuals and software from here:
>>> http://www.usriot.com/p/4-serial-port-to-ethernet-converter/
>>>
>>> One annoying thing is that the box is setup with a static IP, instead
>>> of DHCP. The default IP of 192.168.0.7 is printed on the bottom, as
>>> well as in the manual. The MAC address is not printed on the bottom.
>>> The manual also lists the default login credentials.
>>>
>>> I initially only configured Port 1 in the web interface, to test with
>>> my HP Z3801A (RS-232, 19200, 7, odd, 1). I then installed the Virtual
>>> Serial Port software. This seems to be a licensed version of the
>>> Eltima software http://www.eltima.com/products/vspdxp/. Or, perhaps
>>> the Eltimat software is licensed from USR IOT?
>>>
>>> In the software, you can click on the "Smart VCOM" button and all four
>>> ports will be assigned for you, using the first available port numbers
>>> on your PC. I wanted a sequential range of 10-13, so I configured each
>>> port individually, using the "Add COM" button. The interface box uses
>>> TCP/IP ports of 23, 26, 29 and 32 by default, but these can be changed
>>> in the web interface. Interestingly, the MAC address can also be
>>> changed.
>>>
>>> The web interface is very well laid out and logical, as is the Virtual
>>> Serial Port software. I have been connected to the Z3801A for almost
>>> half an hour and things seem to be working just fine. I'll update if I
>>> encounter any problems later. I will have to try the RS-422 with my
>>> Lucent GPSDO.
>>>
>>> All in all, I am pleased with this converter box. At $20 per port, it
>>> seems like a good deal for a new item. I know that others are using
>>> surplus terminal servers that they bought for less.
>>>
>>> Approximate dimensions: 8.5" (including mounting ears) x 4.75" x 1.2"
>>>
>>> Joe Gray
>>> W5JG
>> ___
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[time-nuts] Lucent GPS UTC confusion

2016-03-19 Thread Joseph Gray
I noticed on the Status screen that the Lucent unit said the PPS was
locked to GPS, not UTC, as the Z3801A is. So, I issued ":DIAG:GPS:UTC
1" and "TST?" to correct this.

But things are not as I expected. Displaying the clock for both
GPSDO's in Z38xx now shows them to be 17 seconds different, which is
of course the leap seconds.

This seems backwards. With both units set to UTC, why are they showing
different times?

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A recovering

2016-03-19 Thread Joseph Gray
Dave,

I power cycled it about 20 days ago, which did no good. That is the
496 hours holdover time. This time, I did just the survey once
command. I'll try your suggestion before attacking the hardware. I'm
currently using Z38xx.exe.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Artek Manuals <manu...@artekmanuals.com> wrote:
> Joe
>
> I am confused by the fact that it shows the unit has been in HOLDOVER for
> 496 hours if you did a fresh survey
>
> Did you do a SYSTEM:PRESET: and GPS:POS:SURVEY:ONCE commands to initiate the
> new survey or just the survey command or  What software are you running?
>
> I would power the unit down and let it sit for 24 hours and then do the two
> commands above.
>
> What software are you running?
>
> Dave
> NR1DX
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/16/2016 7:38 PM, Joseph Gray wrote:
>>
>> As I mentioned a while back, my trusty Z3801A, which has worked well
>> for several years, went into holdover some time ago and stayed there.
>> Until recently, I haven't had time to look into this. About 20 days
>> ago, I did power cycle it to see if that made a difference. It did
>> not.
>>
>> In the middle of the night, last night (couldn't sleep), I decided to
>> see what initiating a new survey would do. Since the unit doesn't lock
>> to as many satellites as my Lucent with the newer Oncore, it took
>> quite a while for the survey to finish.
>>
>> I just got home from work and this is what I am seeing:
>>
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Z3801A.png
>>
>> The good news is that the unit no longer telling me the PPS is
>> invalid. It looks like it will be another long while before it comes
>> out of Recovery (assuming the PPS stays locked).
>>
>> I'm not the best at interpreting these graphs. At this point, should I
>> be concerned abouth the spikey nature of the EFC graph, or will things
>> calm down eventually? I assume that the PPS graph won't show until
>> Recovery is done?
>>
>> If this unit loses PPS lock again, or otherwise acts up, then I would
>> assume it is a hardware problem, and I'll have to put it on the bench.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
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>
>
> --
> Dave
> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> www.ArtekManuals.com
>
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[time-nuts] Z3801A recovering

2016-03-19 Thread Joseph Gray
As I mentioned a while back, my trusty Z3801A, which has worked well
for several years, went into holdover some time ago and stayed there.
Until recently, I haven't had time to look into this. About 20 days
ago, I did power cycle it to see if that made a difference. It did
not.

In the middle of the night, last night (couldn't sleep), I decided to
see what initiating a new survey would do. Since the unit doesn't lock
to as many satellites as my Lucent with the newer Oncore, it took
quite a while for the survey to finish.

I just got home from work and this is what I am seeing:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Z3801A.png

The good news is that the unit no longer telling me the PPS is
invalid. It looks like it will be another long while before it comes
out of Recovery (assuming the PPS stays locked).

I'm not the best at interpreting these graphs. At this point, should I
be concerned abouth the spikey nature of the EFC graph, or will things
calm down eventually? I assume that the PPS graph won't show until
Recovery is done?

If this unit loses PPS lock again, or otherwise acts up, then I would
assume it is a hardware problem, and I'll have to put it on the bench.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A recovering

2016-03-19 Thread Joseph Gray
The saga continues. Last night, I hooked up the second Z3801A that I
got recently. At first, it was having a hard time finding satellites
and then locking. I did a PRESET and started a new survey late last
night. All day and this evening, it has been operating flawlessly.
Tonight, I did a quick power cycle to get the date set correctly.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Z3801A%20%232.png

>From the graph, you can see where I restarted it at the left. It then
runs fine for several hours. But look at the latest. And of course, it
keeps going into holdover. During all of this, it has been tracking
from 2-6 satellites, mostly about 4-5. So, unit #2 definitely has a
problem.

It's late, so I'm going to leave it alone until tomorrow, when I'll
open it up and probe around a bit. I'll pay particular attention to
the tantalum caps, which someone mentioned. As old as these things
are, it wouldn't surprise me if some were bad.

Joe Gray
W5JG

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:21 AM, John Green <wpxs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe, I'd be interested in knowing what you find out. My Z3801 is acting a
> lot like yours. It is currently locked, but.
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:15 AM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> I power cycled it about 20 days ago, which did no good. That is the
>> 496 hours holdover time. This time, I did just the survey once
>> command. I'll try your suggestion before attacking the hardware. I'm
>> currently using Z38xx.exe.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Artek Manuals <manu...@artekmanuals.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Joe
>> >
>> > I am confused by the fact that it shows the unit has been in HOLDOVER for
>> > 496 hours if you did a fresh survey
>> >
>> > Did you do a SYSTEM:PRESET: and GPS:POS:SURVEY:ONCE commands to initiate
>> the
>> > new survey or just the survey command or  What software are you
>> running?
>> >
>> > I would power the unit down and let it sit for 24 hours and then do the
>> two
>> > commands above.
>> >
>> > What software are you running?
>> >
>> > Dave
>> > NR1DX
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 3/16/2016 7:38 PM, Joseph Gray wrote:
>> >>
>> >> As I mentioned a while back, my trusty Z3801A, which has worked well
>> >> for several years, went into holdover some time ago and stayed there.
>> >> Until recently, I haven't had time to look into this. About 20 days
>> >> ago, I did power cycle it to see if that made a difference. It did
>> >> not.
>> >>
>> >> In the middle of the night, last night (couldn't sleep), I decided to
>> >> see what initiating a new survey would do. Since the unit doesn't lock
>> >> to as many satellites as my Lucent with the newer Oncore, it took
>> >> quite a while for the survey to finish.
>> >>
>> >> I just got home from work and this is what I am seeing:
>> >>
>> >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Z3801A.png
>> >>
>> >> The good news is that the unit no longer telling me the PPS is
>> >> invalid. It looks like it will be another long while before it comes
>> >> out of Recovery (assuming the PPS stays locked).
>> >>
>> >> I'm not the best at interpreting these graphs. At this point, should I
>> >> be concerned abouth the spikey nature of the EFC graph, or will things
>> >> calm down eventually? I assume that the PPS graph won't show until
>> >> Recovery is done?
>> >>
>> >> If this unit loses PPS lock again, or otherwise acts up, then I would
>> >> assume it is a hardware problem, and I'll have to put it on the bench.
>> >>
>> >> Joe Gray
>> >> W5JG
>> >> ___
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>> >> and follow the instructions there.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dave
>> > manu...@artekmanuals.com
>> > www.ArtekManuals.com
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >
>> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A EEPROM

2016-03-18 Thread Joseph Gray
Magnus,

Yes, I know that is how it works. I was just curious if anyone knew
how and where that information was stored in the EEPROM. I thought it
might be nice not to fool around with trying to set the date before it
queried the satellites, to avoid the 1024 week issue. If I could
update the EEPROM, I'd be good for at least this 20 year cycle.

