Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Didier Juges]

I am out of town but will be back over the week end. All uploads will be sorted 
by then.

Didier KO4BB


On October 11, 2016 1:54:06 PM EDT, Francesco Messineo 
 wrote:
>1818-2295A dump has been uploaded to ko4bb site, probably there's need
>to be moved in the right place before it's available.
>
>On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Francesco Messineo
> wrote:
>> Hi Dave,
>> right, once I find the dumps, I'll upload them.
>> thanks
>> Frank IZ8DWF
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Artek Manuals
> wrote:
>>> Frank
>>>
>>> One of the best places to store ROM dumps for easy access by everyon
>is
>>> KO4BB.com
>>>
>>> Dave
>>> NR1DX
>>> dit dit
>>>
>>> On 10/10/2016 3:20 AM, Francesco Messineo wrote:

 I have a dump of the 1818-2295A somewhere, it should be archived in
 one of my backups. I also made a replacement with a board having 2
>x
 28C64 SO-28 eeproms and it worked in my 59309A as far as I could
>test
 it. However these eeproms present many glitches on the outputs
>during
 address toggling, so it's way better to use a suitable CPLD after
 recovering the equations (I'm a bit stuck on this project due to
>lack
 of time...).
 If someone needs the dump, just let me know and I'll dig it out.
 HTH
 Frank IZ8DWF
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave
>>> manu...@artekmanuals.com
>>> www.ArtekManuals.com
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Jeremy Nichols]

Interested if no one has already spoken got the HP59309.

Jeremy
N6WFO


On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Bert Kehren via time-nuts 
wrote:

> Cleaning up I ran across today a HP59309, if some one is interested please
> contact me off list before I put it on ebay.
> Bert Kehren
>
>
> In a message dated 10/11/2016 1:54:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> francesco.messi...@gmail.com  writes:
>
> 1818-2295A dump has been uploaded to ko4bb site, probably there's  need
> to be moved in the right place before it's available.
>
> On Mon,  Oct 10, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Francesco  Messineo
> > wrote:
> > Hi  Dave,
> > right, once I find the dumps, I'll upload them.
> >  thanks
> > Frank IZ8DWF
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:24 AM,  Artek Manuals
> > wrote:
> >>  Frank
> >>
> >> One of the best places to store ROM dumps for  easy access by everyon is
> >> KO4BB.com
> >>
> >>  Dave
> >> NR1DX
> >> dit dit
> >>
> >> On  10/10/2016 3:20 AM, Francesco Messineo wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  I have a dump of the 1818-2295A somewhere, it should be archived  in
> >>> one of my backups. I also made a replacement with a board  having 2 x
> >>> 28C64 SO-28 eeproms and it worked in my 59309A as  far as I could test
> >>> it. However these eeproms present many  glitches on the outputs during
> >>> address toggling, so it's way  better to use a suitable CPLD after
> >>> recovering the equations  (I'm a bit stuck on this project due to lack
> >>> of  time...).
> >>> If someone needs the dump, just let me know and I'll  dig it out.
> >>> HTH
> >>> Frank  IZ8DWF
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>  Dave
> >> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> >>  www.ArtekManuals.com
> >>  ___
> >> time-nuts mailing  list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow  the instructions  there.
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Bert Kehren via time-nuts]

Cleaning up I ran across today a HP59309, if some one is interested please  
contact me off list before I put it on ebay.
Bert Kehren
 
 
In a message dated 10/11/2016 1:54:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
francesco.messi...@gmail.com writes:

1818-2295A dump has been uploaded to ko4bb site, probably there's  need
to be moved in the right place before it's available.

On Mon,  Oct 10, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Francesco  Messineo
 wrote:
> Hi  Dave,
> right, once I find the dumps, I'll upload them.
>  thanks
> Frank IZ8DWF
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:24 AM,  Artek Manuals 
 wrote:
>>  Frank
>>
>> One of the best places to store ROM dumps for  easy access by everyon is
>> KO4BB.com
>>
>>  Dave
>> NR1DX
>> dit dit
>>
>> On  10/10/2016 3:20 AM, Francesco Messineo wrote:
>>>
>>>  I have a dump of the 1818-2295A somewhere, it should be archived  in
>>> one of my backups. I also made a replacement with a board  having 2 x
>>> 28C64 SO-28 eeproms and it worked in my 59309A as  far as I could test
>>> it. However these eeproms present many  glitches on the outputs during
>>> address toggling, so it's way  better to use a suitable CPLD after
>>> recovering the equations  (I'm a bit stuck on this project due to lack
>>> of  time...).
>>> If someone needs the dump, just let me know and I'll  dig it out.
>>> HTH
>>> Frank  IZ8DWF
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  Dave
>> manu...@artekmanuals.com
>>  www.ArtekManuals.com
>>  ___
>> time-nuts mailing  list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow  the instructions  there.
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Francesco Messineo]

1818-2295A dump has been uploaded to ko4bb site, probably there's need
to be moved in the right place before it's available.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Francesco Messineo
 wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> right, once I find the dumps, I'll upload them.
> thanks
> Frank IZ8DWF
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Artek Manuals  
> wrote:
>> Frank
>>
>> One of the best places to store ROM dumps for easy access by everyon is
>> KO4BB.com
>>
>> Dave
>> NR1DX
>> dit dit
>>
>> On 10/10/2016 3:20 AM, Francesco Messineo wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a dump of the 1818-2295A somewhere, it should be archived in
>>> one of my backups. I also made a replacement with a board having 2 x
>>> 28C64 SO-28 eeproms and it worked in my 59309A as far as I could test
>>> it. However these eeproms present many glitches on the outputs during
>>> address toggling, so it's way better to use a suitable CPLD after
>>> recovering the equations (I'm a bit stuck on this project due to lack
>>> of time...).
>>> If someone needs the dump, just let me know and I'll dig it out.
>>> HTH
>>> Frank IZ8DWF
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>> manu...@artekmanuals.com
>> www.ArtekManuals.com
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Francesco Messineo]

Hi Bob,
I will send you my dump, but you have to wait at least until tomorrow
evening. I'm not near my backups today.
I can confirm that 2 x 28C64 (I used ST parts, so if you can scope
your Atmels for glitch, I would be very much curious to see if they've
the same problem) worked in my 59309A, but for example the same
replacement failed in the 5328A HPIB option state machine (and worked
in the main 5328A state machine...) so it's probably a matter of luck
on the timings and the glitches.
I have already planned a CPLD replacement for these small ROMs, but
really it needs time
to get back the dumps and running each output into the program that
reconstruct the equation, then programming all the 16 equation into a
suitable CPLD, make the PCB, program it and so on...