I know, this issue doesn't come up often, unless the unit get's power
cycled, which isn't often (usually years). But thinking about the
small stuff is what makes me hang around with everyone else here. This
came up recently because of my troubleshooting a flakey Z3801A and the
fact that I traded for another Z3801A.

Joe Gray
W5JG

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Magnus Danielson
<mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> On 03/18/2016 02:33 AM, Joseph Gray wrote:
>>
>> Referring to this old post:
>>
>> https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-December/061718.html
>>
>> In particular, this statement:
>>
>> "but If the RTC in the receiver is not set or its battery has failed,
>> and the reference year stored in EEPROM is also wrong, the receiver
>> may select the wrong 20-year window."
>>
>> Does anyone know where in the EEPROM the reference year is stored and
>> in what format? I thought that while I have the unit on the workbench,
>> I might also get it on the current 1024 week cycle. I'd also do the
>> spare unit I just traded for.
>>
>> Yes, I'll add a battery pack as well :-)
>
>
> As I gather it, the Z3801A relies on the GPS receiver board to give the time
> in correct form. Might be some setup it does.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
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[time-nuts] Difference between Oncore models

2016-03-18 Thread Joseph Gray
I understand that the Oncore GPS in the Lucent units is a newer module
that tracks eight satellites, vs the older Oncore in the Z3801A that
only tracks six satellites.

I decided to do a re-survey with my Z3801A that has been in holdover
for some time, just as a test. Watching the status screens from both
GPSDOs, both are seeing the same number of satellites, however, the
Z3801A is consistently locking to 3-4 fewer than the Lucent.

This begs the question, is the older Oncore module that deaf, or is
mine defective. BTW, same antenna on a 4-port splitter, same elevation
mask.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] Lucent PPS

2016-03-16 Thread Joseph Gray
Although I have had this GPSDO operating continuously for several
months, this is the first time I have looked at the serial output. The
Status information looks OK to me, but should the PPS be jumping
around this much? I can't compare it to my Z3801A as I haven't gotten
around to fixing it yet (still in holdover).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/Lucent%20GPSDO.png

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet

2016-03-15 Thread Joseph Gray
On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
>
> And, if you have a couple of 422 devices, consider the economics of a 4-port 
> unit like:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301881123530

As promised, I am reporting on the USR-N540, 4-serial-port to Ethernet
box that Tom linked to. I had originally found it for less, but after
ordering, the seller emailed back to tell me he had no more at that
price. In any event, after about three weeks from China, my unit
arrived today. I haven't had any long term experience with this thing,
so hopefully it will continue to work.

It was very well packed in a small box with hard foam. Included are
the converter box, wall wart (switcher), 2-pin screw terminal power
adapter, serial cable, Ethernet cable and four DE-9 to 4-pin screw
terminal adapters (for RS-422, RS-485). No documentation and no
software. The box is made from steel and seems substantial. The power
input is labeled "DC: 9-24V".

I downloaded manuals and software from here:
http://www.usriot.com/p/4-serial-port-to-ethernet-converter/

One annoying thing is that the box is setup with a static IP, instead
of DHCP. The default IP of 192.168.0.7 is printed on the bottom, as
well as in the manual. The MAC address is not printed on the bottom.
The manual also lists the default login credentials.

I initially only configured Port 1 in the web interface, to test with
my HP Z3801A (RS-232, 19200, 7, odd, 1). I then installed the Virtual
Serial Port software. This seems to be a licensed version of the
Eltima software http://www.eltima.com/products/vspdxp/. Or, perhaps
the Eltimat software is licensed from USR IOT?

In the software, you can click on the "Smart VCOM" button and all four
ports will be assigned for you, using the first available port numbers
on your PC. I wanted a sequential range of 10-13, so I configured each
port individually, using the "Add COM" button. The interface box uses
TCP/IP ports of 23, 26, 29 and 32 by default, but these can be changed
in the web interface. Interestingly, the MAC address can also be
changed.

The web interface is very well laid out and logical, as is the Virtual
Serial Port software. I have been connected to the Z3801A for almost
half an hour and things seem to be working just fine. I'll update if I
encounter any problems later. I will have to try the RS-422 with my
Lucent GPSDO.

All in all, I am pleased with this converter box. At $20 per port, it
seems like a good deal for a new item. I know that others are using
surplus terminal servers that they bought for less.

Approximate dimensions: 8.5" (including mounting ears) x 4.75" x 1.2"

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] BG7TBL GPS Disciplined Source

2016-03-13 Thread Joseph Gray
There is a long thread over on the EEVblog forum about the various
versions made by BG7TBL. You can match the date and pictures with what
you have.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 9:47 PM, Gedas  wrote:
> Hello to the group. I am a new member and 1st wanted to say hello. I also
> wanted to say that I have been reading, with great interest, most of the
> posts here for the last 2-3 weeks.  I must say, I am quite ignorant of the
> majority of the information & terms being passed back and forth so this is a
> neat learning experience for me. I am a retired EE (had a prior life in the
> TEMPEST community for over 30 years) and I am slowly assembling my
> collection of test equipment here at home, purely for fun.
>
> This is where I really embarrass myself.sometime ago I purchased an
> inexpensive 10 MHz GPS based reference source (BG7TBL GPS Disciplined
> Source) for my various counters, transceivers, spectrum analyzers, etc and
> was wondering if it was a good purchase and if anyone else used a similar
> unit.  I guess in the end I am curious to know what the short & long term
> accuracy and stability of my unit may be?  I no longer have access to any
> accurate (known) frequency sources like I did while employed and I do not
> think I have the equipment here at home to measure my unit myself.
>
> Gedas, W8BYA
>
> Gallery at http://w8bya.com
> Light travels faster than sound
> This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Best Rubidium Frequency Standard

2016-03-11 Thread Joseph Gray
>   Or, perhaps not. The two working TSD12s that I see on eBay (apparently
>   the same as the PRS-10 except the lock flag is set to 3 instead of 1 and
>   which can be reset)

Would you elaborate on this? I Googled for TSD12 and except for the
auction listings, found nothing.

Joe Gray
WW5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] I am a nut

2016-03-03 Thread Joseph Gray
I'll probaly not touch it. The reference is certainly good enough for
any radio repair. I just thought it was funny that at 0.2 Hz, my first
impulse was to "fix" it.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Chuck Harris  wrote:
> Speaking of Wavetek 3000's:  They are choc-O-block full of
> axial leaded electrolytic capacitors made in Mexico.  Sad to
> report that they will most all be bad at this point.  Their
> failure is in the rubber seal for the positive terminal.  It
> allows the capacitor to dry out rendering its bulk capacitance
> null and void.
>
> Electrolytic capacitors marked "Mexico" reached the replace
> on sight stage a good 20 years ago.
>
> The trimmer caps on the reference aren't generally a problem.
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
> paul swed wrote:
>>
>> Umm Joe.
>> A good sign of a recovering time-nut is to know when to just say "no!".
>> Funny ended up with a wavetek 3000 sig gen circa 1980 if I had to guess.
>> Its main oscillator is 18Hz high. Yes the desire to adjust it is the first
>> impulse. The second is when I tweak that cap all heck is going to break
>> loose. You just know the caps gone bad.
>> So considering what and how I would use it there actually was no reason to
>> foul it all up.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet

2016-03-02 Thread Joseph Gray
> And, if you have a couple of 422 devices, consider the economics of a 4-port 
> unit like:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301881123530
>
> I have no affiliation with any seller, nor have I tried these specific items. 
> But they are inexpensive and look worthwhile. OTOH, I'm nervous about any 
> networking product made in CN even if its web interface says "IOT Experts" 
> and "Be Honest, Do Best!"...
>
> /tvb

Tom, I ordered one of those 4-port units. I will report back once I
have it and have tested it. Thanks for the recommendation.

I found it listed on Amazon for $40, but after I placed the order, the
Chinese seller replied back and said he had no more. Darn.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] SoftMark USB to GPIB converter

2016-03-02 Thread Joseph Gray
>From all accounts, the Softmark unit is pretty useless. Depending on
which software you will use, you might consider a Prologix. Also,
there are quite a few Agilent USB-GPIB converters on ebay. Although I
understand that most of the ones selling as "new" are fakes. I ordered
a "used" one. When I have it, I will open it to see if it is genuine
or not.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 3:00 PM, John Green  wrote:
> I have a desire to do some data collection and storage from my Racal 1992,
> and I need a USB to GPIB converter. We have a National Instruments
> converter at work, but I want to do this at home. The SoftMark unit is
> considerably less expensive than the NI one. Does it work? Specifically,
> would it work with my 1992? I seem to remember some discussion from way
> back that they don't play well with a lot of HP/Agilent/Keysight stuff. Has
> anyone with a 1992 used it with a SoftMark converter?
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[time-nuts] I am a nut

2016-03-01 Thread Joseph Gray
I just got an HP 8920B service monitor to replace what I had before.
It has the High Stability oscillator option. After running the self
tests, I was doing a quick check of the internal reference. With my
frequency counter locked to a GPSDO, I see that the 8920B reference is
0.2 Hz high. OMG! I'd adjust it, but this thing came calibrated and I
don't want to mess with it quite yet.