On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Bob  wrote:
> Hi Francesco,
>
> That's wonderful, I hadn't dreamt that anyone has dumped out that ROM.  If 
> you can find your copy of your good 1818-2295A ROM it would let us avoid 
> trying to fix the bit rot in the one I was able to read, especially as we 
> don't know if the 1818-2295A exactly matches the tables in the user manual.
>
> Just this afternoon I ordered a couple Atmel AT28C64 EEPROMs and a 28 pin DIP 
> header. When the parts arrive I'll try replacing U2 with them.  The original 
> part is 5v signals and the modern parts can ignore the +12 and -2 pins, and 
> of course are erasable.  As the Teensy++ easily reads the HP part, and will 
> read the pin compatible new replacement, it should be possible to have the 
> replacement match the bits in the manual.  At least I'll not have a stuck 
> LOAD pin :)
>
> Agreed about modern fast parts glitching but watching the logic analyzer, it 
> seems the 59309A samples the ROM in a very relaxed manner using the TP2 slow 
> clock, maybe we can get by without a CPLD.
>
> I'll report back after writing and testing EEPROMs*.  Knowing that you had 
> success is a great encouragement.
>
> Hi Paul and Don,
>
> Thank you both *very* much for checking the U2 part number on your clocks.  
> That you both see 1818-2295A is terrific, it means that the ROM version in 
> this clock matches its serial prefix.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob
> N2CJL
>
> * The two main state machines have 8 and 53 states, and with logic analyzer 
> watching the EEPROM it should be possible to follow along.  It is a nice 
> little computer with constant time instructions, 64 bits of RAM.  Each 
> instruction contains a conditional qualifier along with the next address, 
> very 1960s.
>
>
>
>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 12:32 AM, Francesco Messineo 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>> right, once I find the dumps, I'll upload them.
>> thanks
>> Frank IZ8DWF
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Artek Manuals  
>> wrote:
>>> Frank
>>>
>>> One of the best places to store ROM dumps for easy access by everyon is
>>> KO4BB.com
>>>
>>> Dave
>>> NR1DX
>>> dit dit
>>>
>>> On 10/10/2016 3:20 AM, Francesco Messineo wrote:

 I have a dump of the 1818-2295A somewhere, it should be archived in
 one of my backups. I also made a replacement with a board having 2 x
 28C64 SO-28 eeproms and it worked in my 59309A as far as I could test
 it. However these eeproms present many glitches on the outputs during
 address toggling, so it's way better to use a suitable CPLD after
 recovering the equations (I'm a bit stuck on this project due to lack
 of time...).
 If someone needs the dump, just let me know and I'll dig it out.
 HTH
 Frank IZ8DWF
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave
>>> manu...@artekmanuals.com
>>> www.ArtekManuals.com
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Bob]

Hi Francesco,

That's wonderful, I hadn't dreamt that anyone has dumped out that ROM.  If you 
can find your copy of your good 1818-2295A ROM it would let us avoid trying to 
fix the bit rot in the one I was able to read, especially as we don't know if 
the 1818-2295A exactly matches the tables in the user manual.

Just this afternoon I ordered a couple Atmel AT28C64 EEPROMs and a 28 pin DIP 
header. When the parts arrive I'll try replacing U2 with them.  The original 
part is 5v signals and the modern parts can ignore the +12 and -2 pins, and of 
course are erasable.  As the Teensy++ easily reads the HP part, and will read 
the pin compatible new replacement, it should be possible to have the 
replacement match the bits in the manual.  At least I'll not have a stuck LOAD 
pin :)

Agreed about modern fast parts glitching but watching the logic analyzer, it 
seems the 59309A samples the ROM in a very relaxed manner using the TP2 slow 
clock, maybe we can get by without a CPLD.

I'll report back after writing and testing EEPROMs*.  Knowing that you had 
success is a great encouragement.

Hi Paul and Don,

Thank you both *very* much for checking the U2 part number on your clocks.  
That you both see 1818-2295A is terrific, it means that the ROM version in this 
clock matches its serial prefix.

Cheers,

Bob
N2CJL

* The two main state machines have 8 and 53 states, and with logic analyzer 
watching the EEPROM it should be possible to follow along.  It is a nice little 
computer with constant time instructions, 64 bits of RAM.  Each instruction 
contains a conditional qualifier along with the next address, very 1960s.



> On Oct 10, 2016, at 12:32 AM, Francesco Messineo 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> right, once I find the dumps, I'll upload them.
> thanks
> Frank IZ8DWF
> 
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Artek Manuals  
> wrote:
>> Frank
>> 
>> One of the best places to store ROM dumps for easy access by everyon is
>> KO4BB.com
>> 
>> Dave
>> NR1DX
>> dit dit
>> 
>> On 10/10/2016 3:20 AM, Francesco Messineo wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have a dump of the 1818-2295A somewhere, it should be archived in
>>> one of my backups. I also made a replacement with a board having 2 x
>>> 28C64 SO-28 eeproms and it worked in my 59309A as far as I could test
>>> it. However these eeproms present many glitches on the outputs during
>>> address toggling, so it's way better to use a suitable CPLD after
>>> recovering the equations (I'm a bit stuck on this project due to lack
>>> of time...).
>>> If someone needs the dump, just let me know and I'll dig it out.
>>> HTH
>>> Frank IZ8DWF
>> 
>> --
>> Dave
>> manu...@artekmanuals.com
>> www.ArtekManuals.com

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Francesco Messineo]

Hi Dave,
right, once I find the dumps, I'll upload them.
thanks
Frank IZ8DWF

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Artek Manuals  wrote:
> Frank
>
> One of the best places to store ROM dumps for easy access by everyon is
> KO4BB.com
>
> Dave
> NR1DX
> dit dit
>
> On 10/10/2016 3:20 AM, Francesco Messineo wrote:
>>
>> I have a dump of the 1818-2295A somewhere, it should be archived in
>> one of my backups. I also made a replacement with a board having 2 x
>> 28C64 SO-28 eeproms and it worked in my 59309A as far as I could test
>> it. However these eeproms present many glitches on the outputs during
>> address toggling, so it's way better to use a suitable CPLD after
>> recovering the equations (I'm a bit stuck on this project due to lack
>> of time...).
>> If someone needs the dump, just let me know and I'll dig it out.
>> HTH
>> Frank IZ8DWF
>
>
>
> --
> Dave
> manu...@artekmanuals.com
> www.ArtekManuals.com
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Artek Manuals]

Frank

One of the best places to store ROM dumps for easy access by everyon is 
KO4BB.com


Dave
NR1DX
dit dit

On 10/10/2016 3:20 AM, Francesco Messineo wrote:

I have a dump of the 1818-2295A somewhere, it should be archived in
one of my backups. I also made a replacement with a board having 2 x
28C64 SO-28 eeproms and it worked in my 59309A as far as I could test
it. However these eeproms present many glitches on the outputs during
address toggling, so it's way better to use a suitable CPLD after
recovering the equations (I'm a bit stuck on this project due to lack
of time...).
If someone needs the dump, just let me know and I'll dig it out.
HTH
Frank IZ8DWF



--
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manu...@artekmanuals.com
www.ArtekManuals.com
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Francesco Messineo]

I have a dump of the 1818-2295A somewhere, it should be archived in
one of my backups. I also made a replacement with a board having 2 x
28C64 SO-28 eeproms and it worked in my 59309A as far as I could test
it. However these eeproms present many glitches on the outputs during
address toggling, so it's way better to use a suitable CPLD after
recovering the equations (I'm a bit stuck on this project due to lack
of time...).
If someone needs the dump, just let me know and I'll dig it out.
HTH
Frank IZ8DWF

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 5:34 AM, Paul Berger  wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I just looked at the clock I am not using and it is 1818-2295A, it is not
> convenient for me to check the other one as it is running and in a place
> where I would have to disconnect it to get it out.   I could dump this ROM
> for you but it may take me a few days as I have other things on the go right
> now.
>
> Paul.
>
> On 2016-10-09 10:48 PM, Bob wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tom & Paul,
>>
>> Some progress with the HP 59309A clock debug.  Built a ROM reader
>> (Teensy++, a 28 pin WW socket, jumpers) and read out the HP 59309A U2 ROM.
>>
>> Compared the user manual to my readings, found three stuck output bits out
>> of sixteen, and another few dozen assorted differences out of the 4096 ROM
>> bits.
>>
>> Also, while moving U2 to the reader socket I noticed that the chip is
>> stamped 1818-2295A 2335 vs. the schematic which states U2 is a 1818-2193.
>> Perhaps the U2 state machine was updated?
>>
>> The O1 (part of Next Address) bit, O9 (LOAD) bit and O11 (Rout) bit always
>> read 0.  Together those stuck-at-0 bits compose the vast majority of the bit
>> differences.  LOAD being always zero explains why I don't see data written
>> into the RAM when watching with a logic analyzer.
>>
>> I'm 99% sure there is at least some bit rot, in particular there is a long
>> unused block at the end of the Talk Enable = 1 table, where all addresses
>> should match, and in the middle of that range there are just a few wrong
>> bits.
>>
>> A small number of differences exist in other Next Address and Next
>> Qualifier columns, but there are only a few, not easy to tell if they are
>> just changes to the state machine or more bit rot.
>>
>> Digging further, the serial number prefix 2510A is much newer than the
>> 1632A prefix mentioned in the manual I'm looking at, so there could be
>> differences in the schematic.  Not clear if HP change pages up to 2510A
>> exist, I've not found them so far.
>>
>> At this point, I can think of a few paths to take...
>>
>> a) Leave it alone, still works fine as a desk clock, but useless for
>> reading TOD via HP-IB.
>>
>> b) Build a little adapter board and replace U2 with a self-programmed 16
>> bit EPROM or a pair of 8 bit EPROMs.  I could use the code in the manual,
>> buzz out the circuit to validate the schematic, and (if needed) reverse
>> engineer the state machine.
>>
>> Tom and/or Paul, would you consider lifting the cover off your clock (just
>> 2 screws in the back) and peeking at the part number on your U2 chips?
>> That's the 28 pin ceramic ROM in the socket on the A5 board which is the one
>> at the far left looking from the front.  The ROM is at the top of the board
>> and should be visible without touching anything.
>>
>> If someone happens to have a ROM stamped 1818-2295A 2335, it would of
>> course be great to capture the bits, to remove the remaining guesswork in
>> creating a replacement image.  Naturally, I checked the ROMs on Didier's
>> site, but didn't see any for the 59309A.
>>
>> In conclusion, reading the U2 ROM shows three stuck bits, including LOAD,
>> which explains what I saw on the logic analyzer.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Paul Berger]

Bob,

I just looked at the clock I am not using and it is 1818-2295A, it is 
not convenient for me to check the other one as it is running and in a 
place where I would have to disconnect it to get it out.   I could dump 
this ROM for you but it may take me a few days as I have other things on 
the go right now.


Paul.

On 2016-10-09 10:48 PM, Bob wrote:

Hi Tom & Paul,

Some progress with the HP 59309A clock debug.  Built a ROM reader (Teensy++, a 
28 pin WW socket, jumpers) and read out the HP 59309A U2 ROM.

Compared the user manual to my readings, found three stuck output bits out of 
sixteen, and another few dozen assorted differences out of the 4096 ROM bits.

Also, while moving U2 to the reader socket I noticed that the chip is stamped 
1818-2295A 2335 vs. the schematic which states U2 is a 1818-2193.  Perhaps the 
U2 state machine was updated?

The O1 (part of Next Address) bit, O9 (LOAD) bit and O11 (Rout) bit always read 
0.  Together those stuck-at-0 bits compose the vast majority of the bit 
differences.  LOAD being always zero explains why I don't see data written into 
the RAM when watching with a logic analyzer.

I'm 99% sure there is at least some bit rot, in particular there is a long 
unused block at the end of the Talk Enable = 1 table, where all addresses 
should match, and in the middle of that range there are just a few wrong bits.

A small number of differences exist in other Next Address and Next Qualifier 
columns, but there are only a few, not easy to tell if they are just changes to 
the state machine or more bit rot.

Digging further, the serial number prefix 2510A is much newer than the 1632A 
prefix mentioned in the manual I'm looking at, so there could be differences in 
the schematic.  Not clear if HP change pages up to 2510A exist, I've not found 
them so far.

At this point, I can think of a few paths to take...

a) Leave it alone, still works fine as a desk clock, but useless for reading 
TOD via HP-IB.

b) Build a little adapter board and replace U2 with a self-programmed 16 bit 
EPROM or a pair of 8 bit EPROMs.  I could use the code in the manual, buzz out 
the circuit to validate the schematic, and (if needed) reverse engineer the 
state machine.

Tom and/or Paul, would you consider lifting the cover off your clock (just 2 
screws in the back) and peeking at the part number on your U2 chips?  That's 
the 28 pin ceramic ROM in the socket on the A5 board which is the one at the 
far left looking from the front.  The ROM is at the top of the board and should 
be visible without touching anything.

If someone happens to have a ROM stamped 1818-2295A 2335, it would of course be 
great to capture the bits, to remove the remaining guesswork in creating a 
replacement image.  Naturally, I checked the ROMs on Didier's site, but didn't 
see any for the 59309A.

In conclusion, reading the U2 ROM shows three stuck bits, including LOAD, which 
explains what I saw on the logic analyzer.

Cheers,

Bob




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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[djl]

ou a known working 59309A so you can 
tell if the problem is with your PC, your Python tool, your Prologix, 
or your 59309A.


/tvb

- Original Message -
From: "Bob" <b...@marinelli.org>
To: "TimeNuts" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB 
output?