Just thought I'd share my obsession :-)

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] FW: Instrument BASIC

2016-02-28 Thread Joseph Gray
All this talk of Instrument BASIC brings up a question. Is the Windows
version "out there" somewhere? I know you can't buy it any more.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Daun Yeagley  wrote:
> Hi Magnus
>
> My memory is a bit faded on this, but the Instrument Basic on the 894xx is 
> pretty useful, and I'd recommend making use of it.  Instrument Basic is a 
> subset of "Rocky Mountain Basic" which was a very useful programming 
> language, especially for instrument control.  "Back in the day", I did some 
> programs for customers on the analyzers.  Another notable example was a 
> program that was written for performance proofs for ATSC (US digital TV 
> standard) by an engineer at Zenith.  It proved quite popular with TV 
> engineers because it pretty much automated the setup of the analyzer for 
> these tests.
> I don't know if I've still got any programming examples any more again, 
> that was a long time ago now!
> I also don't remember how difficult it is to add the option to an existing 
> analyzer.  Does your analyzer(s) have the option?
>
> Daun
>
> Daun E. Yeagley, II, N8ASB
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus 
> Danielson
> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 11:06 AM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Cc: mag...@rubidium.se
> Subject: [time-nuts] Instrument BASIC
>
> Fellow time-nuts,
>
> This is a little off the normal time-stuff, but I wonder if people just 
> happens to have some suitable input to give.
>
> I have a couple of HP89410A/89441A and would like to see if it would be nice 
> to see what could be done using the instrument BASIC. How would I be able to 
> enable or install it?
>
> Now, don't even bother to write comments about how you can do better using 
> software control from a PC with this and that tool, this is explicitly not 
> part of the question.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

2016-02-27 Thread Joseph Gray
Nice teardown. I was looking at that listing just yesterday. I am tempted,
but don't know what I'd do with 40.

The real question is, how do they perform?

Joe Gray
W5JG
On Feb 27, 2016 9:48 AM, "Daniel Watson"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm sure many of you are tracking the cheap CTS 10MHz OCXOs available on
> eBay right now. I purchased a case of them, and decided to crack one open.
> I took pictures along the way, thinking that might be interesting to the
> list. Here is the blog post if you are interested:
>
>
> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/10mhz-ocxo-teardown-cts-1960017.html
>
> Comments on the internal construction of the OCXO are welcome. It seems
> pretty straightforward inside though.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dan W.
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Re: [time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet

2016-02-25 Thread Joseph Gray
Dave,

I am running Win7 64-bit.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:57 AM, Artek Manuals <manu...@artekmanuals.com> wrote:
> On 2/25/2016 12:01 AM, Joseph Gray wrote:
>>
>> I just thought I'd report about a serial to Ethernet interface I just
>> bought. I got one of these:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ATV2DX2
>>
>> At the moment it is hooked up to my Z3801A and I am using Z38XX.exe
>> from across the network. Using the included software and driver, I
>> have the RS232 port mapped to COM 7 on my local PC.
>>
>> I bought this particular model not only because of price, but because
>> it also does RS422. I will test this capability with my Lucent GPSDO
>> with the RS422 ports. If it works, I'll order another one just for the
>> Lucent.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
> Joe
>
> Thanks ...what operating System are you running. I have had problems in the
> past with USB/ COM adapters that run on some versions of windows but not
> others
> Dave
> NR1DX
>
>
> --
> Dave
> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> www.ArtekManuals.com
>
> ---
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A holdover

2016-02-25 Thread Joseph Gray
Dave,

I haven't monitored the Z3801A in quite some time, but I do remember
that it used to track more satellites. For probably a year, the unit
would go into holdover often. Then a few months ago, it stayed in
holdover. Last night was the first time that I have looked at the
stats and information recently.

The antenna is a Symmetricom timing antenna. It used to sit on top of
my service monitor, but has recently been raised up several feet, in
the clear. I can't easily get it outside because I'm renting
(single-story frame house). When the Z3801A used to track more sats,
the antenna was in the old location.

I am using a 4-port Symmetricom GPS splitter. My Lucent 2-box GPSDO is
on one of the ports. I moved the Z3801A to another port, to make sure
that wasn't the problem.

What I will do tonight when I get home is to see how many sats the
Lucent is tracking.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Artek Manuals <manu...@artekmanuals.com> wrote:
> Joe, Joe and Bob
>
> I am still not ready to condemn the receiver until we have more data..
>
> Do you have any history on how many satellites you were tracking in the
> past, i.e are the number of sats being tracked and the sat strengths typical
> for your setup or are they noticeably lower now than in the past? Describe
> the antenna and its installation. While not ideal at just tracking 4 sats
> the unit will still track and lock with that few, what is more likely to
> suffer than anything is the holdover performance than the power up GPSDO
> accuracy
>
> I have a dead on Oncore here on the bench and there are as far as I know no
> schematics available and even if there were troubleshooting it could be a
> REAL challenge, certainly there no "adjustments".
>
> If anyone REALLY wants to see one I can post some up close and personal
> photos of the receiver board ...only helpful  in discouraging thoughts of
> repairing it as near as I can tell especially since replacement receivers
> abound from a list member and on Evil-Bay at reasonable prices
>
> Dave
> NR1DX
>
>
>
>
> On 2/25/2016 9:15 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> I recently had a problem with my Z3816A where it reported an erroneous
>> date, 2035 IIRC.  However, the time was accurate.
>>
>> It was only tracking 4 sats and the signal strengths were low.  My TBolt
>> was tracking 8 sats with good signal strength.  My antenna feeds a
>> Symmetricom 58536A 4 way splitter and that feeds the receivers.
>>
>> I 'rebooted' the unit by turning off power, leaving it overnight then
>> turned it on.  Same thing.
>>
>> I then removed and replaced the 'battery backup batteries' (they tested
>> good) that I had installed and restarted it.  It never found itself.  I then
>> gave it the Lat/Long and it found itself, with the correct time but with
>> only 4 sats and with low signal strength.
>>
>> I then replaced the GPS receiver and now all is well.  It found itself, 8
>> sats, good signal strength, correct date and time, as compared to the TBolt.
>>
>> So, the GPS receiver might be on the list for your problem.
>>
>> Does anyone know anything about how to repair these receivers?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Joe
>> WB4BPP
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Joseph
>> Gray
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:37 PM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: [Bulk] [time-nuts] Z3801A holdover
>>
>> I just took a look at my Z3801A that has been in holdover for some time. I
>> have been too busy to do anything about it until now.
>>
>> Before looking at the receiver stats just now, my first guess was that the
>> Oncore GPS board went bad. However, I see that it is currently tracking 4
>> sats. I also see that the 1pps is invalid. Does this still point to a failed
>> Oncore board?
>>
>> Attached is a screenshot showing the receiver stats.
>>
>> I will open this thing up over the weekend to check voltages and such.
>> Until then, any tips on where to look are appreciated.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>>
>> ___
>
>
> --
> Dave
> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> www.ArtekManuals.com
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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Re: [time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet

2016-02-25 Thread Joseph Gray
Tom,

I forgot one thing I was going to say about your comment of not
trusting CN network products. I fully understand these concerns. In
fact, any networked device (regardless of manufacturer) that I have
that does not require internet access has its "gateway" set to its own
IP address. This may not be foolproof, but certainly makes it harder
for malicious hardware to talk to the outside world. If I wanted to be
extra cautious/paranoid, I could also add firewall rules to block
devices by MAC address.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
> Joe,
> Thanks for that posting. I've also used a lot of LAN or USB to RS422 
> converters, as well as RS232/422 adapters on my Z3801A.
>
> Before you commit to Amazon, note there are many Ethernet/RS422 offerings on 
> eBay.
> Just do an eBay search for: RS422 ethernet
> Or to uncover even more listings, in the search box, type:
>
> RS422 (Ethernet,LAN,TCP/IP,Network)
>
> I see there's some local ones (USA) for less than your Amazon find:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201326888567
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181841884873
>
> There are also inexpensive bare-board versions like:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131700539876
>
> And, if you have a couple of 422 devices, consider the economics of a 4-port 
> unit like:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301881123530
>
> I have no affiliation with any seller, nor have I tried these specific items. 
> But they are inexpensive and look worthwhile. OTOH, I'm nervous about any 
> networking product made in CN even if its web interface says "IOT Experts" 
> and "Be Honest, Do Best!"...
>
> /tvb
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joseph Gray" <jg...@zianet.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
> <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:01 PM
> Subject: [time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet
>
>
>>I just thought I'd report about a serial to Ethernet interface I just
>> bought. I got one of these:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ATV2DX2
>>
>> At the moment it is hooked up to my Z3801A and I am using Z38XX.exe
>> from across the network. Using the included software and driver, I
>> have the RS232 port mapped to COM 7 on my local PC.
>>
>> I bought this particular model not only because of price, but because
>> it also does RS422. I will test this capability with my Lucent GPSDO
>> with the RS422 ports. If it works, I'll order another one just for the
>> Lucent.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet

2016-02-25 Thread Joseph Gray
Tom,

There were two reasons I bought from Amazon, instead of ebay. First, I
got it within 2-days w/Prime shipping, instead of two or more weeks
from China. Second, it is easier to return things to Amazon. In fact,
the first serial-Ethernet device I ordered had to be returned. It came
with a bad power supply and even with a good supply, did not work. I
felt that it was worth spending a bit more for these conveniences.