I'd like to ask the HP 59309A owners on time-nuts if the following 
symptoms sound familiar, and if so, what would the fix be?


o New-to-me HP 59309A clock.
o Late build, 1985 date code on many parts.
o I replaced the big 1900 uF electrolytic before plugging it in.
o Visual inspection very clean, no corrosion, no battery.
o 12v reads 13.1v, 5v reads 5.3v, -2v reads -2.9v.
o Front panel switches and buttons all work as expected.
o Internal and external osc. both work as expected.
o Internal "format" switch set to  i.e. comma, cal, no space.
o GPIB works to *set* the time, using Prologix Ethernet adapter.
o Prologix Ethernet adapter attached directly to the clock, no cables.
o Python code to set via GPIB attached below.
o Setting time via GPIB always works, tried many times.
o Reading time has never worked.  All I get is lots of ASCII 
444...

o Reading with Prologix ++read command
o Switches set to 1100010 i.e. Listen, ADDR 2 for normal operation
o Tried switches as 010 i.e. Talk Only, also resulted in 
continuous 444...

o Tried very long delays between every GPIB command, no change.
o Tried removing top cover and running a fan to bring entire clock to 
21C, no change.
o Tried gently reseating the four boards and three socketed PROMS, no 
change.


Thanks to TVB for hp59309.c sample Windows Prologix USB code.  I based 
the Python Ethernet code on TVB, to read from the clock he sends 
command C and then ++read.  When I do that all I get are a zillion 
0x34 '4' characters.


Seems strange that all the GPIB commands work.  I tried R reset, P 
pause T resume D day H hour M minute S second manually and they all 
work just fine.  I have never been able to read anything reasonable 
though.


As to the Prologix Ethernet adapter, I believe it is working OK 
electrically as I have been using it for weeks at a time reading PPS 
time intervals from a trusty HP 5334B counter, the adapter has read 
hundreds of thousands times from the 5334B.


Is there a trick to using the Prologix to read from the 59309A?

I did notice that the 59309A has at least one trick - in TVB's code 
where he reads the Prologix settings and only writes them if they need 
to be changed, that is actually required(!).  Just writing them every 
time seems to put the adapter into a strange state.


Page 4-2 of the 59309A manual seems to imply that the "Output State 
Machine" generates the GPIB output messages, using input from the 
"Data Memory".  AFAICT, those two functional blocks are the only ones 
that are not working for me.


I think A4U18 ROM is OK as it handles GPIB command decoding and R P T 
D H M S commands all work.


A5U15 appears to do the ASCII encoding for SP, CR, LF, ", : so it may 
or may not be OK.


A5U2 is described as "STATE MACHINE ROM (A5U2). This 4K ROM controls 
the operation of the circuits that develop the talk output of the 
59309A."  Has anyone experienced failure of this ROM, and do the 
symptoms match what I'm seeing?


This is a lovely clock, and while I can't actually think of a reason 
to *need* the GPIB time output, I'd still like to fix it.


Cheers,

Bob Marinelli



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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Bob]

Hi Tom & Paul,

Some progress with the HP 59309A clock debug.  Built a ROM reader (Teensy++, a 
28 pin WW socket, jumpers) and read out the HP 59309A U2 ROM.

Compared the user manual to my readings, found three stuck output bits out of 
sixteen, and another few dozen assorted differences out of the 4096 ROM bits.

Also, while moving U2 to the reader socket I noticed that the chip is stamped 
1818-2295A 2335 vs. the schematic which states U2 is a 1818-2193.  Perhaps the 
U2 state machine was updated?

The O1 (part of Next Address) bit, O9 (LOAD) bit and O11 (Rout) bit always read 
0.  Together those stuck-at-0 bits compose the vast majority of the bit 
differences.  LOAD being always zero explains why I don't see data written into 
the RAM when watching with a logic analyzer.

I'm 99% sure there is at least some bit rot, in particular there is a long 
unused block at the end of the Talk Enable = 1 table, where all addresses 
should match, and in the middle of that range there are just a few wrong bits.

A small number of differences exist in other Next Address and Next Qualifier 
columns, but there are only a few, not easy to tell if they are just changes to 
the state machine or more bit rot.

Digging further, the serial number prefix 2510A is much newer than the 1632A 
prefix mentioned in the manual I'm looking at, so there could be differences in 
the schematic.  Not clear if HP change pages up to 2510A exist, I've not found 
them so far.

At this point, I can think of a few paths to take...

a) Leave it alone, still works fine as a desk clock, but useless for reading 
TOD via HP-IB.

b) Build a little adapter board and replace U2 with a self-programmed 16 bit 
EPROM or a pair of 8 bit EPROMs.  I could use the code in the manual, buzz out 
the circuit to validate the schematic, and (if needed) reverse engineer the 
state machine.

Tom and/or Paul, would you consider lifting the cover off your clock (just 2 
screws in the back) and peeking at the part number on your U2 chips?  That's 
the 28 pin ceramic ROM in the socket on the A5 board which is the one at the 
far left looking from the front.  The ROM is at the top of the board and should 
be visible without touching anything.

If someone happens to have a ROM stamped 1818-2295A 2335, it would of course be 
great to capture the bits, to remove the remaining guesswork in creating a 
replacement image.  Naturally, I checked the ROMs on Didier's site, but didn't 
see any for the 59309A.

In conclusion, reading the U2 ROM shows three stuck bits, including LOAD, which 
explains what I saw on the logic analyzer.

Cheers,

Bob

> On Oct 7, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> Yes, the hp 59309A is a wonderful little LED clock. I just re-tested the 
> program I wrote to read/write the time and it still works.
> 
> For others that are wondering, the code is at 
> http://leapsecond.com/tools/hp59309.c and a Win32 exe is there too.
> 
> Anyway, one possible suggestion is for you to use ++read 10 instead of just 
> ++read. The 59309A is an early byte-oriented HP-IB device and the Prologix 
> command set is more meant for line oriented communication (using CR or LF or 
> EOI for termination). So when I use ++read10 everything is fine, but ++read, 
> or ++read9 or ++read11 or ++read anything else will cause the Prologix to go 
> into an infinite loop.
> 
> One other idea that may shed light on your problem is to use the /d (debug) 
> option and have a look at the exact communication between the program and the 
> Prologix and the 59309A. Then do the same with your Python code to see if it 
> matches, down to the byte. Again, these vintage HP-IB instruments are 
> wonderfully simple but they don't always take well to things we take for 
> granted these days like extraneous line terminators or spaces or open-ended 
> reads and such. If you really want some fun, use a GPIB bus analyzer.
> 
> Attached is the debug log from my 59309A.
> 
> If all else fails I can send you a known working 59309A so you can tell if 
> the problem is with your PC, your Python tool, your Prologix, or your 59309A.
> 
> /tvb
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bob" <b...@marinelli.org>
> To: "TimeNuts" <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 12:56 PM
> Subject: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?
> 
> 
> I'd like to ask the HP 59309A owners on time-nuts if the following symptoms 
> sound familiar, and if so, what would the fix be?
> 
> o New-to-me HP 59309A clock.
> o Late build, 1985 date code on many parts.
> o I replaced the big 1900 uF electrolytic before plugging it in.
> o Visual inspection very clean, no corrosion, no battery.
> o 12v reads 13.1v, 5v reads 5.3v, -2v reads -2.9v.
> o Front panel switches an

Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Bob]

[combined replies to Paul, Tom, Mark and Pete below]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the helpful suggestions.  Yes, I spent a pleasant afternoon with the 
little 59309A, sides and bottom removed, 0.025 pins soldered on to the RAM, 
other interesting signals, and U2 the ROM.  That makes it easy to pick any 16 
for the Salea logic analyzer, which BTW is super easy to use and perfect for 
this.

The good news is that the HP-IB bus looks fine (when sending commands to the 
clock) and the inputs and outputs for U14 the SN7489N 4x16 RAM look reasonable. 
The RAM ME pin toggles, but the RAM WE pin stays high (never asserted), 
following that back though U10 shows the clock AKA TB2 looks good, but the 
other LOAD input to U10 is never set.  Following LOAD which is AKA TP1 back, we 
get to U4A which is a D-FF, input is pin 2 which has a 10k pullup and is 
sourced from our friendly ROM U2, pin 10.  I have hooked up a dozen of the ROM 
output pins and they all are busy toggling, but pin 10, LOAD never changes.  
So, maybe we are stuck in some strange state due to my not understanding the 
Prologix ++read, or perhaps U2 LOAD bit is not working.

Carefully moved the ROM U2 into anti-static foam, then checked the socket, pin 
10 reads 9.98kOhm to the +5 line, so the socket and pullup per schematic are 
both good.

While reverse engineering this clock, I realized that the entire clock 
including HP-IB remote setting commands will all work perfectly without the U2 
ROM (!).

Tomorrow I will try reading U2, it has eight address lines, sixteen output 
lines, power +12 +5 -2 with a Teensy++ uC to step through the addresses while 
reading the outputs.

Reading U2 seems the most straightforward way to test it.   If the LOAD bit has 
failed, that should be obvious from reading it  Or maybe U2 is good, and I just 
don't understand how LOAD works with RAM while talking.

That's the status so far.  This is a nice device to debug.  Very much the 
opposite of 25 Gbps SerDes debug.

Hi Tom,

Thanks, yes there was a URL link to hp59309.c as the 3rd line in the hp59309.py 
source, so folks could easily find your original code.

After connecting a Salea logic analyzer to the GPIB bus, the traffic looks ok 
right up until I do a ++read 10 which is the first time we put the 59209A into 
TALK mode.  Per your suggestion, I have changed the code to always do ++read 10.

I would have tried hp59309.c with debug flag if I had a Prologix USB adapter.

Hi Tom and Mark,

Thank you both for your very generous offers to test using your known-good 
59309A clocks.

Hi Mark,

If you have the time, it would be informative to try the attached hp59309.py 
with your clock and Prologix Ethernet adapter.  Change line 9 to your adapter 
IP address, and line 12 to your clock HP-IB address.  This version uses Tom's 
suggestion of ++read 10.  It will set the clock, and then try to read the 
clock.  It should finish in a second or two.

Hi Pete,

Yes the -2v reading -2.9v seemed suspicious.  I forced it to -2v and saw no 
change in symptoms.  Also Paul measured the -2v line in his clock and it read 
-3v so while suspicious, not likely the root cause.

Cheers,

Bob

#!/usr/bin/python
# v1.1 Initialize HP 59309A GPIB clock to local time
# Thanks to TVB for http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/hp59309a.c
# For UTC, use datetime.utcnow instead of datetime.now

import datetime, socket, string, sys, time

# IP address of Prologix Controller 
host = "192.168.20.7"

# GPIB address of HP 59309A clock
addr = "2"

# Read one line from Prologix
def gpib_read(s):
  buf = ""
  while (1):
c = s.recv(1)
if not c:
  print "Connection closed"
  sys.exit(1)
if c == '\n':
  return buf
if c != '\r':
  buf = buf+c

# Send one command and EOL to Prologix
def gpib_send(s, cmd):
  s.send(cmd+"\n")

# Send one GPIB command and return reply
def gpib_query(s, cmd):
  gpib_send(s, cmd)
  gpib_send(s, "++read 10")
  return gpib_read(s)

# Send Prologix command and return reply
def prologix_query(s, cmd):
  gpib_send(s, cmd)
  return gpib_read(s)

prologix_cfg = [
  ("++savecfg", "0"),# do not update eeprom
  ("++mode","1"),# device=0 controller=1
  ("++auto","0"),# automatic read-after-write
  ("++eoi", "0"),# disable EOI
  ("++eos", "3"),# 0=CR+LF 1=CR 2=LF 3=none
  ("++read_tmo_ms", "1000"), # set read timeout (milliseconds)
  ("++addr",addr)# user-supplied gpib address
] 

# Initialize Prologix, only change as needed
def prologix_init(s):
  for cmd, val in prologix_cfg:
old = prologix_query(s, cmd)
if old != val:
  gpib_send(s, cmd + " " + val)

# Quiesce Prologix
def prologix_done(s):
  gpib_send(s, "++loc")
  gpib_send(s, "++mode 0")

if __name__ == "__main__":
  s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
  s.settimeout(2)
 
  # Connect to Prologix on port 1234
  try :
s.connect((host, 1234))
  except :
print "Unable to connect to", host
sys.exit(1)

  # Confirm we 

Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Pete Lancashire]

Those voltages look a bit too high. Shoot for setting them to their values
or even a couple percent low.
On Oct 7, 2016 5:27 PM, "Mark Spencer" <m...@alignedsolutions.com> wrote:

> Hi in the (probably unlikely) event another tester would help I have a
> 59309a and a spare prologix gpib / Ethernet adaptor.
>
> I may try this code out at some point in any event.
>
> Best regards
> Mark S
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 7, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > Yes, the hp 59309A is a wonderful little LED clock. I just re-tested the
> program I wrote to read/write the time and it still works.
> >
> > For others that are wondering, the code is at
> http://leapsecond.com/tools/hp59309.c and a Win32 exe is there too.
> >
> > Anyway, one possible suggestion is for you to use ++read 10 instead of
> just ++read. The 59309A is an early byte-oriented HP-IB device and the
> Prologix command set is more meant for line oriented communication (using
> CR or LF or EOI for termination). So when I use ++read10 everything is
> fine, but ++read, or ++read9 or ++read11 or ++read anything else will cause
> the Prologix to go into an infinite loop.
> >
> > One other idea that may shed light on your problem is to use the /d
> (debug) option and have a look at the exact communication between the
> program and the Prologix and the 59309A. Then do the same with your Python
> code to see if it matches, down to the byte. Again, these vintage HP-IB
> instruments are wonderfully simple but they don't always take well to
> things we take for granted these days like extraneous line terminators or
> spaces or open-ended reads and such. If you really want some fun, use a
> GPIB bus analyzer.
> >
> > Attached is the debug log from my 59309A.
> >
> > If all else fails I can send you a known working 59309A so you can tell
> if the problem is with your PC, your Python tool, your Prologix, or your
> 59309A.
> >
> > /tvb
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Bob" <b...@marinelli.org>
> > To: "TimeNuts" <time-nuts@febo.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 12:56 PM
> > Subject: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB
> output?
> >
> >
> > I'd like to ask the HP 59309A owners on time-nuts if the following
> symptoms sound familiar, and if so, what would the fix be?
> >
> > o New-to-me HP 59309A clock.
> > o Late build, 1985 date code on many parts.
> > o I replaced the big 1900 uF electrolytic before plugging it in.
> > o Visual inspection very clean, no corrosion, no battery.
> > o 12v reads 13.1v, 5v reads 5.3v, -2v reads -2.9v.
> > o Front panel switches and buttons all work as expected.
> > o Internal and external osc. both work as expected.
> > o Internal "format" switch set to  i.e. comma, cal, no space.
> > o GPIB works to *set* the time, using Prologix Ethernet adapter.
> > o Prologix Ethernet adapter attached directly to the clock, no cables.
> > o Python code to set via GPIB attached below.
> > o Setting time via GPIB always works, tried many times.
> > o Reading time has never worked.  All I get is lots of ASCII
> 444...
> > o Reading with Prologix ++read command
> > o Switches set to 1100010 i.e. Listen, ADDR 2 for normal operation
> > o Tried switches as 010 i.e. Talk Only, also resulted in continuous
> 444...
> > o Tried very long delays between every GPIB command, no change.
> > o Tried removing top cover and running a fan to bring entire clock to
> 21C, no change.
> > o Tried gently reseating the four boards and three socketed PROMS, no
> change.
> >
> > Thanks to TVB for hp59309.c sample Windows Prologix USB code.  I based
> the Python Ethernet code on TVB, to read from the clock he sends command C
> and then ++read.  When I do that all I get are a zillion 0x34 '4'
> characters.
> >
> > Seems strange that all the GPIB commands work.  I tried R reset, P pause
> T resume D day H hour M minute S second manually and they all work just
> fine.  I have never been able to read anything reasonable though.
> >
> > As to the Prologix Ethernet adapter, I believe it is working OK
> electrically as I have been using it for weeks at a time reading PPS time
> intervals from a trusty HP 5334B counter, the adapter has read hundreds of
> thousands times from the 5334B.
> >
> > Is there a trick to using the Prologix to read from the 59309A?
> >
> > I did notice that the 59309A has at least one trick - in T

Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Mark Spencer]

Hi in the (probably unlikely) event another tester would help I have a 59309a 
and a spare prologix gpib / Ethernet adaptor.   

I may try this code out at some point in any event.

Best regards
Mark S


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 7, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> Yes, the hp 59309A is a wonderful little LED clock. I just re-tested the 
> program I wrote to read/write the time and it still works.
> 
> For others that are wondering, the code is at 
> http://leapsecond.com/tools/hp59309.c and a Win32 exe is there too.
> 
> Anyway, one possible suggestion is for you to use ++read 10 instead of just 
> ++read. The 59309A is an early byte-oriented HP-IB device and the Prologix 
> command set is more meant for line oriented communication (using CR or LF or 
> EOI for termination). So when I use ++read10 everything is fine, but ++read, 
> or ++read9 or ++read11 or ++read anything else will cause the Prologix to go 
> into an infinite loop.
> 
> One other idea that may shed light on your problem is to use the /d (debug) 
> option and have a look at the exact communication between the program and the 
> Prologix and the 59309A. Then do the same with your Python code to see if it 
> matches, down to the byte. Again, these vintage HP-IB instruments are 
> wonderfully simple but they don't always take well to things we take for 
> granted these days like extraneous line terminators or spaces or open-ended 
> reads and such. If you really want some fun, use a GPIB bus analyzer.
> 
> Attached is the debug log from my 59309A.
> 
> If all else fails I can send you a known working 59309A so you can tell if 
> the problem is with your PC, your Python tool, your Prologix, or your 59309A.
> 
> /tvb
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bob" <b...@marinelli.org>
> To: "TimeNuts" <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 12:56 PM
> Subject: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?
> 
> 
> I'd like to ask the HP 59309A owners on time-nuts if the following symptoms 
> sound familiar, and if so, what would the fix be?
> 
> o New-to-me HP 59309A clock.
> o Late build, 1985 date code on many parts.
> o I replaced the big 1900 uF electrolytic before plugging it in.
> o Visual inspection very clean, no corrosion, no battery.
> o 12v reads 13.1v, 5v reads 5.3v, -2v reads -2.9v.
> o Front panel switches and buttons all work as expected.
> o Internal and external osc. both work as expected.
> o Internal "format" switch set to  i.e. comma, cal, no space.
> o GPIB works to *set* the time, using Prologix Ethernet adapter.
> o Prologix Ethernet adapter attached directly to the clock, no cables.
> o Python code to set via GPIB attached below.
> o Setting time via GPIB always works, tried many times.
> o Reading time has never worked.  All I get is lots of ASCII 
> 444...
> o Reading with Prologix ++read command
> o Switches set to 1100010 i.e. Listen, ADDR 2 for normal operation
> o Tried switches as 010 i.e. Talk Only, also resulted in continuous 
> 444...
> o Tried very long delays between every GPIB command, no change.
> o Tried removing top cover and running a fan to bring entire clock to 21C, no 
> change.
> o Tried gently reseating the four boards and three socketed PROMS, no change.
> 
> Thanks to TVB for hp59309.c sample Windows Prologix USB code.  I based the 
> Python Ethernet code on TVB, to read from the clock he sends command C and 
> then ++read.  When I do that all I get are a zillion 0x34 '4' characters.
> 
> Seems strange that all the GPIB commands work.  I tried R reset, P pause T 
> resume D day H hour M minute S second manually and they all work just fine.  
> I have never been able to read anything reasonable though.
> 
> As to the Prologix Ethernet adapter, I believe it is working OK electrically 
> as I have been using it for weeks at a time reading PPS time intervals from a 
> trusty HP 5334B counter, the adapter has read hundreds of thousands times 
> from the 5334B.
> 
> Is there a trick to using the Prologix to read from the 59309A?
> 
> I did notice that the 59309A has at least one trick - in TVB's code where he 
> reads the Prologix settings and only writes them if they need to be changed, 
> that is actually required(!).  Just writing them every time seems to put the 
> adapter into a strange state.
> 
> Page 4-2 of the 59309A manual seems to imply that the "Output State Machine" 
> generates the GPIB output messages, using input from the "Data Memory".  
> AFAICT, those two functional blocks are the only ones that are not working 
> for me.
&

Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Tom Van Baak]

Hi Bob,

Yes, the hp 59309A is a wonderful little LED clock. I just re-tested the 
program I wrote to read/write the time and it still works.