As for a multi-port device, yes, that makes sense. I'll see if I can
find something similar on Amazon.

What USB-Ethernet devices have you had good luck with? I am
considering a somewhat expensive Silex device. I did buy a used
Belkin-branded box that was made by Silex, but it kept
disconnecting/reconnecting the USB devices. This seemed to be a common
problem with this particular Belkin box.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
> Joe,
> Thanks for that posting. I've also used a lot of LAN or USB to RS422 
> converters, as well as RS232/422 adapters on my Z3801A.
>
> Before you commit to Amazon, note there are many Ethernet/RS422 offerings on 
> eBay.
> Just do an eBay search for: RS422 ethernet
> Or to uncover even more listings, in the search box, type:
>
> RS422 (Ethernet,LAN,TCP/IP,Network)
>
> I see there's some local ones (USA) for less than your Amazon find:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201326888567
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181841884873
>
> There are also inexpensive bare-board versions like:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131700539876
>
> And, if you have a couple of 422 devices, consider the economics of a 4-port 
> unit like:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301881123530
>
> I have no affiliation with any seller, nor have I tried these specific items. 
> But they are inexpensive and look worthwhile. OTOH, I'm nervous about any 
> networking product made in CN even if its web interface says "IOT Experts" 
> and "Be Honest, Do Best!"...
>
> /tvb
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joseph Gray" <jg...@zianet.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
> <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:01 PM
> Subject: [time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet
>
>
>>I just thought I'd report about a serial to Ethernet interface I just
>> bought. I got one of these:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ATV2DX2
>>
>> At the moment it is hooked up to my Z3801A and I am using Z38XX.exe
>> from across the network. Using the included software and driver, I
>> have the RS232 port mapped to COM 7 on my local PC.
>>
>> I bought this particular model not only because of price, but because
>> it also does RS422. I will test this capability with my Lucent GPSDO
>> with the RS422 ports. If it works, I'll order another one just for the
>> Lucent.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A holdover

2016-02-25 Thread Joseph Gray
Dave,

Thanks for the tips. I also got a message off list telling me about
the EFC issue and that I missed this discussion recently on the list.

Last night, I power cycled the Z3801A. It has been running all night.
Attached is the graph you requested. If I read this correctly, yes, it
looks like the unit has maxed out the EFC voltage one way.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Artek Manuals <manu...@artekmanuals.com> wrote:
> On 2/24/2016 11:37 PM, Joseph Gray wrote:
>>
>> I just took a look at my Z3801A that has been in holdover for some
>> time. I have been too busy to do anything about it until now.
>>
>> Before looking at the receiver stats just now, my first guess was that
>> the Oncore GPS board went bad. However, I see that it is currently
>> tracking 4 sats. I also see that the 1pps is invalid. Does this still
>> point to a failed Oncore board?
>>
>> Attached is a screenshot showing the receiver stats.
>>
>> I will open this thing up over the weekend to check voltages and such.
>> Until then, any tips on where to look are appreciated.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> I'm no expert since I've only just begun playing with my Z3801A for the last
> 6 weeks after having it in mothballs for 15 years but having just gone
> through a Oncore failure on the surface it seems unlikely I would wish for
> slightly better signal strengths but I dont know what you experienced in the
> past.
>
> I am led to believe that EFC errors are typically associated with the
> Oscillator unit itself rather than the Oncore receiver,My first guess after
> that is the 10811 oscillator has "aged" out of a correctable range. In Z38xx
> program open the the graph window and send us a screen shot of that window,
> this should give us and idea of what the actual EFC value and behavior was
> just before things died.
>
> My next instinct ( but wait for a few other more experienced comments come
> out) is to turn the unit off and let it cool down for a day then do a cold
> start :SYSTEM:PRESET followed by a GPS:POS;SURV:ONCE command and see if it
> re-initializes. Takes about 2 hours typically since you have known good
> position  data.
>
> There is a description of the power supply and oven control circuitry for
> the oven on KO4BB.com .search for Z3801A in the MANUALS section You are
> basically looking to see if +/- 15VDC and +5VVDC lines are correct
>
> Dave
> NR1DX
>
>
> --
> Dave
> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> www.ArtekManuals.com
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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[time-nuts] Serial-Ethernet

2016-02-24 Thread Joseph Gray
I just thought I'd report about a serial to Ethernet interface I just
bought. I got one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ATV2DX2

At the moment it is hooked up to my Z3801A and I am using Z38XX.exe
from across the network. Using the included software and driver, I
have the RS232 port mapped to COM 7 on my local PC.

I bought this particular model not only because of price, but because
it also does RS422. I will test this capability with my Lucent GPSDO
with the RS422 ports. If it works, I'll order another one just for the
Lucent.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] Z3801A holdover

2016-02-24 Thread Joseph Gray
I just took a look at my Z3801A that has been in holdover for some
time. I have been too busy to do anything about it until now.

Before looking at the receiver stats just now, my first guess was that
the Oncore GPS board went bad. However, I see that it is currently
tracking 4 sats. I also see that the 1pps is invalid. Does this still
point to a failed Oncore board?

Attached is a screenshot showing the receiver stats.

I will open this thing up over the weekend to check voltages and such.
Until then, any tips on where to look are appreciated.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] SR620 testing

2016-02-23 Thread Joseph Gray
I don't think I would use the XY output, but I'm sure that this tilted
and overlaid text is not correct.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19599147/XY%20mode.jpg

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] SR620 testing

2016-02-22 Thread Joseph Gray
Ignore the problem with EXT trigger. I did a factory reset and now it
is working. I should have thought to reset it to begin with.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 8:14 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
> Finally got an SR620 at a decent price. I'm going through the
> Functional Tests and the Performance Tests now. So far, I have two
> anomalies.
>
> Pg 62 Functional Test - EXT input. When I vary the EXT trigger knob, I
> don't get the trigger LED, except that it flashes briefly at one spot
> as I move the knob from high to low.
>
> XY outputs - text at the top is slanted and text near the middle right
> is overlaid. I don't know if I care about this, as I am unlikely to
> use this feature.
>
> I can't test the printer port. No Epson printer. I probably don't care
> about this, either.
>
> Pg 63 Performance Test - Timebase frequency is 15 Hz high. I will adjust 
> later.
>
> Timebase accuracy +/- 0.0035 Hz passes.
>
> This is far as I have gotten. After I get a bite of dinner, I will proceed.
>
> The EXT trigger test not working worries me. Perhaps I am doing something 
> wrong?
>
>
> Joe Gray
> W5JG
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[time-nuts] SR620 testing

2016-02-22 Thread Joseph Gray
Finally got an SR620 at a decent price. I'm going through the
Functional Tests and the Performance Tests now. So far, I have two
anomalies.

Pg 62 Functional Test - EXT input. When I vary the EXT trigger knob, I
don't get the trigger LED, except that it flashes briefly at one spot
as I move the knob from high to low.

XY outputs - text at the top is slanted and text near the middle right
is overlaid. I don't know if I care about this, as I am unlikely to
use this feature.

I can't test the printer port. No Epson printer. I probably don't care
about this, either.

Pg 63 Performance Test - Timebase frequency is 15 Hz high. I will adjust later.

Timebase accuracy +/- 0.0035 Hz passes.

This is far as I have gotten. After I get a bite of dinner, I will proceed.

The EXT trigger test not working worries me. Perhaps I am doing something wrong?


Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] SR620

2016-02-15 Thread Joseph Gray
OK, who got the SR620 with the "test error 34"? From looking at the
manual, it may simply be user error and the instrument may be just
fine. If you are the buyer, I hope that is true and that you got a
bargain. I took a stab at buying it, but wasn't willing to chance too
much, in case there was something seriously wrong with it.


Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Calibration procedures - what is normal?