For others that are wondering, the code is at 
http://leapsecond.com/tools/hp59309.c and a Win32 exe is there too.

Anyway, one possible suggestion is for you to use ++read 10 instead of just 
++read. The 59309A is an early byte-oriented HP-IB device and the Prologix 
command set is more meant for line oriented communication (using CR or LF or 
EOI for termination). So when I use ++read10 everything is fine, but ++read, or 
++read9 or ++read11 or ++read anything else will cause the Prologix to go into 
an infinite loop.

One other idea that may shed light on your problem is to use the /d (debug) 
option and have a look at the exact communication between the program and the 
Prologix and the 59309A. Then do the same with your Python code to see if it 
matches, down to the byte. Again, these vintage HP-IB instruments are 
wonderfully simple but they don't always take well to things we take for 
granted these days like extraneous line terminators or spaces or open-ended 
reads and such. If you really want some fun, use a GPIB bus analyzer.

Attached is the debug log from my 59309A.

If all else fails I can send you a known working 59309A so you can tell if the 
problem is with your PC, your Python tool, your Prologix, or your 59309A.

/tvb

- Original Message - 
From: "Bob" <b...@marinelli.org>
To: "TimeNuts" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?


I'd like to ask the HP 59309A owners on time-nuts if the following symptoms 
sound familiar, and if so, what would the fix be?

o New-to-me HP 59309A clock.
o Late build, 1985 date code on many parts.
o I replaced the big 1900 uF electrolytic before plugging it in.
o Visual inspection very clean, no corrosion, no battery.
o 12v reads 13.1v, 5v reads 5.3v, -2v reads -2.9v.
o Front panel switches and buttons all work as expected.
o Internal and external osc. both work as expected.
o Internal "format" switch set to  i.e. comma, cal, no space.
o GPIB works to *set* the time, using Prologix Ethernet adapter.
o Prologix Ethernet adapter attached directly to the clock, no cables.
o Python code to set via GPIB attached below.
o Setting time via GPIB always works, tried many times.
o Reading time has never worked.  All I get is lots of ASCII 
444...
o Reading with Prologix ++read command
o Switches set to 1100010 i.e. Listen, ADDR 2 for normal operation
o Tried switches as 010 i.e. Talk Only, also resulted in continuous 
444...
o Tried very long delays between every GPIB command, no change.
o Tried removing top cover and running a fan to bring entire clock to 21C, no 
change.
o Tried gently reseating the four boards and three socketed PROMS, no change.

Thanks to TVB for hp59309.c sample Windows Prologix USB code.  I based the 
Python Ethernet code on TVB, to read from the clock he sends command C and then 
++read.  When I do that all I get are a zillion 0x34 '4' characters.

Seems strange that all the GPIB commands work.  I tried R reset, P pause T 
resume D day H hour M minute S second manually and they all work just fine.  I 
have never been able to read anything reasonable though.

As to the Prologix Ethernet adapter, I believe it is working OK electrically as 
I have been using it for weeks at a time reading PPS time intervals from a 
trusty HP 5334B counter, the adapter has read hundreds of thousands times from 
the 5334B.

Is there a trick to using the Prologix to read from the 59309A?

I did notice that the 59309A has at least one trick - in TVB's code where he 
reads the Prologix settings and only writes them if they need to be changed, 
that is actually required(!).  Just writing them every time seems to put the 
adapter into a strange state.

Page 4-2 of the 59309A manual seems to imply that the "Output State Machine" 
generates the GPIB output messages, using input from the "Data Memory".  
AFAICT, those two functional blocks are the only ones that are not working for 
me.

I think A4U18 ROM is OK as it handles GPIB command decoding and R P T D H M S 
commands all work.

A5U15 appears to do the ASCII encoding for SP, CR, LF, ", : so it may or may 
not be OK.

A5U2 is described as "STATE MACHINE ROM (A5U2). This 4K ROM controls the 
operation of the circuits that develop the talk output of the 59309A."  Has 
anyone experienced failure of this ROM, and do the symptoms match what I'm 
seeing?

This is a lovely clock, and while I can't actually think of a reason to *need* 
the GPIB time output, I'd still like to fix it.

Cheers,

Bob Marinelli




C:\Tmp>
C:\Tmp>hp59309
Usage: hp59309 [com port] [gpib id] [utc flag]
Example: hp59309 1 05
 hp59309 /t 1 05(timing debug)

Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Paul Berger]

On 2016-10-06 4:56 PM, Bob wrote:

I'd like to ask the HP 59309A owners on time-nuts if the following symptoms 
sound familiar, and if so, what would the fix be?

o New-to-me HP 59309A clock.
o Late build, 1985 date code on many parts.
o I replaced the big 1900 uF electrolytic before plugging it in.
o Visual inspection very clean, no corrosion, no battery.
o 12v reads 13.1v, 5v reads 5.3v, -2v reads -2.9v.
o Front panel switches and buttons all work as expected.
o Internal and external osc. both work as expected.
o Internal "format" switch set to  i.e. comma, cal, no space.
o GPIB works to *set* the time, using Prologix Ethernet adapter.
o Prologix Ethernet adapter attached directly to the clock, no cables.
o Python code to set via GPIB attached below.
o Setting time via GPIB always works, tried many times.
o Reading time has never worked.  All I get is lots of ASCII 
444...
o Reading with Prologix ++read command
o Switches set to 1100010 i.e. Listen, ADDR 2 for normal operation
o Tried switches as 010 i.e. Talk Only, also resulted in continuous 
444...
o Tried very long delays between every GPIB command, no change.
o Tried removing top cover and running a fan to bring entire clock to 21C, no 
change.
o Tried gently reseating the four boards and three socketed PROMS, no change.

Thanks to TVB for hp59309.c sample Windows Prologix USB code.  I based the 
Python Ethernet code on TVB, to read from the clock he sends command C and then 
++read.  When I do that all I get are a zillion 0x34 '4' characters.

Seems strange that all the GPIB commands work.  I tried R reset, P pause T 
resume D day H hour M minute S second manually and they all work just fine.  I 
have never been able to read anything reasonable though.

As to the Prologix Ethernet adapter, I believe it is working OK electrically as 
I have been using it for weeks at a time reading PPS time intervals from a 
trusty HP 5334B counter, the adapter has read hundreds of thousands times from 
the 5334B.

Is there a trick to using the Prologix to read from the 59309A?

I did notice that the 59309A has at least one trick - in TVB's code where he 
reads the Prologix settings and only writes them if they need to be changed, 
that is actually required(!).  Just writing them every time seems to put the 
adapter into a strange state.

Page 4-2 of the 59309A manual seems to imply that the "Output State Machine" generates 
the GPIB output messages, using input from the "Data Memory".  AFAICT, those two 
functional blocks are the only ones that are not working for me.