2016-02-12 Thread Joseph Gray
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist
 wrote:

> I left Agilent just before the split, but I don't know
> anyone there who liked that name.  Or the logo :-)

Another recent name change (acquisition) that is even worse is
Aeroflex to Cobham. I realize that Cobham is probably a family name
that was used when their business was started eons ago, but geez, in
all these years, they couldn't have come up with a better name for the
company? Even when it went from IFR to Aeroflex, that wasn't a bad
name at all.

In the coming fiscal year, we'll be spending close to $100K to buy
some Cobham (yuck!) service monitors (or communication analyzers as
they like to call them). Going to P25, the venerable HP 8920A just
doesn't cut it any more. As for the $100K, we're small potatoes. I was
told that an unnamed customer recently bought hundreds of units. It's
like that line "A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon, you're
talking real money."

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Calibration procedures - what is normal?

2016-02-12 Thread Joseph Gray
The consensus seems to be that I was expecting more than I should
have. That's what I get for reading service manuals :-)

Other than the confusion over what I was expecting, I can't fault the
cal lab I sent the meter to. They are charging me a hobbyist-friendly
price and aren't going to charge me for the extra time involved to
re-enter the cal data (I offered to pay). If I were using this for
business, I would probably have used HP/Agilent/Keysight/whatever
they'll be called next month.

When I think about it, I really don't know if the DMM had cal
constants in it when I bought it second hand. I say this because the
battery had previously been replaced. I thought it was original, but
when I pulled the board, I could see obvious signs of hand soldering.
I had asked the previous owner if the battery had been replaced and he
said no. I guess I was lied to. Who knows if the person who replaced
the battery before did things properly, so as to save the cal data.
When I replaced the battery, I purposely didn't bother saving
anything.

Once I get the 3457A back, I'll check my EDC VS330 voltage standard. I
suspect that it is also out of spec. I realize that I should use a
3458A for this, as the specs on the VS330 and the 3457A are similar.
The good news is that the cal lab said that they could probably adjust
the VS330 if needed. I emailed them the manual and asked. They said
they offer a one hour free eval, so if they decide they can't do it,
I'd only be out shipping, if I send it to them.

David Kirby - Yes, I do remember your talking about removing the
battery in your DMM. As for doing it yourself (at least with the
3457A), yes, if you had the proper standards that were also
calibrated. As I recall from reading the service manual weeks ago, the
procedure is just hooking up the appropriate standard for each
function and range, then pushing buttons on the front panel. I don't
have the necessary equipment, so I sent it off.

I agree that it would make more sense to have fitted a second battery,
or at least some pins on the board where you could easily clip in a
temporary battery. Otherwise, you have to solder something in
temporarily. Thankfully, modern equipment uses non-volatile memory
that doesn't need a battery.

Thanks to all for the feedback.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave
Ltd) <drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:
> On 12 Feb 2016 21:12, "Joseph Gray" <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
>>
>> I sent my HP 3457A in for cal. I should be getting it back next week.
>> I won't mention where I sent it, but it wasn't Keysight (I don't like
>> that name). I recently changed the SRAM battery and purposely did not
>> save the cal constants.
>
> You may have seen my recent post on the 3457A. I was tempted to do as you
> done, on the assumption that Keysight would adjust the meter to give the
> best possible accuracy rather than just leave something untouched if it was
> within spec.  Someone warned me that if it caused errors at startup,  it
> might be considered needing a repair rather than just calibration.
>
> Did the meter indicate in any way that the cal constants were lost? A POST
> error or similar?
>
>> The service manual lists an entire sequence of procedures for
>> calibrating this DMM, starting with storing values for zero and full
>> scale into the SRAM. All of this is done via the front panel, by
>> pushing buttons.
>
> So does that mean it is something one could do oneself without accurate
> standards?
>
>> I just found out that this part of the procedure is not normally done
>> (at least by the lab I sent the DMM to). With no pre-existing cal
>> constants, the tech I spoke to was rather annoyed that he was having
>> to spend the time doing the hookups and pushing buttons for each
>> function and range to store the zero and full scale values. I was told
>> this added an extra hour to the normal procedure.
>
> Ouch.
>
> I assume this means that your meter is probably calibrated more accurately
> than it would have been had any settings left unchanged if they were in
> spec.
>
> I have just bought a battery and intend fitting it soon.  I might ask
> Keysight about the constants.
>
> I really can't understand why they don't put two battery holders and a
> couple of diodes so a good battery in an one would be ok. Having to mess
> around desoldering batteries and hooking up power supplies seems crazy to
> me.
>
> Dr David Kirkby
> Managing Director
> Kirkby Microwave Ltd
> Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3
> 6DT, United Kingdom
> Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892
> http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
> Tel 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441

[time-nuts] Calibration procedures - what is normal?

2016-02-12 Thread Joseph Gray
I sent my HP 3457A in for cal. I should be getting it back next week.
I won't mention where I sent it, but it wasn't Keysight (I don't like
that name). I recently changed the SRAM battery and purposely did not
save the cal constants. I bought the meter second hand and it wasn't
in spec when I bought it. I didn't care what the past data was.

The service manual lists an entire sequence of procedures for
calibrating this DMM, starting with storing values for zero and full
scale into the SRAM. All of this is done via the front panel, by
pushing buttons.

I just found out that this part of the procedure is not normally done
(at least by the lab I sent the DMM to). With no pre-existing cal
constants, the tech I spoke to was rather annoyed that he was having
to spend the time doing the hookups and pushing buttons for each
function and range to store the zero and full scale values. I was told
this added an extra hour to the normal procedure.

Not knowing what is normally done in the cal lab, I assumed that the
entire procedure as listed in the service manual would be done. It
seems that I was wrong.

In the end, the lab decided not to charge me for the extra time
involved. I thanked them for that.

My question is, do any cal labs (including Keysight) normally perform
the zero and full scale procedures as listed in the service manual?

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] Cheap GPSDO's

2016-02-11 Thread Joseph Gray
I searched the list archives and found some discussion mid-to-late
last year about several inexpensive GPSDO's made by bg7tbl. It seems
that all of the better models (according to discussion on the EEVBlog
forum) are gone.

I do find two similar units currently listed:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252162780444

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181948031179

If these have already been discussed, please point me in the right
direction. Otherwise, does anyone know anything about these particular
units?

Then, there is this listing, which looks like factory-made and not homemade:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181389532308

Comments on this one?

Thanks,

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] Not so cheap GPSDO's

2016-02-11 Thread Joseph Gray
Moving upscale to more well known models that cost quite a bit more, I
see several Z3805A units. It looks like more than one type of OCXO was
used in these. Which variant would you recommend?

The less expensive Z3805A's look like they have been beat to crap,
before or after being pulled from the scrap pile. I'd worry about
damage to the OCXO in these. For more money, yixunhk has some nicely
packaged units and AFAIK he has a good reputation.

Another from yixunhk is this Z3816A for $350 w/shipping. This package
looks similar to my Z3801A:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271906200825

And finally, for $440 w/shipping, yixunhk has this nicely repackaged Z3815A:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251226090087

Comments on all of these is welcome. Of these "Z" units, which one
would you buy, and why?

Thanks again,

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] HP 10811

2016-02-11 Thread Joseph Gray
I have a spare 10811 that I want to setup as a standalone reference.
Since it is a double oven unit, should I put it and the power supply
in just a single walled plastic or metal box? Should I make air vents
or not? Going to extremes, can I put the OCXO inside a thick Styrofoam
box with no air flow at all (power supply external), or will this
cause overheating?

I may do a battery and float charger arrangement for the power supply,
so I can keep it running if the lights go out, or I want to take it
portable.

I know that the oscillator voltage needs to be very clean and stable,
but how about the oven voltage? Can I get away with a nominal 24VDC
from a battery, even while it discharges?

BTW, in case anyone was wondering why I haven't been on the list much
for quite a while, I have been busy taking care of my elderly mother.
She passed a month ago and now I am getting involved in projects
again. The first project is to clean and rearrange my work room. No
need to clutter the list with messages of sympathy. I'll pretend that
you sent them :-)

The 10811 has been on the shelf for a while, so once I get it running
again, I'll let it age for weeks (if not months) before adjusting it.
One advantage of being otherwise tied up lately, is that I have some
14-pin DIP Micro Crystal OCXO's that have been powered for months on a
breadboard, waiting for me to use one in a project. They should be
nicely aged by the time I get around to them.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] HPZ3801 Failure

2016-02-04 Thread Joseph Gray
It seems that there has been a rash of Z3801A failures lately. Mine
has been out of lock for a couple of months, but I haven't had time to
look into it. Comparing it against my other GPSDO, it seems that the
OCXO is not the problem, as after all this time, it is only 2 Hz off.
I'm guessing the GPS board went bad. I'll have to see if they are
still available on ebay.

After decades of use, I just can't understand why these things fail
:-) Too many projects.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Joseph Gray <jg...@zianet.com> wrote:
> Wes,
>
> I just checked and KO4BB already has the power supply info.
>
> http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/index.php?dir=02_GPS_Timing/Z3801
>
> Joe Gray
> W5JG
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:21 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Daves absolutely correct about working around bad supplies.
>> The reason for the preregulator is that it would allow the 3801 to meet
>> European ETSI dc voltage standards that goes up to 75VDC on the telco
>> battery bus. US can reach 56 VDC.
>> Anyhow if thats your only problem then you can solve the problem.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Artek Manuals <manu...@artekmanuals.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wes
>>>
>>> Some one reversed engineered the supply about 10 years ago and they posted
>>> the schematic on the WEBThe web link I have no longer works so I will
>>> email you the schematics of the supply direct.
>>>
>>> I will check to see if the files are not already up on KO4BB and if not I
>>> will post them up there for every one
>>>
>>>
>>> That being said while troubleshooting my own supply this week I have
>>> learned the following
>>> 1) The supply  ( is not a switcher) can be troubleshot on the bench
>>> removed ( and unplugged from from the Z3801A.
>>> 2) The supply is basically A pre-regulator and two DC-DC converters.By
>>> cutting one trace you can separate the two and bypass the preregulator
>>> which seems to me to be overkill if you using a good regulated DC supply to
>>> feed the thing 36 or more volts into the DC/DC converters is fine
>>> 3) The smaller DC-DC converter supplies 5V only ( probably for the
>>> receiver ???)
>>> 4) The larger Lucent converter supplies =15V / -15V /+5V
>>> 5) all the DC-DC outputs can be supplied with separate DC supplies of good
>>> quality
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave
>>> NR1DX
>>> ArtekManuals.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/4/2016 12:17 PM, Wes Atchison wrote:
>>>
>>>> My HPZ3801 has died.  It appears the internal DC to DC converters have
>>>> died.
>>>> The fuses (4) I have found on the boards check good with an ohmmeter.  I
>>>> have checked voltage on test points where labeled as a supply.  No
>>>> voltages
>>>> present.  Is there a schematic available somewhere?  Has anyone repaired a
>>>> Z3801 with similar problems?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any help.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Wes
>>>>
>>>> WA5TKU
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave
>>> manu...@artekmanuals.com
>>> www.ArtekManuals.com
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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Re: [time-nuts] HPZ3801 Failure

2016-02-04 Thread Joseph Gray
Wes,

I just checked and KO4BB already has the power supply info.

http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/index.php?dir=02_GPS_Timing/Z3801

Joe Gray
W5JG



On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:21 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> Daves absolutely correct about working around bad supplies.
> The reason for the preregulator is that it would allow the 3801 to meet
> European ETSI dc voltage standards that goes up to 75VDC on the telco
> battery bus. US can reach 56 VDC.
> Anyhow if thats your only problem then you can solve the problem.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Artek Manuals 
> wrote:
>
>> Wes
>>
>> Some one reversed engineered the supply about 10 years ago and they posted
>> the schematic on the WEBThe web link I have no longer works so I will
>> email you the schematics of the supply direct.
>>
>> I will check to see if the files are not already up on KO4BB and if not I
>> will post them up there for every one
>>
>>
>> That being said while troubleshooting my own supply this week I have
>> learned the following
>> 1) The supply  ( is not a switcher) can be troubleshot on the bench
>> removed ( and unplugged from from the Z3801A.
>> 2) The supply is basically A pre-regulator and two DC-DC converters.By
>> cutting one trace you can separate the two and bypass the preregulator
>> which seems to me to be overkill if you using a good regulated DC supply to
>> feed the thing 36 or more volts into the DC/DC converters is fine
>> 3) The smaller DC-DC converter supplies 5V only ( probably for the
>> receiver ???)
>> 4) The larger Lucent converter supplies =15V / -15V /+5V
>> 5) all the DC-DC outputs can be supplied with separate DC supplies of good
>> quality
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>> NR1DX
>> ArtekManuals.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/4/2016 12:17 PM, Wes Atchison wrote:
>>
>>> My HPZ3801 has died.  It appears the internal DC to DC converters have
>>> died.
>>> The fuses (4) I have found on the boards check good with an ohmmeter.  I
>>> have checked voltage on test points where labeled as a supply.  No
>>> voltages
>>> present.  Is there a schematic available somewhere?  Has anyone repaired a
>>> Z3801 with similar problems?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Wes
>>>
>>> WA5TKU
>>>
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>> manu...@artekmanuals.com
>> www.ArtekManuals.com
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] T.I. questions

2015-02-04 Thread Joseph Gray
Oops, I missed a digit on that last email. it should be 10,000 s
average for 100 ps resolution.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote:
 Sorry for the simple questions. Old hands can simply ignore this
 message if it bothers you.

 I have an HP 5328A that I have pieced together from broken units. As
 soon as I make a ribbon cable for the GPIB card, I want to use it for
 T.I. measurements. I know it isn't nearly as good as a 5370, but it is
 what I have at the moment.

 The manual states that the Universal module adds dithering to the
 multiplied 100 MHz internal reference. If I use a GPSDO as an external
 reference, will this multiplying/dithering allow me to use the same
 GPSDO (divided down to PPS) on either the START or STOP inputs? If
 not, then how about using a different GPSDO as the external reference?
 Or even an FE5680A rubidium?

 If I read the specs correctly, using T.I. averaging on the 5328A, a
 1000 s average should get me 100 ps resolution? With this particular
 instrument, what is the best, useful resolution I can expect?

 Joe Gray
 W5JG
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[time-nuts] T.I. questions

2015-02-04 Thread Joseph Gray
Sorry for the simple questions. Old hands can simply ignore this
message if it bothers you.

I have an HP 5328A that I have pieced together from broken units. As
soon as I make a ribbon cable for the GPIB card, I want to use it for
T.I. measurements. I know it isn't nearly as good as a 5370, but it is
what I have at the moment.

The manual states that the Universal module adds dithering to the
multiplied 100 MHz internal reference. If I use a GPSDO as an external
reference, will this multiplying/dithering allow me to use the same
GPSDO (divided down to PPS) on either the START or STOP inputs? If
not, then how about using a different GPSDO as the external reference?
Or even an FE5680A rubidium?

If I read the specs correctly, using T.I. averaging on the 5328A, a
1000 s average should get me 100 ps resolution? With this particular
instrument, what is the best, useful resolution I can expect?

Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] Arduino GPIB

2015-01-11 Thread Joseph Gray
I thought everyone here would find this of interest. I stumbled across it a
few days ago on the 'net. It is a Prologix GPIB-USB compatible made with an
Arduino Uno.

http://egirland.blogspot.com/2014/03/arduino-uno-as-usb-to-gpib-controller.html

Like on his web site, I just took a cheap GPIB cable, cut off about 12
inches and shoved the wires into the socket holes on an Uno. I uploaded his
program and did some minor testing so far. BTW, it didn't work the first
time due to poor contact. I shoved some pin headers in, after the wires and
now it works fine.

John's Prologix config program works just fine with this cobbled together
GPIB adapter. I attached it to my HP 3457A and then ran the demo program
that comes with Ulrich's EZGPIB. It is logging data as I type this. I will
do more testing with other instruments, as I have time.

As mentioned on the web page linked above, a few commands are not yet
implemented, although they appear to be little used commands (except
perhaps the ++savecfg command). I think I have a way to implement the ++rst
command using the watchdog timer. For ++savecfg, it shouldn't be too
difficult to store things in the Arduino EEPROM.

I have some cheap Arduino Nano's and PCB-mount GPIB connectors on order. I
will be making a couple of these Proligix-compatible adapters with those
parts, so that they aren't just wires shoved into a board. I'll have to
find a small box to house things. I have also ordered some buffer chips to
add to the design. Total cost should be under $20 for each adapter.

The firmware uses a serial baud rate of 115200, which I assume is the same
as a real Prologix. I'm going to try some higher baud rates to see how fast
the Arduino can push bits without losing them. I understand that with the
default 16 MHz clock, non-standard baud rates that are evenly divisible
into the clock rate should work even better I'll report back.

One question about the baud rate - are there any reasons not to change from
115200? Since we are simply moving bits through a USB/Serial adapter, does
any software really care what the baud rate is, as long as we don't drop
any bits?

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Any reason not to use one power amplifier and splitter for distribution amplifier?

2015-01-03 Thread Joseph Gray
My 2 cents. I just repurposed an RGB video distribution amp for use
with a rubidium. The board has three EL2070 (200 MHz BW) amps, each
one feeds several BNC jacks for RGB output. I only need three
separate, isolated outputs, so I am feeding the rubidium into all
three EL2070's and only taking one output from each chip, via an
isolation transformer.

This seems to be working just fine for my intended purpose. I still
need to add the DDS and a few other items to the box to complete the
project.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 8:37 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Dave
 I am sure there will be many answers. But yes indeed it will work fine. All
 of the outputs should have the same delay also and that may be useful.