I think A4U18 ROM is OK as it handles GPIB command decoding and R P T D H M S 
commands all work.

A5U15 appears to do the ASCII encoding for SP, CR, LF, ", : so it may or may 
not be OK.

A5U2 is described as "STATE MACHINE ROM (A5U2). This 4K ROM controls the operation 
of the circuits that develop the talk output of the 59309A."  Has anyone experienced 
failure of this ROM, and do the symptoms match what I'm seeing?

This is a lovely clock, and while I can't actually think of a reason to *need* 
the GPIB time output, I'd still like to fix it.

Cheers,

Bob Marinelli






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I have two of these clock both working, however I have never tried to 
read one with anything like a Prologix adapter I have only used mine 
with HP computer of a similar vintage, however as long as the adapter 
adheres to the handshake timing it should be ok.  I was going to say 
that the -2 seemed excessively high, but I just checked one of mine and 
it is -3V and works fine.  Since it display fine my guess would be that 
the problem area would be at the right end of sheet  2 of the A5 board.  
Yes it is possible for ROMs to go bad, but I have not experienced it 
personally.   Since your adapter is reading something that would suggest 
it is handshaking on the GPIB bus, but the fact that it seems to run 
away might suggest that the send sequence does not terminate correctly, 
in the mode you say you have it set for it should send a string of 18 
characters including the terminating CR LF and then stop, however in 
talk only mode there will likely not be a big break between strings.


 If you set it to talk always you should see the RAM addresses cycling 
and on the input side it should alternate between addresses coming from 
the A4 side and addresses coming from the state machine ROM.  If you had 
a logic analyzer you could monitor the inputs and outputs of the RAM as 
well as the addresses as it cycles through loading and reading out the 
addresses.  On page  5-9 there is a table of the state machine ROM 
contents note addresses are in octal, you could remove U1 and U3 and 
then supply your own TTL level addresses to the ROM to see if you get 
the correct bits out or it A7 is 

[time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Bob]

I'd like to ask the HP 59309A owners on time-nuts if the following symptoms 
sound familiar, and if so, what would the fix be?

o New-to-me HP 59309A clock.
o Late build, 1985 date code on many parts.
o I replaced the big 1900 uF electrolytic before plugging it in.
o Visual inspection very clean, no corrosion, no battery.
o 12v reads 13.1v, 5v reads 5.3v, -2v reads -2.9v.
o Front panel switches and buttons all work as expected.
o Internal and external osc. both work as expected.
o Internal "format" switch set to  i.e. comma, cal, no space.
o GPIB works to *set* the time, using Prologix Ethernet adapter.
o Prologix Ethernet adapter attached directly to the clock, no cables.
o Python code to set via GPIB attached below.
o Setting time via GPIB always works, tried many times.
o Reading time has never worked.  All I get is lots of ASCII 
444...
o Reading with Prologix ++read command
o Switches set to 1100010 i.e. Listen, ADDR 2 for normal operation
o Tried switches as 010 i.e. Talk Only, also resulted in continuous 
444...
o Tried very long delays between every GPIB command, no change.
o Tried removing top cover and running a fan to bring entire clock to 21C, no 
change.
o Tried gently reseating the four boards and three socketed PROMS, no change.

Thanks to TVB for hp59309.c sample Windows Prologix USB code.  I based the 
Python Ethernet code on TVB, to read from the clock he sends command C and then 
++read.  When I do that all I get are a zillion 0x34 '4' characters.

Seems strange that all the GPIB commands work.  I tried R reset, P pause T 
resume D day H hour M minute S second manually and they all work just fine.  I 
have never been able to read anything reasonable though.

As to the Prologix Ethernet adapter, I believe it is working OK electrically as 
I have been using it for weeks at a time reading PPS time intervals from a 
trusty HP 5334B counter, the adapter has read hundreds of thousands times from 
the 5334B.

Is there a trick to using the Prologix to read from the 59309A?

I did notice that the 59309A has at least one trick - in TVB's code where he 
reads the Prologix settings and only writes them if they need to be changed, 
that is actually required(!).  Just writing them every time seems to put the 
adapter into a strange state.

Page 4-2 of the 59309A manual seems to imply that the "Output State Machine" 
generates the GPIB output messages, using input from the "Data Memory".  
AFAICT, those two functional blocks are the only ones that are not working for 
me.

I think A4U18 ROM is OK as it handles GPIB command decoding and R P T D H M S 
commands all work.

A5U15 appears to do the ASCII encoding for SP, CR, LF, ", : so it may or may 
not be OK.

A5U2 is described as "STATE MACHINE ROM (A5U2). This 4K ROM controls the 
operation of the circuits that develop the talk output of the 59309A."  Has 
anyone experienced failure of this ROM, and do the symptoms match what I'm 
seeing?

This is a lovely clock, and while I can't actually think of a reason to *need* 
the GPIB time output, I'd still like to fix it.

Cheers,

Bob Marinelli

#!/usr/bin/python
# Initialize HP 59309A GPIB clock to local time
# Thanks to TVB for http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/hp59309a.c
# For UTC, use datetime.utcnow instead of datetime.now

import datetime, socket, string, sys, time

# IP address of Prologix Controller 
host = "192.168.20.7"

# GPIB address of HP 59309A clock
addr = "2"

# Read one line from Prologix
def gpib_read(s):
  buf = ""
  while (1):
c = s.recv(1)
if not c:
  print "Connection closed"
  sys.exit(1)
if c == '\n':
  return buf
if c != '\r':
  buf = buf+c

# Send one command and EOL to Prologix
def gpib_send(s, cmd):
  s.send(cmd+"\n")

# Send one GPIB command and return reply
def gpib_query(s, cmd):
  gpib_send(s, cmd)
  gpib_send(s, "++read")
  return gpib_read(s)

# Send Prologix command and return reply
def prologix_query(s, cmd):
  gpib_send(s, cmd)
  return gpib_read(s)

prologix_cfg = [
  ("++savecfg", "0"),# do not update eeprom
  ("++mode","1"),# device=0 controller=1
  ("++auto","0"),# automatic read-after-write
  ("++eoi", "0"),# disable EOI
  ("++eos", "3"),# 0=CR+LF 1=CR 2=LF 3=none
  ("++read_tmo_ms", "1000"), # set read timeout (milliseconds)
  ("++addr",addr)# user-supplied gpib address
] 

# Initialize Prologix, only change as needed
def prologix_init(s):
  for cmd, val in prologix_cfg:
old = prologix_query(s, cmd)
if old != val:
  gpib_send(s, cmd + " " + val)

# Quiesce Prologix
def prologix_done(s):
  gpib_send(s, "++loc")
  gpib_send(s, "++mode 0")

if __name__ == "__main__":
  s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
  s.settimeout(2)
 
  # Connect to Prologix on port 1234
  try :
s.connect((host, 1234))
  except :
print "Unable to connect to", host
sys.exit(1)

  # Confirm we are talking to