 There really are the two approaches. The big power amp thats a 1/2 Watt you
 are talking and the many small amps as in the distributed mode.

 Whats interesting is the telcos always do the big amp splitter and the test
 equipment manufactures use precision distributed distribution amps. I guess
 its a pick your poison. Or maybe the test equipment manufacturers needed
 more isolation port to port. Or heavens maybe they could just sell them for
 more money. Would they do that?
 Humor aside each has a very good reason for doing the distribution and its
 driven by the requirements.

 I have several of those spitters and picked them up for $ 0 at hamfests.
 Seems no one had a use for them when all of the 900 Mhz gear came out of
 the sites. Mostly gone at this point. A 1/2 watt 10 Mhz amp is not that
 hard to build look at the many Ham sites we have a band close to 10 Mhz/ 30
 Meter.
 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL

 On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) 
 drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk wrote:

 I was looking to make a 10 MHz distribution amp to feed test equipment with
 the output of a GPSDO.

 I see this

 http://m.ebay.com/itm/201244302355

 16-way Minicircuits splitter on eBay which I got for $40. I guess the loss
 is around 12 dB.

 I actually bought another for $35 which was similar but  one of them, the
 isolation data made no sense,  so given their low cost I just bought both.

 I suspect internally these 16 way units might have a pair of 8 way dividers
 as there are two isolation figures,  depending on what ports one is
 measuring between

 Is there any reason not to just drive that with 22 dBm or so of power to
 get 10 dBm at each of 16 ports?

 Is 10 dBm an optimal value?

 I see several distribution amp designs witb one amplifier on each output,
 but is it just a lot less hassle to split a higher power amp.

 I have a range of Minicircuits amps in my junk box in little enclosures,
 which means a distribution amp can be built from just 3 main components

 * PSU
 * Power amplifier
 * 16 way splitter.

 That seems a *lot* simpler than many designs I see.

 I was looking to feed it with an HP 58503A or similar device.

 I do have an amplifier in my junk box which will produce 27 dBm. If I
 combined that with 16 x 5 dB attenuators I could improve the isolation by
 10 dB, but I am unlikely to find the attenuators cheaply, and buying new
 would add at least $200-$300 to the price, for what I suspect is no
 significant benefit.

 Dave
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Re: [time-nuts] Which First GPSDO to buy?

2014-12-14 Thread Joseph Gray
I don't mean to one up Chris, but if you are looking for
inexpensive, I have bought the same Pro Mini from this seller for
$2.58. Like Chris says, you can't buy the parts this for this.

And if you need the 3.3 VDC version: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191182699659

I bought six of the Pro Mini's from this seller and every one tested
OK. I have also bought other items from this seller. I have no
complaints.

One thing to be aware of when looking for the Pro Mini boards. There
are at least three slightly different versions. At least one of them
has the serial programming pins on one end reversed. The board that
Chris and I have linked to are the exact same thing that SparkFun
sells. I believe it is the version 2.0 board. You can recognize it not
only by the serial programming pinout, but it also has the two pairs
of extra holes next to the chip. Those are A4/A5 and A6/A7.

Just as an aside, although it is often true that many of these Chinese
vendors sell ripoff copies of things, in this case, the Pro Mini
design is open source hardware, so it is legitimate for the Chinese or
anyone else to make and sell them.


Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Chris Albertson
albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote:
 It's not worth making a PCB, not when you can buy the whole thing already
 assembled for $3 with free shipping.  I use these just as if they where a
 single chip and put them in a socket.  See eBay 141505833625 as an example.
   Those holes are in 0.1 inch centers so you can figure out the size. (I
 get 1.3 inches long.)  direct link
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARDUINO-PRO-MINI-Nano-Pro-Mini-atmega328-Compatible-Nano-5V-16M-/141505833625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item20f267aa99

 I'll write up what I built.  It would be good to see the range of these.  I
 tried to make mine as simple an low cost as possible without regard to
 anything else.  Just to find the bottom line.  I doubt I would have met
 that gaol by using a bare AVR chip.  That is NOT simple because it requires
 so much more skill from the builder and with an entire working Arduino
 selling for $3 how much could you save?  Actually the chips on that $3
 board cost more than $3. (I don't even see how shipping from China can be
 that cheap.)

 On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 10:56 PM, Patrick Tudor ptu...@ptudor.net wrote:


  On Dec 13, 2014, at 9:47 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Actually I've added  some features to it like a 2 line by 16 character
 LCD
  display and some status LEDs.  And I can log data to a computer via a USB
  cable so it is easy to plot data and it is using my more expansive mast
  mounted timing antenna.


 Just in case any of you like reading Arduino code, for fun or functions to
 copy-and-paste,
 the code for my PCB that combines an ATMega328p with an Adafruit GPS and
 16x2 LCD to display GPS info as it sends the PPS out the DB9 DCD is at
 GitHub.
 It's not exactly, say, measuring oscillator cycles (yet... ) but it's
 perhaps
 a good introduction for someone who's never ever before used anything
 Arduino.
 (And now that I've done more PCBs with Cypress and FTDI chips, I wish I'd
 put
 that straight on my board instead of as a future daughterboard, but,
 feature creep.)

 https://github.com/ptudor/jemma-clock

 PT
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 --

 Chris Albertson
 Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Which First GPSDO to buy?

2014-12-14 Thread Joseph Gray
I have to watch what I'm typing a little closer. I meant to say You
can't buy the parts this cheap.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Chris Albertson
albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote:
 It's not worth making a PCB, not when you can buy the whole thing already
 assembled for $3 with free shipping.  I use these just as if they where a
 single chip and put them in a socket.  See eBay 141505833625 as an example.
   Those holes are in 0.1 inch centers so you can figure out the size. (I
 get 1.3 inches long.)  direct link
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARDUINO-PRO-MINI-Nano-Pro-Mini-atmega328-Compatible-Nano-5V-16M-/141505833625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item20f267aa99

 I'll write up what I built.  It would be good to see the range of these.  I
 tried to make mine as simple an low cost as possible without regard to
 anything else.  Just to find the bottom line.  I doubt I would have met
 that gaol by using a bare AVR chip.  That is NOT simple because it requires
 so much more skill from the builder and with an entire working Arduino
 selling for $3 how much could you save?  Actually the chips on that $3
 board cost more than $3. (I don't even see how shipping from China can be
 that cheap.)

 On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 10:56 PM, Patrick Tudor ptu...@ptudor.net wrote:


  On Dec 13, 2014, at 9:47 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Actually I've added  some features to it like a 2 line by 16 character
 LCD
  display and some status LEDs.  And I can log data to a computer via a USB
  cable so it is easy to plot data and it is using my more expansive mast
  mounted timing antenna.


 Just in case any of you like reading Arduino code, for fun or functions to
 copy-and-paste,
 the code for my PCB that combines an ATMega328p with an Adafruit GPS and
 16x2 LCD to display GPS info as it sends the PPS out the DB9 DCD is at
 GitHub.
 It's not exactly, say, measuring oscillator cycles (yet... ) but it's
 perhaps
 a good introduction for someone who's never ever before used anything
 Arduino.
 (And now that I've done more PCBs with Cypress and FTDI chips, I wish I'd
 put
 that straight on my board instead of as a future daughterboard, but,
 feature creep.)

 https://github.com/ptudor/jemma-clock

 PT
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 --

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 Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 quirk

2014-12-13 Thread Joseph Gray
I haven't checked the PPS yet, but the 15 MHz from the standby unit is
off on my setup.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 9:55 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
 Can somebody confirm that the PPS and 15 MHz on the standby unit are disabled?

 Does anybody understand how/why they do things that way?  Is that a typical
 Telco interface?


 If anybody is poking around inside and find a simple way to turn them back
 on, please share.


 The PPS is 400 microseconds wide.


 --
 These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] Which First GPSDO to buy?

2014-12-13 Thread Joseph Gray
Do you have the details on your stripped down version posted somewhere
accessable?

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Chris Albertson
albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote:
 I tried to see just how simple, low cost and self contained I could make a
 GPSDO.  I started with the Lars Walenius design then removed everything I
 could from it.  I replace all the software with just a small loop with
 about a dozen lines of code so it would be easy to understand.

 My goal was to make something that could be built and tested using just
 basic equipment.  The question is of course How do you know the unit is
 making a 10 MHz signal if you don't already have a 10MHz reference to
 compare it to?  Well you can assume that your 1PPS reference is accurate.
 Then you count and make sure you see EXACTLY 10,000,000 oscillator cycles
 per each PPS.  Count both for a few days and verify the ratio remains at
 ten million to one, exactly.  I ran mine for about 8 weeks and it stays at
 the desired ratio.I know this is not a perfect test because it could
 have been running at zero hertz for 30 seconds and then 20MHz for 30
 seconds but I assume the OCXO is better than that.   The point is that once
 you have the GPS working you DO have a  pretty good 1Hz reference.

 Cost:
 Motorola Oncore GPS$18
 magnnetic patch antenna   6
 OCXO (eBay)   19
 Arduino, mini  3
 PLL chip 2
 TTL diver chip1
 Plug-in power cube0
 perf-board  1

 Total cost of GPSDO $50

 Actually I do have A Thunderbolt.  I place the 10MHz output of the above
 unit and the TB on my dual channel scope and was able to see the phase of
 the two 10MHz references was locked.  I saw the phase drift over about an
 hour but then it would pull back.   But I made this very simple and it
 could be better.

 Actually I've added  some features to it like a 2 line by 16 character LCD
 display and some status LEDs.  And I can log data to a computer via a USB
 cable so it is easy to plot data and it is using my more expansive mast
 mounted timing antenna.

 The Arduino based design is OK for controlling an OCXO but I think it is
 best used for controlling my Rubidium oscillator.  The RB is so stable I
 should only update the frequency control every few hours at most.

 On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Jim Harman j99har...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 9:36 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:

  The problem with build it yourself is that there is no way do know if
  you got it right unless you have something to compare your design to. You
  *will* make mistakes as you build one of these


 I think you will have the same problem with an off-the-shelf unit if you
 don't have at least one reference for comparison. However speaking from
 experience with Lars Walenius' Arduino-based design, I can say that it is
 not hard to make a working system, even without another reference. Along
 the way you will learn a tremendous amount about how these systems work,
 plus a lot about Arduino programming.

 Lars' design will run stand-alone, but if you want it can send very useful
 logging data to a PC, much more informative than a locked led on a
 commercial unit.

 Total cost including processor, Adafruit GPS shield, and $25.00 ebay OCXO
 is about $100.00


 --

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 Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Another GPSDO

2014-12-12 Thread Joseph Gray
Just an update.

I found that I didn't have another 24 VDC supply, so Mouser to the
rescue. The supply arrived today.

I just finished wiring everything up and setting the Lucent boxes next
to my Z3801A. When I ordered the Lucent, I also ordered an HP antenna
splitter (shouldn't have sold the one I had, years ago).

It took 13 minutes from powerup to get the On and STBY lights on. I
get a 10 MHz square wave and a 15 MHz sine wave out of REF 0.

I just did a couple of quick measurements with my scope triggering on
the Z3801A. The 10 MHz from REF 0 was initially low by 1.66e-10. Ten
minutes later, it is 2.77e-10 high.


Joe Gray
W5JG


On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 5:05 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
 Hi

 The antenna connectors on the front of the KS box are TNC's  

 Bob

 On Dec 9, 2014, at 9:13 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote:

 Paul,

 Thanks for the info. I have been following most of the discussion on
 these units. I have even saved several posts, so that I could
 reference them once I had one of these.

 I do plan on letting it cook for quite some time. I will certainly
 check it via serial port to make sure everything is OK before the 30
 day warranty is up.

 I just dug up some SMA to BNC pigtails I still need to find a 24 VDC
 supply (I think I have one), make a power cable, move some things to
 make a space for this thing, etc.

 Joe Gray
 W5JG


 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 6:22 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Joe since the lucents are most likely NOS you will need to let it cook in
 30 days. I now have two units and they do match up well to the 3801. But
 they did need to age. Just a heads up.
 It is nice to see them line up pretty well.
 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote:

 I think I have finally graduated to Junior Time Nut. I now have three
 GPSDO's. The trusty Z3801A I have had for years. The LTE-Lite is
 recent. The Lucent 2-box unit just arrived today. Maybe I'll finally
 know what time it is :-)

 This Lucent is much smaller than I thought it would be. Slightly wider
 than the Z3801A, but much shorter. Smaller is good.

 Now I need to find a 24 VDC supply and an empty space to put the new GPSDO.


 Joe Gray
 W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Another GPSDO

2014-12-12 Thread Joseph Gray
Yes, I have seen it reverse a few times already. My Z3801A has been on
since my last move, about 1.5 years ago. I plan on leaving the Lucent
on as well.

Sometime soon, I'm going to buy, build, trade, whatever some better
means of measuring these standards against each other. The DMTD
project that Bert is working on and that was reported here some time
ago sounds interesting. I am in the middle of some other things now,
but when I have time, I want to investigate that option further.

Let's see, three GPSDO's, two rubidiums, five OCXO's, four frequency
counters - it looks like there is no hope for me :-)


Joe Gray
W5JG


On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
 Hi

 If you watch the Lucent vs the 3801 as it warms up, it chugs back and forth 
 for the first 24 hours or so as it settles in. If you shut down the 3801 for 
 a week or so, you can watch it do the same thing (now compared to the Lucent) 
 as it warms up.

 Best to leave all theses OCXO based boxes on all the time.

 Bob

 On Dec 12, 2014, at 9:17 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote:

 Just an update.

 I found that I didn't have another 24 VDC supply, so Mouser to the
 rescue. The supply arrived today.

 I just finished wiring everything up and setting the Lucent boxes next
 to my Z3801A. When I ordered the Lucent, I also ordered an HP antenna
 splitter (shouldn't have sold the one I had, years ago).

 It took 13 minutes from powerup to get the On and STBY lights on. I
 get a 10 MHz square wave and a 15 MHz sine wave out of REF 0.

 I just did a couple of quick measurements with my scope triggering on
 the Z3801A. The 10 MHz from REF 0 was initially low by 1.66e-10. Ten
 minutes later, it is 2.77e-10 high.


 Joe Gray
 W5JG


 On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 5:05 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
 Hi

 The antenna connectors on the front of the KS box are TNC's  

 Bob

 On Dec 9, 2014, at 9:13 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote:

 Paul,

 Thanks for the info. I have been following most of the discussion on
 these units. I have even saved several posts, so that I could
 reference them once I had one of these.

 I do plan on letting it cook for quite some time. I will certainly
 check it via serial port to make sure everything is OK before the 30
 day warranty is up.

 I just dug up some SMA to BNC pigtails I still need to find a 24 VDC
 supply (I think I have one), make a power cable, move some things to
 make a space for this thing, etc.

 Joe Gray
 W5JG


 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 6:22 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Joe since the lucents are most likely NOS you will need to let it cook in
 30 days. I now have two units and they do match up well to the 3801. But
 they did need to age. Just a heads up.
 It is nice to see them line up pretty well.
 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote:

 I think I have finally graduated to Junior Time Nut. I now have three
 GPSDO's. The trusty Z3801A I have had for years. The LTE-Lite is
 recent. The Lucent 2-box unit just arrived today. Maybe I'll finally
 know what time it is :-)

 This Lucent is much smaller than I thought it would be. Slightly wider
 than the Z3801A, but much shorter. Smaller is good.

 Now I need to find a 24 VDC supply and an empty space to put the new 
 GPSDO.


 Joe Gray
 W5JG
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[time-nuts] Another GPSDO

2014-12-09 Thread Joseph Gray
I think I have finally graduated to Junior Time Nut. I now have three
GPSDO's. The trusty Z3801A I have had for years. The LTE-Lite is
recent. The Lucent 2-box unit just arrived today. Maybe I'll finally
know what time it is :-)

This Lucent is much smaller than I thought it would be. Slightly wider
than the Z3801A, but much shorter. Smaller is good.

Now I need to find a 24 VDC supply and an empty space to put the new GPSDO.


Joe Gray
W5JG
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[time-nuts] Nortel Trimble GPSDO

2014-12-09 Thread Joseph Gray
Did I miss the discussion, or hasn't anyone mentioned this unit on
ebay? With a timing antenna, it looks like a good deal.

Nortel Trimble NTBW50AA GPSTM 10MHz Oscillator GPSDO + Antenna Acc. Thunderbolt
Item 301424570443


Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] Another GPSDO

2014-12-09 Thread Joseph Gray
Paul,

Thanks for the info. I have been following most of the discussion on
these units. I have even saved several posts, so that I could
reference them once I had one of these.

I do plan on letting it cook for quite some time. I will certainly
check it via serial port to make sure everything is OK before the 30
day warranty is up.

I just dug up some SMA to BNC pigtails I still need to find a 24 VDC
supply (I think I have one), make a power cable, move some things to
make a space for this thing, etc.

Joe Gray
W5JG


On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 6:22 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Joe since the lucents are most likely NOS you will need to let it cook in
 30 days. I now have two units and they do match up well to the 3801. But
 they did need to age. Just a heads up.
 It is nice to see them line up pretty well.
 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote:

 I think I have finally graduated to Junior Time Nut. I now have three
 GPSDO's. The trusty Z3801A I have had for years. The LTE-Lite is
 recent. The Lucent 2-box unit just arrived today. Maybe I'll finally
 know what time it is :-)

 This Lucent is much smaller than I thought it would be. Slightly wider
 than the Z3801A, but much shorter. Smaller is good.

 Now I need to find a 24 VDC supply and an empty space to put the new GPSDO.


 Joe Gray
 W5JG
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